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Ultra-Conservative Weaning


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#1 thismoment

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:32 PM

This is from Playing With the Odds, Revisited- by Stuart Shipko, M.D. of madinamerica.com. It outlines an extremely conservative weaning program that has yielded "almost no withdrawal related symptoms". This weaning experiment is ongoing and is being used to withdraw from Cymbalta's evil twin Effexor. I calculated this regimen takes about 30 months

 

"In 2012 a then 56-year-old person contacted me wishing to stop taking Effexor (150 mg) after a 14-year exposure.  The older a person is and the longer the drug has been taken, the less likely the person is to successfully taper off the SSRI.  After reading ‘Informed Consent’ and learning about potential difficulties ahead, the patient still wanted to try stopping Effexor.  The patient had run out of medication, at times, in the past and experienced a number of unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.   It was the withdrawal symptoms that convinced the patient that the drug is toxic and that stopping it was essential.  We used the bead tapering strategy, where 5% of the beads from a 150 mg capsule are  removed per month until 75 mg was reached. At 75 mg the tapering schedule was changed to 2.5% per month.  Some months when things were particularly stressful the patient elected not to decrease the dosage. We are at 54 mg and the tapering continues at this time. To date there have been almost no withdrawal related symptoms.  We are optimistic at this point.  This is a good experiment in ultra conservative tapering, and may answer some questions about the value of tapering ultra-slowly in preventing both acute and late onset withdrawal symptoms."

 

There is another long-term tapering regimen that really intrigues me; it's the one where the dosage is reduced by 10% of the current dosage. It starts by reducing the prescribed dosage by 10% for 3-4 weeks depending on how the symptoms go. You may have some symptoms in the first couple of weeks, but they will stabilize. After 3-4 weeks (3 weeks minimum), you reduce the dosage by another 10%, BUT it's 10% of the dosage you have been using for the previous 3 weeks. Therefore, while the length of time between reductions is the same, the dosage drop gets less and less in each step. 

 

After you reach 50% of the original prescribed dosage (about 6 months), you reduce by 10% per week. (That's 10% of the previous week's dosage, extending the time as necessary). This yields baby steps that naturally slows down the reduction in dosage toward the end (which we know is necessary). This regimen takes about 15 months.

 

There seems to be a trend towards longer withdrawal regimens, and if avoiding symptoms is the name of the game (and it is), this seems to be the way to go. But the thought of taking 1-2 years to taper off seems daunting- I get that. But look, if there is a correlation between no symptoms and successful healing of the brain, it's a no-brainer! Surely the torture of acute withdrawal symptoms indicates something is not going smoothly in your brain. And, no symptoms means no anxiety, and no anxiety means less stress and fewer benzodiazepines. 

 

I don't think it's wrong to view withdrawal symptoms as warning flags that something bad and unhealthy is happening in your brain. Therefore the appearance of symptoms must surely mean the rate of reduction is too fast.


#2 fishinghat

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:12 PM

Interesting TM. The 10% every 2 or 3 weeks is the method my dr recommends for Ativan. 10% of CURRENT dosage each time.

#3 FiveNotions

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:39 PM

FH, how's the anxiety doing today?

#4 fishinghat

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

Its better FN. Thanks for asking. At this rate I will be back to normal in a couple days. At that time I am going to return to my previous dose of hydroxyzine and see if the symptoms return. If not then it was just a fluke. If it does come back I will go back up on my hydroxyzine and go back to weaning.

#5 DoneWithCrap

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

This is my third day of weaning  using the 10% method. the first capsule i counted had 300 beads. i removed and reserved 30 then took the remaining 270. Yesterday I didn't have time to count all the beads so I simply removed and retained 30. Today my curiosity got to me because I had a tough day yesterday, and I counted all the beads in 2 caps. I had exactly 320 in both. the generic I got this month is by TEVA. I'm sure i lost a few from the first capsule that I counted because I have akathisia (and I found a few near where I counted the first time), so I will assume that 320 is more accurite. 10% would be 32 beads, but I will stay at removing 30 for the rest of this week. Today has been better than yesterday...no migraine yet :)

 

I have been storing the beads that I remove in an empty Rx bottle. Is that ok for now? Also, what kind of blank gel caps should I use? I found some on line that are intended for powdered vitamins. Do i need slow release gel caps (if they make them).

 

I found an article online that said TEVA recalled 16 lots of this stuff because the gel caps were breaking. I assume it is important not to have the beads released in your stomach, but further down the digestive track. Does anybody know about this?


#6 fishinghat

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:47 PM

Well they are definitely time release beads but whether there are different types of empty capsules is a good question. Your local pharmacist would know that off the top of his head I am sure.

#7 DoneWithCrap

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:04 PM

Thanks fishing hat. I will call tomorrow and ask before I order anything.





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