[chrism23]

Hey all,

I hope this is not inappropriate but Ms. Amber started a withdrawal thread, there have been a number of responses including mine, and she has not reposted or responded. In addition I have received a number of emails, so people are actually reading and thinking about this thread.

So I propose we continue the thread under a new more relevant topic title.

That said. Summing up, I was on 60 mgs of cymbalta for 2 years, started tapering to 30 mgs 3 weeks ago, felt horrible taperiing-major complaints were GI symptoms which caused me to want stop in the first place. Went cold turkey last Friday Jan 29th. Felt really good to 2 days and then went off the cliff. Now a week later the GI symptoms are profound, 3 different sets of problems, the first is basic IBS-irritable bowel syndrome alternating between constipation and diarrhea with frequent nausea and cramping. I just had to leave a yoga class half way through feeling dizzy as if I was going to throw up. There is no sense of being delicate here. The abdominal pain is two fold, first a sensation between my navel and sternum as if someone is threading barbed wire through my colon. The second, beneath the rib cage on both flanks, a constant dull pain.

Today the sadness and mind games began, the feeling that there is something very wrong, like I have colon or pancreatic cancer. I have had cancer twice so I know the feeling but I also know that my depression manifests itself psychosomatically and this is probably my mind playing tricks on me.

So that is where I am. The only two things I have found relief from are benzo's- I am using alprazolam, generic Xanax, all I can use because of my script is limited to .5 mgs twice a day. I take it about 5 in the afternoon and then at bed time. Xanax has the shortest half life of any benzo, about 4-6 hours but it is the fastest acting. If you have any say in the matter get your doctor to give you valium (generic -diazapam) it has the longest half life, 12 hours, and should get you through the night. And for me, meditation focused on breathing helps immensely, but that is not a skill you can pick up right away. File it under things to do for your mental health later.

Someone in the Amber thread mentioned they went cold turkey off of Xanax. This is a HUGE potentially deadly mistake. There are only two withdrawals that can kill you, benzos and alcohol. Benzo withdrawal is worse than heroin or other opiates. So don't do that, please. (disclosure-I was a medical professional, not an MD but Director of Substance Abuse for a major American city and was a nationally recognized figure on drug policy-no ego just who I was).

The other thing to keep in mind here is that everyone's reaction to anti-depressants-both starting and stopping, is totally idiosyncratic, totally relative, no two people are alike. So if someone here is feeling great after 10 days, it only provides some hope, others may take months. Sorry. But that is the way it is. We are all experiencing one of our society's deep dark secrets. People, and MD's, regard AD's almost like aspirin. They receive and write millions of scripts a year. We are bearing witness to the fact that these are not benign drugs, but powerful mind and bodily altering substances that must be dealt with seriously and with great respect.

I have responded privately to a few emails and will do so if I can be of help.

I wish you all well and safe passage.

[pamela]

Chris-

You should post more often. You seem like you have got a great handle on the Psychotropic Drug 'scene'. I have been on AD's for 9 years now and have taken nearly all of the latest and greatest ones. My son has Asperberger's and takes meds to help control his mood and outbursts for years now as well. To say that we have put food on many drug companies tables would be an understatement.

Are you feeling better now? Are you completely off?

All my best,
Pam

[chrism23]

Pamela,

Thank you. I have been on and off AD's since 1995, god, 16 years already. I am just starting to figure them out. I will have more to say about there use as this thread goes on.

Back to the thread.

Day 8.

I have been completely off cymbalta now for 8 days. The withdrawal symptoms are coming and going. I am trying to remain active as possible. I was up this morning at 8:00 AM to play tennis, singles. In an absolutely twisted bit of karma, my former, and first psychiatrist was playing on the court next to me. I haven's seen him professionally in over 10 years, running into this morning was just too zen. I resisted the temptation to talk shop with him.

I was able to play a set, about an hour, before the symptoms kicked in. The GI cramping started, the nausea started to get nasty. And yes, a new one which I am wrestling with at the moment and why this will be brief. An intense headache came on, almost migraine like. I told my friends with whom I were playing afterwards what was going on, they wanted to play a set of doubles, and I begged off saying I was hallucinating. Which was true, I was getting those blurred color whirls migraine sufferers complain about. This is so much fun.

I don't know if this helps at all, but in choosing to stop I knew the hell that was coming. Somehow, and this I attribute to my yogic training, I am almost able to step outside myself and be a dispassionate observer. I am almost able to surf the pain, the symptoms. This was my choice. I have chosen to be wretched and from that I derive some strength and solace.

I do look forward to being able to write here that I am well. The symptoms have gone. That I am able to think and clearly again. I don't know whether that is going to be next week or 3 months from now. It is what it is.

shanti ( this means peace in Sanskrit)

[chrism23]

Day Nine The Adventures Continue.

Or-is the light at the end of the tunnel an oncoming train. Today feels a little better. I am trying not to get overly encouraged. But my energy level is picking up, some of the brain fog seems to be wearing off, some clarity of thought is returning, The whole list of Gastro-Intestinal symptoms continue and seem level. What is new today is a marked increase in generalized anxiety, and a feeling of deep, profound sadness that is filtering in an out. Not constant. A couple of good things have happened today, which should have made me smile, and instead I ended up crying. I hope this doesn't get any worse. Feedback on this, if any of you have gone through the sadness, would be helpful.

I don't know about your insurance plans, I am very fortunate to have one of those retired government employee plans that pay for just about everything with no hassles. I say this because one of the main reasons I stopped Cymbalta was because of the GI side effects, the cramping and nausea etc. When I stopped I scheduled an appointment with my GI doc for about 6 weeks out, knowing if I did so immediately he would tell me to cease any drugs that may be causing the problem-in my case cymbalta and lipitor, to stop taking any NSAIDs like ibuprofen or aspirin, and above all to stop drinking alcohol. This morning, still with the symptoms, and worried it might be something else, I have had cancer twice and am realistically gun shy, I called my primary care doc to schedule an app't for tomorrow. With him, naturally I don't see him but his Physician's Assistant, what I plan on doing is to get her to order me an MRI or CT scan. This again is to save time with the GI specialist, who would probably order one, and for my peace of mind, that I don't gallstones or diverticulitis on top of the cymbalta withdrawal symptoms. I also see a colonoscopy in my future. More fun.

I guess I post this as a helpful warning. In the midst of the hell of cymabalta withdrawal, I perceive a tendency among many of us to attribute every lousy thing we are feeling to the drug's effects. Just be careful, there may be other stuff going on as well.

So tomorrow I enter the bowels of the medical system (pun intended) and start to get MRI'ed blood tested, poked and prodded. God I hate it, but once being part of the system, I am fortunate enough to be able to play it, to cut down on time and frustration.

So that's day 9. I hope all you i similar situations are coping. Be Well.

[chrism23]

Day 10- The Brain in Your Belly

I have to start remembering to save things I read. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal last week titled The Brain in Your Belly. It was about research now showing that there is alot of tissue comprised of brain like cells in your colon, and its chemistry mimic that of brain cells-with serotonin, dopamine, all the usual brain chemicals, acting like they do in your brain, but instead in your belly. This just seems to give more credence to the connection between AD's and those of us experiencing GI problems.

The other reason I mention this, and why I think it is important, is I visited my MD yesterday to discuss my situation, talk about the gut or GI pain I was experiencing and plot a course of action. She agreed with what I had done so far, eliminating any drugs that could be causing the symptoms, especially the Cymbalta. She grimaced though when I said I was now in Day 10 of semi-cold turkey, naturally she said I should have tapered more slowly, but she knows I have no patience so she just shrugged. She ordered another battery of blood tests, including one for celiac disease, which I think is a long shot. But most importantly, she ordered a CT scan for me, which I have scheduled on Friday. That will be key, and give me much peace of mind, that I am not dealing with soft tissue disease like stomach or liver cancer.

Then I have to wait 2 more weeks for an appointment with a GI specialist, who will surely order a colonoscopy if my symptoms are continuing.

These tests will exhaust all the medical testing that can be done,

If all show up negative, then I can be somewhat certain, that its the residual effects of the cymbalta causing the problem. Hopefully this will be moot because the cymbalta withdrawal symptoms will have stopped by then. My doctor did say, and this is also important to note, that from her experience with patients withdrawing I could look forward to about 2 months of symptoms.

But again, returning to the most critical point I want to make, and what should be focal to all discussions on this board, is that everyone's reactions to all AD's, including Cymbalta, is totally idiosyncratic and relative, both in the benefits and negative side effects, both in use and stopping.


I felt good yesterday, feeling that I was making some progress in managing what is happening. I played the best tennis I had in about 5 years, since I started the cymbalta, in the afternoon. I will be writing about tardive dyskinesia, the effects of cymbalta on coordination and motor skills in the future. I think I have discovered something very interesting. I have long felt that cymbalta had a negative effect on my coordination and balance. We'll see.

All that said ( I am writing this the following morning) I woke up at about 3:30 AM with my gut cramping and tied in knots again. This is going to be a bad day I fear.

be well

[chrism23]

Day 10 A Buzz is Beginning

Something new today. I am amped up, buzzy, a little anxious, as if I had taken a small dose of some amphetamine, like I am speeding. I wonder if anyone has run into this before, at what stage of the withdrawal, and how long it lasted. This I don't like.

On the positive side, the cramping and GI issues are a little better. But I even felt a wave of nausea hit me in yoga class this morning, I have cut back the level and intensity of my practice, this was in a very basic, gentle class. I still clearly know I can't do the higher level vinyasa classes I usually do,more like yoga aerobics, in a 100 degree room, without getting totally sick, and either passing out or leaving after 30 minutes, which is what happened the last 2 times I tried.

This will be brief today. I have my CT scan tomorrow. Then I will start have a lot more certainty about whether what I am experiencing is my flesh or the effects of the withdrawal.

[kduh4]

hey there, i am new to all this but i stopped cold turkey and am on day 5. so far ur post has been the only one i feel like i can relate to in some ways.. i did want to say that i have been on 90mg for the past 2 years. my withdrawals started with the brain zaps and then a whole list of everything else... but from day 2 i had and still have the "buzz" u are talking about- i think. i wake up each day with a massive headache. by 10am nausea sets in and i usually vomit off and on until about 2pm. around the same time that begins, it is also like i have all this pent up energy that NEEDS to get out.... i find myself trying to stay active, but being at home, that means cleaning the house. the problem is i have toooo much energy to actually complete anything. i could start laundry or dishes but feel like it is not fast paced enough, so i move on to other chores. what i realize now, is that all i seem to accomplish is doing a ton of pacing in my house! i have started to get outside and go for a long fast walk and that helps a bit, but i have never experienced anything like this buzz before. my job is "at home", i can't seem to get that job done. i feel like i shouldn't be complaining about it because so many are going through a lot worse, but if u or anyone else comes up with something that helps release the energy while i can still do my job, i would really appreciate it! and to just finish with my day, i end up crashing by 8pm and try to get to sleep. i have terrible nightmares, sweats (which i actually have all day, just worse at night), and insomnia. my doc and pharmacist has been trying to convince me to wean properly but i feel as though i am too far in to turn back. i can say that realizing the pattern in my days and symptoms has helped me deal with them better. i am also seeking more holistic remedies. a type of massage to help the body detox- either tonight or tomorrow, plus herbal supplements like ginger for the nausea.... day 5 and feeling strong! just have to keep strong minded that this is what u really want/ don't waiver and i believe i will make it through... the not knowing when it will end is the biggest challenge for me at this point. it is hard to convince urself u will be over this soon when u really have no idea if it will be tomorrow or a few months! if interested, i could let u know about other herbal remedies my massage therapist recommends? also can let u know what type of massage was actually given to me and if/what the results are. well, thanks and please keep posting- it is helping me! good luck!

[chrism23]

@KDUH 4

Thanks for joining in. Just a couple of comments to you before my update. I don't think massage will help. I regularly see a massage therapist because I beat the shit out of my body. Seeing her right now I feel wouldn't help that much. I can't imagine going cold turkey from 90 mgs. Your side effects, while similar, are much more intense than mine, no doubt because I did a short taper from 60 and then cold turkied from 30. You must be going through hell. I would never tell anyone to cold turkey from 90 mgs. But I get the sense that you know what you you got yourself in for and given the circumstance you are doing and will be able to tough it out and see it through. You have 5 days in, I think only a few days more and your are through the worse, so yeah, go for it. I think you are really smart in trying to find something holistically to quell the nausea. Not really my area of expertise, so I would, I think we all would, be interested if you find something that works. I would keep walking too, walking seems to be good for just about everything. Be strong, be well. That said.

Day 11 The Buzz Continues

My withdrawal right now is more about the buzz, the meth like speeding sensation, that I am trying to ride, than the Gi issues that I was at first most concerned about. Like KDUH4 above, I am manically trying to do things, I have about 25 different things going on right now, learning new software, I just bought an IPHONE and am trying to figure it out. I have been emailing everyone on my lists The real crazy stuff I will spare you. But yea. The buzz is for real. I do have a script for Xanax and taking on before bed is astonishingly helpful. So another piece of advice I think that would apply to nearly everyone. Don't do this, stop cold turkey, without a script for a benzo, again I recommend valium (diazapam) rather than xanax because it lasts longer but I was forced to go with what I had.

The manic energy and resulting action has a real shallow and fleeting nature. I am not really accomplishing anything because it is hard to focus and follow through, I am bouncing from one project to another.

What has me most curious about this is whether this is my mind rebooting. About whether the cymbalta so far damped down my energy, my psychic functioning, so numbed me, that it is causing my mind returning to "normal", to be so scary, so difficult. The buzz is a bitch folks. For those of you who have had panic attacks, which to me are the scariest things in the world, you totally lose control and feel you are going completely insane, if you are prone to panic attacks then I would never do this without a large vial of benzos close at hand. The buzz is like a low level panic attack.

On other issues, I had a CT scan this morning and will get the results in a couple of days. I am hoping that its the cymbalta withdrawal causing all my GI problems and not something more sinister.

I really need to go work and on managing the buzz. This is exactly what I was talking about above and your are now seeing it first hand, I can't stay focused. I have to go do something else.

[chrism23]

Day 12-This is really weird


This you are going to find amusing. Please forgive me in advance if you think I inject ego into these posts. I am who I am, and to make a point sometimes I will have to say things that are immodest.

I went back on AD's about 5 years ago after a bout of prostate cancer. Having prostate cancer will depress the hell out of anyone. At the time this hit, I had just retired early, at age 46. I was a a highly ranked tennis player in my youth and I decided I wanted to go back and play tournament tennis. To successfully play at that level is almost a full time job. You have to be extremely fit, train like a madman. and be totally focused. Within a couple of years I was ranked #6 in New England in Men's 45 singles, and had racked up a couple of wins over guys with top 50 national rankings. My goal was to get in the top 10 nationally.

Then the cancer hit, then the recurrence of the depression. In coming back from the cancer I had two more injuries in successive years that required surgery. So I was mostly out of commission for nearly 4 years. When I started my latest comeback I was on the cymbalta. I got out on the court to work with my coach and found, to my utter amazement, that I could barely hit a forehand anymore. My coach was totally perplexed. This was more than the yips, the shot, which was my strength, just vanished. The forehand I relearned was a pale echo of my previous shot. A slice rather than a big top spin bomb.

I also noticed in yoga I couldn't do balance poses any more. I would set up next to a wall in every class because I kept tipping over. This at the time I attributed to having one too many concussions-I had one day, hit my head hard, knocked myself out and had a major concussion, making 6 or 7 over the years.

But the more I thought about this the less sense it made. I have been playing tennis for 50 years. You don't just lose a shot. Its like forgetting how to ride a bike when you have ridden in the Tour de France. It just doesn't happen.

So a month ago, I said to my coach, that I was going off the drug, and I bet him that my old forehand would come back. Guess what. This week, after stopping the cymbalta, my forehand is back. I am once again beating the hell out of the ball.

I wish I could write this up for a medical journal. Strange but true.

The rub here, and again my caveat on all side effects being relative, Cymbalta, in my case, caused a severe diminishment of neuro-motor skills. I went from being an elite athlete to being a barely coordinated klutz. It only took me 2 years to figure this out. File under things your doctor doesn't tell you.

[chrism23]

Day 14 a question for pros

A won't comment much today. Except to say I feel horrible. I made a huge mistake of dgoing out to dinner Saturday and killing a couple of bottles of wine and waking up @ 6:00 the next morning to play tennis at 8:00 AM. I lost 13 games in a row to a guy I beat 6-0, 6-1 pre withdrawal.

I went home, spent the rest of the day double over in bed, pleading mercy.

OK tech question. Two parts. I would like to hear for anyone who has done a cold turkey withdrawal, and experienced GI symptoms-cramping IBS etc, as to how long those symptoms lasted. Can anyone beat my 2 weeks. My doc did say this can go on for up to two months but I'd like so hear from someone who has been there. I have been sharing a lot and am asking a little something in return.

Second, this is highly technical and probably can only be answered by an MD who is reading the group. My blood work came back from the lab and the only thing outside of normal range is my Alanine Transaminase (ALT) levels which spiked 42% from 40 to 57 in two months-the period I have been tapering and stopping the cymbala All the other liver enzyme tests are in normal range. 40 is the outside of the normal range for ALT. I have read in my places that AD's effect liver enzymes. Has anyone ever encountered anything like this.

Needless to say spiking a liver function test like that has me scared shitless that I may be dealing with liver cancer or cirrhosis. I might or might not find out this afternoon when I can get a hold of my CT results/

TIA for any info.

[Redbeard007]

chrism23, on 14 February 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

Day 14 a question for pros

A won't comment much today. Except to say I feel horrible. I made a huge mistake of dgoing out to dinner Saturday and killing a couple of bottles of wine and waking up @ 6:00 the next morning to play tennis at 8:00 AM. I lost 13 games in a row to a guy I beat 6-0, 6-1 pre withdrawal.

I went home, spent the rest of the day double over in bed, pleading mercy.

OK tech question. Two parts. I would like to hear for anyone who has done a cold turkey withdrawal, and experienced GI symptoms-cramping IBS etc, as to how long those symptoms lasted. Can anyone beat my 2 weeks. My doc did say this can go on for up to two months but I'd like so hear from someone who has been there. I have been sharing a lot and am asking a little something in return.

Second, this is highly technical and probably can only be answered by an MD who is reading the group. My blood work came back from the lab and the only thing outside of normal range is my Alanine Transaminase (ALT) levels which spiked 42% from 40 to 57 in two months-the period I have been tapering and stopping the cymbala All the other liver enzyme tests are in normal range. 40 is the outside of the normal range for ALT. I have read in my places that AD's effect liver enzymes. Has anyone ever encountered anything like this.

Needless to say spiking a liver function test like that has me scared shitless that I may be dealing with liver cancer or cirrhosis. I might or might not find out this afternoon when I can get a hold of my CT results/

TIA for any info.

I am certainly not the tennis player you are! I am 56 and still enjoying playing tennis; however, one of the reasons why I am now in the process of getting off the cymbalta wagon is because I am sooooo short-winded when I take cymbalta! So, long story short, I am now on day 8 of cold turkey from cymbalta. Mostly headache symtoms. I took it for about 4 weeks so I guess I can't relate to people who have been on this concoction from Hades too much.

[cookie]

I see that you also developed IBS. I´ve had
IBS is a disorder that interferes with the normal functions of the colon. I´ve also had cramps, and it alternated between constipation and diarrhea.