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Zaps And Pulsing Feeling, Tinnitus When I Move My Eyes Rapidly.


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#1 stlnick77

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 03:45 PM

Hi All,

 

I was put on Cymbalta to help combat a major depressive episode in August 2016.  It's my personal feeling that the episode was most likely an acute depression due to withdrawl from pain medication (Hydrocodone) I had been prescribed for 18 months that I took myself off of because the pain lessened and became bearable without them.  It wasn't until after I had been on Cymbalta for a couple months that i realized depression was a very common side effect of opiate withdrawal.  Unfortunately for me, my family doctor was quick to write me a script for Cymbalta and my first mention of the depression.

 

I'm currently taking 120mb per day.  I was started at 60mg and then increased to 120mg when the depression didn't respond.  While I can happily say I no longer have any issues with depression, I have a hunch the Cymbalta did nothing for it, and it probably naturally resolved as my body reconfigured itself to life without opiates.  While my doctor has told me she recommends simply continuing use of Cymbalta as she doesn't seen a downside to doing so, my life for the last 2 months tells a different story.  If I happen to forget to take my 60mg morning dose of Duloxetine, within HOURS I start to get this really awful feeling when I move my eyes from one thing to another.  As best I can describe it, for about a half second after my eyes move, I get a feeling that's sort of a blend between a zap, dizziness, and loss of eye focus. Within a split second after the feeling hits me, it fades.  Moving my eyes again causes the cycle to repeat itself.  As I go longer throughout the day without getting to my meds, the zaps when I move my eyes become more frequent, and much stronger.  A couple days ago I got to work and about 10am I started feeling the zaps starting to slowly manifest.  What really sucked for me was I forgot my laptop bag when I came to work, which is where my Cymbalta was.  So I knew I'd have to go until 6pm without anything, but I figured since my job is mostly sedentary sitting at a computer I'd be able to get through it.  Boy was I wrong!  By about 2pm the zaps had become so bad that simply moving my eye gaze between small areas of my computer screen would trigger the zap, a much louder ringing in my ears, and intense vertigo -- all of which lasted a brief second and then were gone until the next eye movement.  I got really concerned about the thought of having to drive the 30 mile commute home, so I called my doctor.  She was able to call me in a small refill to a prescription right down the street from my office.  Within about an hour after taking a dose, the zaps were gone!

 

I know, I know.. I'm an idiot for leaving my meds at home.  But, missing a dose of medication by mere hours should not cause my life to turn into sheer chaos where I can barely function physically.  The thought that never forgetting to have Cymbalta with me -- everywhere I go -- for the rest of my life -- has me really wanting to get off this stuff.  However, I'm really worried about how I'll be able to do so given just missing a dose almost makes me puke when I move my eyes!  

 

I've found some other threads online where people have reported this, and where their doctor found it to be "A latent sensory response between the eyes and the vestibular network" due to lack of seratonin in their system.  Ok, fine, that makes perfect sense.  My question is, how the heck do I overcome it?  How long does that symptom last after stopping Cymbalta, or does it remain forever as a permanent reminder of what an awful drug my doctor put me on?  Lastly, are there any supplements or other medications that I can use to combat it while I taper off?

 

Thanks so much everyone, it is amazingly comforting to find this forum and hopefully be able to talk to others who have fought this battle before!

 

-Nick


#2 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

Hi Nick and Welcome!  So happy that you have found us!

 

First, I want to say that this crap drug has a half life of only 12 hrs.  This explains why you miss a dose by only a few hours and are already into cold turkey withdrawal...amazing, but true!

 

I was on 60 mg/day for about 4 1/2 yrs and went off cold turkey!  Man, the hell I went through for the next year was unbelievable...DO NOT DO THIS!!!  I have been off for 3 yrs now and have stuck around to hopefully help others.

 

There is a method called "bead counting" which is a much safer and easier way to get off of this.  It will not happen overnite, unfortunately.  Others here can explain this better if you decide to use this method, which I strongly urge you to do.

 

It seems that you are extremely sensitive to this drug since it barely took any time at all before you were in withdrawal.

 

I suggest that you stay hydrated and begin 5000 mg Vitamin C/day.  There are other supplements that other members will suggest but I did not use any - wish I had!

 

It seems as tho your Dr. does not have much knowledge regarding this stuff and if I might ask, why was your dosage upped to 120mg?  I have changed Drs. 3 times and others more than that - many are definitely asshats.  It is sad when you have to train them.

 

Please come back w/any questions you may have - we are always here for you!!

 

Liz


#3 stlnick77

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:43 PM

Hi Liz,

 

Thanks for all the information. I am ready to do whatever it takes to get myself off Cymbalta, even if it takes a year or more to taper myself off.  When you asked why my dosage was increased, it made me think a bit because I couldn't seem to remember why.  I looked back through my communications with my doctors office.  What happened was either they or my pharmacy changed my medication without me noticing.. for a long time I was being given 30mg capsules, and told to take 2 per day.  Without being notified or noticing it myself, they changed and started giving me 60mg capsules with directions to take 1 per day.  Of course, since I didn't notice, I went for two weeks taking 120mg per day, and then abruptly ran out of meds because I was taking more than the indicated amount of capsules.  When I contacted my doctor (as the panic of sudden withdrawal and being out of meds set in), they called me in a refill at 120mg per day since that's what I'd been taking.  Their note on my chart says "continue taking 120mg per day to avoid adverse symptoms related to discontinuation".

 

So yea, they basically upped me to 120mg just because they knew it would probably prevent me from having symptoms related to going back down to 60mg.  


#4 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 04:49 PM

O my, Nick...

 

 

That sounds like some Dr. negligence there...

 

Others will hop on here soon and be able to give you more info.

 

I can begin by asking you to count the number of little "beads" in a capsule - yep, take it apart and count them!  Please come back with the number - it's a pain, I know!


#5 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:04 PM

Hi Stlnick.

 

Just down the road a piece from you.

 

Liz has got you off to a good start but U do believe she meant 500 mg vit C per day not 5000. In addition 2,000 mg omega 3. These won't cure it but they will help.

 

For bead counting, open a capsule and count the beads. Lets say there is 300 beads inside. Each day you remove 3 beads or less (<1%). So remove 3 beads the first day then 6 the next, etc.  This provides a much slower and manageable withdrawal. If things get bad DON"T try and push through it. It doesn't work and just makes the symptoms worse. When things get bad just go back up 3 or 6 beads and stay at that dose until you feel better. Then start bead counting at a slower speed. I took just over 3 months to wean and still went through hell. If I had it to do over again I would take a year. But each person is different. The eye movement/head swooshing thing usually lasts about a month or so but if you wean slowly it may not be too bad.

 

If thing do get too bad you can talk to your dr about a prescription for clonidine and/or hydroxyzine to help with the withdrawal. Both work well for most people but not all. In addition they do NOT have withdrawal. A little Benadryl also gives relief but it can cause sleepiness and with time looses its effectiveness. Now most drs prescribe a benzo to help the symptoms and for most they work great but they are extremely addictive and have their own nasty withdrawal.

 

I know there is a lot to absorb so don't be afraid to come back and ask questions. We know how bad it can get.


#6 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:07 PM

thanks for correcting my typo, FH! :) 


#7 stlnick77

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:43 PM

Hi FH,

 

Thanks for all that great info.  I will pop a capsule open when I get home from work in a little bit and see how many beads are inside.  

 

It sounds like it may be helpful that I have a script for Xanax?  How would you suggest using that to help with w/d symptoms?  I am prescribed .25mg prn, but I rarely take any.  It's more of a safety net for acute anxiety if/when it strikes.  But I haven't had any panic or anxiety issues for a number of months if not longer.  So I have a couple bottles of xanax at home at my disposal.


#8 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:55 PM

Nick,

 

I am not advising you to do this, but just want to let you know how bad things can get.  I took 2 or 3 mg of Alprazolam (Xanax)/day to fight the horrible anxiety.  I had never had anxiety in my life until then. It was the "freezing" type and I will never forget it.

 

Just so you realize that this can carry its own withdrawal..

 

I don't mean to scare you since we are all different and you may react differently


#9 fishinghat

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

Well Nick, using it as a safety net is the best use. Keep it minimal. If you also rely on some occasional Benadryl this might help limit your use of the Xanax.


#10 stlnick77

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:25 PM

Hey all!  I am home from work and just took about a half hour to count the beads LOL!
 

If I counted correctly, which I'm not at all sure I did EXACTLY, but I tried my best -- the capsule contained 325 beads.  So can you guys help me out with planning my taper as far as amounts to remove each day?  I also had a great conversation with my wife about what to expect because we will have to be a strong team to get through this.  We both work full-time, and we have 2 kids between ages 7-10 who have lots of after school activities.  Meaning, I will have to lean on my wife a lot more than usual to keep the family running while we go through this together.  She is excited about the prospect of me getting off Cymbalta, but she's also aware now of how rough it may get and the signs to watch for if things start getting too bad.

 

So again:

 

(1) 60mg Duloxetine Delayed Release Capsules USP

 

Side 1: TEVA

Side 2: 7544

 

I take 2 of these capsules per day -- typically at 8AM and 8PM.

 

Thanks everyone!


#11 stlnick77

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:48 PM

Oh, one more question...

 

My prescription is setup in a weird way.  One month, I get the 60mg capsules and take 2 per day.  When my script comes due the next month, it's the 30mg capsules and I take 4 per day.  I asked my pharmacist about it and from what I recall, he said it was because in the system my current doctor has me on 60mg x 2, and my previous doctor still has me active on 30mg x 4.  And something about my insurance causes it or makes it cheaper for them to keep doing it that way unless I ask to change it.  I asked if there was a downside to this that would give me a reason to ask for it to be changed and he said not to his knowledge.  But when I picked up my new refill this week (the 30mg x 4 version), I've noticed that even when I don't miss a dose I have been getting some relatively moderate withdrawal symptoms.  Primarily the "swooshing" when I move my eyes from side to side.. which is the biggest side effect I always notice right away if I miss a dose.  I am wondering if the 2 different scripts are perhaps for different formulations or manufacturers that might be causing my body to go into withdrawal like that?


#12 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 10:05 PM

It is strange that you have 2 different prescriptions....why 2 Dr.s?

 

It sounds as tho your body was used to 60mg each dosage...are you now taking 30mg at 4 different times each day?

 

Congratulations on the bead counting!  And having your wife for support is great!

 

I think you meant that you counted the beads in a 60mg, right?  If that is the case, you could start by removing 3 beads the first day, 6 beads the next, etc.  If you feel withdrawal symptoms at any point, just stop until you feel stable and then resume removing the beads where you left off.

 

Hang in there - you can do this!


#13 stlnick77

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:17 AM

It is strange that you have 2 different prescriptions....why 2 Dr.s?

 

It sounds as tho your body was used to 60mg each dosage...are you now taking 30mg at 4 different times each day?

 

Congratulations on the bead counting!  And having your wife for support is great!

 

I think you meant that you counted the beads in a 60mg, right?  If that is the case, you could start by removing 3 beads the first day, 6 beads the next, etc.  If you feel withdrawal symptoms at any point, just stop until you feel stable and then resume removing the beads where you left off.

 

Hang in there - you can do this!

 

Thanks FL!  Yea, I think the prescription weirdness is because my PCP prescribed me initially, and then when I went to pdoc they prescribed it as well.  But, my PCP never cancelled their script so it keeps auto-renewing at my pharmacy.  I think I'll call today and get it fixed so its the same medicine and dose every month.  Much less confusing.


#14 fishinghat

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 09:45 AM

I guess I misunderstood. I took it to mean there was 325 beads in each 60 mg capsule and you take two of those a day making a total of 125. 

 

Confused (but I do that a lot, lol)


#15 stlnick77

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

I guess I misunderstood. I took it to mean there was 325 beads in each 60 mg capsule and you take two of those a day making a total of 125. 

 

Confused (but I do that a lot, lol)

 

You're correct, I opened (1) 60mg capsule.  Inside were 325 beads. I take 2 of those capsules per day.


#16 fishinghat

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:52 PM

You should be able to handle removing 3 beads a day from each capsule. At least that is a good starting point. That is 1% of your total dosage (about). If that turns out to be too fast then slow down. The slower the better. Time and patience.


#17 stlnick77

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 04:12 PM

Cool, I plan to start tomorrow!  So should i remove 3 the first day, 6 the second day, etc?


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 05:04 PM

Sounds good to me! Lets see how things go.


#19 stlnick77

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 11:13 AM

Just wanted to post an update!  I've been taking 3 beads out of my dose each day.  So today I am up to taking 12 out of each dose!  I've had zero side effects so far!  And adding the Omega-3 and Vitamin C to my supplements seems to have helped a lot.  Knock on wood, but I haven't had that weird feeling in my head when I move my eyes around since I started including those supplements!!  I was starting to worry that I'd have to deal with that awful "whooshing" feeling forever.  You guys have seriously made a huge difference in the quality of my life already!  Thank you!!

 

I'll post another update in a week or two or if I run into any setbacks while I continue to titrate down in my dosage.


#20 stlnick77

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 04:57 PM

Posting an update a little sooner that I'd hoped.. Starting yesterday that brain swooshing feeling start coming back, unfortunately.  As of today I'm up to removing 15 beads per capsule.  Today the swooshing is much, much worse than yesterday.  It seems to hit me right now sometimes when I'm not even up and moving around or moving my eyes a lot.  Really, really hoping I can push through without having to up my dose again.  Also, the last 3 days I've been pretty exhausted and lethargic once I got home from work.  A little odd for me, and I know it drives my wife crazy.  Hoping that's temporary too!


#21 fishinghat

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 05:12 PM

This is really a test of endurance. Many people think it is a 2 or 3 week wean but for many it takes months. Time and patience. Stay where you are at until things clear, maybe even a few weeks, Then drop even slower.


#22 stlnick77

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:12 AM

So the dizziness got pretty bad on Saturday morning, bad enough that I went to an urgent care on my wife's advice.  Turns out I have an inner ear infection and a sinus infection.  They put me on some antibiotics to clear that up.  I'm hoping that was playing at least some part in the dizziness.  Yesterday I felt great, and so far today no dizziness yet.  I'm pushing ahead with removing 3 more beads tomorrow if today goes ok.
 

Nick





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