[MaureenV]

Hi everybody,


just wondering what everybody else's experience was regarding their blood pressure and this drug.


For me it may be completely unrelated to prescription drugs, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else had a problem.

In short, about three years ago, after 20 years of severe blood pressure problems, I had an adrenal gland removed - completely solving the problem,and in fact ending up with low blood pressure and orthostatic hypotension due to low sodium (the other adrenal took a while to pick up).

My blood pressure has not just been perfect since then, but consistently perfect, even when on Lexapro and HRT.

Several months ago I changed HRT and changed to Cymbalta a few months later.

Now, suddenly, my blood pressure over the past few weeks has been consistently 160/100 - absolutely trivial compared with the readings from years ago. I haven't got, and have never had, stress related blood pressure. (it's not difficult to work out if you've been dealing with it for a long time.)

Thanks in advance for any info.


Maureen.

[MaureenV]

p.s.

Thanks again Debbie for that link to the list of withdrawal symptoms.

Hypertension is listed among them.

If my blood pressure settles down after being off Cymbalta for a while I'll be personally capable of wringing the necks of the individuals responsible.

(... but don't quote me on that when my day in court comes ... )


Maureen

[nursedeborah]

Hi Maurene,
It just blows me away at all the withdrawl symptoms!!!! When I first read the entir list I just
couldn't believe what I was reading!!! The mental suff really got to me as that's where I had the
most trouble on this drug, and coming off it.

I still feel like I just have no control over my life, no feelings, can't do what I want to do, and I
just moved into a new place that I hae wanted for years, and it's taking away from that excitement.

I go to see the doctor today, and I am thinking about going on Prozac, and just stopping the Cymbalta
faster whiile on the Cymbalta. You can take them together, and that way I won't feel the withdrawls as
badly.

I just don't feel any different, or I should say I feel the same as when I was on the full dose right now.

I even went down 10 more beads this am, as I wanted to see if I would get some withdrawl symptoms
like I did in the start of all of this. I liked the energy I was getting, but don't feel like I have any at all.

I am so glad you checked out the site, and it was useful, I know it helps me to keep checking it, maybe
that's what I need to do right now.

Debbie

[mysticcherokee]

My blood pressure has always been a very low normal. While withdrawing, I could FEEL it all over the charts. Up/down, anything but normal. Couple times it was checked it ran HIGH. I had tachchardia while on and major big time withdrawing from dependance on this stuff. I still have irregular heartbeat and its on my list of things to do, get it checked. Nothing has ever been wrong with my heart and Im angry today. Brain hurts and heart problems, first time in my life, since Cymbalta enetered.Course I didnt take it right while on, but that there is another problem, FORGETFULNESS! Being menopausal isnt helping anything im sure. makes none of this any less reprehensible, and I feel this drug has shortened MY life expectancy. thought I was going to die in withdrawal. Yes, im pretty steamed. I think(thought so while withdrawing too) there is a direct relationship between blood pressure and sinus pressure, ear probs, equilibrium and nausea. Ive STILL got head pressure. Would this make my brain hurt, Im wondering. Mystic

[MaureenV]

Hi Mystic,


It was me who started this thread; my blood pressure went up earlier during the withdrawal period, but until three years ago I had 20 years of severely high blood pressure (since resolved with an adrenal removal), and am one of the very rare few who are 'cured' of this and go on to not need blood pressure drugs, but my blood vessels are a bit dodgy after the 20 years, so no doubt I'm more susceptible than others to fluctuations, but as this was the first episode of high blood pressure in the three years, it's pretty clear it was the Cymbalta.

High blood pressure is not generally considered to cause some of the things you mentioned. Doesn't mean they're not in your case, but it's not known as the silent killer for nothing. Most have felt nausea and giddiness with withdrawal. Sometimes I could 'feel' high blood pressure (from the way my head felt) but just as often I was wrong (I have my own machine). The only sure fire symptom I had was being able to 'see' my pulse in my eyes. It can certainly give you headaches - bad ones - (I went through a few years of migraines) but my headaches frequently didn't correspond to when my BP was high.

The effects on your body will be different, too, depending on whether it's the systolic, diastolic or both which are a problem.



Have you got a machine?

When you say it's high, what do you mean by high?


keep in touch, Maureen.

[mysticcherokee]

Hi maureen, When I say high i mean when I had it checked it was considerably higher than it normally runs. True, I was a tad upset a time or so when I had it checked, but it still ran low when Ive been upset before. 112/80 is normal for me. Very low, yes.
The best way I can describe the highs I felt and lows were the lows were almost the opposite of the highs. The highs during w/d have caused my eyes to feel bugged out, admittedly. The sinus pressure and the veins feeling as if they want to pop from blood coursing thru, particularly back of neck.The heart irregularity was noticably trying to beat out of my chest and it seemed there was an extra beat at times(I know there wasnt, just felt that way) It was ALL irregular, Ive no history of any of this, except some tachycardia while actaullly well into the cymbalta. My brain hurts and to tell you the truth when I apply pressure, like a pillow over the head, pressing down, it feels a bit better. Weird. Im not supposed to be aware of my brain, but I am. I guess when youve a constant for so long and there is drastic change, its felt. I did feel blood pressure changes,nightss when the barometric pressure changes it was awful! But no ive no machine. Id be only too happy to not be aware of the chest thumping from time to time, but alas it seems I am. Hope all is well with you and that these things smooth out for you, permanently. For all, even. I only know my body and I hope those reading understand that there are so many probs with this drug, because most of it is a VERY individual thing, although a lot seem to correlate. I would hope that nobody assumes their damage is permanent till they know for themselves. As it is Im lucky to get my Doc to say the "word" Cymbalta, much less to defer to it when questioned, or anything it seems. Definitive information must be rationed, when it comes to we the taakers and them the prscribers, or so it would seem.I tried to get a definitive answer from my doctor on certain things two weeks ago, to be told "youre already worried enough, and see a shrink, tho its not because i think you are crazy." Thanks for your post and your interest. Hope it all goes away. Mystic

[MaureenV]

Hi Mystic,


yep, my blood pressure problems disappeared completely and utterly the day I had an adrenal gland removed. It contained a benign tumour which was pumping out mind boggling amounts of the hormone that tells your body to retain sodium. (When I say mind boggling, when the average person's level of aldosterone is 900, mine was 56,000.)

Unfortunately at the same time as I first developed high blood pressure at 35 (I was always 120/70 at doctor's appt) it was suddenly up to 180/120. Within the next six months I also developed ulcerative colitis (an inflammation of the bowel), and large but painless bruises and severe pain (I was taking lge doses of coedine) up and down my arms and legs and regular migraines. Sadly, despite my best efforts to have them looked at together, they were all treated separately, so you can imagine the number of specialists I saw. I now know that they WERE all connected (even one which doctors never acknowledged was connected disappeared the day the adrenal came out). Because the remaining adrenal can be a bit slack on the uptake I then ended up with orthostatic hypotension so bad I had to have stuff like tilt table tests to make sure the BP over the years had not done too much damage.

I'm one of the very rare, and very lucky people who've been 'cured' of this condition without having to take BP medication any more - but the chances of that continuing for the rest of my life are still slim given the (minor) damage that's been done. That's why anything that affects my blood pressure is taken fairly seriously.

Sorry, this is about you; just thought I'd explain why,, when I don't really have high BP any more, I know about it.


I have to say I strongly, strongly recommend you invest in a little machine which checks your blood pressure. They're about $150, but the big advantage is you remove the 'white coat' element of the measurement. You can also then check your BP when you're feeling great, when you're feeling awful and see if there's a connection. You can also check for orthostatic hypotension, which makes you feel like cr*p and is when your systolic BP drops more than about 20 points when you stand up.

This is just me, and my weird experience, but I have to honestly say I might have been feeling like you and had normal blood pressure. I'd go for ages not checking it, feeling perfectly o.k., only to casually check it sometime to find it had gone through the roof again. (As in 230/140).

That's why I think the machine's a good idea. If it IS blood pressure causing those symptoms, you'll find out soon enough. And I really think you need to know.

Was it you who mentioned menopause symptoms?

I started HRT a year ago after trying to struggle through for two years.


cheers, Maureen.

[MaureenV]

My BP was fine the first month ON cymbalta, it went up when I was trying to come off it; it's now dropped again. The stress of the withdrawal would be enough to make anyone's blood pressure go up, but at that point I was actually feeling quite good, because I'd settled into a plan with Cymbalta withdrawal and most of the effects had gone away, so doesn't look to good for C. on that count.


Interesting you talk about blood sugars. When I spoke to my GP yesterday and we talked about how much weight I had put on with Lexapro (by eating!), I said that it was damn near impossible to diet because if I cut down, I would end up feeling faint and sick like I hadn't eaten for two days (not that this miss piggy allows that to happen). I don't normally feel like that when I diet, and in fact have been eating around 1200 calories on a weekday for the past two weeks with no problem at all.

She gave me an explanation which is too complicated for me to remember, because I know nothing about that side of things, but agreed that (in a roundabout way) that is what could have been happening - that Lexapro was having some effect.

By the way, completely out of left field with this one: I had above normal blood sugars over the years of blood pressure problems (one of the many things which were not considered connected) and discovered myself that low potassium (which I had chronically) can result in high blood sugar readings. Don't know whether they're FALSE high readings, or genuine high readings. One of the multitude of concerns I've been able to dispense with since saying farewell to my darling little adrenal.
How long since you've had potassium checked??

How are you feeling, madtabby? Feeling more comfortable with the slower taper than you were yesterday?


cheers, Maureen.

[Junior]

On an unrelated but interesting note:

About the time I was coming off Lexapro I went to the Blook Bank to donate. When they did the pin prick haemoglobin test, I was low - 10.7 They took it again on the other hand... same result. Tried to get blood from one 'inside elbow' and it wouldn't flow! so they ended up taking it from the other one.. which is the one I usually use for donating. Sent it off to the blood bank.. said my iron was low. Strange I thought, because I'd been anaemic before and I didn't FEEL that way this time.
Anyhow, about 4-5 weeks later, when I was withdrawing from Cymbalta, my GP ordered another blood test. This one came back normal - although they recommended further iron studies be done. So we repeated the test along with the iron studies. All normal.

My GP and I don't know what happened. I can only think that it must have been the Lexapro. Weird eh?

Junior

[MaureenV]

HI Madtabby,


Glad to hear you're continuing with the tapering.

Prob a good idea with the blood sugars thing. I'm a perfect example of how other things can affect readings. All the niggling things which disappeared when my adrenal stuff was resolved was amazing. A few things which had never occurred to me were connected. Some noot major, but had been ongoing for years, then just gone for good. Until Cymbalta withdrawal that is, when many of them reared their head for the first time in four years.

(Although I honestly think mine is combined Lexapro/Cymbalta withdrawal, given Lexapro can give the same symptoms; I suspect mine were just 'stalled' by going on to Cymbalta for a few months.)

I read an interesting article, only on Wiki, but made sense to me, about why it's important for professionals to look at 'Anti-d withdrawal syndrome' and (traditional) addiction differently. Although the symptoms and consequences are the same, the solution couldn't be more different, because with ours, the TREATMENT is to go back on the drug and withdraw very slowly. If I'd done that from the beginning I'd have had no problem, given I was only coming from 30mg anyway, whereas with traditional addiction that method would generally not work.

cheers, Maureen.

[MaureenV]

Sorry folks, I'm so excited I have to share this.


After having accepted that it may be my HRT aggravating my blood pressure, OR, as expected my slightly damaged blood vessels finally decided to object, I'm delighted to report that it's plunged, so can only assume it was ALL due to Cymbalta withdrawal.

(I changed HRT about the same time as I changed from Lexapro to Cymbalta).

>160/100 is nothing to get alarmed about, but it's certainly not blood pressure that can continue without treatment (not without long term consquences anyway). They weren't isolated readings, either - that's been the general result in September and October. Last Cymbalta was a week ago. Even though I was only on a low dose in the last few weeks (took three weeks going from 5mg to 1mg) it didn't improve until I'd been completely off for several days.

Now my systolic is low (around 115) and Diastolic is high normal (about 85), which is how it had been for the last few years.

So take heart those of you experiencing blood pressure problems while still tapering off Cymbalta. I hope that for you, too, it's only temporary.

ANOTHER SERIOUS ISSUE FOR ELI LILLY TO CONSIDER, HMMMMMMM?


Maureen.

[Junior]

Great news Maureen. Ab-sol-ute-ly fan-tab-ulous.

Now I can open that bottle of French Champagne. Would you like a glass madame????

=D=D=D

[MaureenV]

Thanks Junior,


I'll take a rain check on that French Champers!


I had a few too many last night. Not French champagne though, sadly, just Yellowglen, but nice enough.


Funnily enough (although not funny really) had a call from my sister - she's in hosptial after collapsing overnight and has very low blood pressure. She had a systolic of 80 when the ambulance arrived. Now up to 100 at least.

All of my siblings have normal - low blood pressure, as did I before my pesky little adrenal had a party at my expense, and I think that genetic tendency has benefited me post adrenal removal.


Can't compete with my syster, but celebratin' anyway.


Maureen.

[nursedeborah]

Maureene,
I am sorry I some how missed this post. How is your sister doing now?
I remember when I had my heart attack, and my BP was like 80/56,
and they were all freaked out. Thank God my daughter knew my
baseline, because when it went up to 168/90, I knew I was in deep
trouble, and she was able to tell them what my BP usually was.

Did anyone tell them at the hospital that they do run low in your
family? It is a good thing for them to know, becuse had my
daughter not back me up, they would not have thought anything
about my blood pressure being 168/90.

I know we see things different about this issue, but that's ok
everything else goes along just fine.


Love,
Debbie

[MaureenV]

Hi Debbie,


thanks for that.

My sister's fine. It's not so much that our family have LOW blood pressure - I think I gave the wrong impression. More that of the six offspring, none have blood pressure problems - none even have HIGH normal, and given the extent of blood pressure problems in the community, that's probably unusual. Mine was never more than 120/70 before the hyperaldosteronism.

My sister also has a daughter with lots of allergies, so they cook most of their own food from scratch, using little salt, which is probably not the best for her. Also, she's trying to lose about 5kg slowly, and has been substituting her normal breakfast of toast and vegemite (VERY australian, and VERY salty) with fruit, so perhaps a combination of things.

We actually agree more than you probably think on Blood pressure. I couldn't agree more that readings of (say) 160/100 (which is what I was getting for a few months recently) is not sustainable. What we DON"T agree on, is how urgent it is.

I can appreciate that with having had heart problems you see it more as an urgent thing, but anything under 170/110 is still only mildly elevated, and wouldn't be treated as an emergency by anyone. You'd be told to go back to your doctor and get your dose adjusted.

I've looked at gazillions of bits of info and can see that there's quite a lot of consensus about blood pressure. Even turning up with 180/120, I was sent for an 'urgent' appointment with a specialist - but not to the emergency department.

When my blood pressure was out of control one time, and was about 220/130, I was at the specialist, and he said 'I'll tell you in about 30 seconds whether or not you're going into hospital tonight', checked my eyes, heart etc and saw no sign of damage so it was left for the drugs to try to do their work within days, rather than the hours that would be the case otherwise.

I've only had one instance of 'hypertensive emergency' and that's the day my daughter was born (by elective caesar) and afterwards my blood pressure rose from 150/80 to get to 240/130 before it started coming down again. THAT's when it's an emergency, when it goes up really, really quickly to a very high reading.

I tend to see blood pressure readings as more along the line of cholesterol - higher readings do damage, but mainly over the long term - the majority of strokes are narrowed blood vessels and blood clots, the minority are burst blood vessels.

A few weeks of mildly elevated blood pressure is nothing to be alarmed about - my GP wasn't - but we were BOTH concerned about what to do IF it continued.

That's all I mean - with others who've posted here about their BP, theirs has also dropped back down, so hopefully it's just that ***** Cymbalta again.

So you see we do actually agree that 160/100 is a problem, it's just the degree we disagree on. :)


Speaking of degrees, stinking hot here at the moment - prob the hottest first half of Nov since 1902! Nearly 100 F nearly every day for the next week and it's not even summer!

Maureen.

Exam week for the poor year 12s too.

[nursedeborah]

MaureenV said:

Hi Debbie,


thanks for that.

My sister's fine. It's not so much that our family have LOW blood pressure - I think I gave the wrong impression. More that of the six offspring, none have blood pressure problems - none even have HIGH normal, and given the extent of blood pressure problems in the community, that's probably unusual. Mine was never more than 120/70 before the hyperaldosteronism.

My sister also has a daughter with lots of allergies, so they cook most of their own food from scratch, using little salt, which is probably not the best for her. Also, she's trying to lose about 5kg slowly, and has been substituting her normal breakfast of toast and vegemite (VERY australian, and VERY salty) with fruit, so perhaps a combination of things.

We actually agree more than you probably think on Blood pressure. I couldn't agree more that readings of (say) 160/100 (which is what I was getting for a few months recently) is not sustainable. What we DON"T agree on, is how urgent it is.

I can appreciate that with having had heart problems you see it more as an urgent thing, but anything under 170/110 is still only mildly elevated, and wouldn't be treated as an emergency by anyone. You'd be told to go back to your doctor and get your dose adjusted.

Maureene,
Here in the US if one would present to the ER with this BP, they would not be told to just go home. We would try to get it down as much as we could, but
if it was still not doing anything, we would admit to the CCU. We are just different here about it than where you live I guess, but I did this for too many years,
and don't use my own personal issues when I am being a nurse. It was just what we were taught that's all.



I've looked at gazillions of bits of info and can see that there's quite a lot of consensus about blood pressure. Even turning up with 180/120, I was sent for an 'urgent' appointment with a specialist - but not to the emergency department.

See here again, this was have landed you in the hospital, in the CCU unit, didn't your head hurt too?




When my blood pressure was out of control one time, and was about 220/130, I was at the specialist, and he said 'I'll tell you in about 30 seconds whether or not you're going into hospital tonight', checked my eyes, heart etc and saw no sign of damage so it was left for the drugs to try to do their work within days, rather than the hours that would be the case otherwise.


Here again you would just be slapped with some o2, and sent to CCU

I've only had one instance of 'hypertensive emergency' and that's the day my daughter was born (by elective caesar) and afterwards my blood pressure rose from 150/80 to get to 240/130 before it started coming down again. THAT's when it's an emergency, when it goes up really, really quickly to a very high reading.

I tend to see blood pressure readings as more along the line of cholesterol - higher readings do damage, but mainly over the long term - the majority of strokes are narrowed blood vessels and blood clots, the minority are burst blood vessels.

A few weeks of mildly elevated blood pressure is nothing to be alarmed about - my GP wasn't - but we were BOTH concerned about what to do IF it continued.

I just have a differnt idea as to what is a mildly elevated BP is, it is just the way I was taugh all those years in school, and then doing it for a living.
Maybe it's because it's just seen different where we live? I don't know.



That's all I mean - with others who've posted here about their BP, theirs has also dropped back down, so hopefully it's just that ***** Cymbalta again.
Yes I do think that some people that come here with no heart problems, amd have their BP go up that's it's due to the Cymbalta, or if a person has a
history of hypertension comes here, and theirs goes up that it's due to the Cymbalta. I also believe that they should have it checked, as the ones that
already do have a problem with their BP this being a disease in itself, that it could be more dangerous for them, and that they really need to watch it
and that they should be seen. Yes they do come down sometimes, and other's don't. I just think it needs to be checked out.



So you see we do actually agree that 160/100 is a problem, it's just the degree we disagree on. :)
Your right.

Speaking of degrees, stinking hot here at the moment - prob the hottest first half of Nov since 1902! Nearly 100 F nearly every day for the next week and it's not even summer

I so hate the heat!!



Maureen.

Exam week for the poor year 12s too.

What is this? lol

Debbie

[Junior]

Debbie

Year 12 is the last year of secondary school. I believe in the US you call it a High School Diploma? Here, well each state has their own system (I believe this is going to be changed). Here in Victoria it's VCE -Victorian Certificate of Education and is done over yrs 11 and 12. Candidates have to sit exams both mid year and at the end of the year (remembering our summer is Dec, Jan and Feb). For those in year 12, it is their final round of exams.

Cheers
Junior

[nursedeborah]

junior,
That's so cool, I forget that it's now summer for you, and from what I
hear very hot there right now.

We are just now going into our fall season, and school has just started
for all of our kids. They go from Sept-June, and then have the other
months off for the summer. Where I do live is by the beach, so I am
spared all the heat, and can always just go to the beach to cool off!

I love the ocean, always have. It is where I feel so calm, and peaceful,
and especially when I snorkle or scuba dive, wow! I so miss all of that.

Debbie

[MaureenV]

Nah, not even summer yet, Debbie, that's why we're whinging. :))

It's still only Spring, and if the rest of the week continues the way it's expected to do, we'll have had the hottest first half of November since 1902. Our summer is Dec - Feb. The stinking hot weather (which we don't get every summer) is usually mid Jan - end Feb. That's when the awful bushfires were earlier this year that took a few hundred lives. I'm sure that being in California you can identify with bushfires! Our states even share & swap firefighters each year if it's bad.



Maureen.

[nursedeborah]

Maureene,
I absolutley love what you now have at the bottom of your entries! You do come
up with some of the greaest one!

I finally get it about what you guys are talking about! We do get that here too,
and it's usually in the dead of winter, Crhristams Day, after you have just
gotten all these beautiful sweaters, coats, and boots. Then we all have to wait
to wear them for about 3 more months, and then 3 months later you still keep
them around even id Spring in coming, because we just have been having
crazy weather here for years now.

Oh yes we do have those awful fires here, and then after that, it's the mud slides,
and all the homes falling down the hill sides, or the Ocean Front homes falling into
the sea.

These people just keep doing it year after year, and would never think about
moving, but then again they are the very, very , very rich, and also famous
who live in the Malibu are where it happens the worst.

No thinks, I will takee good old Long Beach Calif, we even made it through
the worst earth quake here in this city back in 1942, and all the others,
all the buildings in the downtown are were built just for that reason, as
were most of all the rentals!!!

Debbie