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About To Act On Plan..little Help?


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#61 gail

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:32 PM

Hi Colin,

Things are looking great for your mom, she is getting her life back it seems!

I would also keep a bit of Seroquel. You are doing a great job here.

Thank you for updating, and for the prayers.

#62 fishinghat

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:44 PM

Thank you Colin. I have added it to  my lithium "library".


#63 crbach

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

Hello Gail.  How is my favorite Canuck?  Looking forward to Spring yet?  Yeah. Mom is getting back to her good old Italian self again, I better be careful..lol.   I'll take the advice on keeping the Seroquel around for the long haul..we'll see if we can actually put it to some good use when the taper of Cymbalta is reactivated.  Thanks for that thought.  I'll be in touch and will "tap" back in as things progress.  I'm hoping and praying things are well for you Gail.  Take care..Colin.


#64 crbach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:19 PM

Hello FH..Hello Gail.  How are things in your neck of the woods?  Quick update here and some questions....

 

Well, we got mom completely off Seroquel (150mg - 0mg) about 10 days ago thinking things were going to be nice and easy..unfortunately, that last 25mg (and I was dropping 25mg every 10-14 days) was a hard hitter..  After being off it for 4 days the tapering/withdrawal side effects were too much for her.  So, we got her right back on the 25mg, everything mellowed out and she's now sleeping again just fine.  We are going to keep her on this at 25mg of Seroquel for the time being and we're going to re-start the taper for the remaining 30mg of Cymbalta.  More than likely, it was for the best for this to happen.  Like Gail said a while ago, we just might want to keep her on a low dosage of Seroquel to get her through the Cymbalta taper...

 

And that is the purpose of this post..I need help figuring her Cymbalta Taper daily dosage for the remaining 30mg.

Remember, I have the generic form of Cymbalta, so bead counting is "out" and using my new digital scale is "in".

 

-Each 30 mg capsule of Cymbalta is different in weight ranging from .221g - .225g. 

I weighed out five 30mg Cymbalta capsules and all five were different in weight.  Bummer..

So average is FULL weight .223g.

 

-Each EMPTY capsule weighs in at .046g.

 

-Taking the average FULL capsule @ .223g and subtracting the EMPTY capsule's weight of .046g I get an average of .177g of medicine(+ fillers).

 

I'm going to be emptying a bunch of capsules into a container in which I can store the medicine without the unnecessary capsules.  Then I will pour the medicine onto the scale for the daily allotted amount.  Then I will pour the weighed amount into new capsules that I've already purchased, and BAMB..new daily dosages brought to you by CRB.  I'm thinking this would be the easiest way to accomplish the daily reductions.

 

Here are my questions. 

At what rate of decrease should I follow?  (and please use my numbers above in your example(s)

 

What do you think of my disbursement theory/technique of measuring out the daily dose? (pouring out a dose)

 

All your thoughts on this are VERY valuable to me so fire at will...

 

Thanks again for being there.. FH and Gail...

 

YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!

 

God Bless.

Colin


#65 fishinghat

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:48 PM

Hi CRB

Your math and concept are great. You are Doing a fine job.

 

Just my opinion but I would think your mother's nerves have to be a bit sensitive right now so I would recommend going slower than normal. I would normally recommend 1% a day but I thing that maybe 0.3% would be better. So if your average pill contains .177 grams of medicine I would remove about 0.0005 grams per day. This is pretty slow but I think it will be easier on her especially what she has been through. What do you think Gail?


#66 crbach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:38 PM

Hey FishingHat. 

 

As usual..much thanks for the reply.   

 

I can't measure that small of an amount on my scale.  To get any kind of a measurement, I would to have to start off at a minimum of .001 grams per day and once I get some sort of measurable daily base total of medicine (4-5 days), then I think I could guess at that .0005 grams per day. 

 

OR..rather than guessing at .0005 grams...what about starting off .001 grams every other day..this way I could actually measure out your suggested .3% taper or .0005 grams per day over a two day period.  Could start off slowly like this, monitor, and build it up to more if after the first 2 weeks things are progressing without incident.

 

Very frustrating trying to measure air..I'm now thinking the bead counters have it made, but of course "they" probably can't stand their daily counts either. Nothing is "easy" with these medications except, I guess....prescribing them!!  :angry: 

 

Your thoughts on this FishingHat....


#67 fishinghat

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:39 AM

"OR..rather than guessing at .0005 grams...what about starting off .001 grams every other day..this way I could actually measure out your suggested .3% taper or .0005 grams per day over a two day period. Could start off slowly like this, monitor, and build it up to more if after the first 2 weeks things are progressing without incident."

Sounds like a good idea.


#68 crbach

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:30 AM

Starting tomorrow..I'm going to begin "baby-stepping" my Mom off this final 30 mg of Cymbalta.

 

I'll keep you posted and thanks for being there/here FishingHat. 

 

Have a restful Sunday..


#69 gail

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:16 PM

Hi Colin,

Nice to see you. The sun is not showing often here, it must have been stuck in Missouri.
As for numbers, fractions, you are better off with FH. It's like Russian to me.

I like your expression, baby stepping for mom. Real real slow. We have two members here taking care of their moms. Baby steps all the way. I admire you both.

Please keep updating Colin, we really appreciate this!

#70 crbach

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:20 PM

Howdy Gail..

 

I like your new avatar.  Sid the ground sloth...what a "nutty" character and Leguizamo has the perfect voice for him.

 

Little to no sun can be a big downer...especially after a long drawn out winter.  The last 3-4 days here it's be reaching up in the mid 80's...I'll box some up and overnight it to you, but just make sure you're wearing your sunglasses when you open the package... :)

 

I hope you're doing well and thanks for keeping in touch with your verbal support and encouragement.  It's greatly appreciated.

 

Praying for the sun to shine on you..

 

God Bless..

 

Colin


#71 gail

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:01 PM

Hello Colin, out of likes,

At last, someone that knows and likes Sid. I am in love with this character. The rare one, I guess. My brother loves Scrat, cute, but never like my Sid!

Up the mid eighties??? A bit to warm for me. But today, I bathed in the sun, must be the one you sent me. Express, for sure! Thank you.

Howdy sounds Texan, like JR many years ago. Nice accent.

Having a rough time at the moment. Care to join us in the word game? That would be nice, we laugh, complain, silly and serious conversations. We are just four or five to participate, a few that you know.

Thanks for your post, real appreciated, continue to update about your mom's baby steps while tapering Cymbalta.

#72 gail

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:04 PM

Oops! Mind support is the topic.

#73 crbach

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:58 PM

Hello Gail...and of course, hello to you FH.

 

First time I've tapped back onto this site since my last reply (late April) and I noticed that you (Gail) tried to reach out to me..and for whatever reason, your messages which are supposed to show up in my email, never made it.  They must have ended up in some spam filter.  So, sorry for the "no reply" on your offer.

 

Things here are as fun as watching paint dry.  After 12 days reducing C at .001g per every other day, things became difficult, and not just with the tapper. 

 

-Unexpected family visits..

-Running out of Ativan...

-New car (less than 200 miles) has the neighbor back into it...

-Mom breaking out with rash (more than likely from Beta Blocker)..

-Doctor(s) not listening...

-Yhady yhady yada..Yhady yhady yada......etc.,etc.,etc..

 

So we just decided to get back to the 30mg of Cymbalta, regain some normalcy and have remained there while trying to fix the rash issue.

 

Which leads me into a question for either one of you, that's if you know anything about beta blockers..(and no worries if you don't, just thought I'd ask).

 

Just switched today from Propranolol to Labetolol..without taper,, with same equivalent dosage, and with doctor's AND pharmacist's approval and support..

 

Q..Will my Mom experience withdrawal from the Propranolol while her body is in the transitioning phases to absorbing the Labetolol???

 

I've done way too much reading and worrying if this switch is going to add to my Mom's suffering with any additional side effects resulting from this switch..and still I can't find anything substantial for an answer...and like usual, not knowing is driving me nuts, and NOT the kind Sid likes :P

 

Thanks again for all your support and my prayers are always extended to you both..and today, I'll add K from the UK (Alone thread) to that list. May God reach down, save and keep her until the returning of His only begotten son..In Jesus name I pray.  Amen.

 

Bye for now..Colin


#74 fishinghat

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:06 PM

Beta blockers are sometimes used to treat anxiety when other meds do not do well. Normally there is no withdrawal when stopping propranolol or when switching to Labetolol from propranolol.
 
Both drugs are primarily used to control beta adrenergic receptors and therefore lower blood pressure. When discontinuing their use it is more comfortable to discontinue over a 2 week period to avoid what is called a rebound effect. This is a sudden increase in blood pressure accompanied by a restlessness. During the switch to Labetolol you should not experience this effect. The transition should be smooth.

 

I was on atenolol twice for anxiety and had no problem coming off over a 2 week period.


#75 crbach

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:40 PM

Understood FH..thanks for the quick reply.

 

I was going to taper her off the beta's, but with a possible allergic reaction happening, doing a 2-3 week taper possibly would make her situation worse, hence the reason for the switch and not the taper/removal.

 

If my Mom is allergic to Propranolol, what are the chances of her being allergic to Labetolol, as well as all beta blockers?

 

Honestly, I hate this beta blocker stuff.  In her case I think they are causing way more issues than what they were prescribed for (hypertension related to anxiety).

 

Hopefully the rash will subside and then I'll be able to taper her off the beta's. 

 

God I hope we made the correct choice.

 

Have a good day FH and much thanks as usual.


#76 fishinghat

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:42 PM

FDA reports 2.7% develop rash with Propranolol and 5.3% for Labetolol. That's not a good sign.

About 4 to 5% report elevated blood pressure and anxiety with the use of propranolol.

FDA reports a 5.8% risk of anxiety and a 11.5% risk for high blood pressure for Labetolol.


#77 crbach

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

Let's hope that by changing things up, her body will be tricked into a no rash situation...maybe also, the allergy is from a sensitivity to the binders and other ingredients that make up the total pill dosage.

 

Live and learn I guess. Anyways..thanks for the added info FH.

 

Here's to praying the Lord arrives sooner than later.

 

God speed FH.!!


#78 gail

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:00 AM

Hi Colin,

Just saying hello! Sid prefers brandy to nuts. That's Scrat.

Thank you for your beautiful prayers. Take care of Mom, she is so lucky to have a son like you! As we are lucky to have our Fishingbrain!

#79 fishinghat

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:36 PM

I like Scrat. A fun character.


#80 gail

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:14 PM

Scrat could be your imaginary pet! He would have a ball in your jujube tree! Digging holes all over the place.

#81 fishinghat

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:40 PM

And....He would be great bbqed!!!!


#82 crbach

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:29 PM

Loving the current thread.. :D

 

I'll settle for a nice t-bone steak, baked potato, corn on the cob, asparagus (all cooked on the bbq)...and a nice tall Indian Pale Ale (IPA) to wash it all down.  :wub:

 

I hope Heaven serves it up like that.... 


#83 bronxbomber

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:59 PM

Hi Colin, your mother is very fortunate to have you. From what I have seen, no doctor would address this issue so meticulously.

Thanks to fishinghat and gail for the clarity and detail in your responses. If it's inappropriate for me to chime in here, please let me know.

I am 64, live in southern California, and just began a reduction from 90 mg. to zero. I have been on 60 mg. for about 3 years, then increased to 90 mg. about one year ago. I am taking the generic (duloxetine). Three days ago I dropped from 90 to 60 mg. So far I feel great. Since I have read that 60 mg. is the maximum effective dose, I'm not certain why my doctor switched me up to 90. If this goes well, I plan to drop to 30 mg. in 2 weeks. This is the first forum which supports this rapid tapering down to 30 mg., so I am very glad to have found you. At 30 mg., I will begin a slow taper to zero. Your suggestions and support will be welcome through this process, and particularly at the 30 > 0 stage.

I have begun keeping a diary, though so far I have nothing to report. I hope it stays that way for the next month, at least. I'll try to check in here every couple of days, to update my progress and to catch up with any suggestions. I will start my own topic the next time I check in.

Colin, am I correct that your Mother had no problems going from 90 to 60, and from 60 to 30? Thanks for your help.

#84 crbach

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:00 PM

Hello BB..or should I say neighbor.?.

 

Welcome to the world where people actually care.  Fishinghat B)  and Gail :P  have been wonderful guides on this journey and without them, I would have lost hope months ago.

 

You are correct in stating that my Mom had no issues going from 90mg-->60mg, as well as no issues reducing from 60mg-->30mg..Thank God!

 

Currently we are getting ready to begin with the remaining 30mg.  Started it for 10 days at a very gradual trapper, but if you read my previous posts, we ran into too many variable (and not just the medicine) to continue onward.  I'll keep this thread updated as Mom and I push through the swamp.

 

I'll do what I can to help so chime in anytime and thanks for the nice comment..!

 

Have a peaceful evening.. :rolleyes: 

 

Praying for us all...Colin.


#85 bronxbomber

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:56 PM

Hi CR. Thanks for your response. Good luck to you and your Mom on the remaining taper.

#86 crbach

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

Fishinghat..I need to scratch your brain in regards to Beta's...it's important.

 

After switching to Labetalol from Propranolol my Mom's rash spread..not to mention ALL the "extra" side effects that were new from Labetalol..so after 3 days of use, we switched back to Propranolol (trusted pharmacists suggested we do so).  All "extra" side effects vanished except for the RASH..spreading and Mom says the itching is unbearable.

 

What is the fastest and safest way to get off beta blockers?  From what I've read there is no "quick" safe way to accomplish this..

 

This is what I started today: 

I cut the daily dose by 30%..and plan to remain here for at least 4 days.

Then I plan to cut the remaining dose by an additional 30% and plan to remain here for at least 4 days.

Then I plan to cut 20% of what is left..remain there for 3-4 days..

Then, if things are stable, get off this stuff..

 

Too fast? I just don't want to have this end up in an emergency situation..either from the rash OR from to quick of a taper.

 

What are your thoughts on this balancing act?   

 

Big thanks from a concerned son.


#87 fishinghat

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:08 PM

That is a good time scheme. Normally the drs suggest a slow taper over 2 weeks so you are on the right path. Now I hope you realize that this is not a withdrawal like Cymbalta. Propanolol controls adrenaline amounts which controls the blood pressure. When you wean you may notice a slight increase in pulse, some heart pounding and some restlessness. Usually a minor inconvenience  but if it bothers her too much just extend your time frame a little. The rash should subside as the dose wears off.


#88 crbach

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

Understood on the expected side effects from a beta taper. 

 

Your input ALWAYS helps to ease my nerves and pushes me to keep marching on------->>>>>>

 

Thanks again for being there Fishinghat.

 

Have a peaceful day ;)


#89 fishinghat

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:37 PM

You too crb. Let us know how it goes.


#90 bronxbomber

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:15 PM

@Crbach, when you said that your mother had no problem going from 90 to 60, did you mean that it had absolutely no effect, or that the effect was minimal?

I ask because I am feeling a bit extra tired, a bit extra achy, and a bit extra thirsty. It's all quite tolerable, and I wouldn't think much of it if I had not just dropped 33% off a drug.

But I'm wondering if she had any noticeable changes at this stage.

Thanks.



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