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Psychiatrists Good And Bad


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#1 lady2882Nancy

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 05:40 PM

I have been following the forums since I joined in February 2013. Although I did not keep posting due to my own health issues I did continue to "follow" all the forums and often visited to see the replies to new forums. I know that during my time of actively posting that many of us did search for natural remedies to our problems and some of us were forced to used other medications in order to cope with the fall out from having been on Cymbalta or from discontinuing using it.

 

Keep in mind that only 20% of people discontinuing Cymbalta experience Withdrawal Syndrome - that means that 80% don't have any problems at all.

The next point is that only 2% have severe Withdrawal Syndrome - that means that for 98% of people there are no problems or the problems are over within 2 to 6 weeks.

 

With that information in mind, how and why would anyone expect every Psychiatrist to have seen a case like ours when most if not all of their patients haven't had any problems with using or discontinuing Cymbalta. People give your heads a shake and get real. If you watched 98 people do something with little or no problems wouldn't you expect the 99th and 100th to be able to do it too????

 

There have been a number of posts lately where Psychiatrists have given the new member a plan to get off Cymbalta, a plan that is reasonable and sound but the reaction from other members has been to shut it down before the newbie has even tried it.

How do we know that the plan may not work perfectly for this new member?

What if we are scaring them unnecessarily?

How do we know that this very plan would not have worked for us???

 

Of course there is some tweaking that those of us who have been there already want to add although I haven't seen the recommendations for Omega 3 showing up (omega 3 calms the neurotransmitters in the brain reducing brain zaps) or for drinking lots of water to flush the liver of the toxins so that the body and brain can begin to repair itself. And what happened to B vitamins, has that information been lost in the shuffle?

Hydroxyzine was originally suggested for the itchiness that so many get, the calming effect is only a result for a few that find this medication to cause sleepiness.

 

Not all Psychiatrists are out to lunch on the problems of antidepressants or "brainwashed" by big pharma. I have found that you may have to do some homework but that you can find a good one that will work with you. I told my Psychiatrist that I was med sensitive and when we discussed some of my reactions to different meds she put a plan in place that has been slow but has steadily improved my problems.

 

I was 51 years old when I was given Cymbalta by my family doctor. I had lived my life and supported myself with what I considered normal emotional ups and downs.  Within 5 weeks of starting Cymbalta I was suicidal but the family doctor I had didn't get it and wanted me to stay on it for another 6 weeks. I almost killed myself and would have if a young pharmacist hadn't realized that there was something wrong.

 

My point in all of this is that we have to quit blaming Psychiatrists for what has happened to us and to realize that they are only human like us and are doing the job they were educated to do. Sure there are some not so caring ones but try being a little more open-minded and maybe you to will get the help you need to deal with life after Cymbalta.

 

A final note in the way of a suggestion. Go to the Cymbalta site and read the warnings included with the packaging (I know that some of this was added in recent years so was not available for all who started years ago). Do you find anything that applies to you? I didn't think that I did when I started it but it turns out I was mildly Bipolar. I will type up my story about that another day.

 


#2 gail

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:57 PM

Interesting post LadyNancy,

I got stuck by your second paragraph. 98% have no problems discontinuating cymbalta or problems solved within two to six weeks.

This is not what I have heard or read about, can you give information as where you got this info. Thanks!

#3 brzghoff

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:59 PM

you make a very valid point. there are good psychiatrists and we shouldn't automatically question their advice, especially a doctor (psych or otherwise) who recognizes the potential severity of SSRI/SNRI withdrawal. those who recommend a cross taper to an anti-d with a longer half life from which the patient can then withdraw later are few and far between. when a patient finds a doctor with the willingness to try another strategy when the first one doesn't work - keep him or her! recent posts from two of our newer forum members have described such doctors. i wish there were more of them.

 

my psych told me the day he first met me that i would be on anti-d's for life. i was at an extremely desperate and vulnerable point in my life and accepted whatever he said. it took 18 years, and 6 drugs later for me to see the light. he tried to discourage me from getting off of the C but didn't try to stop me. i had already managed to drop from 90 to 60 to 30 over the previous almost 2 years. he told me to alternate the 30 for two weeks and then stop. when i told him at a follow up the impact it was having on me and that i was splitting my caps into 15 mg he shook his head. he said "the manufacturer says that if you have difficulty with that taper schedule it means the depression is coming back" . i asked him what he thought, and he defered to the manufactrer's expertise. i knew at that point i would never go back. 

 

the real problem is the lack of information provided by big pharma about these drugs and the lack of informed consent given to the patients who take them. there is evidence that the discontinuation syndrom data provided by the drug manifacturers about their drugs is skewed. its based on their research - not indepdendent third party studies. eli lilly claims that weight gain and sexual dysfunction are "less common" side effects. psychiatrists have learned in their offices the figure is closer to 50% for sexual s/e's and almost 100% for weight gain. 

 

all that being said, we should not be dispensing medical advice. when we discuss meds it should be in the context that it might be an option to ask about with your doctor. i don't like the "got any benzo's lying around?" approach. 


#4 FiveNotions

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:55 PM

Here are a couple of articles I had "stashed" ... I think FH has some stats and research on this as well ...
---------------------------------
The following study was funded by Eli Lilly ... and it indicates 44.3% ... which means that the % is likely much higher, given that it's not in Lilly's best interest to fully disclose the problems.... they'd lose all the lawsuits that they're currently defending themselves against ...

Symptoms following abrupt discontinuation of duloxetine treatment in patients with major depressive disorder
Journal of Affective Disorders (December 2005)
http://www.jad-journ...0286-7/abstract

Authors
David G. Perahia1
Lilly Research Centre, EMC Building, Erl Wood Manor, Sunninghill Road, Windlesham, Surrey, GU20 6PH, UK

Daniel K. Kajdasz
The Gordon Hospital, London SW1, UK

Durisala Desaiah
Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN, USA

Peter M. Haddad
Neuroscience and Psychiatry Unit, University of Manchester, UK

In a pooled analysis of 6 short-term treatment trials, in which treatment was stopped abruptly, discontinuation-emergent adverse events (DEAEs) were reported by 44.3% and 22.9% of duloxetine- and placebo-treated patients, respectively.
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Influence of drug company authorship and sponsorship on drug trial outcomes.
British Journal of Psychiatry, July 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17602130

Abstract: Abstract

Studies of drug treatments are more likely to report favourable outcomes when they are funded by the pharmaceutical industry. We compared drug trials reported in three major psychiatric journals to investigate these influences. Independent studies were more likely to report negative findings than industry-funded studies. However, the involvement of a drug company employee had a much greater effect on study outcome than financial sponsorship alone.
-------------------------------

Another thing that occurs to me is that the folks who don't have much trouble getting off this drug don't tend to end up on this forum, because they don't find themselves desperate for information on what is happening to them, thus don't go out searching on the internet ... if I had been able to get off this without much trouble, I know I wouldn't have found this place ... because I would have had no need to look for help ... and we do have quite a few people who arrive here, and stay only briefly, because they are able to get off relatively easily ... and so, they move on with their lives ... which is wonderful ...

Also, when you consider that about 10% of the total US population is estimated to be on antidepressants (see article below ... but I need to research how many are on Cymbalta specifically), and apply that percentage to the total US population of approx. 350 million people, then take even 1% of that as the group that has trouble getting off an antidepressant ... that's a lot of people who are suffering ...
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Astounding increase in antidepressant use by Americans
Harvard (Medical School) Health Blog, 10/20/2011
http://www.health.ha...ns-201110203624

According to a report released yesterday by the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), the rate of antidepressant use in this country among teens and adults (people ages 12 and older) increased by almost 400% between 1988–1994 and 2005–2008.

The federal government’s health statisticians figure that about one in every 10 Americans takes an antidepressant. And by their reckoning, antidepressants were the third most common prescription medication taken by Americans in 2005–2008, the latest period during which the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) collected data on prescription drug use.
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#5 FiveNotions

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 12:55 AM

Here's a link to a web page on the Knox Ricksen Cymbalta withdrawal lawsuit website ... in the center of the page are embedded images of two FDA documents detailing Cymbalta withdrawal statistics, symptoms and research ... clicking on the images takes you to the documents...

Cymbalta Discontinuation Syndrome Report Presented to the FDA
http://cymbaltawithd...ation-syndrome/

For a real eye-opener, easy reading ... click on the one on the left ...

Cymbalta (Duloxetine) Discontinuation Syndrome
Issues of Scope, Severity, Duration & Management
June 2009

#6 gail

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:58 AM

Brz,

Your last paragraph did hit a nerve, and you are right about the Any benzos around? I will amend to that. An eye opener, thanks!

FN, thanks for the research, I knew that I had seen that around somwhere, about the %.

#7 brzghoff

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 10:51 AM

i would also like to add that even though it was originally developed as an antihistamine to treat allergies, hydroxyzine is a bonifide treatment for anxiety, http://www.drugs.com/hydroxyzine.html. tricyclic anti depressants are third generation antihistamines. 

 

you will find that throughout these forums there are numerous references to using omega 3 and other natural supplements, drinking lots of water to keep hydrated, B vitamins as well as magnesium, calcium and vitamin D, of course, cognitive behavioral therapy  is essential to recovery. you will also see numerous references to that recommendation throughout this forum. if CBT was the first line of defense to treat depression and anxiety rather than medication, 10% of the population would not be on anti-depressants. anti-d's are among the top 3 classes of drugs in sales in the US. the others are heart medications and cholesterol drugs. 


#8 Laurahokie

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:08 PM

I am a believer in CBT as I have read you are Brzghoff. I am very happy I found this forum. That being said, I am new and appreciated Lady Nancy' being open minded to my doctors approach but giving me advice to augment with another ssri. I will talk to my doctor about that at my next appointment . My doctor is very open minded and does not dismiss my research and experience.
I know I could be in for a long battle, and I appreciate everyone's honesty, but I do think it is important to reemphasize that every one is different and each person weaning needs to take it day by day. Initially I felt bummed after I shared my story. Now, I understand that everyone was simply looking out for me and did not want me to expect smooth sailing, but I agree that we don't want to say all doctors are f.o.s. :) Everyone seems to look out for each other and have the best of intentions, but we surely want to keep newcomers optimistic. It is not sunshine and rainbows but many of you still seem to live fairly happy lives and its important to share that too.

#9 lady2882Nancy

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:23 PM

Hydroxyzine doesn't do a thing for my anxiety but that could be because I have taken it so many times to relief contact allergies that it no longer has that affect on me. Also I know when I first came to the site back in Feb 2013 there wasn't a lot of information posted specifically to inform regarding supplements, most of it was pretty anecdotal which is why I began doing posts on suggested supplements etc with the help of a member named GreenMachine. He was one of the lucky ones who only had to deal with the syndrome for a short time.

 

Unfortunately I was unable to continue due to my own state of mind which thankfully therapy with a good psychologist (although not CBT) and some necessary medications has greatly improved.

I completely agree with you that if therapy (not limited to just CBT) were tried before antidepressants were ever prescribed there would be far less people on antidepressants and I think that number would be greater than 10%. Most people just need to learn some coping skills to deal with a temporary low point in their lives.

 

My biggest complaint in all of this is the whole idea that a person who is dealing with chronic pain from a real injury or real nerve damage are given these meds because "they must be depressed which is why they are feeling so much pain" rather than the obvious that we are down because we are in so much pain. The fall out of putting a person without real depression on an antidepressant is often to cause a Medication Induced Mental Illness far worse then the pain caused depression they were feeling.

 

I can only thank the good Lord that I found both a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist that together are helping me to become somewhat balanced and able to deal with the illness I now have due to Cymbalta.


#10 ZappAlta

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 03:45 AM

Lady how long are you off Cymbalta and do you feel you still have lingering effects from it?  What supplements do you find helpful? Thank you for coiming back





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