14 replies to this topic

[joecinsf]

I think my head is all messed up. I'm on 110mg per day. (I know I said 120mg above. That was my dose for two years) How do I take out 2 beads one day, 3 the next, 4 the next day and so on.... I'm on 110mg right now. I don't get it. If I keep taking one bead out per day, at my dosage, I'll be doing nothing else but counting. What am I missing?

I began tapering on September 2, 2014, 120mg to 110mg (taking one 60mg capsule, 30mg capsule and a 20mg capsule per day) I am still feeing lethargic most of the day and my gut hurts. Could this be from the tapering of 10mg? It's been three weeks too. How could this still be going on for this long? I was hoping I would be stabilized by now. I feel like I am going nowhere. I hardly leave the house. What confuses me more is that I do have some days I feel well enough to go out walking and errands. But then the next day I feel sick again. Does this cycle sound familiar to anyone? I don’t know what I should do. I do not want increase my dosage but it sounds like the only solution.

[FiveNotions]

Joe, I could scream ... I just wrote you a long, detailed response , hit post ... and poof ... the system made it disappear....

 

Well, I guess brevity is better anyway ... yes, you're going too fast, and that 10 mg drop essentially put you into cold turkey. You were at 120 mg, which is a high dose. I suspect your brain has gotten really "hooked" on that big serotonin boost, and it's going to take you more time, and bead counting, not dose dropping, to get off the poison.

 

Everything you're experiencing is from the drop in serotonin in your brain .. question is, do you want to wait it out at 110 mg, get stable, and count beads from there, or go back up to the 120 mg get stable and then bead count ... you could also go back up to a dose just under 120 ...

 

I'm going to let our resident bead-counters give you more advice on this ... all I can be sure of is that the sort of "cycle" that you're describing is, indeed, part of the weaning process ...

 

Don't give up! And don't be too hard on yourself.... getting off of Cymbalta is a difficult process, you need as much rest and relaxation as you can get ... you're going to get off the stuff, you just need to slow down a bit and try not to push yourself so hard.

[thismoment]

FN

 

Your post showed up on another page attached to Joe's duplicate post.

[FiveNotions]

Thanks, TM .... oh, didn't realize Joe had posted in two places ... brain fart, sorry ... okay, I'm re-posting it here ...
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Yep, Joe, everything you're experiencing is from the Cymbalta leaving your system ..and yep, getting off this stuff takes quite a while for a lot of people ... those of us who are here on the forum are those people. Some are able to get off the drug quite easily, and in a short amount of time. But a lot of folks have a lot of trouble ... it's truly different for each and every individual. You're finding out, I think, that you're going to need to do this more slowly.... and yep, bead counting is the way to do it ...

All of these symptoms you've got are due to the big drop in Serotonin in your brain as you dose down. Believe it or not, coming down by just 10 mg. all at once constitutes a pretty big drop. Cymbalta artificially boosts the serotonin level, and when we start reducing our dose, our poor brain has to relearn how to manage serotonin by itself again. Your brain is essentially screaming at you for dropping down in dose ...

So, Let's see if I've got this straight ... you were on 120 for 2 years ... that's a really high dose, so my bet is your brain is really "hooked" on that big of a serotonin boost ... you dropped to 110 mg on September 2, and you've been at 110 for about 19 days ... almost a full 3 weeks ... and, you're still not feeling good all the time, but you are having some good days/periods of time ...

I'm thinking you've got several choices ...1) hold at 110 mg, ride out the symptoms and wait until you get stable ... then go back to bead counting, by removing just a few beads every day ... or, every few days ... whatever number of beads and over whatever period of time your body will allow you to do without giving you unmanageable symptoms...

2) go back up to the full 120 and get stable there, then count down....

3) go back up to a dose somewhere between 120 and 110 ... by taking just a few beads out of the 120, then staying at that level until stable ... but for that approach, I need to let the others here who know bead counting really well help you figure out how many beads, etc. (I think I mentioned further up in this thread that I'm a cold turkey survivor ... the fast hard drop, and the long hard recovery. )

Hang in there ... the first few weeks of this are the hardest in terms of symptoms, the most confusing in terms of trying to learn why this is happening, how to manage the weaning process, and how to listen to what our brain/body is telling us ...

Stay tuned... our resident bead-counters will be here soon!

[Cissy]

I was on 60mg for 8-10 years and I asked my doctor to take me off of it due to weight gain..he put me on 30 mg that day with one each day and one every other day..10 pills in all. I felt dizziness and nausea right away but was functional. Ather finishing the 10 pills-my symptoms excelerated to point of throwing up ,increased the dizziness, eyes zapping with nano-seconds that felt like blackouts! I felt so very sick couldn't sit upright, cramps in calves. My husband took my to the ER and I felt so sick I was crying and felt like I was dying! ER doctor put a shot (through IV) for nausea and another for anxiety. He told me I had been taken off to soon and he gave me a script for two weeks of 30 mg. I asked "do I have to go back on this?" He said, "do you want to stay this way?" I started back on them with heavy heart. I am better than I was; however, back to initial withdrawal but feel weaker, dizzy with less nausea. What a nightmare! Got to get in to see my doctor this week to see if he has another withdrawal plan . I am new to this forum but have been reading the posts from others

[FiveNotions]

Hi Cissy, welcome!! I am so glad you found us, because we can help you get through this... You can, and will, get off this stuff!

 

You have come down in dose way to fast, and in way too big a step!!! Essentially, you put yourself (thanks to your idiot doc's idiotic advice) into cold turkey withdrawal. All those awful symptoms you had, that landed you in the ER, are typical of cold turkey withdrawal. I quit cold turkey (insurance problems, and I hadn't discovered this forum) ... and I had all of those, and more, for 2 months ... TryinginFlorida also quit cold turkey ... she'll attest that it ain't no fun ...

 

If you want to do this the easiest way possible, you need to use the bead counting method ... where you open the capsule and remove a couple/several beads every day, or every few days (even once a week) ... and come down very gradually ... that give your brain / body time to adjust to the loss of the Cymbalta serotonin boost.

 

First, however, you need to go back up to the last dose size where you were stable ... I'd suggest that you go back on the full 60 mg, get stable, and then start bead counting your way down. Your doc is probably not going to know anything about this method, most of them don't. Just insist that he get you back on an Rx for the 60 mg .... tell him you need to stabilize cuz you feel awful at 30 ... and that once you're feeling okay again, you'll consider reducing ... you can then start the bead counting even if you don't tell him ... we can  walk you through it ...

 

Although, since I did it the hard way, cold turkey, I'll defer to the others here who have actual experience with bead counting, to give you specifics.

 

Just get yourself up to a dose where you can get stable and feel symptom-free. You'll then have time to develop a sensible plan that suits you to get off with minimal problems.

 

You see, crapalta artificially boosts serotonin in the brain, and our brains thus get "hooked" on it ... serotonin is involved in every aspect of the CNS function ... essentially, every one of our bodily functions ... that's the explanation (well, a pretty simplified one) for all the awful symptoms you've been having ... too drastic a drop in serotonin ...

 

Bead counting will give your brain/body the maximum opportunity to adjust to the loss of the drug's serotonin boost and to begin to return to regulating your serotonin level naturally ... it takes time for your brain to rewire itself

 

Keep us posted on how you're feeling, and especially how it goes with your doc!

[Twiddleplum]

Hi, I've been on cymbalta 60mg for about a year and it defenatily helped me be cope a lot better with general anxiety, however I want to come off it as I really haven't heard anything positive anywhere about it and especially coming off it. I have a lot less happening in my life now and feel I should try and find natural ways to cope with stress than taking cymbalta. I've noticed taking cymbalta has lowered my appetite and can make me feel nauseous and very dopey midday if I take 60mg first thing in the morning. I also have frequent periods of itchy skin but not sure if that's due to cymbalta but have never really experienced it before. I fully understand the feeling of the brain zaps and dizzy disorientation feeling that many people mention and I usually get this if I forgot to take a tablet after 1 day. So, I have seen my doctor who has given me 30mg tablets and a box of 2mg diazepam to take if I feel brain drunk. I took half of a 30 mg tablet last night straight from 60 mg just to see how today would go. I had my appetite in full swing today which is good and only started getting dizziness when I got home at 6 pm. I've took one diazepam and I will more than likely be asleep by 10 pm as I am every night and up at 6am. I have a particularly busy stressful job 40 hrs a week and can't afford to loose it over doing this wrong. I do think from previous posts that I've jumped down took quickly but I wanted to just see what 15mg approx would make me feel like. Can you recommend what I should do next and How many weeks you think it'll take for me to come off feelin the minimum side effects. I do feel irritation and low tolerance of other people right now whereas while taking cymbalta I had the patience to listen and talk to people without this underboiling anger and frustration. I will however have to take deep breaths and control emotions. Easy said than don!

[FiveNotions]

Hi Twiddleplum, welcome!! Excellent decision to get off the crapalta!

 

But you've got to do it sensibly .... First off, bead count ... do NOT do the huge drop that you've just done ... it will bite you in the butt big time ... go back up to the 60 mg, get completely stable, and then start bead counting your way down. Read my post just above yours.

 

The drop you've done is going to put you into cold turkey withdrawal, which will screw with you ... don't jeopardize how stable you feel now, or the place you've gotten to in your life where you feel ready to get off the stuff ...

 

Slow but sure ... give your brain and body plenty of time to adjust to the loss of the artificial serotonin boost that crapalta provides ... your brain has to re-learn to regulate it's own serotonin ....

 

I quit cold turkey ... I assure you, it ain't pretty ... blessedly, I wasn't working at the time ... you are ... you need to do this slowly !

 

I'm so glad you found us! Please keep posting regularly to let us know how you're doing ...

 

I'll try to find detailed instructions on how to bead count from our archives and will post the link(s) here ... our bead counting "gurus" Fishinghat and ThisMoment have taken a break from posting on the forum ... they've been our "go to guys" for this ... and there are some excellent posts of theirs in the archives....

[TryinginFL]

Welcome Twiddleplum!  You have found a wonderful place with great people who will help you to do this!

 

Everything FN just posted for you is the straight scoop - watch for the links to the bead counting -- she will find them!  That is definitely the way you want to go to keep yourself sane and with little withdrawal especially since you are working.

 

Please go back up to your 60 dosage until you feel really stable - then follow the bead counting and it will be a much more gentle trip!

 

Good luck and please post often to let us know how you're doing!

[psychrn]

I can't believe how resistant I am to believing a dose of 30 mg/day for a year could have me so messed up. I read about the bead counting and thought that was way too tedious so I started dumping beads. Approximately 1/4 capsule for a week, then a half, then 3/4. Now I should stop, but my vivid dreams are now nightmares, I ache all over, frequent bad headaches, and I'm trying to work 12 hour shifts!! Can't afford to take weeks off. My German background says just tough it out, but it's getting really hard.

[gail]

Hello Psychrn, wellcome to our forum.

FiveNotions should chime in any moment.

 

So I will take her place for the moment with questions, if you dont mind. To facilitate her answers.

 

You say 30mg for a year, what do you mean by messed up? Is that the reason you started to taper?

 

What was the reason for taking it?

 

Any benzos, any anxiety, brain zaps, symptoms?

 

You are in your fourth week, and feel you should stop?

 

When did the symptoms begin? At what dose were you comfortable with?

 

All those questions will help Fivenotions to help you. Hang in there, I am positive that she will be here soon.

[FiveNotions]

Welcome, psychrn! Glad you found us, so sorry you're feeling lousy!

 

Stop the bead dumping immediately ... you're causing your own problems by doing it that way. And, if I'm guessing correctly from your screen name, are you a psych nurse? If so, you should know better!

 

You've put yourself into hard, cold turkey withdrawal. It's quite likely that it ain't gonna' get better soon, it's likely to get worse.

 

Go back up to the last "dump" level where you were stable ... ideally, get yourself back on the full 30 mg. Stay there a week or two until the symptoms subside and you're stable again.

 

Then, do it the tedious way ... bead counting ... you'll be able to control the symptoms. Right now, they're controlling you.

 

Head over to our "bead counting -- how to do it" thread for some specific info.

 

If you're working 12 hour days, and if you're in health care and responsible for other people's lives, you're jeopardizing not only your own long term health, but the health and safety of your patients ... and, by extension, your career.

 

I'm German/Dutch, so I know a thing or two about being stubborn, stoic and determined. Trust me on this, I went cold turkey because I had to (lost insurance, etc) ... cold turkey was absolute hell ... for at least a couple of months ... then it gradually started to get a bit better ... but it was only at the 7th month off that I was able to start functioning again ... Cold turkey turned me into a miserable lump of pain and suffering.

 

Stay with us and keep posting! You can, and will, get off this poison. Just be gentle with yourself, please

[psychrn]

Stopped because I found if I was just 8 hours late I was having vivid dreams. I didn't like being on a drug that impacted me so much. I've had a lifetime of depression and didn't take medication until the 90s because of the stigma and the adverse affect it would have on my career. Used Prozac for many years but tapered off that when I was no longer feeling sad, wasn't feeling anything! After a year or so of nothing I started Cymbalta last fall, my worst time of the year and made the choice because of also having fibromyalgia. No help with the fibromyalgia, but that is managed well with Ulram - 50 mg 1 or 2 times a day. Depression was controlled. After writing my first note I have decided to go back to the 30mg. My reason for wanting off it isn't worth it. This winter or spring I will see about going down to 20 mg. maybe they will eventually come up with realistic tapering. I am spreading the news about Cymbalta to all the professionals I come in contact with. This seems like a drug that should never be started!

[psychrn]

I forgot to mention that psych NPs and even psychiatrists don't seem very aware of withdrawal issues. However I'm not seeing it ordered very often.

[FiveNotions]

You sure are right about this drug, never should be on the market. And, also dead on about the docs/med professionals having no clue about it, or how to get off it. They only know what the pharma co reps tell them. Pathetic, huh

 

Bravo for "spreading the word" ! The more people we, who've suffered at the hands of this evil stuff, can prevent from going through the same experience the better.

 

I'm really glad you went back up to the 30 mg. The symptoms should ease up/disappear quite rapidly.

 

However, you idea to do a step down from 30 to 20 is going to put you into hard withdrawal as well. Bead counting is the only realistic way of tapering.

 

"They" don't give a shit about helping anyone get off this stuff, "they" want us to stay on it, because "they" (the docs) get kick-backs from Eli Lilly for every Rx they write.

 

Hang in there, you will get off this stuff!