[Superheidi]

hello. I'm new.

I have been on Cymbalta for about 2 years, am now up to 90 mg a day. I haven't had any negative side effects, save for the first week, and in general just take my happy pills every day like I am told.

Now, this week, I forgot to mail-order my prescription on the right date. This means I was going to be out of Cymbalta for two days. 'no biggie', I thought. two days isn't a big deal.

Boy was I wrong. I seriously thought I had the flu, at first. Then things got worse. And Worse. After only 24 hours. And they got worse. I started shaking, sweating. I thought i had a temperature. I didn't. I couldn't concentrate. My head 'zapped'. I felt like crying. I felt like a heroin addict who needs a fix. I desperately drove to the nearest Kaiser facility (I have kaiser insurance) and begged them to give me a few pills. I wanted those pills so bad. Like, the way a smoker WANTS a cigarette. Not in a rational way, in a weird crazy way. The minute I got my hands on the pills I popped them. Within an hour I felt better. I'm still recovering, not 100 percent (this was last night) but much better.

I'm shocked. Then I started thinking.

If heroin and cocaine work on creating MORE serotonin and norepinephrine, and dopamine, and our brains absorb it, and Cymbalta opens our receptors so our brains absorb more serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine - then essentially they do the same things. They are addictive - just in different ways. When my brain stops getting the Cymbalta, the receptors close, making it impossible to absorb the necessary dopamine I need to maintain a normal system. Things get upset. They start sweating and begging for dopamine.

How is this any different than heroin? except that heroin rots your teeth.

But do we really know what the long-term effects of SSRI's are on brain chemistry? on our livers? our serotonin receptors? I mean, will my receptors be OK even after I go off?

I'm terrified. I'm also scared to ever miss a dosage again. I'm scared of trying to go off the pills and falling into a terrible depression while experiencing withdrawal effects.

I feel like my psychiatrists willingly put me on something, and now I have to find the money, either through insurance or otherwise, every month for the rest of my life to buy my drugs, or face the withdrawal symptoms.

How is this legal? How are any prescription medical drugs that act so similarly to street drugs LEGAL on any level?

Just wanted to vent my frustration and exasperation to people who could understand what I'm talking about. No one else I know is on the drug or quite believes how bad my symptoms were yesterday.

Thanks for listening - did anyone else discover withdrawal by a similar accident?

[Junior]

Hi Superheidi

Welcome to the forum.

All of what you describe HAS happened to others. You are not alone! Also, as you correctly pointed out, withdrawal can (and does) happen with ALL modern anti-depressants.

Just briefly: I was on Aropax (Paxil) for over 10 years. I have Major Depressive Disorder and Generalised Anxiety Disorder and for me it was a wonder drug, with minimal side effects. I also found that I could vary the dose and learned how to recognise when / if I need to increase or decrease the dose. Until it starting losing its effectiveness....
I then switched to Lexapro 10mg which was good at first but wasn't so good when I upped the dose (another story) to 20mg. I went from being constantly restless, although I could sit still, to having concentration probs, poor short-term memory, lowered mood, insomnia, and an urge to slit to my wrists. I hadn't been depressed when I went ON it and thankfully was aware that these drugs can bring on suicidal ideation/ urges (I have a degree in psychology). I weaned off that.. and sought the advice of a psychiatrist. He put me straight on to 60mg of Cymbalta which I presumed was a starting dose. The nausea subsided after only a day but I had ongoing GI probs -including flatulence and constipation. When it started disrupting my sleep pattern I knew I had to come off it. I figured that since I'd been on a starting dose and only been taking it for 19 days that I would have no trouble coming off it, so I simply stopped taking it. BAD MOVE. With severe upper abdo pain, no appetite and continued insomnia... well, that's when I found this place.

For the record, I'm now back on Paxil and stabilising at 40mg, the dose I was on earlier this year. I'm yet to decide exactly what I'm going to do and I'm seeking advice from a psychiatrist who is also a psychologist. My feeling is that I will eventually come off the Paxil but I'm not sure when.

To get back to what you were saying about neurotransmitters, neurons and receptors... By George You've Got It!!! Doctors call coming off a/ds "discontinuation syndrome' believing that people should only be symptomatic for 2-4 weeks after stopping them. It is also argued that people cannot get addicted since the word addiction applies to people who crave the substance and desperately seek it out - think heroin and cigarettes, for example, whereas those trying to get off a/ds WANT to stop them but their bodies won't let them. Talk about semantics! The truth is that it can take several months to 2 years (more in some cases) for the affected receptors to function normally again and for the brain to regain its natural equilibrium. While drugs like Cymbalta and Effexor only alter serotonin and norepinephrine, other neurotransmitters change their levels too so that the brain stays in balance. I hope that makes sense!

In terms of withdrawal: if you want to come off Cymbalta, you CAN! It's just that you need to taper slowly. I understand that pharmaceutical companies themselves (I haven't read this myself but have read it at another forum) recommend 10% drops. So, if you were on 90mg, you would drop to 91, then to 82 and so on. Some people need to go slower. The way to do it, so I've heard, is to open the capsules and count the beads, but I'll leave that for someone else to explain since I didn't do it that way. Another method that many find helpful is to take Prozac during withdrawal (I know that sounds weird) to ease the withdrawal process. Prozac only alters serotonin so it effectively allows you to withdraw from norepinephrine stimulation first. Prozac has a longer half-life than other SSRIs and is said to be one of the easiest to get off.

Hmm..that wasn't very brief, was it? =D
Junior

[nursedeborah]

superheidi,
Welcome to the form! Oh I know that story only to well, and you really "Got It"!!!
junior was right on on everything she said to you, and also about the Prozac. I
did add it right away 20 mg, and then 2 weeks later the doc had me go to 40mg.

It has now been 33 days on the Prozac, not the full dose of 40 mg yet, and it did
help some, but has even helped more now! So I would tell anyone to add it to their
withdrawl process.

Yes I too had that happen to me a couple of times, but by then I was to far gone
on this drug to put two and two together! I had missed doses before, and would
get this awful clangging in my head, or once I forgot to take it for like 4-5 days,
and I just wen down, in bed, and could not move at all. Then I saw it had fallen
out of my bag, took the drug, and the clangging stopped right away, and after a
few days I was able to finally get up again. I still was like a Zombie, but I was at
least able to change the channel on the TV!


This is the most deadly drug I have ever know. I am a recovered addict, so I know
only to well what it's like to have to kick dope, that was easy, plus it didn't take as
long, and you can be given some detox meds to help with the awful withdrawls.

It's almost like we all need to be give the same to help us get off of this!!

Keep reading lots of post, and asking questions, also kepp us posted as to where
you are, and what your doing.

Hang in there it does get better, we are not ruined for life!!!

Debbie

[AuntEmmy]

Thank you all for the votes of confidence. I can't possibly have imagined the side effects this would bring. I was totally off for 4 days, but tonight took about 15 beads to hopefully make the effects a little less. I have never used illegal drugs or smoked so I have no addiction to compare it to, but the brain zaps are terrible and I hold my masters degree and could not come up with a simple sentence this evening. The only thing I have to even compare it is when I was on Topamax and had a hard time coming up with words, but never the sweating in 50 degree weather or the shaking, etc.

[Junior]

AuntEmmy, on 21 March 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Thank you all for the votes of confidence. I can't possibly have imagined the side effects this would bring. I was totally off for 4 days, but tonight took about 15 beads to hopefully make the effects a little less. I have never used illegal drugs or smoked so I have no addiction to compare it to, but the brain zaps are terrible and I hold my masters degree and could not come up with a simple sentence this evening. The only thing I have to even compare it is when I was on Topamax and had a hard time coming up with words, but never the sweating in 50 degree weather or the shaking, etc.

Hi Emmy

When you find a dose that stops all the symptoms, it would be wise to stay at that dose for a week or so to let yourself stabilise. After that, the recommendation is to drop at 10% each time, and wait 3-6 weeks between drops.

Best of luck
Junior

[AuntEmmy]

Junior, on 22 March 2010 - 03:08 AM, said:

Hi Emmy

When you find a dose that stops all the symptoms, it would be wise to stay at that dose for a week or so to let yourself stabilise. After that, the recommendation is to drop at 10% each time, and wait 3-6 weeks between drops.

Best of luck
Junior

Thanks Junior, I am just so scared to get back in the cycle again. I took the few beads, but did not feel any better, so I have decided to stay completely off of it. I feel like after 7 days almost cold turkey, I would be caving to the symptoms if I went back on it. I feel like it's coming in waves right now. The morning seems to be better than the afternoon/evenings. I am thankful that I was able to work for a half-day and hope to be able to work a similar schedule this week. Work in the mornings and rest in the afternoons.

Thanks for your help!

Emily

[Junior]

AuntEmmy, on 23 March 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

Thanks Junior, I am just so scared to get back in the cycle again. I took the few beads, but did not feel any better, so I have decided to stay completely off of it. I feel like after 7 days almost cold turkey, I would be caving to the symptoms if I went back on it. I feel like it's coming in waves right now. The morning seems to be better than the afternoon/evenings. I am thankful that I was able to work for a half-day and hope to be able to work a similar schedule this week. Work in the mornings and rest in the afternoons.

Thanks for your help!

Emily

Hi Emily

I can understand why you would not want to go back on Cymbalta but doing so would NOT mean you are 'caving in'. The bottom line is that modern anti-depressants are physically addictive and that it takes time to get off them. Because they chemically change brain function, a gradual weaning process makes it easier for the brain to adjust and gives you quality of life during the process.

I have seen people drop by 0.5mg of paxil each month and still suffer badly - esp at lower doses. Also, if you read through some of the posts here, you will see that many here have found it very tough as well, myself included. SO please don't feel like a failure if you decide to go back on. If you do, it might take a few days to find the right dose for your body now. If 15 beads did nothing, then try more.

I believe going back on it is worth considering.
Oh, and with the not being able to find words.. common in withdrawal. I had trouble for a while after switching a/ds 3 times in 6 months but I'm a LOT better now. It's about the brain healing which it does...in time.

Best of luck, whatever you decide
Junior

[seethelight]

I am so glad I found this website. I've been on Cymbalta for three years and am in the process of weaning off it. I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one with these horrible withdrawl symptoms. I will never, ever, take this again.

[Ms_M]

seethelight, on 12 May 2010 - 04:07 PM, said:

I am so glad I found this website. I've been on Cymbalta for three years and am in the process of weaning off it. I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one with these horrible withdrawl symptoms. I will never, ever, take this again.

You know, I said the exact same thing this morning to my sweetie. I told him unless Cymbalta cures cancer and allows you to live healthy and happy forever - you won't get me within 10 miles of prescription for it.

Good luck with your w/d. This forum is the best thing ever for information.

[Dr. Rob]

You can't imagine how relieved I was to find this forum! I have been taking Cymbalta (60mg) for the past 9 years. My doctor put me on it for depression, and because I am a recovering addict, she told me that this was a safe non-addictive drug. Recently, I was diagnosed with ADHD, and the doctor put me on Vyvanse. I have been thinking for a long time about stopping the Cymbalta because I just don't feel I need it anymore. This doctor agreed and said that when I started the Vyvanse (I have been taking it for 6 days)that I could stop taking the Cymbalta because the ADHD meds would have the same affect. He gave me five 10mg pills of Cymbalta to wean me off (which I found interesting since this is a "safe, non-addictive drug"). I haven't had any Cymbalta for 2 days, and I feel like I have the flu x 10! I ache terribly, and it even hurts to touch my skin! I never dreamed it was from Cymbalta withdrawal -- I just figured the symptoms were bad effects of Vyvanse. Also, I am a college professor, and the past couple of days, I can't even find words to speak half the time that I'm teaching! I really thought I was going crazy from the ADHD meds! I called the doctor and told him my symptoms. He told me to stop the Vyvanse for 5 days to see if the effects were from the ADHD meds or from actually having the flu. I just took a shot in the dark and googled "Cymbalta withdrawal" and found this forum. Thank God! Everything you guys have shared about your withdrawal symptoms apply to me. I just dug back into my old bottle of 60mg Cymbalta and took one. I hate to do that, but I can't handle this sick, achy feeling. And I need to be able to think clearly for final exams this week! I hope it takes away the sick feeling, but now I am back at square one! I will come off of this medication somehow! Trust me, withdrawal symptoms from opiates or even cocaine aren't this bad! Cymbalta is the devil in a bottle! But thank you all for sharing your experiences!

[MaureenV]

Dr. Rob, on 20 May 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

You can't imagine how relieved I was to find this forum! I have been taking Cymbalta (60mg) for the past 9 years. My doctor put me on it for depression, and because I am a recovering addict, she told me that this was a safe non-addictive drug. Recently, I was diagnosed with ADHD, and the doctor put me on Vyvanse. I have been thinking for a long time about stopping the Cymbalta because I just don't feel I need it anymore. This doctor agreed and said that when I started the Vyvanse (I have been taking it for 6 days)that I could stop taking the Cymbalta because the ADHD meds would have the same affect. He gave me five 10mg pills of Cymbalta to wean me off (which I found interesting since this is a "safe, non-addictive drug"). I haven't had any Cymbalta for 2 days, and I feel like I have the flu x 10! I ache terribly, and it even hurts to touch my skin! I never dreamed it was from Cymbalta withdrawal -- I just figured the symptoms were bad effects of Vyvanse. Also, I am a college professor, and the past couple of days, I can't even find words to speak half the time that I'm teaching! I really thought I was going crazy from the ADHD meds! I called the doctor and told him my symptoms. He told me to stop the Vyvanse for 5 days to see if the effects were from the ADHD meds or from actually having the flu. I just took a shot in the dark and googled "Cymbalta withdrawal" and found this forum. Thank God! Everything you guys have shared about your withdrawal symptoms apply to me. I just dug back into my old bottle of 60mg Cymbalta and took one. I hate to do that, but I can't handle this sick, achy feeling. And I need to be able to think clearly for final exams this week! I hope it takes away the sick feeling, but now I am back at square one! I will come off of this medication somehow! Trust me, withdrawal symptoms from opiates or even cocaine aren't this bad! Cymbalta is the devil in a bottle! But thank you all for sharing your experiences!

Hi Dr. Rob,


glad you found us, and yes, everything you mention is more than likely from the Cymbalta. Very difficult when drugs are being swapped around to know what's what.

It's important to recognize the difference though between 'normal' addiction and what Cymbalta does, which as you know, alters our brain chemistry. It's not difficult to get off (unlike truly addictive drugs), you just need to give your brain the opportunity to adjust to its pre-cymbalta state slowly.

Also, lots of people can get off Cymbalta without too much difficulty. The shocking aspect is that Eli Lilly won't do the research necessary to find out how many of us are NOT in that category and to inform doctors accordingly, leaving us poor beggars in the dark, and lucky we're in the internet age where we can find things out for ourselves.

Don't worry about taking the 60mg again - that's the ONLY way to go.

Have a read through lots of posts and you'll find the best way to get off Cymbalta is to wean down slowly. Don't worry if your doctors says it's either not necessary, or that you don't need to go that slowly etc: trust your instincts and listen to those of us who've gone down this path successfully.

When you feel perfectly well again taking the 60mg, you can try reducing the dose a bit. And I mean A BIT. You do this by opening the capsule and removing some of the beads, keeping them for later on when you're on a small dose. (You can buy empty gelatine capsules for this purpose.)

You can also make one capsule last two doses, by (instead of putting the 'cap' back on) stuffing a bit of bread in the end, so you can use the other half later, although the empty capsules are not difficult to buy.


Don't think of it as being back at square one. Think of it as being at the CORRECT starting line!!

And stay in touch here ....


regards, Maureen.

[Dr. Rob]

Maureen,

Thank you for your words of encouragement! And you are correct. There is no psychological craving for me to take Cymbalta as there would be with drugs that bring a "high." But these physical withdrawal symptoms are killer! It's pretty scary when we put our trust in the medical community and end up in this place. But I have read all of the posts and will continue to be in touch here. I am, as you said, trusting the words of those who have walked this path successfully. Thanks, again, for your helpful words.

Rob

[Dr. Rob]

CORRECTION: I just looked at the bottle of 5 pills that I had been given by the doctor to wean myself off. They weren't 10 mg as I thought. They were 30 mg. I still have my old bottle of 60 mg, so I am going to take your advice, Maureen, and split the capsules. No way am I going to suffer through one day on and one day off! By the way, after having no Cymbalta in my system for 2 days, I took the 60 mg capsule around 5 p.m., but I am still feeling lousy and flu-like. How long will it take to feel better after having re-introduced the medication into my system? Thanks!

Rob

[MaureenV]

Dr. Rob, on 20 May 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

CORRECTION: I just looked at the bottle of 5 pills that I had been given by the doctor to wean myself off. They weren't 10 mg as I thought. They were 30 mg. I still have my old bottle of 60 mg, so I am going to take your advice, Maureen, and split the capsules. No way am I going to suffer through one day on and one day off! By the way, after having no Cymbalta in my system for 2 days, I took the 60 mg capsule around 5 p.m., but I am still feeling lousy and flu-like. How long will it take to feel better after having re-introduced the medication into my system? Thanks!

Rob

I'm not sure about the other medications you're taking, of course, and not sure what time it is where you are (it's mid day in Melbourne) but most people find that by the second dose they're o.k.; many find they're o.k. within a matter of hours, so hang in there.

Agreed, definitely don't do the one day on, one day off bizzo, in that regard Cymbalta is no different to illicit drugs in that all you're doing is feeding your brain's addiction one day, then making it withdraw the next.

Depending on how many 60mg you have left, it may be necessary to get another prescription filled.

All I can suggest at this stage is to keep taking the 60mg every 24 hours until you feel the way you did before.

That's assuming none of the other changes are contributing to the way you feel, which of course is quite likely.

regards, Maureen.

[CymHaltya]

AuntEmmy, on 21 March 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Thank you all for the votes of confidence. I can't possibly have imagined the side effects this would bring. I was totally off for 4 days, but tonight took about 15 beads to hopefully make the effects a little less. I have never used illegal drugs or smoked so I have no addiction to compare it to, but the brain zaps are terrible and I hold my masters degree and could not come up with a simple sentence this evening. The only thing I have to even compare it is when I was on Topamax and had a hard time coming up with words, but never the sweating in 50 degree weather or the shaking, etc.

Hi Aunt Emmy - cymblata's half-life is about 12 hours - when my prescription ran out, the pharmacy gave me a couple of 60mg capsules since we were waiting for the doctor to issue a weaning prescription, which never came. i took the two caps over a period of a week in a an effort to wean; the w/d symptoms start up pretty quickly, because of the short half-life, the 2nd day after taking a cap.

i was effectively stopping and starting the w/d process each time i took one of the caps since there was about three days in between each one. bad move. the w/d is nasty enough without restarting it twice.

i've heard different responses about weaning versus cold turkey but i'm certain that taking a few beads or a cap every few days with breaks in between isn't a good idea - probably better to plan a multi-week "discontinuation" with a deliberate decrease in the amount that you take, ideally under the supervision of an empathic and knowledgeable physician.

The stuff is evil. Whatever route you choose, hang in and know that a tomorrow will come when you begin to feel better.

Nutritional supplements can help....Omega 3 & 6, therapeutic doses of free form amino acids to provide the body with building blocks so it can produce serotonin and norepinephrine - tyrosine is a precursor for norepinephrine (found in meats, eggs, dairy) and tryptophan is a precursor for serotonin (eggs, meat/poultry, spirulina) - tryptophan typically requires a prescription, it was banned when a manufacturer's process was contaminated...interestingly the FDA banned it four days before Newsweek ran a feature article on another of Eli Lilly's creations, Prozac, but i digress. Be aware that 5HTP is NOT the same as tryptophan and while it does convert to serotonin, it does so in the liver and the resulting serotonin creates heart risks in the system and, very little makes it to the brain. Also helpful, therapeutic dosages of B vitamins, particularly B6 and B12, C (ester) to help with metabolizing the tyrosine - and, minerals - warm baths with mineral salts .

yes, and hang in.

[MoniqueKim]

Quote

... I started shaking, sweating. I thought i had a temperature. I didn't. I couldn't concentrate. My head 'zapped'. I felt like crying. I felt like a heroin addict who needs a fix. I desperately drove to the nearest Kaiser facility (I have kaiser insurance) and begged them to give me a few pills. I wanted those pills so bad. Like, the way a smoker WANTS a cigarette. Not in a rational way, in a weird crazy way. The minute I got my hands on the pills I popped them. Within an hour I felt better ...

Yep, I feel you on this one ... the desperation is unreal.

I am about to go back and get my prescription renewed for Cymbalta and I am not at all excited about it. :/