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Feel Like Crying "uncle!"


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#1 brzghoff

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:53 PM

 

yes, i had a great moment last evening (in "listing the positive events") i keep trying to hold on to that but i am having a rough time.

 

i know, this is long. i don't blame you if it's too boring.

 

thursday was 15 weeks. i've hit a real down cycle. 

 

I stopped the C for good may 15. it was rough for the first two months, all the physical stuff, gastro, lost 20 lbs , neuropathic pain, aching joints and muscles, paresthesia, but worst of all anxiety. not just fear but shear terror. things started getting better at around three months, although there had been a few good days here and there throughout. at about 6 weeks i started going back to my therapist for the first time in two years. it helped a ton. i'd also take a kava kava capsule every now and again, not more than once a week. it works very well. getting better by baby steps. at the13th week i was having a major break through. anxiety went down to near nothing, physically felt well, good spirits. my husband really noticed the change.  

 

throughout i've used benadryl, 25-50 mgs, off and on to help me sleep - originally insomnia was due to anxiety. once the anxiety wasn't a problem, insomnia remained. benadryl evolved into a near nightly ritual. about a week ago i noticed that i was building up a tolerance. i decided to go without. that didn't go well. no sleep. i got up frustrated after laying awake for hours and downed a couple.

 

i checked into l tryptophan. after doing a lot of research i picked some up and took one 500 mg capsule tuesday night. within 20-30 min it kicked in. real mellow, i wasn't able to go to sleep right away, but was very comfortable for an hour before dozing off. slept all night the next day i felt great! wednesday night i took one 500 mg capsule. within 20-30 min i felt hyper, my heart rate went up and boom! anxiety! it was terrible. i was up for several hours and finally took a kava kava just to calm down. i laid awake for hours, but at least i wasn't freaking out. i got maybe 4 hours sleep. yesterday was not a very good day - irritability and anger some anxiety on and off, practicing my belly breathing, mindfulness, other cognitive "tricks". last night i was too scared to take the trypto. i took a kava kava, but that isn't a sleep aid, just subtly calming. i laid there awake. i finally grabbed the hard stuff,  took 1/2 of one of my husband's ambien. of course it worked great. thought the decent sleep would help, but nope. 

 

today i've been upset, frustrated, angry, irritable, anxious and just down right depressed! i haven't felt much of the black hole during this whole journey off the C. today my husband said i am reminding him of what i was like before i ever took meds… 18 years ago! that really shook me up. so is this it? is the grand experiment over? i mean, depression is what started this whole adventure in 1996. do i cry "uncle" to eli lilly?


#2 thismoment

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:32 PM

brzghoff

 

I'm sorry to hear you've hit a dark spot, and also sorry you got sideswiped by your husband's unfortunate remark. Right now you don't need judgement and criticism, you need support. The grand experiment isn't over: support meds for sleep and anxiety are totally appropriate (I could not have made it through withdrawal and the first 6 months of discontinuation without the benzo Ativan standing by!). I also had something to help me sleep when I needed it. Both of these standbys are disintegrating on the shelf now because I no longer need them.

 

The experiment with L-Tryptophan didn't work. That's okay-- forget about it. I'm old school: I'm suspicious of supplements and won't take any. I think they are another crap-shoot. Right now you need something you can count on, both in medications and support personnel.

 

Give it some time, and keep up your dignified self and see what tomorrow brings.

 

Take care.


#3 FiveNotions

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:43 AM

Bryzghoff, you're almost 4 months off ... Congratulations!!

 

And, it's clear that you're exhausted from lack of sleep and anxiety ... it's no wonder you're having a hard time coping ... TM is right ... you need to let yourself use "official" stuff for both of those issues ... your brain/body must have sleep and peace to continue healing ... get a benzo and a sleeping pill ... and use them ....

 

You tried the tryptophan, which worked well for me ... but it didn't work for you ... although you started at such huge doses, I'm not surprised .... I started at just 100 mg ... I think you overdid, in your desperation for a good night sleep ...

 

Now isn't the time for you to be trying different "alternatives" ... you need the real stuff, so call your doctor and make him feel needed ... let him do what docs love to do ... write a couple of Rx's :P


#4 fishinghat

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

TM

    Talking about suspicious of supplements, you will love this. While searching through the local health food stores for malic acid I ran across a brand (sorry don't remember the name) that listed malic acid, magnesium and 3 plants AND in very tiny letters below that it listed tryptophan!! I am telling you the print was so small I am sure many customers would miss it. In addition it did not give the concentration. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.


#5 thismoment

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:12 PM

FH

Wow! That is interesting, and spooky!

#6 brzghoff

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:40 PM

thank you all - i've heard you loud and clear! i am not in a position to respond further tonight but i am taking your recommendations to heart - and to bed ;-)

 

g'nite!


#7 brzghoff

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:23 AM

 

well this is interesting. i slept 10 hrs last night after taking NOTHING! most likely because we spent the day out on a boat in the banana river. did't get fried, we had a shade cover on the boat. but did get plenty of sun when in the water - no sunburn, plenty of sunscreen. anyway i suspect that is why. i know this is not the end of the sleep challenge ,but it was nice to get good sleep all on my own. still rather exhausted today.

 

i found the following info via the link below informative. if i am reading it right, it shows the amount of tryptophan in one 200 calorie serving in various foods. guess its good for us to know how much we consume naturally before using a supplement.

 

http://nutritiondata...0000000-1.html?


#8 fishinghat

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:39 AM

Excellent post Big B. You are absolutely right. Before starting any supplement one should estimate the amount he ingests. Good catch.


#9 FiveNotions

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:09 AM

Hey, thanks for that link! Very informative!

 

I was taking spirulina supps early on, and then stopped for some reason ... still got a big bottle of the stuff, and I think I'll start using it again ... I don't get a lot of those other foods in my diet on a regular basis ... e.g., sea lion, raw goat, caribou, etc :P

 

But I do eat lots of sesame seeds, spinach and salmon ... just not on a daily basis ... I think some adjustments in my daily foods is in order ...


#10 Carleeta

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:39 PM

Brzghoff, The good old natural Vitamin D from the sun (even though you were not directly in it) hit your eyes and brain, which is number one for a good nights sleep...yipeeeeee


#11 brzghoff

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:39 PM

Hey, thanks for that link! Very informative!

 

I was taking spirulina supps early on, and then stopped for some reason ... still got a big bottle of the stuff, and I think I'll start using it again ... I don't get a lot of those other foods in my diet on a regular basis ... e.g., sea lion, raw goat, caribou, etc :P

 

But I do eat lots of sesame seeds, spinach and salmon ... just not on a daily basis ... I think some adjustments in my daily foods is in order ...

 

no sea lion for you... hmmm, who'da thunk? ;-)


#12 brzghoff

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:43 PM

Brzghoff, The good old natural Vitamin D from the sun (even though you were not directly in it) hit your eyes and brain, which is number one for a good nights sleep...yipeeeeee

 

yes, after the fact i was thinking the same thing!  i was directly in it for 1-2 hours worth, just not the entire time we were boating - which was about 5 hours. we stopped to go swimming. i know that in order to get your mimimm recommended daily dosage, it only takes 15 minutes sans sunscreen. i  recently read that due to the increased awareness of skin cancer and sunscreen use, americans are now getting less vitamin D then in the past and that we need to find a healthy balance between avoidance/ exposure to the sun. 


#13 gail

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:58 PM

Brz, when I got my blood test done, 1 month or so ago, I was deficient in vit D. Great surprise here.

 

The doc told me that two thirds of canadian people were deficient in this and did not know it. Our winters that lasts half the year here.

 

Vit D deficiency can cause depression, so many things can.

Glad you had a good night sleep at last.


#14 brzghoff

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:34 PM

Brz, when I got my blood test done, 1 month or so ago, I was deficient in vit D. Great surprise here.

 

The doc told me that two thirds of canadian people were deficient in this and did not know it. Our winters that lasts half the year here.

 

Vit D deficiency can cause depression, so many things can.

Glad you had a good night sleep at last.

 

yes, that does not surprise me. by the way, my in laws were from sherbrooke and trois rivieres. my husband's entire family is from the montreal area. he is first generation born in the US.   

 

i love going up there! however, in the summer, its light at 4:30am and doesn't get dark until 10pm! that's the only other time i can't sleep ;-)


#15 Amysgarden

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:13 AM

You might want to take a B-Stress complex. I've read that your body depletes B12 very rapidly during times of stress. I used to be on Xanax for panic attacks. When I stopped taking it, the panic episodes returned, but the B vitamins made a huge difference in the capacity I had to handle stress and anxiety. I have tried various brands and formulas. What I look for is one where the listed dose requires two capsules. I was taking them morning and late afternoon and it was a lot better than taking a larger concentration just once a day

#16 FiveNotions

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:08 AM

Amy, thanks for that B-complex reminder ! I just realized I haven't been taking mine ... I'd been taking them faithfully up until a month or so ago, then got lost in the job search and slacked off ... just when I really really should have been taking 'em!


#17 buntbean2

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:24 AM

Good point about the sun.  I have felt so much better if I'm outside.  I've been stuck in and have gotten no sun for almost a week now.  Today I'm off but I've been in the house all AM (it's beautiful out) but so much to do.  Yesterday was a real low point.  The self-loathing, why am I here, maybe all this isn't worth it, questions all started.  The hubby chiming in about how hard this past 3 weeks have been on him.

 

You know...Forget the house chores...I'm grabbing a book and going to sit outside for awhile.  I'll let you know if it did any good.  Knowing me it might just stress me out more because I'm already behind in the housework.  


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:32 AM

Just remember if you have never taken B vitamins before they are one of the most common vitamins to be allergic to. Just start low and work your way up.

 

Most common vitamins to be allergic/sensative to you ask. (Well you didn't ask but I am going to tell you anyway!!  lol)

    B vitamins

    Vitamin E

    Micrometals (selenium, chromium, etc)

 

And number one on the list?   Multivitamins. Why? Well they have everything in them and you are bound to be sensitive/allergic to at least one of the components.


#19 FiveNotions

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:37 AM

And didn't a multi-vitamin land you in the ER or hospital, FH?

#20 FiveNotions

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:02 PM

BuntBean, comments like that from those closest to us sure do put a dent in the ol' self-esteem and ramp up the guilt, don't they?

Maybe it would help if you explained to your husband that these first weeks are the hardest, and reassure him that it you are getting better (you are, you know!), and that this lousy phase isn't forever (it isn't, you know!) Guys like timelines, need to know what the issue/problem is, and what's being done to fix it ....

for example, my best buddy is a guy (total "guy's guy" type), and I finally realized that I had to explain this process to him in "guy's terms" ... so, I wrote him an email explaining what was going on in my brain ... the neurotransmitter crap, using the analogy of a car engine ... what the crapalta does to the engine, what happens when the engine isn't getting it any more, and how the engine has to rewire itself ... that he "got" ... and he started focusing on how he could "help my engine" do its rewiring ... ;)

Another thought ... is your husband the kind of guy who might benefit from reading some of the posts here? Or an article or two, or taking a look at one of the other websites, like MadInAmerica.com?

 

And, as for the housework piling up ... you aren't trapped ... you have options ... 1) say screw it, and let it pile up, 2) ask your husband to help with parts of it, 3) write up a schedule, and try to do one or two things a day, then stop and do something for yourself (nap, get outside, whatever), 4) if you can afford it, hire someone to come in to help you ... even once a month, and 5) a combination of all the previous 4.

 

Just try to remember, you are never trapped ... feeling trapped helps to bring on the anxiety and sense of chaos and hopelessness ... there are always options ... it's when we're frozen, anxious, unable to think through the situation to find those options that we need some help .... and that, dear Bunt, is what this forum and all your friends here are for ... we're here to help :D


#21 fishinghat

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:21 PM

It was Centrum Silver that landed my wife in the hospital. She had to stay there several hours while they flushed her system with IV fluids (nothing wrong with her kidneys) lol     I wound up in the hospital ER after taking St. John's Wart. It reacts with ssri/snri and benadryl. After all these years in trying to deal with meds for my anxiety I feel like it has been target practice with me being the target!!!


#22 brzghoff

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:50 PM

 

i'm curious, with all the talk about B complex vitamins, stress, anxiety and stuff.  pernicious anemia. is an auto immune disorder that attacks the production of intrinsic factor in the stomach, which in turn is what enables you to metabolize B 12. you can't cannot absorb any amount of orally ingested B 12 and must get a B 12 shot every month 

 

some people claim they feel "generalized" anxiety from time to time -  can pernicious anemia be a cause of anxiety? 


#23 fishinghat

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:30 PM

I did a search and could find no link between pernicious anemia and anxiety. I will keep looking though.


#24 FiveNotions

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:42 PM

I found this, posted on a website -- CalmClinic. I'll go back and scope out who/what this is ... but wanted to post the article here first ...

"Anxiety Linked to Anemia"
http://www.calmclini...y/causes/anemia

 

NOTE: see Brzghoff's post below... the "CalmClinic" website's info is good, there is an anxiety-anemia connection, but the site itself is into "selling stuff" to make $$$. Brzghoff posted a legit site, with more info, not commercially motivated.


Edited by FiveNotions, 03 September 2014 - 08:49 PM.

#25 fishinghat

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:27 PM

I stand corrected. (Good catch FN) Pernicious Anemia can cause a low red blood cell count which in turn can cause anxiety. Most times PA does not lower red blood cell count low enough to cause anxiety. Primarily it causes extra large red blood cells that are immature. Your physician has surely run rbc counts and can share the number with you. The red blood cell count must be well below normal.


#26 thismoment

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:16 PM

Pernicious would be a good name for a grouchy-looking cat.


#27 brzghoff

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:56 PM

I stand corrected. (Good catch FN) Pernicious Anemia can cause a low red blood cell count which in turn can cause anxiety. Most times PA does not lower red blood cell count low enough to cause anxiety. Primarily it causes extra large red blood cells that are immature. Your physician has surely run rbc counts and can share the number with you. The red blood cell count must be well below normal.

 

wow! that might just be it!  he does have a low red blood cell count due to enlarged blood cells. i just saw all this and am pulling up the link right now


#28 brzghoff

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:00 PM

i just read the article, that has GOT to be it! wow, thanks. i am sharing this with him! but it all makes sense. low RBC means low oxygen, just like what happens with shallow breathing - and we know what that leads to...


#29 brzghoff

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

 

did a bit more sleeting. it appears tha the info shared regarding rBC and anxiety is very real. the calm clinic site is not a legit site and is selling some "triad technique" to cure anxiety. i found another site http://www.anxietysocialnet.com…. that did their own sleuthing. the anxiety social net appears to be a legit site. at least after a cursory review


#30 FiveNotions

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:45 PM

Brzghoff ... thanks for checking that website. I'm going to edit my post with that info now.





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