24 replies to this topic

[Pups4Life]

Hi folks...I was hoping to not have to post anything like this again as two weeks ago I was starting to feel better.  And then whammo...back into the throes of horrid anxiety and depression.  I feel like I have tried everything I know to do...I have seen my therapist, started seeing a hypnotherapist, saw a iridologist, and a naturopath, took copious amounts of supplements...and nothing anyone is doing for me is helping.  The anxiety is brutal...I sometimes get relief if I take an Ativan but I don't want to get hooked on another drug.  I've tried clonidine and while it helps with the anxiety, my blood pressure drops too low and I can't function with the fatigue.  I took Benadryl last night but I feel completely drugged and have even more anxiety when it wears off.  I'm extremely sensitive to meds and even natural stuff.  My iridologist took me off some of the supplements as it's wreaking havoc on my digestive system...no change.  I don't know if it's from the anxiety or discontinuation, but I can hardly eat (it was like this pre-Cymbalta when the anxiety was raging as well) and the lack of food is contributing to no energy and rapid weight loss.  I am seeing a new psychiatrist tomorrow and feeling pretty nervous about it.  I really don't want to go back on a med (especially after everything I've read lately about AD causing depression/anxiety) but I can't live like this either.  I feel like I'm losing my mind...can't think straight, my head is foggy and feel on the verge of a breakdown at times.  I'm considering trying a TCA...does anyone have any experience with them?  I want nothing more than to curl up into the fetal position and cry until this all goes away, but I don't even have the energy to cry right now.  Any suggestions would be welcome!

[lady2882Nancy]

I'm not sure what you mean by a TCA

If  you mean a Tricyclic antidepressant, I am on Amitriptyline and have been for years for chronic/fibro pain and it doesn't do a thing for my anxiety at all. Nothing I have read indicates that they would help with anxiety. There are a number of newer medications that aren't antidepressants at all that can help with anxiety although some of the SSRI antidepressants seem to be the drugs of choice.

Do you know what the cause of your anxiety is? I would think that getting to the root of the problem would make it easier to treat rather than randomly trying drugs which is what the med profession may do.

I hope you get lucky like I did with my Psychiatrist, one who is willing to hear you and start you out slow on any med. Mine will only give me one med at a time and see how if works before adding another that way we know what caused any problems. I am very med sensitive too and started out on very low doses (less than children start on) for some of my meds.

Best of luck to you with your appointment tomorrow

[Pups4Life]

Yes, I meant the tricyclic antidepressants.  I've been doing some reading and there's a lot of positive reviews on trimipramine working for both depression and anxiety.  What meds are you referring to that are good for anxiety that aren't AD?  The root of my anxiety is complex and something I'm working through...but all the work I've done doesn't seem to be helping.  This is very likely still due to coming off cymbalta (it's just over 7 weeks now) but is more than I can handle and I feel pretty defeated by this beast of anxiety and depression right now.  This is worse than I ever felt while on Cymbalta...and yes, I've had moments of considering restarting it, but I don't want this suffering to be in vain.  I have heard that this psychiatrist is very open minded and I will be meeting with a team that includes a naturopath.  What do you do for anxiety, LN?

[lady2882Nancy]

You are right I do see that they are suggesting it is good for anxiety but it also shows that it can cause anxiety. What a choice to have to make.

 

PLEASE don't go back on Cymbalta, there are other SSRI antidepressants you could try first. They put me on Zoloft (sertraline) for my anxiety and that worked for me (of course we are all different) and at least if you get one with a long half life it is easy to stop taking not like Cymbalta withdrawals. A point to note with me is that the Zoloft just confirmed that I was Bipolar and made me manic so could have been the reason I wasn't anxious anymore so fast.

 

Now I have anxiety from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) so was put on Risperdal (risperidone) and that works for me. As for any depression I might have to deal with, I'm afraid that therapy is the only answer for me as we can't risk antidepressants until I stay stable in my moods and not go manic for awhile.

 

I'm sure your team will figure out something for you

 

Take care of you and be well

[fishinghat]

Just some notes I have on non-AD anxiety meds.

 

Alternate Meds for anxiety

 

Benadryl is an antihistamine and as such is not only used for allergies/colds but also as a sleep aide. It does have a mild anxiolytic effect. Your body does build up tolerance to it after a few weeks.

Buspar is a weak anti-anxiety medication. No withdrawal or tolerance issues. Dosage should be kept low if taking a ssri and/or snri.

Clonidine is a classic bp med BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha antagonist which means it stimulated alpha adrenaline synapses. These synapses are located in the frontal lobes of the brain and are used to control the amount of adrenaline our body produces. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a person get to sleep and stay a sleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little daytime drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it ( one or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos. Nadolol, propranolol and atenolol are similar drugs in the same family. These have no withdrawal but your blood pressure may spike for a couple weeks if you cold turkey.

Benzos like Ativan, Xanax and valium. The Ativan is the most effective against anxiety but is also the most addictive. If you are only on it a few months then coming off isn't too bad. There is also Xanax and valium. These are weaker benzos than Ativan also also less addictive.

Lastly, hydroxyzine. It is very effective against anxiety in most people but many get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal and it also can lower blood pressure some but that usually goes away with time.

[Pups4Life]

Well, I walked out with a list of drugs to consider trying, a prescription for Luvox at a very small dose and Buspar.  Anyone tried Luvox?  Not sure what I think of the doc, but that's not the point.   She mentioned the possibility of trying ECT which threw me into a sobbing mess of tears.  I know I'm in rough shape and I'm scared about the place I'm in, but that was the last thing I needed to hear.  Needless to say, I walked out feeling overwhelmed and confused....and afraid.  She believes the depression is a result of the raging anxiety, but right now I can't tell which is worse.  On one hand she agreed that this was likely withdrawal but then changed that later to say that after being off C for 7 weeks, this is likely regression.  Damn.  I don't care at this point what it is, I just want out.  So, I will give the Buspar and Luvox a try (she did ask me to start with just one...I haven't decided which one to start first...probably Luvox as it will target both depression and anxiety).  If any of you are praying folks, I could use some right now as I'm at the brink and feeling pretty awful.  Thanks!

[gail]

Hi Pups,

Can't tell you what to do, can only say that progress is not linear. Praying for you, as you can see, that makes three of us and probably more. Hang on tight!

[lady2882Nancy]

Hi Pups

I was just doing some checking on Luvox and see that it is another SSRI and has a short half life of only 15.6 hours which makes me leary. There are write ups on Luvox withdrawals that I found concerning as well. (I wish I could remember how to paste a link to an article on here but I don't seem to be able to)

Several of the sites suggest that it is a tough drug to get off of.

One site is                drugdetox.org/druginfo/luvox.php

and the other is        mental healthdaily.com/2014/11/02/luvox-fluvoxamine-withdrawal-symptoms/

Both of these sites talk about having to taper off slowly.

I know how hard decisions like this are because you don't want to take something else but you can't manage the way you are. Definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Buspar on the other hand is easily stopped but they both will take some time to see if they work for you.

 

Take care of you and be well

[fishinghat]

Lady Nancy hit it right. A tough drug to stop with a serious withdrawal by all accounts.

[Pups4Life]

Gosh, I didn't even look into that.  The psychiatrist recommended it because of it's good anit-anxiety properties and because, according to her, it's much easier to withdraw from than most others.  She did acknowledge that Cymbalta is horrible to withdraw from.  I did some reading on BusPar and many are saying it did nothing for them.  I started the Luvox last night, at a very small dose.  I am so very weary and can't continue this way.  The anxiety is more than I can handle and I feel like I've hit rock bottom.  I'm not sleeping much (other than when I take sleep aids), can hardly eat and am wracked with anxiety and negative, disturbing thoughts all day.  I wake up each morning with overwhelming dread of having to face yet another day...this happened while on Cymbalta, but is worse now.  This isn't living and I don't know how else to get through this.  Other than Prozac, does anyone have any other suggestions for AD that are easier to withdraw from?  

[fishinghat]

P4L

 

Been on buspar for 12 years. It is a very weak antianxiety medicine. It does a good job of generating a 'good' attitude. Given the low side effects and easy to come off of it is a no brainer.

 

The three easiest SSRI to come off of are Prozac, Zoloft and Lexapro. They take 4 to 8 weeks to fully kick in.

[Pups4Life]

The psychiatrist was happy to write me a prescription for BusPar and when I asked how well it worked, she said "it doesn't....it's only a placebo affect".  She basically said most drugs are placebo...if you believe they work they will, if you don't, they won't.  She wanted me to take a new SNRI (can't remember the name) and I refuse to take anything from that family ever again, nor do I want to take a brand new drug.   FH...how long did it take for the buspar to take effect?  I have ativan and clonazepam but I'm reluctant to use them much due to them being so habit forming, and also, they both make me feel so zombie like and cause more depression.  I really, really don't know what to do.  I never imagined the anxiety would get this bad coming off Cymbalta and I would feel so horrible.  I have no motivation or energy to do anything, can't think clearly and everything is overwhelming....my thoughts go to some pretty scary places.  My stomach is ALWAYS in knots and feel like I've got adrenaline coursing through my body 24/7.  What happened to my life and the strong, sane person I was 2 1/2 years ago???

[fishinghat]

The buspar slowly kicked in over 3 weeks. May I ask what dosage the dr gave you? I agree with you about the two benzos. I am now in month 13 of weaning off Ativan and am only 27% off of it. I am weaning very slowly though so that I have very few withdrawal symptoms.

 

I think your life was left back where I left mine yeaqrs ago. lol 

[Pups4Life]

She started me on 5mg twice/day.  I don't think I can wait 3 weeks for a weak drug that has a high chance of not working.  I think I have to take my chances and continue with the Luvox.  Because it's a tablet, it'll make weaning off of it a bit easier, at least I hope!

[fishinghat]

The 10 mg of Buspar is a normal dose. I understand your cconcern over time and getting some releif. If you ever decide to wean off the Luvox let us know and we will try to help in anyway we can. Keep us posted on how well the Lovox helps you. This is how we leaarn and can try and help others.

[Pups4Life]

I'm just curious.  So much of what I've read on here indicates that most people go through horrendous anxiety as a result of discontinuing.  I know there are so many levels and faces of anxiety.  For me, anxiety was the reason I went on Cymbalta.  I was at my wits end, could not handle being on my own (spent time at friends' or at my sisters), couldn't eat or sleep and ended up leaving my job.  I'd tried a few SSRIs but nothing helped.  I felt like a 5 year old child as I couldn't cope with much.  Looking back, Cymbalta did help somewhat with the anxiety, but at the cost of causing depression and a whole host of other stuff.  (Yes, I have moments of reconsidering going back on...but won't).  How severe is the anxiety others are experiencing?  I feel much like I did pre-Cymbalta so I'm just not sure if it's the old anxiety rearing it's ugly head or is part of discontinuation.  I'm not sure I'll ever know, but is it this bad for others?  Truthfully, I've been feeling rather suicidal lately (I have support in place and know it's not the answer) and the anxiety causes so many physical symptoms....churning stomach, inability to eat, extreme fatigue, shivers, shakes, weakness, trembling, vision problems, tingling and overwhelming fear and sense of impending doom.  It feels like there's no end in sight and at times I wonder how I'll ever function in this world without medication.  Sigh...sorry if that's too heavy.  Just need a little outlet to vent.

[gail]

Pups,

How severe is the anxiety others are experiencing?

I can only speak for myself. Went on the C for the same reasons as you. Anxiety and depressive moods. Five months only.The C made it worse, no relief at all.

So to your question, severe enough to ask God to come and get me! It got better by week 12 or so. Wish I knew about Benadryl then. Severe enough to double the benzos. After one year off, tapered the benzos by more than half.

Fear, impending doom, I know about this. I really understand what you are going through. Some recover and others don't and have to go on something else. I didn't make it. Maybe because I am older. It does not mean you won't by the way.

I gave it a full seven months. By then, I knew that something had to be done. Trial and error with meds.

I know that this is not encouraging, but it is the reality for some of us.

I sympathize with you, this is a rough patch and I hope you make it without any other meds, if not, well you do what you have to do, so be it!

Prayers for you Pups, for strength and hope and guidance!♥

[Pups4Life]

I have complete admiration for you to do this for 7 months!! I'm on 7 weeks and this afternoon I considered going to Emerg. I was soo agitated, anxious, crying and feeling like I was about to lose my mind...there's a feeling I can't quite describe and wouldn't wish on my worst enemy! Took some Ativan and it took an hour or so to calm down. Really? All this from Cymbalta? I never imagined I could feel this close to a complete breakdown. I'm feeling so much shame for being in this place...for leaning so hard on others and behaving in ways that are so unlike me. Gail, I too have begged God to end it many many times lately....but especially today. Did some research with my sister today and instead of Luvox I'm going to start trimipramine. Seems to be a bit faster acting and reading many good reviews on it.

[TryinginFL]

Pups,

 

I am so sorry that you are in this terrible place.  I was there, just like you, and it took about 5 months for the anxiety to attack in a way that I felt "frozen".  I could not seem to make any decisions, hated myself and my life and thought it would never end, but never wanted to go back on the crap.  I never had anxiety in my life until this miserable withdrawal and it lasted for a good 2 months.  I took/take Alprazolam (Xanax) and at the worst time was taking 3mg/day.  I have cut that in half now but still seem to need it.  This, too, could be a placebo as I have been on it for several years, and it doesn't matter as it still works for me. I still have little motivation and feel guilty about "wasting time", but that's the way my life is right now.

 

I have now been off the poison for almost 14 months and I'm sure am older than you, but still am not where I would like to be.  I feel sad and cry often - I don't know if this will ever end, but I pray that someday I will be able to control this.  Everything that you are experiencing has been felt by us here and there is no need for you to feel any shame.  You did not choose this and you were told, just like all of us, that this was a wonderful drug that would help you - all I can say is I want it off the market.  Too many have been through this and worse - it is inconceivable to me that it is still out there.

 

I also have very poor concentration and seem unable to read, which I used to love.  That started when I went on this horrible stuff and I am still in the same place regarding what used to be one of my favorite hobbies.

 

All I can say is please try to hang in there - life will get better even as it feels hopeless at this point.  We're rooting for you and please continue to keep us posted!  We're always here for you!

 

Hugs and prayers,

Liz

[Bethhalffull]

I have also been off Cymbalta for over a year. I didn't suffer with anxiety prior to ADs, so I attribute it all to withdrawal. I was on Prozac, Paxil, Cymbalta for more than 25 years so how can I guess who I would be without them? I have been told that anxiety often comes with age...

My continuing problems have been uncontrollable emotions: crying and raging. High anxiety. Reluctance to leave the house. Inability to do much of anything but watch Netflix and Hulu and read. I know there are steps I can take to help myself, but day after day I don't do any of it.

I have recently started taking a bunch of supplements under the "guidance" of a doctor who is definitly more mentally unstable than I have ever been. I also think he is trying to sell people youth and beauty and happiness with high doses of supplements plus hormone replacement therapy, diet pills, anti depressants and benzos. Twenty six medications prescribed all at once. I rejected the diet pills (tenuate), antidepressant (Lexapro), bentos (Xanax and klonopine). I am trying a subset of the supplements. They are some I was looking into, but I wouldn't have tried these doses without some guidance from a doctor who has experience with them. I also started modafinal. I had a supply that was prescribed for me when I was still on cymbalta and complained about a lack of energy. I didn't take it then. I mentioned it to this doctor and threw it into the mix ("Oh we like modafinal".)

This doctor has some of my money. I will use him to monitor the impact of the medication until it runs out and then get away from him as fast as I can.

So for about three weeks I have been on a bunch of supplements and modafinal. My hope is that the supplements and modafinal will give me enough energy to implement the behavioral changes that can get my life back on the positive side.

So far I am doing well. Definitly more productive than in the past months. I will try the hormone replacement therapy too. I didn't want to start it all at once (duh..just in case) but I am tolerating what I am doing so far. I apparently have some serious osteoporotic changes.

I don't know how modafinal works. It is often prescribed for sleep disorders. Is any of this actually "working" or is it hope that is helping me? I'll never know.

[Bethhalffull]

Found good detail about modafinal. Doesn't tell me if it presents a danger to me or not. But I don't intend to stay on it very long.
http://www.modafinil.com

[fishinghat]

Hello Bethhalffull, welcome to the site.

 

I am a little surprised at your dr giving you modafinal. It is a stimulant used to treat sleepiness disease like narcolepsy. It's most common side effect is anxiety (which is understandable with a stimulant).

[lady2882Nancy]

Modafinil is rated high for abuse and dependence so I searched and found information that it would need to be tapered off.

 

Conditions in which Modafinil should not be taken include liver problems, kidney problems, heart problems or high blood pressure. Also shouldn't be taken if there is a history of mental or mood problems (depression, mania or psychosis); suicidal thoughts; alcohol or drug abuse or dependency.

 

Also it shows that there are a large number of drug interactions 5 major (one of which is SNRI's) and 186 moderate and that all prescription and non-prescription drugs, supplements (including vitamins) and herbal supplements should be reviewed. The list of meds that if affects  their effectiveness is too long for this forum and again needs to be reviewed.

 

Typical of these type of drugs there are forums where some had only minor problems tapering off and others had to do a very slow taper depending mostly it seems on the length of time on the drug and the size of the dose or med sensitivity of the individual.

 

I think this would be a go with caution if considering this drug and many of us would opt to avoid.

 

The chance of developing Stevens-Johnson Syndrome alone would cause me to avoid it as I already had the start of that from another med.

 

Any comments?

 

Take care of you and be well

[Bethhalffull]

The shrink who originally prescribed modafinil gave it to me for low energy while I was on 120 mg of cymbalta. This doctor added it to a list of two dozen supplements, tenuate, Lexapro, Xanax and klonopin. I am not taking any of the last four, unbeknownst to him. So much for medical review.

I have been taking this for about three weeks. The good news is my anxiety is reduced. I can't say why, of course because I am on a whole mess of supplements and we humans are way too complicated to accurately analyze these things. I am taking a half dose of the modafinil. When I first tried it a few years ago I took a whole dose and ran around Costco chatting up all the customers and buying presents for people I hardly knew. Probably as close to manic as I will ever experience.

Side effects of all this stuff have been minimal. I have suffered with loose bowels since I went off cynbalta. That may be a little worse. I have had some insomnia, interrupted sleep, but that is not new either. I am making some modifications to improve my sleep.

Apparently modafinil is popular among some folks who use it like speed (amphetamines) to stay awake and/or study. What I think I am getting from it is relief from the lethargy or emotional paralysis that has accompanied my emotional instability and anxiety, while I implement life changes that will restore balance to my brain.

Is this possible/realistic? Don't know. I am hopeful. Perhaps the hopefulness is the most powerful medication of all.

I will keep y'all informed of my progress. Perhaps I should change my screen name to guinea pig.

[fishinghat]

Possible and realistic Beth. It is a wakefulness drug and should help with the lethergy.