28 replies to this topic

[blanam]

In my last post about weight gain during withdrawal I mentioned that I had been through 9 weeks of hell since tapering down to 5 mg, but that I was feeling better.  Well, I take it all back.  I was feeling better and these past few days have been a nightmare again.  I thought I was on an upward trajectory, with dips of course, but I was feeling positive.  Then I went away for a long weekend with my daughter, got car sick, and freaked out after that.  My anxiety went through the roof, as did my depression.  And today, on the drive back home, I cried the whole way.  I've been crying all day.  I am so depressed.  I can't stand this anymore.

 

I'm thinking maybe I should go back up to 10 or 20mg.  I simply can't stand feeling the way I do.  This is not a quality life I'm living now.  My psychiatrist is not helpful, wanted to put me on Trintelix.  So I should suffer the side effects of getting on another antidepressant while weaning from Cymbalta only to wean off the Tintellix?  I don't know if the depression and anxiety is withdrawal or if this is really who I am or will be.  I took Cymbalta for anxiety, and it helped tremendously.  I was at a place in my life where I felt good and wanted to be off meds.  I now feel worse than I did before taking the meds.  Is this worth it? 

 

How is it that I was doing better with the withdrawal, only to be hit with this horrible mood swing?  Is this what I can expect for the next couple of years?  I'll feel like I'm getting better, and then boom, the depths of despair again?

 

You can probably tell by this note how distressed I am.  I am extremely distressed and I don't know what to do.  I'm down to 12 beads, almost there, but then I've read that it can take up to 2 years before the brain reaches homeostasis.  I can't go through 2 more years of this.  Do I keep going, or do I go back up to 10-20 mgs for now and try again at some other point in time, and go much slower.  I feel so trapped.

 

Please help.

 

Thank you.

[gail]

Hello to you,

Smart thing to go up to 10 or 20mg. Stabilize for the time it takes then go slower with the bead count.

Is it the depression coming back? After 6 or 7 months, I would say yes. But you are not there yet.

Fishinghat, do you think that cross tapering with trintallix!!!!spelling??? Would be ok?

[fishinghat]

I think that she over did it on her trip, the car sickness was a trigger that brought back feelings of the withdrawal, anxiety over feeling bad and she spiraled down from there. Not your fault blanam, you have a life to lead  but I am afraid this is not the last relapse you will probably ever have. It is not uncommon but they usually don't last too long.  I don't know if it is necessary to go back up to 20 mg. I think I would start with a single dose of 5 mg and see how that does. You can always add more if needed.

 

I think the Tintellix would probably be a mistake as there are too many variables. Will it work?, will you have side effects? AND by the time you wait 4 to 6 weeks for it to kick in you will probably be over this spell as well.

 

Just my thoughts.

[nancydear]

I know how terrible you can feel I hope and pray for you and all us. just think of how far you have
come!!!! And daughter's can stress you I know I have one!!

You can do this,take care!

[blanam]

Thank you all so much for your replies.  It just helps to know that someone out there is hearing me and knows what I'm going through.  I feel slightly better today, but still tearful.

 

Fishinghat, when you say go back up to 5 mg and see if it helps, do you mean one dose, or go back up to 5 mg and stay there until I feel better.  Then, presuming I feel better, do I have to start the bead count down from 5 mg?  The hell started for me when I went down from 10 to 5 then to 2.5mg.  I'm confused (of course that's nothing new since my withdrawal).  I can't remember how many beads 5 mg is, but I'm now down to 12 beads.  Any clarification would be helpful.  And I agree with you, I think getting car sick triggered this relapse.  I was at Yosemite.  Super winding roads and lots of people.  Very overstimulating for me, and I've always been one to get easily overstimulated.  Then the guilt of "ruining" my daughter's trip....

 

Thanks again for the support!

[fishinghat]

blanam, I would say if you are at 12 beads go up to 24 beads (one dose only)  and see if you stabilize. If you feel better then continue to drop at 1 bead a day after that. If you don't feel better by the next day then go up another 12 beads (to 36 beads a dose). Keep repeatinmg that 12 bead increase until you get some relief. Please keep me posted. PLEASE! I am trying to minimize the amount you go up in order to minimize repeating any withdrawal.

 

If you need clarification let me know. Some times I make things as clear as mud.  lol

[blanam]

Thanks for the clarification FH!  I feel better today than I did yesterday.  Tearful this morning, but as the day progressed I began to feel better.  Spent a lot of time outside doing yard work and got a pedicure.  I don't feel normal, by any means, but at least I'm not acutely depressed as I was yesterday.  I imagine I'll feel acutely depressed again, but what I'm realizing is that I really can't do anything that is the least bit stressful to me, which these days, is almost everything.  No travel, only socializing with close friends, keeping a low-key schedule.  I can't really handle much.

 

Thank you again for your help.  

[fishinghat]

"but what I'm realizing is that I really can't do anything that is the least bit stressful to me, which these days, is almost everything. No travel, only socializing with close friends, keeping a low-key schedule. I can't really handle much."

 

Exactly. When I was going through this I had no phone calls, no visitors, no social activity at all. Just quiet, work around the house and rest.

[blanam]

It's truly a nightmare isn't it.  So many ups and downs.  The frightening part is not knowing if this is going to be forever or if peace will come some day.

 

This is the first day since Wed. that I didn't wake up crying.  Yay!  I have to remember that when I'm at the depths of despair, that it will pass.  

 

I decided not to go back up a few beads after my first desperate post because I started to feel better the following day and thereafter.  I'm hoping that if I just lay low, I might avoid another relapse.  I really want to give myself a chance to be off these meds and see how I do in time.  I suppose I can always try something else if my anxiety ever gets the better of me again.

 

This site has made a big difference in my ability to cope with the discontinuation symptoms.  Reading other people's stories and getting feedback has been so supportive.

 

Thank you.

[fishinghat]

Those ups and downs will continue but with time they will be less severe and further apart. What always amazed me was when I went through an 'up period' I felt like I was over the withdrawal and it would never return but when I would go through a 'down period' I would feel like it would last forever and I would never recover. Soooo hard to keep your perspective.

'

[memiller77]

I'm new on here and reading your posts have brought me comfort that I'm not alone. I've been on 90mg of Cymbalta for at least five years. I think it stopped being effective about three years ago. I think I had a nervous breakdown and had to retire from my teaching position earlier than I planned. I've lost all motivation to do anything. I'm terribly depressed and fatigued.

I have a new doctor and told him I want off of Cymbalta because it's not working. He lowered my dose to 60mg and added 159mg of Wellbutrin for two weeks. The day down to 30 mg of Cymbalta with the Wellbutrin. My problem is I feel so hopeless that I'll never feel better. My depression has reached suicidal thoughts. Only the thought of what that would do to my family keeps me from it. I'm lucky that I'm retired so I can at least hide at home in my misery. My poor husband does literally everything.

My question is should I just go cold turkey and drop the final30 mg and hope the Wellbutrin takes effect. Maybe it will get it over with more quickly. I just don't know how much longer my body and mind can take this literal hell. Any advice would be appreciated. Especially hope that it will one day get better. I've suffered for three years.

[gail]

Hello Memiller,

Welcome to the forum. We need to know if the way you are feeling now is the same as before Wellbutrin. Is it the same as when you dropped to 60?

Fishinghat will drop in soon, I wish that I could advise you, but I can't. He will.

Look for the good moments hidden between the bad ones.

There is hope, we have all felt like you. It may take a bit of time. When we speak of cymbalta , we are not talking about candies here. Hold on!

[fishinghat]

Welcome memiller

 

Well there is a couple problems here. First of all it takes Wellbutrin 6 to 8 weeks to fully kick in so going cold turkey is not an option right now. The good thing is that Wellbutrin is often  a good choice for depression. I am mostly concerned by your suicidal thoughts. Is your dr aware of this?

 

Also, please realize that the feeling that this will go on forever is a common withdrawal effect. Even when things start to get better there will be feelings like that for a while followed by feelings (on the good days) that you will never feel bad again. Certainly a strange effect that the withdrawal has.

 

Just so you are aware the standard dosage for Wellbutrin is 300 mg a day. So you can expect at some point the dr will ask you to drop the remaining 30 mg and go to the full 300 mg on the Wellbutrin. During this time it will be a tough ride but typically you will start seeing some improvement around the 3rd or 4th week of the change over (This process is called cross-tapering). While you ride this out just try to be kind to yourself. Staying a little active can help keep your mind off of things too. Read a book, watch TV, etc to keep your mind active and engaged.

 

Be sure and tell your dr about suicidal thoughts. Call and leave a message today. Please keep us informed and feel free to come back and just vent or ask more questions. We are here for you. You are not alone. We have been where you are at.

[blanam]

I agree with FH.  Don't go cold turkey, especially since it's going to take 4-6 weeks for the Wellbutrin to kick in.  I second being kind to yourself.  Lay low if you need to, distract yourself, pamper yourself, get exercise and eat a clean diet.  A great book is Kelly Brogan's "A Mind Of Your Own".  

 

I've been tapering off Cymbalta for 2 years, bead counting, because I'm extremely sensitive to this drug.  I didn't start feeling horrible symptoms until I reached 5mg in May.  I have been struggling ever since and I've got 11 beads to go now.  I've experienced many downs, including suidical ideation.  When I'm in a downward/depressed spiral I call on people who understand to remind me that it will pass.  There's no perspective when you're depressed.  You are lucky that you're not working so you can focus on whatever you need to get through this.  I took me a long time to believe that I would get better.  I now believe I will eventually be OK.  It just takes time.

 

Also, I want to acknowledge all of us who are discontinuing Cymbalta, that we are all warriors.  It takes incredible courage to do this, and I truly believe that going through discontinuation is a transformative experience.

 

My thoughts go out to you.

[memiller77]

Thank you so much everyone. It's now been almost four weeks since I've started the lowering of Cymbalta and switching to Welbutrin. I'm feeling a little breakthrough. Certainly not as the energetic person I once was. I'm hoping that I can regain my interest in life.

Reading other's experiences has given me hope.

[fishinghat]

Good, please keep us posted as that is how we learn.

 

Don't overdo things though. Time and patience.

[fishinghat]

Memiller
 
See this new post I just made. You will probably find it interesting.

https://www.cymbalta...-the-same-time/

[Raven72]

Welcome friend,

I am in full agreement of not going coks turkey. My main reason is that I have done it and do not recommend it. Not only did I do it with what I lovingly call Sinbalta; I did it with Paxil, Statterra amd Premarin. The last 2 were not my choice as I financially couldn't continue them. These were not fun times for me but I made it through, with the help of the fine people on this site. I have recently returned after a 2-3 month hiatus as a completely prescription medication free woman. If I can help it I will never go back to them again. I take OTC need to help. The biggest help is Fish Oil and I take 3 a day. Freedom is out there it is just a long journey, that you don't have to make alone. As of April 1, 2017 I have been clean from Sinbalta. I clean from all prescription medication for 2 months now. Still have rough days but nothing compared to the past. Hang I there and we are here for you.

Raven

[TryinginFL]

Still no computer:-(
Great post Raven!!

[blanam]

Hello All,

 

I'm writing an update from my original post in this thread.  I had another horrible day yesterday, 3 days after tapering 1 bead.  I'm now at 8 beads.  These are days where I can't stop crying and my perspective is definitely skewed toward the negative.  The last day like this was when I posted on 7/26.  I'm more aware that these episodes are temporary, but I still fear that I will always feel this way and that Cymbalta has permanently damaged my brain.

 

So my question is this:  I want off this stuff completely so that my brain has a chance to start healing.  Is it unreasonable to go down 1 bead a day with the remaining 8.  If I did this, I would be off in a week.  My concern is that I won't stop crying for a week and this is problematic because I have to work.  I've been tapering 1 bead every 3-4 days for the past couple of weeks.  I don't know why I had such a terrible day yesterday as it's been almost a month since the last "meltdown".

 

I know I've asked this before, but I need the reassurance.  Does one really recover from Cymbalta withdrawal?  Is it possible to feel good again?  I"m been suffering horribly for 3 months now since I got down to 5 mg.  I've had a few OK days, but even those days are far removed from how I used to feel.  I have completely lost my lightheartedness and playfulness.  I have no sense of being grounded, no peace, no calm.

 

Thank you all for any input.  Such a godsend to have this site.

[fishinghat]

My sympathy Blanam

 

Unluckily those last few beads are usually the hardest to deal with. I know you want off this stuff but there is no sense in suffering anymore than necessary. Stay where you are at or even go back up one bead until things stabilize. If you tapered 1 bead every 3 days and feel this bad you can only imagine if you went ahead and did 1 bead a day for eight days. If it were me I would go back up one bead and stay there until stabile. Drop whenever you feel like you can handle it. No sooner. It takes some people a month or more to get through these last few  beads. Unluckily I think you will be one of them.

 

The good news is that it does get better. It will be a very slow improvement and it will up and down with the ups a little longer each time and the downs a little shorter. Where you are at right now is the toughest part. Be very patient. Once you are off the med your nerves need to regain their stability and it can take them 1 or 2 years to fully heal so take your time. This is not a race and getting off the med is not the end of the line. It will become a new beginning though. Yes, there are success stories and soon you will be one of them.

[blanam]

Thank you so much FH!  Your words are very reassuring.  I've been crying non-stop for two days now.  Even my daughter told me to stay on 8 for a week.  I've never felt so emotionally out of control in my life as I have these past months.  When I'm in the throws of it, I think I'm having a nervous breakdown and I can't see any way out.  The depression is just unbearable.  To know that people actually do recover their lives and spirit is very reassuring.  I actually took a screen shot of your note and put it on my desk top to refer to when I'm despairing.  I need to be reminded that there is hope for the future.

 

Thank you!

[fishinghat]

When I went through the up and down period of my withdrawal one of the things that amazed me was that when I felt bad I knew it would never get better BUT when I felt good  I knew I would never feel bad again. All things come to he(or she) who waits.

[blanam]

Exactly!  

 

FH:  Do you know why the last beads are the hardest?  Is there any research at all on the reasons for such horrible symptoms?  I've only read various general comments, but nothing detailed or informative.

 

Thanks.

[fishinghat]

I agree blanam, nothing specific. From the symptoms we have suffered I have to believe that serotonin is at a low level, at least originally as that would account for the brain zaps, stomach issues, and dizziness. It would also explain why many get relief from tryptophan or 5htp as they are precursors to serotonin. The drop in norepinephrine however would not explain the heartpounding, skip beats, anxiety, sweats, etc. Those are more symptoms of high norepinephrine and epinephrine. Low serotonin would lower bp and high norepinephrine and epinephrine would raise blood pressure. It would be interesting to see what bp does with different stages of withdrawal symptoms. Unluckily that would be hard to determine as most of us take other meds that effect bp.

 

As far as the last few beads hitting so hard ....I have a theory on that. Excess Cymbalta is stored in the liver and fat tissue. As you wean the blood levels begin to drop and the extra Cymbalta starts being released back into the blood stream to off set the loss of Cymbalta and the withdrawal is minimized. Once a person gets down to the last few mg it seems likely that you would be running out of 'extra' Cymbalta in your liver and fat by then. At that point the lack of Cymbalta hits a person hard. We have had a percentage of our members that have had difficult times from the very beginning of weaning. I suspect that those people are in better shape, leaner and have less stored Cymbalta in the liver and fat.

 

Now all that theory will not buy you a cup of coffee but there it is and we probably will never know what the true answers are.

[BZJ]

Hey Blanam
Now I'm new here and quite new In 'the wean off, of your anti depressant med.' world.
But based on your first replies in this thread, I was going to recommend you to maybe check out Kelly Brogans book ' a mind of your own'.
So I was quite surprised to see that later in the entries you referred to her book ( recommending it to another) and from that I'm guessing you have read it?
But dosnt she specifically talk about, as I understand it, people needing to taper off with no more than 25% and that she even have some of her patients/ clients to only taper off with 10% of the med. at a time (yes some can get away with 50%, but maybe that is more in the beginning, and more the exception than the rule) and that one has to stay on that lower level for 1-2 weeks some times even a month, and maybe sometimes even smaller increments tapering can be needed, however besides that, what I also took away from it is that one has to (,and try to, accept to) stay on the downtapered level for a week, ATLEAST, and if feeling bad - not taper further down, yet, Before -2-3-4 weeks after...

Can I ask, with hopefully no offence, how come you choose to taper with 50% when you feel SO bad and tapering can be done slower, than what you have done so far? esp. When you have gone to bead counting anyway. Then it could be a lighter removal of 1(-2) bead/s pr 1-4 weeks depending on how you feel, and to strive to 'feel as your normal' as much as possible.
I do understand the immediate urge to want to be free and off medication, but why not try to accept a slower and then hopefully have a process that's more 'peaceful' and with fewer'hickups'.
Another Question for you, if ok?
Just out of curiosity, did you do and stay on her ( Kelly Brogans) recommended 'lifestyle alterations' for the 2 recommended months before tapering or did you taper right away?
Best wishes for a better and easier recovery for you, and all of us.
Thanks in advance.

[fishinghat]

Welcome BZJ

 

I would ditto most of your thoughts and add that maybe an even slower wean if possible.

[blanam]

Thank you FH for your theories on why the taper is so bad toward the end.  I've been doing better since my last post and am weaning 1 bead/week as long as I feel OK to do so.  I weaned last Tuesday, and it's 3 days later and I'm not depressed.

 

I also started acupuncture today to see if it will help balance my system.  Will keep you all posted on that.

[blanam]

Hello BZJ:

 

Thank you for your comments.  I am slowing my taper down to 1 bead/week.  I'm now down to 7 beads.  I think I was tapering too fast at 1 bead every 3-4 days and that led up to the 4 days of crying, in addition to my daughter going back to college after being home all summer.

 

I think Kelly Brogan's book is so important to read.  And she has a great website and blog on there.  I took her advice with the supplements.  But I did not follow her diet.  I eat a very clean, healthy diet though, and I think it's so important to put only real food in your body.  I eat primarily fruits, vegetables, and lean protein, but no meat anymore.  I have craved protein more than usual since I got down to 5mg and started having horrible withdrawal symptoms.  I don't eat many grains and I stay away from gluten because it's bad for your brain.  Another great book:  Grain Brain by David Perlmutter.  I also exercise and meditate.

 

I've actually been tapering for two years.  I was at 60mg and I went down by 5 mg/month.  I had some challenged along the way, but nothing that didn't remit within 2 weeks.  Then I hit 5mg and all hell broke loose.  I had no idea!  So most of the summer sucked, but I'm definitely better than I was in May/June.

 

Hope I answered your questions.

 

Take care.