16 replies to this topic

[brzghoff]

I bit the bullet and started taking 5-HTP yesterday evening. 100 mg time release. I am not expecting any results at all for at least two weeks, I know for some folks it can be upwards of 90 days. 

 

within 2 hours i was feeling a little light headed and tense - almost "amped out"… which is kind of how it is when you first start any anti-depressant. I also know that side effects can kick in very quickly compared to the actual benefits of the drug. my anxiety actually started to pick up again a little later - and then would go in and out in waves but totally tolerable - very light. i went to bed and slept better than i have in some time (without benedryl that is) but still only got about 6 hours. when i woke up i felt the normal anxiety that many of us do first thing. but once up and around i have felt more normal than i have in several weeks. just all at once out of nowhere. 

 

how is this possible? i would think placebo effect - but i wasn't anticipating any results yet at all. think its just coincidence and its just me working through my anxiety?

[fishinghat]

Hi brzg

 

I remember in my later stages of withdrawal the same thing would happen to me. When I felt bad I felt like it would last for ever and when I felt better I would feel great. This would change every hour or every several hours. No obvious reason. By the way I was not on 5-HTP.

[lady2882Nancy]

Hey brzghoff

 

This is the same thing that happened to me when I gave in and took a low dose of Zoloft. In two days the old me was back BUT please go with caution as for me I didn't stay at that level for very long and things got very scary in a few short weeks with some personality changes and emotions that were completely foreign to me. It did help with my anxiety levels but I had a lot of anger issues so I had to stop the antidepressants entirely.

A real downer as due to that crappy Cymbalta I now suffer from chronic depression whereas I only went on Cymbalta for chronic pain. Go figure.

 

Take care of you and be well

[brzghoff]

thanks for the feedback! i suspect that you folks figured it out anyway, but to clarify, that first evening, i first i felt great after a couple hours, it was only then that the uneasiness came back, then great, then uneasy, back and forth. just as dr. hat referenced as his general experience in late withdrawal (although without taking 5-htp). however i consider myself not to be in "withdrawal" per se (latter stages or otherwise) as i am 17 months off the C. anxiety has really been the only lingering symptom after 6 months off. no matter what triggered it, the negative thinking that was established during withdrawal became a habit, exclusive of the withdrawal. hence, my focus on practicing good "cognitive hygiene". that's why i was wondering if it was the 5-htp working well in advance as expected or just me having a good day "anyway".

 

my positive experience continues today other than the mild , very mild, uneasiness i feel when i wake up around 5:30.  i lay around in bed idly dozing off and on until about 7:30. by then its gone. i saw my therapist yesterday, he said heck, don't analyze it, enjoy it! he is great at pointing out the obvious under my nose that i often miss. the positive experience continues today - and i have been busy this morning accomplishing a lot before noon! two loads of laundry and deep cleaning the kitchen cabinets and pantry. and no - it wasn't at the insistence/expectation of my husband - all my initiative. tomorrow we take off up north for a month and i like to return to a clean house! even before i started up on the 5-htp we were getting a long much better. therapy rocks!

 

LadyNancy, point well taken! i appreciate the heads up. i have no expectations since the 5-htp is a new experience for me. i know i must be vigilant and rational and take it day by day. i took zoloft years ago, first anti-d i ever took. it never triggered mania in me (although effexor did) it was pretty innocuous, but pooped out after about 6 months. i still take a mood stabilizer, lamotrigine, but really don't think i am bipolar and want to get off it eventually too. i had toyed with the idea of revisiting zoloft if the anxiety didn't go away - even though i've been very resistant - so i compromised with the 5-htp. last year i tried l-tryptopahn and had a paradox reaction the second night i took it (the first night it was great!) so i won't be surprised if something similar occurs. disappointed, maybe.

 

my ultimate goal is to wean off the 5-htp after giving it a good run of 3-6 months unless i have some truly adverse reaction/side effects. i have also read in a few places that its good to give it a rest every 30 days or so for about 2-3 days before resuming. most info i can find on it is anecdotal and have found suggestions it isn't even worth taking until you've been on it for at least 90 days to give it a fair chance. i thought it was something you don't quit abruptly, so maybe a wean down approach prior to the 2-3 day "vacation". i've also found that, like prescription anti-d's, i may have to increase the dosage, but to no more than 300 mg a day total for the regular or 200 mg for the time release.

 

i will keep folks posted about my progress. i also know that the 5-htp experience can vary quite a bit from person to person so just because i may be successful (or not) doesn't mean anyone else's experience would be the same. obviously it has been taken by a lot of people without making headlines - except for the serotonin syndrome potential if taken concurrently with l tryptophan, st john's wort or SSRI/SSNRI's and other prescription anti-d's.

[fishinghat]

Sorry brz, I didn't realize it had been that long...17 mths. Time sure flird when you are having fun!!   lol

[brzghoff]

its been a month since i started taking 5-htp. i am still not sure if i can attribute my improved outlook on 5-htp, placebo, CBT or a combination of all. i've been on a whirlwind adventure since leaving florida almost four weeks ago - having driven over 3000 miles to visit family. i am still at our home in the mountains but we head back south next week. anxiety has been virtually nonexistent. i have been amazingly even-tempered, which is very unusual. i cannot believe it is 5-htp alone but the timing of my recovery leaves me to believe its played a part. september was the worst month in a long time regarding anxiety. ever since starting the 5-htp in early october things have really turned around.

 

last week i took a break from the 5-htp (as is recommended by some) for 4 days after being on it at 100mg a day (time release) for 3 weeks. i felt little change, perhaps a slight "edgyiness" of anxiety. the day i started back up i felt similar to my first day ever on it (the "amped up" feeling) - but i honestly don't know what is causing what. my positive results could all be placebo, but i was never expecting 5-htp to have an effect on me when i started taking it. i was just trying something out of curiosity (and frustration) 

 

i'd love to say that it is a wild success and that everyone should try it - but i can't. sure, my mental health is the best its been in years (cross fingers, knock on wood) but its only been one month. additionally i have been very diligent at applying CBT skills when under stress. its working. 

 

my best guess is that my improvement is due to a combination of the 5-htp and skills learned from my therapist.

 

regardless of how i got here, i'm enjoying it! who knows what tomorrow will bring. 

[fishinghat]

Great report Brz
 
It may be due to the 5htp. I know that quite a few in the past have reported success. I understand that one of the 'problems' with it is that it does not consistently work for everyone. It is sort of hit and miss. I am attaching some info I collected on 5htp incase anyome reading your report is curious about it.
 
I am really glad that you are doing so much better.

5HTP

Warnings on its use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3415362/

Moderate effect of 5HTP on anxiety
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3312397

Side Effects
5-HTP is POSSIBLY SAFE when taking by mouth. However, some people who have taken it have come down with eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS), a serious condition involving extreme muscle tenderness (myalgia) and blood abnormalities (eosinophilia). Some people think EMS might be caused by an accidental ingredient (contaminant) in some 5-HTP products. However, there is not enough scientific evidence to know if EMS is caused by 5-HTP, a contaminant, or some other factor. Until more is known, 5-HTP should be used cautiously.

Other potential side effects of 5-HTP include heartburn, stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, sexual problems, and muscle problems.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: 5-HTP is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth when pregnant or breast-feeding. Avoid using it.

Down syndrome:

There are reports of 5-HTP causing seizures in some people with Down syndrome. In one group studied, 15% of people with Down syndrome receiving long-term 5-HTP treatment experienced seizures.

Interactions
Medications for depression (Antidepressant drugs) interacts with 5-HTP
5-HTP increases a brain chemical called serotonin. Some medications for depression also increase serotonin. Taking 5-HTP along with these medications for depression might increase serotonin too much (seratonin syndrome) cause serious side effects including heart problems, shivering, and anxiety. Do not take 5-HTP if you are taking medications for depression.

Some of these medications for depression include fluoxetine (Prozac), paroxetine (Paxil), sertraline (Zoloft), amitriptyline (Elavil), clomipramine (Anafranil), imipramine (Tofranil), and others.
In addition, there are many other drug interactions with 5htp.

5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) is a chemical that the body makes from tryptophan (an essential amino acid, which you get from food). After tryptophan is converted into 5-HTP, the chemical is then changed into another chemical called serotonin (a neurotransmitter, which relays signals between brain cells). 5-HTP dietary supplements help raise serotonin levels in the brain. Since serotonin helps regulate mood and behavior, 5-HTP may have a positive effect on sleep, mood, anxiety, appetite, and pain sensation.
5-HTP is not found in the foods we eat, although tryptophan is. Eating foods with tryptophan does not increase 5-HTP levels very much, however. As a supplement, 5-HTP is made from the seeds of an African plant called Griffonia simplicifolia.
Source: http://www.umm.edu/a...m#ixzz2Q0VyOr4w

5-hydroxytryptophan has been used in alternative medicine as an aid to relieve the symptoms of anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, insomnia, chronic headaches, premenstrual syndrome, binge-eating related to obesity, attention deficit disorder, and chronic headaches. 5-hydroxytryptophan has also been used in treating certain seizures and symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
Source: http://www.drugs.com/

"Don’t use 5-HTP until more is known. 5-HTP might be UNSAFE."
Source: http://www.webmd.com/ Sois Crapalta but they don't warn us about it

A total of 74 drugs (242 brand and generic names) are known to interact with 5-hydroxytryptophan.
55 major drug interactions
19 moderate drug interactions
For the complete list and to see what the interaction is go to:
http://www.drugs.com...3&generic_only=
1. 5-HTP is changed into serotonin
2. Our body uses tryptophan to make 5-HTP
3. Vitamin B6, vitamin C, folic acid and magnesium are necessary for the metabolization of tryptophan. In addition, tyrosine and phenylalanine compete with tryptophan for absorption.
4. Several dietary, lifestyle, and health factors reduce the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin, including cigarette smoking, high sugar intake, alcohol abuse, excessive consumption of protein, hypoglycemia and diabetes.
5. Depression, anxiety, irritability, impatience, impulsiveness, inability to concentrate, weight gain or unexplained weight loss, slow growth in children, overeating and/or carbohydrate cravings, poor dream recall, and insomnia can all be signs that a person may need more tryptophan.
6. The following foods contain tryptophan: red meat, dairy products, nuts, seeds, legumes, soybeans and soy products, tuna, shellfish, and turkey.
 

[brzghoff]

i know its been a few days, but i just managed to check back in - thanks dr hat for all the info! 

 

i got in a couple of short but strenuous hikes this week - the increased heart rate can trigger some anxious feelings, but all totally manageable. 

[brzghoff]

update: after exhausting my supply of 5-htp - 44 tablets of 100 mg time release, i stopped taking it. my last day was saturday. the anxiety kicked back in a bit but i was able to manage it. i am going to continue not taking it and see how things go. if i start to feel a stronger anxiety i will try taking it again. if it seems fast reacting again i will assume it is better as an as-needed treatment rather than for use as a therapeutic longer term treatment. 

 

on tuesday i had two anxiety inducing experiences. in the morning i went to the dentist for a cleaning and that evening i did a presentation before a non-profit where i volunteer. i was introducing a new process and i knew there would be some push back from the folks who prefer to do things "the way we've always done". i dealt with it all beautifully. felt anxious before and after - but while i was giving the presentation i was cool, calm and collected in spite of the complainers and the cell phones that went off - even though all were asked to put them on mute (i really hate that).

[fishinghat]

Great info brz. That is how we learn on this site is by input like that. Thanks

[brzghoff]

another update: 

 

anxiety's been ratcheting up a bit over the past week i have been employing my standard strategies for dealing with the big "A" - acceptance and "floating" with the feelings rather than fighting them. it definitely helps, but given the additional stresses this time of year, on friday i started taking 5htp again. it doesn't seem to be working as well, however that could be due to all the added stress.

 

i do not like this time of year. its not warm and fuzzy and i find much of the ritual to be disingenuous. many around me seem to be motivated more by tradition than a sincere feeling of peace on earth good will toward men - i don't care how "religious" they are. what makes it tough is the expectation that i fall into place, lockstep with the rest of them. i don't want gifts, i have everything i need. however we decided as a rule several years ago that the family would no longer share gifts that we went out to buy. the decision was made because we don't need "things" and some of us have very little income. we're all adults. the exception is the little ones. its always a joy to spoil them no matter what time of the year. the rule for adults gets broken and i end up with what is referred to "as just a little something" that adds up to several $50 gifts. i enjoy sharing a small gesture with others - such as making candies or baked goods, packaging them up creatively and tying a simple ornament onto the bow. yes, i know, that's their thing not mine. we had an agreement, i am sticking to it and they are not. it is uncomfortable. i recognize that impose the anxiety on myself, others who are faced with similar situations can easily shrug it off as "that's their problem"

 

 

adding to all that is the whole health insurance thing this time of year, open enrollment via the gov't healthcare exchange - its an ongoing struggle to fix all the gov't screw ups that occur every year and stresses me out to the max. its never as simple as just signing up. also making it tough is getting immersed in tax preparation - because of all the hoops that the healthcare exchange make you go through (the exchange is just a puppet of the IRS) i have to get all my tax info together early so i can provide the exchange evidence of the money i DON'T make. that means scanning and backing up all tax receipts for business expenses, figuring out our income and expenses on a monthly basis. i do it as i go along month by month throughout the year but its still a scramble at the end. yes, its ridiculous. if you can't prove you make less money (how do you do that?) then the previous tax year they assume you made the same. we are self employed and earn income from a variety of sources that vary from year to year. there is no one to talk to, you just have to pray that they 1) got your income info 2) read your income info 3) accept it as complete and accurate. i  don't hear from them unless they decide to drop my subsidy and i owe the entire $1300 a month premium for my $6K per person annual deductible policy with the $95 doctor co pay $125 for a specialist. yes you read all of that right. they can and do decide arbitrarily to drop your subsidy, there is no person to talk to you if that happens. to appeal you  must file via US Post all sorts of paper work and there is no one to call to see they got it. when this happened in 2014 they took 3 months to get back to me and another 3 months to offer me a hearing. by then it was 2015 and the point was moot. i couldn't afford my 2014 insurance and had to drop it the last three months of the year. i ended up having to pay the penalty for not being insured. oh, but they eventually came to the conclusion that they screwed up - but by then it was too late. 

 

sorry for going on about this. it hangs over my head all year long. you never know if/when the other shoe will drop.  the worst part is the insurance itself pays for so little. i don't know anyone else who has been put through this. my insurance agent and my tax accountant both scratch their head. they don't get it but they know i've dotted my eyes and crossed my t's. 

 

for those who live below the poverty level, insurance is free. for the rest of us it is unaffordable without a significant subsidy for premiums, deductibles and co-pays, but proving that you need the subsidy is hell. for those of us just above the poverty level, we end up with less disposable income then those below it thanks to mandatory health insurance.

 

so the take away from all this? a lot is stressing me out right now, i went back to taking 5htp along with practicing my anxiety acceptance tools and am managing okay. after the holidays are over i will be interested to see if my anxiety levels go down. if/when they do i will stop the 5htp again and see if they stay down. in the interest in helping others understand the possibilities with using 5htp, i will keep you posted

[fishinghat]

This time of year can certainly be stressful for many if not most. Not just because of the reasons you gave but there is often family expectations and family conflicts that come into play. For those going through the withdrawal I would suggest it is a season to skip. Treat yourself to a quiet holiday and celebrate Christmas/Hannakuh (sp)/Ramadon (sp) in your own way. Next Christmas will be better.

[lady2882Nancy]

Hi brzghoff

You are not alone in not getting the "warm and fuzzy' feelings at this time of year. The only feelings I get are stress and anxiety filled with thoughts that I just hope I can get through it all without a break down. At least I don't have to worry about gifts as my Hubbie's family won't buy gifts unless they know they are going to get a gift in return. This year his older sister has decided that we don't even need to do the Chinese gift exchange that we have been doing for the last 4 years. Yeah as far as I am concerned as it was all a set up with certain people getting a gift bought with them in mind and others getting junk.

My Psychologist tells me to only do as much as I feel capable of doing and that when things become overwhelming that I should find a quiet space and calm myself. If that doesn't work then I should go home if needed and stop worrying about what everyone else is thinking. After all, we have to take care of ourselves and don't have to explain anything to anyone if we don't want to. Each person is ultimately only answerable to themselves.  

 

I really feel for you with your healthcare system in the states and each time I hear about it count my blessings that I live in Canada. Sure we have long waiting times sometimes but we don't have to pay for doctor visits and hospital procedures unless we go to a private center if we can afford to do that. We do have to pay for our drugs unless we are really poor then there is a subsidy for that and seniors have a lot of meds covered with a low co-pay.

 

My sister who lives in the US had a stroke last summer and was in the hospital for a month, I can't imagine how long it will take for them to pay that off and I haven't asked.

 

Take care of you

[fishinghat]

You know guys, one thing I have never heard discussed on this site is generating a conditioned reflex. Our therapists have talked to most of use about many types of calming technique. My therapist asked me to pick out a specific word or phrase to slowly and calmly repeat (out loud at first) while I was practicing one of my calming techniques. I choose the term 'slow down'. Each time I would try to relax, whether it would be controlling heart rate, breathing techniques, etc, I would repeat this phrase over and over.  With time this develops a conditioned reflex to the phrase. Now when I am out in public and feel myself getting overwhelmed I can just close my eyes and repeat the phrase a few times in my mind and it will significantly relax me. It is not perfect but it does help.

[brzghoff]

Your suggestion is a good one. I practice circular breathing while pressing my thumb and forefinger together - i do this on a regular basis whether or not i feel any anxiety - just as a practice. then if i feel anxiety i do the same thing - and if i am not in a situation where practicing a breathing technique is practical (like in conversation) i just press my digits together and that helps to create the reflexive response. not a cure-all, but it helps. 

 

however, lately i've been opting for floating a la claire weekes. here's another good link: http://www.anxietyco...ire-weekes.html

this one ain't easy... it can be scary, but if you keep floating, "letting go" you find that you don't sink.

[lady2882Nancy]

I have a few key phrases that I use depending on the circumstance.

I have PTSD and ambulance sirens can really send me off the deep end, even seeing an ambulance has me tense up, so for that I say "It's not for me" over and over until I relax. It has worked very well.

As I said though I have other phrases for other things. My stresses are pretty specific so it works for me.

"Breathe" works well in most situations.

[gail]

Lady Nancy,

I really enjoyed your phrase "Each person is ultimately only answerable to themselves"

Sounds as though you got a great psychologist.