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#301 fishinghat

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Posted 02 April 2022 - 04:07 PM

 
Promethazine 
Promethazine (Phenergan) acts primarily as a strong antagonist of the H1 receptor (antihistamine) and a moderate mACh receptor antagonist (anticholinergic),[2] and also has weak to moderate affinity for the 5-HT2A,[20] 5-HT2C,[20] D2,[21][22]and α1-adrenergic receptors.
Side effects
Some documented side effects include:
 
Tardive dyskinesia, pseudoparkinsonism, acute dystonia (effects due to dopamine D2 receptor antagonism)
Confusion in the elderly
Drowsiness, dizziness, fatigue, more rarely vertigo
Known to have effects on serotonin and dopamine receptors.
Dry mouth
Nausea
Respiratory depression in patients under age of two and in those with severely compromised pulmonary function
Blurred vision, xerostomia, dry nasal passages, dilated pupils, constipation, and urinary retention. (due to cholinergic effects)
Chest discomfort/pressure (In children less than 2 years old)
Akathisia
 
Less frequent:
Cardiovascular side effects to include arrhythmias and hypotension
Neuroleptic malignant syndrome
Liver damage and cholestatic jaundice
Bone marrow suppression, potentially resulting in agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, and leukopenia
Depression of the thermoregulatory mechanism resulting in hypothermia/hyperthermia
 
Rare side effects include:
Seizures
 
Because of potential for more severe side effects, this drug is on the list to avoid in the elderly.
 
Note - It is often used to calm patients before surgeries. Acts much the same way as Benadryl (diphenhydramine) but causes more sleepiness and anxiolytic (calming) but lasts a shorter period of time. This may not be a bad idea. It works on histamine and alpha adrenergic receptors so should be calming.
 
I would start with a small dose and work up until you see how it goes. Like Benadryl it has a lot of drug interactions.

#302 invalidusername

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Posted 02 April 2022 - 05:06 PM

Thanks iUN, I will keep,kratom in mind, I already use a medical marijuana, cbd and THC gummy.

last night was horrible, almost 3 weeks off and things are getting even worse.  I went to bed at 930 because I was exhausted from little sleep the night before, I took my marijuana gummy and put a few drops of sublingual melatonin under my tongue at 930.  At 11 still lying there awake and still unable to sleep I took a baclofen and I was still lying there awake at 2 when I tried a trazodone and still nothing.  No sleep at all last night and I haven’t been able to sleep during the day no matter how tired I am since chemo a few years back.  I’ve tried Benadryl, magnesium and a couple other otc sleep aids with no success.  I know you guys have tried and tried to find a solution for me and I appreciate it.  I still just had to come and vent because I am so frustrated by this.  I had to go on mirtazapine due to insomnia after trying several other drugs with no success.  Mirtazapine was the only thing that allowed me to sleep for about 6 hours at first but a few months in it wasn’t helping so much anymore for sleep and had too many side effects.

 

You have nothing to lose by trying Kratom. I just hope that it does something for you. A quick 101... the darker the leaf, the more it will relax you - a white leaf (or vein) is for depression and gives a boost of energy where needed and a red leaf is for anxiety and relaxation (and pain relief). You have yellow and green inbetween which gives a bit of both, but for your situation, you would do best for a red borneo or jungle deep (where available). It never fails to knock me out - or the wife (who suffers more with sleep than I). At worst, the wife gets about 6 or 7 hours sleep before she wakes and cannot sleep. If I take it, I can sleep for anything up to 9 hours or more! 

 

It will relax you to a point that it makes you feel quite comforted (it is after all, a mild opiod). This is why I state clearly that it can be addictive in the wrong hands. The last thing I want to do is to suggest this to someone who then gets attached to it. Use your own judgement. I do not have a very addictive personality so I can take it or leave it most times. My doses have never increased, so I know I am safe. 

 

If in doubt, please talk to me. I have done a multitude of research and it can be an amazing thing used under the right direction.

 

IUN


#303 mimi10

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 06:49 AM

Oh guys, things have not improved at all, maybe worse.  Sleep is gone completely now.  I have an appt with my pcp tomorrow morning because I simply cannot go on getting 2 hours sleep a night.  Last night about 10 I took a soma to help with the pain and sleep nut while it helped reduce the pain some I did not sleep at all.  Finally about 230 still awake I took a trazodone which helped me fall asleep rather quickly but I woke up at 4 so it really only gets me an hour or two of sleep.  Pcp said some of his ideas are go back on mirtazapine, try ambient cr or try amitriptyline which may help with pain and sleep.  We will talk about it tomorrow morning and decide which way to proceed.  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I don’t know which option to lean towards.  I have now been off mirtazapine 24 days.


#304 invalidusername

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 06:15 PM

Hi mimi...

 

How have you been getting on with this? What was discussed? 

 

I have never been a fan of allopathic sleep drugs. I have been in a similar situation more than once and I went with Zolpidem. It was the only thing that worked before me before I knew about Kratom. But it came with a whole bunch of side effects, but it did give me some days where I was at my wits end like you. 

 

Hat is far better versed with Z-drugs and similar - all I would offer is natural resources... Really feel for you 

 

IUN


#305 fishinghat

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 07:59 AM

Sorry mimi, missed this post somehow.

 

Ambient cr, as IUN stated, is one of the infamous Z drugs. It acts in the same way as a benzo and can be just addictive with a tough withdrawal. It also has a strong chance of sleep walking activities such as driving, eating, sex and much more. 

 

Amitriptyline is only slightly better. A tough withdrawal with sexual side effects, usually weight gain, and more. I am going to dig deeper today and see what I can find as another option but that is a long shot.


#306 mimi10

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:37 AM

Doc opted for ambien cr and sent in a script which the pharmacy could not fill, said they had to order the med for me so I did not get the script until yesterday.  I took one 6.25mg last night when I was still lying awake at 11 after a no sleep night the day before and fell asleep about 1130, slept through until 5 which is the most sleep I’ve gotten in a long time.  My sleep tracker said it was all light sleep, no rem, no deep but still better than lying awake alll night.  I am now one month off the mirtazapine and some things are just beginning to settle so I am hoping for improvement soon.  Thanks guys for being around, appreciate it.

came back this afternoon, having a terrible day, stomach pain, diarrhea, nausea and no appetite at all,  could it be the ambien or still withdrawal getting worse.


#307 mimi10

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 03:38 PM

IUN, some more info on kratom please, I am on the verge of losing it.  I am on medical marijuana, can they be taken together.  Where do you get kratom, is it legal, is it expensive.  Are there side effects, are there withdrawal from it.  I also take a statin for,high cholesterol, and methenamine mandelate for previous chronic utis.


#308 fishinghat

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 05:01 PM

Doubtful it is the Ambien. Possible but unusual. 

 

If you can, you might try an Ambien every other night. This would make it easier to come off of later You might also try the Ambien at bedtime and then if you wake early like 2 or 3 AM try sublingual melatonin and see if it will give you another hour or so. Ambien, like benzos, block REM sleep but like you say it is better than staying awake all night.


#309 mimi10

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 07:05 AM

Hat, I really screwed up, couldn’t sleep last night and by mistake took a 7.5 mirtazapine instead of ambien.  Did not sleep well at all, can I just go back to zero Mirtazapine.  I am having a great deal of physical pain in the right hip, lower back and groin, cannot possible sleep through it.  Having pudendal nerve block tomorrow and see orthopedist next week.


#310 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 09:20 AM

Bad timing. I would go back to zero on the mirtazapine if it were me. I am sure you realize that things may be pretty unsettled with the taking of the mirtazapine as well as stress over the upcoming procedure. 

 

I should be back shortly with some more thoughts on your sleep issues.


#311 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 10:03 AM

Supplements to consider
Dramamine (an antihistamine so do not take with other antihistamines)
Ashwagandha*
L-theanine*
CBD Oil (IUN is much more knowledgeable on this material so I would seek his guidance if you are interested)
Phosphatidylserine*
* most likely to have success.
 
Tips for Getting a Good Night’s Sleep
 
Tip 1: Keep a regular sleep schedule
Getting back in sync with your body’s natural sleep–wake cycle—your circadian rhythm (daily rhythm)—is one of the most important strategies for achieving good sleep. If you keep a regular sleep schedule, going to bed and getting up at the same time each day, you will feel much more refreshed and energized than if you sleep the same number of hours at different times. This holds true even if you alter your sleep schedule by only an hour or two. Consistency is important.
 
Set a regular bedtime. Go to bed at the same time every night. Try not to break this routine on weekends when it may be tempting to stay up late. No more than 15 minutes earlier or later each day. 
Wake up at the same time every day. If you’re getting enough sleep, you should wake up naturally without an alarm. If you need an alarm clock to wake up on time, you may need to set an earlier bedtime. As with your bedtime, try to maintain your regular wake–time even on weekends. 
Nap to make up for lost sleep. If you need to make up for a few lost hours, use a daytime nap rather than sleeping late. DO NOT NAP MORE THAN 1 HOUR PER DAY as it may affect your evenings sleep. DO NOT NAP AFTER 5 PM. The best time to nap is early afternoon.
 
Fight after–dinner drowsiness. If you find yourself getting sleepy way before your bedtime, get off the couch and do something mildly stimulating to avoid falling asleep, such as washing the dishes, calling a friend, or getting clothes ready for the next day. If you give in to the drowsiness, you may will usually wake up later in the night and have trouble getting back to sleep. 
 
Tip 2: Naturally regulate your sleep-wake cycle
Melatonin is your naturally produced hormone that regulates your sleep. Melatonin production is controlled by light exposure. Your brain will secrete more in the evening, as it becomes darker, Conversely, during the day your brain detects increasing light levels and begins producing serotonin, which causes one to wake and be alert.
 
Spending long days in an office away from natural light, for example, can impact your daytime wakefulness and make your brain sleepy. Then bright lights at night—especially from hours spent in front of the TV or computer screen—can suppress your body’s production of melatonin and make it harder to sleep. However, there are ways for you to naturally regulate your sleep-wake cycle, boost your body’s production of melatonin, and keep your brain on a healthy schedule.
 
Increase light exposure during the day
Remove your sunglasses in the morning and let light onto your face. 
Spend more time outside during daylight. Try to take your work breaks outside in sunlight, exercise outside, or walk your dog during the day instead of at night. 
Let as much light into your home/workspace as possible. Keep curtains and blinds open during the day. 
Boost melatonin production at night
Turn off your television and computer. Many people use the television to fall asleep or relax at the end of the day. Not only does the light suppress melatonin production, but television can actually stimulate the mind, rather than relaxing it. Try listening to music or audio books instead, or practicing relaxation. If your favorite TV show is on late at night, record it for viewing earlier in the day. 
Don’t read from a backlit device at night (such as an iPad). If you use a portable electronic device to read, use an eReader that is not backlit, i.e. one that requires an additional light source such as a bedside lamp. 
Change your light bulbs. Avoid bright lights before bed, after 7 PM do not use a light greater than 25 watts. Reduce light exposure by significantly reducing the brightness on your TV or electronic device.
When it’s time to sleep, make sure the room is dark. The darker it is, the better you’ll sleep. Cover electrical displays, use heavy curtains or shades to block light from windows, or try an eye mask to cover your eyes. Most patients with chronic problems blacken their bedrooms entirely. Do not use nightlights if it can be done safely. Block all windows in the bedroom so light can not enter.
 
Tip 3: Create a relaxing bedtime routine
If you make a consistent effort to relax and unwind before bed, you will sleep easier and more deeply. A peaceful bedtime routine sends a powerful signal to your brain that it’s time to wind down and let go of the day’s stresses.
Keep noise down. If you can’t avoid or eliminate noise from barking dogs, loud neighbors, city traffic, or other people in your household, try masking it with a fan, recordings of soothing sounds, or white noise. You can buy a special sound machine or generate your own white noise by setting your radio between stations. Earplugs may also help. Sound machines can be purchased at local department stores.
 
Keep your room cool. The temperature of your bedroom also affects sleep. Most people sleep best in a slightly cool room. A bedroom that is too hot or too cold can interfere with quality sleep. 
 
Make sure your bed is comfortable. You should have enough room to stretch and turn comfortably. If you often wake up with a sore back or an aching neck, you may need to invest in a new mattress or a try a different pillow. Experiment with different levels of mattress firmness, foam or egg crate toppers, and pillows that provide more support. 
Relaxing bedtime rituals to try
Read a book or magazine by a soft light 
Take a warm bath 
Listen to soft music 
Do some easy stretches 
Wind down with a favorite hobby 
Listen to books on tape 
Make simple preparations for the next day 
DO NOT exercise or do any significant physical activity after 6 PM. Anything considered work (laundry, dishes, etc) must be avoided after 6 PM.
 
Tip 4: Eat right and get regular exercise
Your daytime eating and exercise habits play a role in how well you sleep. It’s particularly important to watch what you put in your body in the hours leading up to your bedtime.
Stay away from big meals at night. Try to make dinnertime earlier in the evening, and avoid heavy, rich foods within two hours of bed. Fatty foods take a lot of work for your stomach to digest and may keep you up. Also be cautious when it comes to spicy or acidic foods in the evening, as they can cause stomach trouble and heartburn. 
Avoid alcohol before bed. Many people think that a nightcap before bed will help them sleep. While it may make you fall asleep faster, alcohol reduces your sleep quality, waking you up later in the night. To avoid this effect, so stay away from alcohol in the hours before bed. 
Eliminate caffeine. You might be surprised to know that caffeine can cause sleep problems up to ten to twelve hours after drinking it! No chocolate, most teas, coffee.
Avoid drinking too many liquids in the evening. Drinking lots of water, juice, tea, or other fluids may result in frequent bathroom trips throughout the night. Caffeinated drinks, which act as diuretics, only make things worse. 
Quit smoking. Smoking causes sleep troubles in numerous ways. Nicotine is a stimulant, which disrupts sleep. Additionally, smokers actually experience nicotine withdrawal as the night progresses, making it hard to sleep. 
Eliminate stimulants. No sugars, salty food or MSG. Sugar is a stimulant which can increase blood pressure and pulse. It can take significant time to process this material and slow down your metabolism. Salts like table salt and MSG provide sodium which is used by the body to help carry electrical system in our bodies. This can also increase heart rates and metabolism for several hours.
 
If you’re hungry at bedtime
For some people, a light snack before bed can help promote sleep. When you pair tryptophan–containing foods with carbohydrates, it may help calm the brain and allow you to sleep better. For others, eating before bed can lead to indigestion and make sleeping more difficult. Experiment with your food habits to determine your optimum evening meals and snacks. If you need a bedtime snack, try:
A small bowl of whole–grain, low–sugar cereal 
Granola with low–fat milk or yogurt 
A banana (not sugary fruits)
You’ll also sleep more deeply if you exercise regularly. As little as twenty to thirty minutes of daily activity helps. And you don’t need to do all thirty minutes in one session. You can break it up into five minutes here, ten minutes there, and still get the benefits. Try a brisk walk, a bicycle ride, or even gardening or housework.  Serious exercise, even small amounts, must be done before 6 PM.
Some people prefer to schedule exercise in the morning or early afternoon as exercising too late in the day can stimulate the body, raising its temperature. 
 
Tip 5: Get anxiety and stress in check 
Do you find yourself unable to sleep or waking up night after night? Residual stress, worry, and anger from your day can make it very difficult to sleep well. When you wake up or can’t get to sleep, take note of what seems to be the recurring theme. That will help you figure out what you need to do to get your stress and anger under control during the day:
If you can’t stop yourself from worrying, especially about things outside your control, you need to learn how to manage your thoughts. When trying to go to sleep it is essential not to think about work, money, your family’s problems or other stressful subjects. These are very detrimental to sleep. Do not think about exciting subjects (a vacation, your favorite hobbies, etc.). Instead pick something mundane (boring). Pick a subject like weeding you garden, cleaning your car, etc. It will be difficult to stay focused on these boring subjects at first but it will become easier with time and practice.
If the stress of managing work, family, or school is keeping you awake, you need help with stress management. By learning how to manage your time effectively, handle stress in a productive way, and maintain a calm, positive outlook, you’ll be able to sleep better at night. 
 
Relaxation techniques for better sleep
Deep breathing. Close your eyes—and try taking deep, slow breaths—making each breath even deeper than the last. 
Progressive muscle relaxation. Starting at your toes, tense all the muscles as tightly as you can, then completely relax. Work your way up from your feet to the top of your head. 
Visualizing a peaceful, restful place. Close your eyes and imagine a place or activity that is calming and peaceful for you. Concentrate on how relaxed this place or activity makes you feel. 
 
Tip 6: Ways to get back to sleep
It’s normal to wake briefly during the night. In fact, a good sleeper won’t even remember it. But if you’re waking up during the night and having trouble falling back asleep, the following tips may help.
Stay out of your head. Hard as it may be, try not to stress over the fact that you’re awake or your inability to fall asleep again, because that very stress and anxiety encourages your body to stay awake. 
Make relaxation your goal, not sleep. If you are finding it hard to fall back asleep, try a  relaxation technique such as visualization (focus your eyes on something in the room), deep breathing, or meditation, which can be done without even getting out of bed. Remind yourself that although they’re not a replacement for sleep, rest and relaxation still help rejuvenate your body. 
Stretching. If you wake during the night do NOT fight it or panic. If you can not go to sleep in 10 to 15 minutes, get up, wake 20 or 30 feet, stretch (touch your toes or stretch your arms), walk back to bed and lay back down again. Each time you stretch and lay down your body will produce a small amount of endorphins which help the body relax.  
Postpone worrying and brainstorming. If you wake during the night feeling anxious about something, make a brief note of it on paper and postpone worrying about it until the next day when you are fresh and it will be easier to resolve. Similarly, if a brainstorm or great idea is keeping you awake, make a note of it on paper and fall back to sleep knowing you’ll be much more productive and creative after a good night’s rest. 
 
FN - Sound machine/radio - I pick out which of the sounds (often I have high and low pitch, hissing, humming, and whirring all at the same time) I find most pleasing ... and somehow that helps me drift off to sleep ... It helps cover up outside noises.
Raven - I also sometimes find that putting headphones on and listening to your favorite music as loud as you can stand it helps drown out anything that might make you panic, it might even help you fall asleep.

#312 mimi10

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 10:30 AM

Hat, thanks for the wealth of information.  I don’t know what is happening but today I am in a very dark place, I am very depressed.  Makes no sense to me because I have never been an anxious or depressed person.  Is this normal when I have been off mirtazapine for a little over a month not counting my screwup last night.   I have never experienced a darkness like this over me, went on mirtazapine because of insomnia.  I have also been very nauseous this past week and struggle to eat anything, I’ve lost 6 pounds this week which I can’t really afford to lose.  Can this be possible for all this to start up at one month off.


#313 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 11:06 AM

The single dose of mirtazapine is likely the cause of the sudden onset of depression but that should reduce in 24 to 48 hours.

 

Nausea and other digestive issues are not uncommon with coming off mirtazapine but that usually hits a few days after a drop in dose. You on the other hand have been off a while. Ginger products are very good for nausea. A lot of women rely on it during pregnancy. Getting the nausea under control may help your appetite as well. Nausea, weight loss and extreme insomnia are common with coming off mirtazapine. You might need to turn to some protein drinks or such to help your calorie intake during this time. 


#314 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 11:10 AM

Have you read the information in the ebook about mirtazapine?


#315 mimi10

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 03:01 PM

Sorry to be a pest today.  I am going to look for that section in the ebook.  I was at the senior center this afternoon for an afternoon of cards which I run as a volunteer for the center and really enjoy it and In the middle of it I had a full blown panic attack which I have never had panic attacks.  Is this still the mirtazapine withdrawal this far out, I am at a loss as to why I feel so bad after a month.


#316 fishinghat

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 03:51 PM

It is very probably from the one mirtazapine tablet you took yesterday(?) and now it is wearing off.  I have seen these types of reactions in a great many Cymbalta withdrawals when someone accidently takes a much higher dose and then realizes their mistake. It usually takes a few days for the body to settle back down to where it was before the accidental dose. Don't feel too bad about this, it happens to most of us. It will pass.


#317 invalidusername

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Posted 15 April 2022 - 08:25 AM

Hi Mimi,

 

I am on medical marijuana, can they be taken together.  

Yes - there are no known issues, but I would suggest taking them apart from each other so that you can effectively judge the effects independently from the other.

 

Where do you get Kratom?

There are many places all over the States (sorry I am assuming you are in the US), but I have always recommended Kats Botanicals. They were one of the first to offer the sale of Kratom, participate in fair trade regulations, and actively support the work of the American Kratom Association. 

 

Is it expensive?

Comparatively speaking, no - especially as you take medical grade marijuana. You can typically buy in 50g, 100g, 250g and 500g - the more you buy the cheaper but start with a sample. It is cheaper in the US that for me to ship it in from The Netherlands, but a typical dose sets me back around £1. So I would imagine a typical dose would be around $1. It depends on how much you need, but I would work on that budget. 

 

Are there side effects, are there withdrawal from it?

I have helped probably about 50 people with Kratom - one had constipation issues and one got headaches. All of the others had no problems at all. The constipation user found it to outweigh the issue and just took some magnesium to counteract. The girl with the headaches tried some other veins, but alas, was the same and had to stop.

 

Please bear in mind that this is an opioid and naturally that follows that there may be withdrawal. Used for sleep, you will not "feel" the effects, so used only for this purpose, it is not used recreationally (which I do not condone). 

 

I must suggest that you try it before using it for sleep as it will sure send you to sleep, but you need to make sure it will not cause any problems for you. You also need to get the right dose for you. So you WILL feel the effects of the Kratom, and it is very relaxing and kills off anxiety no problem! 

 

I also take a statin for,high cholesterol, and methenamine mandelate for previous chronic utis.

 

I also have to take statins, but have you been able to look into Inclisiran? This replaces your daily pills with bi-annual injections and are much better. But again, you should not find any issues here.

 

Is it legal?

Kratom is legal in over 90% of the States thanks for the work of the AKA. Check this map to make sure you fall in that boundary - despite being a couple of years old, the status remains the same as shown;

 

https://www.sprouthe...te-1280x909.png

 

What should I order?

Regarding what you should order, it will for sure need to be a red vein. I am very jealous of US residents as you have much more choice that we do here in the EU! It is also very much a subjective experience. I have found Red Bourneo to be excellent, but Maeng Da not so much, but that is not to say what works best with you. In general, any red will have similar effects, but you will find one to be the best fit for you. The stuff that Kats offer I would love to try! But we cannot get the same suppliers over here.

 

How do I prepare it?

Get an accurate measure. A tumbler mixed with 50/50 of juice/water. Kratom is very bitter - pineapple juice kills the taste well. But anything works well. To prepare, put your dose of Kratom powder into the tumbler with your juice/water mix and wait 20 minutes. It will absorb, taste better and potentiate the mix. 

 

How do I know what the best dose is for me?

Start with 2,5gm. If after an hour you do not feel as much as you would like, add another gram. If this is still not enough (unlikely), next day start with 3gm - add another gram after an hour again if not enough. Then keep adding half a gram until you get the dose right. Most will find something between 3-5gm to be ideal. But leave 24 hours between these doses.

 

I hope this helps well. I have been taking it for a long time - as has my wife. I have also seen and heard the success stories from those that I have helped. BUT... your safety is my utmost concern. Please DO start low. 2,5gm will not harm you. I know of users who have (foolishly) got to 30gm+ a day to satisfy their need. This is awful. The most I have had in a day was 10gm when I had a two very bad consecutive seizures. I was fine. It is almost impossible to overdose as you will be asleep far before you will take too much.

 

Hat - with your permission, I could add this "how-to" into another section and/or to the book. As we collaborate, I will seek your guidance on this and there will be no offence taken f you would rather it not be noted for inclusion to the eBook.

 

Mimi - please feel free to ask me anything else. I have done a substantial amount of research relating to Kratom. I will help you as best I can.

 

Take care and please let me know what you decide and how you get on.

 

IUN


#318 mimi10

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 06:41 AM

Hi guys,

been a while but I am back with more problems.  I’ve now been off mirtazapine a little over two months and things are improving greatly.  Sleep is still shaky.  Doc started me on amitriptyline to try to help with the nerve pain and sleep.  He started me on 5mg for 4 days then up to 10mg.  After 10 days at 10mg he felt that I needed to come off due to overwhelming daytime fatigue and increased heart rate which he felt would only worsen as dose increased.  His instructions were to go back to 5 for a week, then try to cut that in half and do 2.5 for a week, then off.  I was wondering since I’ve now been on close to 3 weeks, 4 days at 5, 10 days at 10mg and now 4 more days at 5mg, maybe I should just try to stop instead of having more exposure to the drug and possibly habituating to it.  What do you think, hat?


#319 fishinghat

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 05:00 PM

I agree with your doctor. You have been on it a short enough time that a few extra days to wean should be OK.

 

On top of that why come off one sleep aide with withdrawal just to put you on another sleep aide with withdrawal. Why not something like hydroxyzine for sleep? No withdrawal with it.


#320 mimi10

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 11:08 AM

Thanks hat, now 6 days at 5mg, tonight I’ll try the 2.5.  Doc chose amitriptyline to try to help with the nerve pain I’ve had since chemo which has started to get worse this past year and causes a lot of sleep disturbance.  Pain doc wants to try a sacral neuromodulator which is scheduled for a trial implant June 7.  I’ve already tried neurontin, cymbalta and lyrica for the nerve pain and none have helped.  Also had some nerve blocks and Botox injections and they have not helped either.  Thanks again for your help hat, I know I can always count on you.


#321 fishinghat

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 11:53 AM

Glad to help Mimi. With all the back surgeries my wife has had it has become obvious that pain killers are a mine field. Many don't work, many are addictive and there are few other choices.


#322 invalidusername

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 06:36 AM

Hi Mimi,

 

I am right there with Hat - the painkillers can be with worst in terms of addiction and thus carry with them a nightmare withdrawal.

 

Regarding the amitriptyline, I would still proceed with caution. Although you have had a limited time on it, not everyone can stomach a quick turnaround after even a short term on the drug. Listen to your body as it can quickly turn being a tricyclic. They can still be very useful in some cases, but extremely difficult in others. 


#323 mimi10

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Posted 23 July 2022 - 12:47 PM

Hey hat, 

back again.  Amitriptyline didn’t work out, too many side effects, been off for a while now without issue.  I’ve been trying to get off the marijuana gummy and am really struggling.  It’s a gummy that weighs 4 grams and is 20cbd/10thc, been on it about five years every night.  About a year ago I gradually reduced the size of the gummy to half, weight of 2 grams, and have been using that for the past year.  A couple months ago I started trying to reduce more with hopes of stopping and these cuts have been brutal, I’ve been going very small and slow and am currently at a gummy weight of 1.4grams so roughly 7cbd/3.5thc.  The last cut was one month ago and I’ve not been able to stabilize, still anxious, nauseous, no appetite and little sleep, previous  cuts I felt better after about 2 weeks.  Things are really bad from early morning,like 4 or 5am, til about 4 in the afternoon when they settle down and I can finally eat a meal.  Take the dose about 9pm, fall asleep about 930 and always up by 3 with body vibrations and muscle aches and pains.  I was wondering if you thought dividing the little piece of gummy inhalf and dosing every 12 hours would make things better or if it would only add to the withdrawals.

I have a doctor appt on Monday and was going to ask him about going back on mirtazapine or trying lexapro because for all of these things to be lasting this long after a dose reduction makes me think maybe it’s an anxiety issue and not all withdrawal.  Since insomnia is a big issue for me I am a little afraid of lexapro since I see that can be a startup, but in the past Mirtazapine only helped with sleep for the first few months, although I was always on a dose of 7.5 and never went up to 15 which I believe is considered the therapeutic dose.  Withdrawal from the mirtazapine was brutal, don’t know about lexapro. The insomnia is still the absolute worst, as last night I didn’t sleep at all because of body aches and pains, mostly hip and back and those disturbing body virbations that go on almost all night. I’m very confused as it doesn’t seem like anyone really has much info on the marijuana withdrawal, many sites mostly detox centers say it’s mild and doesn’t last more than 2 weeks but some say it can be severe and last a couple months.  I don’t really want to medicate if it is withdrawal but I also don’t know how much longer I can continue feeling like this.  I would very much appreciate your thoughts.  I also reached out to iUN a couple of times through messaging since this relates to marijuana and not cymbalta but haven’t heard back from him, I know he is busy and has been struggling as well.


#324 fishinghat

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Posted 23 July 2022 - 02:36 PM

Oh Mimi I wish I could help but as you know marijuana is out of my area of expertise. I hate to see you go back to mirtazapine because as you say it only lasts a few months and them you have to do another withdrawal.


#325 mimi10

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Posted 27 July 2022 - 06:58 AM

Well hat, thanks for the try.  I saw my doc and he suggested pausing the marijuana taper and stay at the reduced dose and starting a low dose of lexapro, so I am on day 2 of 2.5mg lexapro, supposed to up it to 5 in a week or two.  Doc thinks it’s more anxiety at this point than the marijuana withdrawal since my last cut in that was more than one month ago.  Well I’m giving it a try, wish me luck as I am very nervous about this as I am taking the grandkids to the beach for a week first week of august and got to be up for it.


#326 mimi10

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Posted 29 July 2022 - 06:31 AM

Hey hat.  Day 4 on 2.5 lexapro and feeling pretty rough.  Morning are hardest, nausea, tinnitus, anxiety which fades as day goes on.  Sleep is still not good for me but it’s been bad for a long time, some night sweats now.  Doc thinks the insomnia may have a stress/anxiety component to it and that’s why he started me on lexapro.  I am guessing this is all lexapro startup I am experiencing.   Does all this seem normal at this point of starting lexapro?


#327 fishinghat

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Posted 29 July 2022 - 07:42 AM

Not unusual with any start up of a new antidepressant. Unluckily it may take a few weeks to settle down.


#328 mimi10

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Posted 04 August 2022 - 06:02 AM

Hat, seeking a little more of your knowledge and advice my friend.  I took 2.5 lexapro for 6 days, then doc said to go up to 5 so I wet up to 5mg on Sunday night.  I have had morning anxiety every morning which fades by afternoon since I started lexapro.  Last night was 4th dose of 5mg, took it 9pm, fell asleep about 945 but then woke up about 1045 soaked in sweat and shaking all over, major panic attack.  I have been dealing with some anxiety but panic attacks are not normal for me at all and extremely rare and drug induced.  Is this normal startup with lexapro and will things settle down, I know it’s early on for seeing results yet but I wasn’t expecting this either.  We are leaving for the beach with the kids tomorrow so I am concerned.  


#329 fishinghat

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Posted 04 August 2022 - 02:31 PM

Not unusual for Lexapro start-up. It should settle down in 7 to 10 days. If it keeps up past that point you may need to try something else. Hang in there mimi.


#330 invalidusername

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Posted 07 August 2022 - 12:50 PM

Mimi,

 

My apologies for getting back to you. I had a notice that you sent a message, but I then realised that my message quota was 100% full.

 

You need to be so careful with MJ withdrawal - the anxiety and confusion that it can bring is very real indeed. You need to be so careful especially where there are other allopathic drugs involved.

 

I am not proud of it but I have been there first hand in trialing MJ whilst on other SSRI drugs and it does not bode well. You have to be so careful. My means of testing was for my father going through use fo MJ for his suffering with Parkinson's disease. The last thing I wanted was for him to get into further trouble as a result of trialing MJ.

 

I had to be so careful with what I did and once it is in the system, you need to be so careful how it is removed. 

 

Do not forget that a lot of these other test take place once participants have removed themselves from all other allopathic drugs purely for the reason that there is no knowing what can following its wake. You need to be so careful and if you need to continue on the dose for longer than expected, the simply do that. Do not rush this as it will take you to a place that you never thought possible...

 

IUN





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