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#1 brzghoff

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:38 AM

just started to take .1 mg clonidine 2 x a day on dec 24 (up from 1 x a day at night). man oh man is my BP getting jacked around! during the sweet spot about 2-4 hours after taking it, it zooms down to record low levels (for me) 107/65 - then as it wears off around 6-8 hours after taking it, BP zooms up into the 145-155/85-95 range. also, after it kicks in i am so tired its debilitating. it does help reduce anxiety and the depression didn't take its place. i stopped taking my other BP med, 50 mg of losartan because of the low side, one day it went down to 95/62 and i was too dizzy to stand for several hours. it was kind of rough socializing wth family on christmas eve and christmas day - but i still had fun. i was the wooziest and was the only one not drinking!   ;-)

 

i did not take the clonidine this morning and took 100 mg of losartan instead and am going to try a 500 mg gradual release niacin with lunch - which i know is good to lower blood pressure. today anxiety hasn't been too bad.

 

any thoughts with others who have experience with clonidine? i can't see how fivenotions can manage it 3 x a day! for what its worth, i am 5'4" and 115 pounds - in case size makes a difference. 


#2 fishinghat

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:49 AM

bryghoff, sounds like you are very sensitive to the clonidine. Usually these erratic effeects level off after one or two weeks but considering your reaction I would make a suggestion. Go back on yoour regular meds on their regular schedule (including losartan). Once back to 'normal' you have three choices, try a 1/4 tablet of clonidine, working your way up on dosage over the next 3 or 4 weeks OR just skip the clonidine all together OR replace the losartran with clonidine.. My gut feeling is to drop the clonidine as you will always have a risk of bp getting too low. Either way you should probably run this pass your dr.


#3 brzghoff

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:56 AM

thanks fh,

 

i have an appoint right after the new year - thanks!


#4 FiveNotions

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 05:13 PM

Hi Brz, I'm sorry you're having trouble with the clonidine with respect to your bp and how tired it makes you feel ... I did initially, but then stabilized ... also, my doc told me, in no uncertain terms, not to take both the clonidine and my old bp med (metoprolol) ...

FH's approach/options are exactly what I'd suggest ... and yep, definitely talk to your doc ... there is an extended-release clonidine available, my doc said that if my bp "jacked up" part-way through the day, I might want to switch to that ... but I haven't felt I needed to ... perhaps that's something for you to talk to your doc about as well?

Here's my story with the clonidine dose .... I'm roughly your size/weight (5'3" tall, and weigh 120), and the doc also told me that that is a factor in how the stuff affects us ...

as you remembered, my initial dose was 0.1 mg twice a day ... and the first two weeks I took it, it made me very, very sleepy ... and it did seem to push my bp down a bit too low ... approx. 100/65 average ... I measure my bp 3 times a day ... and if it was too low, I'd take less than the .1 mg, or skip the dose ...

and, for me, after those first 2 weeks, the bp came back up to normal ... 110/70 to 120/80 ... and it stopped making me unpleasantly drowsy during the day ... but it did continue to help me get to sleep at night ...

I was fine on that dose until late Aug, when I started back to work, 20 hrs a week ... the bp went up, as did the stress -- adrenaline dump sensation .... that's when I went to 0.1 mg 3 x a day ... and it again came down ...

but, when I added on the second job and my work week zoomed up to 60-70 hrs ... my bp went sky high ...160/110 - 185/115 range... and the adrenaline dump sensation kicked in non-stop .... that's when I switched to .2 mg twice a day, and on a couple of really, really bad days, I had to toss in 0.1 mg mid-day ...

I'm still taking .2 mg twice a day, and I'm still working two jobs ... my bp has stabilized in the normal range, and I'm holding my own with the anxiety as well ...

my bet is that as soon as this second job ends, on 1/4/15, my bp/anxiety will drop right back down, and I'll be able to reduce the clonidine back to the .1 mg bid ...

#5 gail

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 04:01 PM

Fishinghat,

Sent you a pm that was lost somewhere.

About clonidine, which I have tried in July at .1 twice a day for a few days and did not work.
Willing to try it again, is it safe to jump to .2 twice a day?

And does it need a build up? Thanks.

#6 fishinghat

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:04 AM

Gail, sorry I didn't get your PM. I would recommend for you to break in slowly. It is not usually necessary but if I remember you had problems with sleepiness the first time. It can also initially cause a drop in blood pressure. I would recommend you start at a half pill (0.05 mg) at bed time. Increase your dosage by a half tablet each 10 days to 14 days to give your body a chance to adjust. Just watch your bp and be patient.


#7 gail

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 01:42 PM

Thanks FH, I had no sleepiness, it just did not do anything, like a placebo.
Just saw this reply, and took .1 this am. No sleepiness. Went much smoother at work. A fluke? Don't know, but I was surprised to see a difference!
Will watch the bp.
Be patient!! Yeah, been patient for the last year or should I say inpatient? Love you.

#8 FiveNotions

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:10 PM

Gail, do you have a blood pressure cuff? I got the kind that goes on the wrist ... I think Brzghoff may be the one who suggested this kind ... I take my pressure 3 x a day ... before I take the clonidine ...

FH is totally correct in how best to go about the dosing ... take it slow and easy until you get a sense of how your body responds ... bp and anxiety level responses ... also, get a sense of what a normal bp range is for you, individually ... for example, I can run fine as low as 100/60 approx.... but that, for Brzghoff, is the "snooze / faint" range ...

Initially, I increased my dose by 1/4 tablet ... that's how concerned I was about how the stuff would affect me ... probably far, far too cautious ...

I noticed the anti-anxiety affect immediately ...

Keep us posted on how this goes .... fingers crossed for you !

#9 fishinghat

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:34 PM

A special note on taking bp. It should always be taken setting down with the arm at or below heart level and after 2 minutes or more of setting and resting.


#10 gail

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 05:58 PM

Thank Fn and Fh,

Yes, I have the bp apparel. Got two neighbors that I practice on every day. Arm at heart level, they get a kick from that as I hold their arms under mine.

Will go slow, morning for me is the worst for the anxiety. Will keep it this way. Then, I will see.

As for the bp, it runs between 130-140 on 80 most of the time. More 140. Doc has no problem with this.

Will keep you posted. By the way, fifth day in withdrawal from another poison, seroquel 50. Doing better. Nothing like the C withdrawal.

#11 FiveNotions

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 06:04 PM

Gail, wow, getting off Seroquel ... way to go! bravo!

 

But please say you're not doing it cold turkey ... what method? does it have the little pesky pellets/beads, or is it a tablet?

 

Factor in that this may/will likely affect both your bp and the anxiety ....

 

And what "symptoms," if any are you feeling as you get off the Seroquel? does your doc know?


#12 gail

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:22 PM

FN,

Tablets, no beads. Went from 100 to 50 for six weeks, then to 25 for eight days then off.

Few symptoms, very low grade nausea.
Anxiety spikes, here and there. Used to that.

All in all, better today and yesterday than when I was on it.

Asked doc about it on last visit, when i was at 50, she wanted me to wait to facilitate the tapering of Valium. As I was getting more depressed, I decided by myself.

In case you do not know, 50 is the dosage they prescribe for sleep.
I took that in the morning as I have not much problem with sleep except for that f****g morning anxiety.

Thanks for your concern FN, will keep an eye on the bp.

#13 FiveNotions

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 01:18 AM

Gail, since I've been taking Zantac, the morning anxiety -- the creepy/crawly sinking stomach sensations -- has faded substantially ... and I'm having a fair number of mornings without it altogether ... were you "in" on the thread somewhere here where we were discussing Zantac and acid reflux/GERD recently? FH pointed out that acid reflux can be connected with anxiety ... I'm pooped, too much so to go find the link right now, but I'll do that tomorrow ... correction, later today ... when I get up. (This is the last week of my 2d job, and I've been working ridiculous hours...)


#14 gail

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:19 AM

Fn, I don't have acid reflux.
I have read that thread.

Have had morning anxiety for years, at different levels.
Woke up panicky around 11pm yesterday, that is part of withdrawal.
Surprises here and there, real good ones and really not so good ones.

At last, your work will end soon. Eight weeks, you did it and sound good. What an experience! Bravo for you.

#15 FiveNotions

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 11:59 AM

Yep, and just as I predicted in a post above, as the job "winds down," so do I ... and down comes my bp and anxiety ... have already reduced my morning clonidine dose back to the 0.1 mg ... and, I slept for almost 10 hrs last night ... straight through .. no anxiety wake-ups or "pee runs" ... wonder I didn't wet the bed, given my "old fart bladder" ... :P


#16 zivcha

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 12:31 PM

Hi FiveNotions,

i read your last reply and i must say that beside having fast heart rate at mornings (start around 0600 regardles of how many hours i slept or how tired i am), i also have to run to the restroom to pee. Is it something that is related to anxiety\high adrenergic tone? if so, i did not know that...


#17 fishinghat

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:17 PM

Yes Zivcha. With stress comes high metabolism (faster heart rate, faster breathing ,etc). This faster metabolism also includes kidney function and those frequent trips to the bathroom. That is why we always stress staying hydrated. These frequent bathroom trips also explain the extra excretion of calcium and magnesium and the need for many anxiety patients to take those as supplements. Low calcium and magnesium can cause muscle, joint and other body pains (eg. cramps) as they are both used in muscle contractions. They also make heartpounding and racing more significant. The medical research I have read says that serum levels of calcium and magnesium should be at least 10% within the bottom of the normal range. Many drs (including mine) put me on100 mg magnesium 3 times per day and my blood chemistry showed I did not need additional calcium.


#18 zivcha

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:33 PM

I see. Thank you.

i thought that the frequent runs to the bathroom might also be explained by over contraction\unrelaxation of the bladder's muscle, but - this is only an hippothesis. not scientific at all.

as for magnesium - im taking about 75 mg once a day. that can explain why i dont feel any improvement. i will ask my doctor, but to be honest - i don't trust doctors any more. i feel that in order to get better - i must help myself.


#19 fishinghat

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:39 PM

Zivcha

 

Ask your dr to run a CMP (Complete metabolic panel). One of the things it will list is serum calcium and magnesium and you can see for yourself what the levels are. Many drs say if you are within normal limits than you are OK but for anxiety patients you need to be at least 10 or more above the lower limit.





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