[NagNancyB]

Hi all, I am down to 20mg from 60mg in about 4 weeks. I also have fibromyalgia, the 'worst case' my dr has ever seen. My fibro is debilitating. Coming off Cymbalta I've seen a spike in fibro issues, including brain fog. At times my fog is so intense that I can't complete a sentence. I walk from one side of the room to the other and don't know what I'm doing there. I had registered here as NagNancy and can't remember my password, nor can I seem to retrieve it, so I had to create a new registration. This the first time I've been off of anti-anxiety drugs in many years... Cymbalta-2 years, Lexapro 7 years, I can't remember what before that. I'm lost. The Cymbalta symptoms have brought me to my knees and now this. I'm floating between going off the depression cliff into that hole that many of us are so familiar with and the hell of all these physical symptoms. Don't know what to do next; how to help myself. Will it get better? Do I have any hope of crawling out of this in one piece? My next Dr appt is one week away.

I have to add that I do have brief periods when the sweats (and everything else) lets up, the fog lifts and my outlook isn't that bad. So the big question for me now is how well I'll handle the lingering side effects and will that heavy depression leave on its own? How's this for a kicker... today I found a tick on me from one of my walks with my husband (when I'm feeling up to it). I had to just laugh. Now What? Oh yeah, it has that red bulls-eye rash around it. Of Course it does. I have to either laugh or have a meltdown. I'm too tired right now for a meltdown, maybe later. Just don't ask me to go for a walk. ;)

OK, I keep coming back and adding to this post. I just fell up my cellar steps. yup. up the steps. Ow. Ow. OW. Just a few bruises, a few tears and then... more chuckling. Either I'm cracking up or my brain just can't take any more. I think I'm cracking up.

[nursedeborah]

Nancy,
It's Debbie, I had just writen to you on one of your old posts, as I was wonder what had happened to you.
Just from all the things your describing, the fog, your memory, well I don't have Fibro, and I lived like that
while on Cymbalta, then add the withdrawl symptoms.

Your not crazy, going insane, and if your lost the list of withdrawl symptoms, here's that site for you so
whenever your having something happening to you, go look and see, and I BET IT'S ON THE LIST!!!

I had over the period of almost 4 years of being on this crap I had all sorts of medical things that I didn't
have. I knew that in my gut, and took the meds, but they didn't get rid of what was going on, also they
just made me either sick, or crazier if they were psych meds. It was not until I got the list, had my first
experience with my doc decreasing my dose in half from 60 mg to 30 mg, and by 6 of was coming unglued
and then some.

Like I said I don't have Fibro, but I am having the same same symptoms that you are! So that's why I think
it's thewithdrawls, and not your Fibro. I could be wrong, but I just wish you would go to that site and read
all the withdrawl symptoms.

http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm

Please let me know how your doing when you can, keep in touch too!!!!

You will make it, and i will walk through this with you!

Debbie

[NagNancyB]

Thanks so much, Debbie, you are an angel. Like I told you in another post yesterday, you are truly a gentle soul. We will get through this hell and be better for it. I will not let a huge pharma company win over my life. The dirty #$$@% know when they have a bad drug and still push it and make obscene amounts of money.

I do have that page of side effects and refer to it often to remind myself that it's not me. I think we'll get through this. We can lean on each other. Thanks for letting me lean on you.

I'll be here for you, too.
in friendship and love, Nancy

[nursedeborah]

Nancy,
So swwet what you say about me, and I wonder sometimes who people are talking about.
I can't believe how much this drug has destroyed everything about me, and all I have had
to go through being on it, and now having to come offf it, and deal with the withdrawls.
Also to have to go on anotherdrug to just make the withdrawls easier, as mine were just
not something I could handle.

I probally have already told you this, but it did such a number on me mentally while I was on
it that the stufff with the withdrawls that happen only made it 10 x's worse, and I just
couldn't function at all.

I am so angry at this frigging drug company for knowing what this drug does, is, and their
still making it, and saying it does not do these things.

Did I also telll you I am starting a petition, and I will let everyone know so they can go to
the site, and sign it. I just want to get something started.

Well your right we can do this, and it's great to have a new friend to do it with.

Take care hope all is well with you.

Love,
Debbie

[NagNancyB]

Debbie,
As soon as you have that petition to sign, I'll be there with bells on!

-Nancy

[Junior]

Debbie

Since going to another forum (as well as this one because I have friends here =D ), I've found that Cymbalta is not the only drug that causes these sorts of problems. I had a hell of a time coming off it, and i'd only been ON it for 19 days as you know, so it's not exactly a great drug either. But, for those of us who have been on either an SSRI or an SNRI for a period of time, which differs for everyone, it can be incredibly hard coming off them. It's got a lot to do with the brain needing to 'rewire' itself.

Now, Drs and the powers that be refuse to call it addiction. They argue that since we don't actually WANT to take the drug that it's not addiction in the true sense. So they call it 'discontinuation syndrome'. However, even though they recognise that it is difficult for SOME people to get off these drugs, I don't think many (if any) acknowledge how long it can actually take. There are people at the other forum who have been doing a very slow taper - from a variety of SSRI's and SNRI's - for a couple of years!!!!

I find myself wondering how much the drug companies actually know (whether they allow their studies to run long enough) and how much they tell the medical profession.

[Junior]

Nancy

Sorry to hear that you're having such a bad time. I can honestly say that I know how you feel! My short term memory has been appalling of late. Somehow I manage to retain important info but I have to concentrate a lot harder than normal to do really basic things like getting the ingredients out to cook something!

60 to 20mg is a huge drop (so I've learned). How long were you on Cymbalta for?

Junior

[nursedeborah]

Barney and Junior,
I don't know where I read it, but the people who did the study for this drug at Lilly,
well tje first girl went into the bathroom on Lilly's property, and hung herself in the
shower. Then there were a couple more women who killed themselves. After that
several left the study!!!

I know that it's hard to get off some of these drugs, and even hard to be on some of them
For me it was Paxil, as it cause the Brain Zaps the entire time I was on it. Then I saw the
show 20/20, and all these people on there were having the same. I really had gotten to the
point that I thought I had just gone over the edge. I do know since that time I have never
been myself again!!!

This one for me is the one that did so much damage to me on it,,and now what you all know
what we are going through to get off it.

Did any of you read that FDA report? They even have a web page for the rep's, and it tells all
about this drug, and how bad it is. So they do know!! Yet they still don't tell the doctor's.


Debbie

Thanks Nancy, I will work on that petition!

[barney59]

Debbie,

I am the one who posted the link to FDA report. I wanted you all to have it to take to your doctors. It validates what we have been telling them. I am also the one who confused everyone with my tirade on CAFAPHARMA thread (sorry!) Between the two, it is obvious that LILLY and their REPS know exactly what this drug is capable of....scary isn't it. Me, day 14 off and unfortunately no let up in withdrawals. Today worse that yesterday. Brain zaps back with vengence.

B

[Junior]

Debbie,

I think Paxil, and to a lesser extent Lexapro, are my main problems. I don't think Cymbalta has had a huge effect since I was only on it for 19 days. I tend to think that I got over the withdrawal in 2 weeks. But... because I then took nothing for 3 weeks, and I'd been on Paxil (we call it Aropax so if say that, I mean Paxil) for over 10 years, I just went ... in a word .. mental! LOL! I was a bit on the manic side for a few days although it did settle quite a bit. But my main problem was that I just could NOT sleep. I was probably averaging 4-5 hours a night. So I went back onto the Paxil. I wasn't prepared to try any other drugs after the bad experiences I'd had with both Lexapro (which made me suicidal) and Cymbalta.

I now know that I AM addicted to SSRI's (probably Paxil mostly) and I'm just hoping that by staying on my original dose of it (40mg) for a few weeks, that I can stabilise. That is what people at the other forum are recommending and what makes the most sense to me. But.. as much as I had been content to stay on medication for the rest of my life (it was wonderful knowing that not only was my anxiety under control, but that I didn't have to fear depression either), I'm now facing the prospect that I may not be able to. A huge thing for me. And if I can't, then I'm going to have to do the very very slow taper that others at the other forum talk about. They get a liquid version of Paxil and drop down 1mg at a time. But I don't think the liquid version is available here. Helpppppppppppppppppppp.

You know, when I think about it, another thing that really bothers me, is that I've always considered myself to be intelligent. In addition (sorry, academia kicking in here ;-p) people have repeatedly told me that I'm very sensible. Even my GP has been comfortable giving me sleeping tablets because he knows I won't abuse them. Remember a week ago when I thought about taking an overdose and just couldn't do it??? So the very idea that I am addicted to a drug really .... I don't know... it's just so wrong. It's not who I am. Dammit, I don't even know how to bloody feel. Grrrrr....Thanks SSRI's and Cymbalta. You've completely fucked (apologies if I offend anyone with this language) up my brain. I can't even feel what I should be able to feel. Great!

Thanks for your continuing support
Junior

[Junior]

madtabby said:

So every junkie that I've met that wants off the drug really isn't addicted? Well, isn't that wonderful, there's almost no addicts living on our streets! Praise the powers that be, we cured a social problem by changing the definition! [/sarcasm]

Spot on. And as I said at another forum - SSRI's / SNRI's (such as Cymbalta) are rapidly becoming a modern-day valium.

Funny thing is, Drs have been giving them to all and sundry because they thought they WEREN'T addictive!

[Junior]

One more thing... I broke a bloody tooth last night. Just what I need :-I

[barney59]

Junior,

Barney here. I feel the same way. I am so angry to think I was addicted to a drug...AND DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT! I am angry at myself, but more angry with Lilly. I have to keep believeing that they will at some point be help accountable for this. I think things are beginning to snowball. Look out Lilly!

B

[Junior]

Barney

At least you can blame Lilly. I can't. Paxil is made by another company! But then, I was the one who chose to stay on it in the first place, so I really can't blame anyone else. In fact, I only found out a few months ago that it is considered (by my GP at least) one of the hardest to come off. I might not have stayed on it so long (over 10 yrs) if I'd known that. All I know is that it worked so well for so long and that I was comfortable with the idea of staying on it forever. Now I'm .. well ..just really challenged... by the whole paradigm (I guess) of drug therapy for mental illness. I had always believed in a combination of drugs and 'talk therapy' .. now I'm not so sure about the drug part. Maybe for the short term only.

Junior

[barney59]

I know I keep talking about Lilly, and it is because of Cymbalta. But it is not just Lilly. I think we all know that most of these drug companies are as culpable as Lilly when it comes to some of their drugs and business practices.

B

[nursedeborah]

Junior,
Don't ever be made at yourself about any of this, we are alll victims!!! How in the heck did we
know that this was the real truth about antidepressants!!!

I never ever believed in meds, and I never had to take them, I just did some really brutal hard
core issues in therapy once a week, and that did it for me. Then years go by, and I end up with
this guy in my life, and all of a sudden I can't sleep so I was put on Trazadone, and the next was
a antidepressant. Right now Idon't even rember the name of it!!! I am guessing it was Paxil.

That one just killed me while I was on it. I got the electrical shocks in my head all the time, I
thought I was going crazy or becomming schizo. Then I found out it was the Paxil so I just
stopped it. I have no memory at all of my withdrawls during that time, I can only remember
I was freaked out, didn't leave my home, it did lot'a of the same things Cymbalta did to me
while I was on it. They are really close as far as getting off, but to me Cymbalta takes the
cake.

I am just like the rest of you, and want my life back. I am praying we all get on the otherside
and there is not permanate damage. Also that it does not take 2 years like someone posted!

Debbie

[Junior]

Hi Debbie

I'm not really mad at anyone because I CHOSE to stay on medication. And I'm certainly not angry at my GP because, as he has said himself, at the time he put me on Aropax there was no evidence that it was addictive. He now believes that it is one of the hardest to get off and that if he'd been starting me on something now, it would be Lexapro. Funnily enough, Aropax agrees with me and Lexapro doesn't! Who would have thought?

If I'm angry at anything - it's the whole process that I've had to endure over the past few months. I guess the drug companies are partially at fault too for not informing Drs better - but then, you never know how a drug is going to affect you until you try it.

I feel now that there is light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, this morning I woke up feeling positive for the first time in, I dunno, at least 3 weeks. I think that is a sign that the higher dose (40mg) of Paxil is beginning to kick in and that I'm beginning to stabilise. Fingers crossed that it's all downhill from here - at least for the next few months. I know I need to stay on this dose for a while and that's what I intend to do.

I hope things continue to improve for you too and I really appreciate the support you've given me over the past few days. I'm normally a very strong person and I tend to bounce back quickly but there are times ... and this has been one of them :S

Junior

[nursedeborah]

junior,
I am so happy to hear the ggod news! I know my doc says the same thing about Paxil, and he is now
at least talking about this may be another one like it too. Finally I am getting through to him.

You don't have to thank me for being there for you, that's what thisis all about, plus I have always
tried to just be me here.

You never did answer my question about my being more coherent? Please tell me what I was like
when I got here, and what the difference is now. I do feel kind humiliated as all along I knew
something was wrong, and I just couldn't get the doc's to hear me!!! It was like being locked in
a box, and no one could hear me, and I just kept calling for help. It's ao awful to know your off,
watch it, feel it, and always think everyone see's it.

So please answer this for me, it will help me very much.

Love,
Debbie

[NagNancyB]

To all of you who replied in the day or so that I wasn't here, I thank you all so much. It just means a lot to have other folks know what you're going through. Earlier this week I felt a bit better, so I started pecking at some of those projects that have been neglected. But peace is fleeting on cymbalta.

My sweats are back, mostly all night long, then I get up in the mornings physicaly sick. Lots of pain. And I'm holding steady on 20 mg until I feel I can continue. Brain fog is intense, I'm retaining fluids big time; gained back almost 10 pounds in 2 days! I'm not even making sense today, I'm sorry.

Barney, thanks for that link to the fda document, I'll go to my doctor this morning with something to show. Oh, I hope I can keep my pills down this am.

Thank you all for being there.
-Nancy

[nursedeborah]

Nancy,
Sounds like we are in the same boat. I was doing just fine, and then hit this wall
of withdrawl symptoms, and fell like I am right back where i started. I have not even
taken a bath for 2 days or washed my hair. I just feel that same kind of depression
that I got being on it full dose, also very freaked out, and really tired.

I am reallly sorry this is happening to you as well. Like they say we will have this
happen. I was on day 9 of my decrease, and it usually doesn't get me until about
day 6 so I guess I just was not thinking. I do pretty good at first after the decrease
then for me it takes over 6 days for me to get really bad off.

Hope that you get some rrelief soon, me too.

Always here to support you!

Love,
Debbie

[Junior]

nursedeborah said:

junior,
I am so happy to hear the ggod news! I know my doc says the same thing about Paxil, and he is now
at least talking about this may be another one like it too. Finally I am getting through to him.

You don't have to thank me for being there for you, that's what thisis all about, plus I have always
tried to just be me here.

You never did answer my question about my being more coherent? Please tell me what I was like
when I got here, and what the difference is now. I do feel kind humiliated as all along I knew
something was wrong, and I just couldn't get the doc's to hear me!!! It was like being locked in
a box, and no one could hear me, and I just kept calling for help. It's ao awful to know your off,
watch it, feel it, and always think everyone see's it.

So please answer this for me, it will help me very much.

Love,
Debbie

Hi Debbie

Yeah, sorry about not answering your question. I hadn't forgotten but hadn't had time (and mental energy!) to find your post so that I could reply to it! Umm...how to explain it.... It's like your thoughts are more connected and your mood is more even. Your language is more flowing. You just seem more 'together' all round. Does that make sense?

I understand the feeling of being 'locked in a box'. I was looking for a quick solution and just couldn't find one! It wasn't until I was forced to take that day off work (after only being there for a week) and felt so down, so anxious, so confused, that I needed to talk to HR about it - that I began to sort myself out. Talking to someone in real life (no offence to anyone here, including yourself, as you have all been wonderful) really helped. It was out in the open and I could now begin to look for a strategy. I still have a way to go. I now think my anxiety and insomnia is related to Lexapro withdrawal as the dose of Aropax (Paxil) that I'm on is the one I was on back in Feb and it appears to be working equally as well, if not better. I know that these drugs all work slightly differently.. so.. that's my theory anyway.

You might want to check out the other forum I told you about. There are some people there who are very knowledgeable about SSRI/SNRI addiction and withdrawal - not only symptoms, etc., but also what actually goes on in the brain.

Take care
Junior

[nursedeborah]

Junior,
Thanks for the reply. I know what it's like when your going through tough time, as I am doing
that now.

I do feel a bit better today, even if my money problem is up in the air. Here is where I just have
to work my program, and trust that the Universe will take care of it all. It's just going through all
of this then add something like this the mind really gets carried away.

That makes me feel so much better knowing that I am more clear, because I was aware in the depths
of the drug full strength that I was not able to talk righ, and it was so frustrating for me.

Well here's to a better day for all of us,Love,
Debbie

[Junior]

Debbie

I said to my GP the other day (in relation to being back on the higher dose of Paxil) that I'm improving a little bit each day. I don't know whether I'm addicted to Aropax or just SSRI's in general but it seems that my brain is happier with the reinstatement of the Aropax.

For what it's worth, you are actually one step ahead of me because you are already in the process of weaning off these drugs. I have yet to do that.

Keep looking forward. Each day is a new day :)
Junior

[nursedeborah]

Junior,
I am not really ahead of you as I started the Prozac!!! So now have that one to deal with.
I do have to admitt that I am feeling better today, but thought this would never pass.

It was awful for 6 days!!! My mood was so unstable! Just felt like I was not going to make
it at ALL!!

So happy I do have you guys here for support. I only wish this nightmare would end, but I
am seeing what your talking about just taking any of these meds. I really had not been
the same since I took my first antidepressant.

Her is to a better day!

Debbie

[barney59]

nursedeborah,

I feel the same way. I am not the same person. These AD drugs really mess with your brain and who you are. As I said in another post, I see my family slowly creeping away. They don't like who I am now either. I don't blame them. I just hope the person I once was emerges soon...

B

[MaureenV]

Hi Debbie,


Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better.


Now don't be too impatient to go the next drop o.k.? I KNOW what it feels like to want to be rid of this stuff, but remember you can actually get off this without going through this again if you go more slowly. Why drop a whole 5mg?


take care, Maureen.

[nursedeborah]

Barney,
I havn't been the same now that I think of the way I just went cold turkey off Paxil
back in 1996. Then they put me on another one, and I can't remember what it was.

I only know the brave, srtong woman I was became scared of life, and then there was
Cymbalta. This is not like anything I have ever gone through in my life, and can only
pray to get to the other side.

Hope you are ok today.

Thanks for the post!

Debbie

[nursedeborah]

Maurene,
I am not going to go down 5 mg the next time. I wrote somewhere that I have not
really been doing a slow taper at all.

I didn't realize just how mental I was, so I am staying on this 25 mg for awhile to get
really stavble, and then will juat go down abvout 2.5 mg, or even 2mg. I just don't
ever want to do that to myself ever again. Like I tell everyone,"This is not a race"!!

Thanks for you help, and support, I sure need it!

Love,
Debbie

You never did say how you make that dish with the vinalla bean, and I can't remember
the rest. It just sounds so great!

Do tell.

Debbie

[MaureenV]

Hi Debbie,

Glad to hear you're going to stay at each dose until really stable. As you know I got impatient, and had to backtrack even from the tiny dose I was on - really only because of my work. It wasn't that they symptoms were unmanageable / unpleasant, more that I felt I was operating underwater and my business is really busy.


I just can't afford to stuff up so many times like I did that day. I was debating what to do after today's last pre-prepared 5mg dose, but am still getting a few brain zaps so will prepare six more (from 30mg capsule).


I did ask which recipe - because there were two, but who knows which thread it was on??


I'll put the vanilla bean creamed rice on here later today.

I won't tell you how many calories are in it either. :))



Maureen.

[MaureenV]

Hi Madtabby,

(we have ourselves a 'new' ginger & white smooch of a boy of 12 months old - he's already showing signs of earning the moniker mad tabby himself, but we've settled for Archie.)



I agree on the nine, too. I went by a post here on a thread 'how to safely get off cymbalta' but did a double check myself at one stage because they'd been working on 20m capsules and I wanted to be sure they were the same size in each weight.

Pesky little things to count!


cheers, Maureen.