Sorry but I am slightly confused. I can definitely pick up some CBD product at the dispensary to add in but are you saying that there is no withdrawal from the gummy I have been using, that because it’s THC and ingested it doesn’t have a withdrawal. It was making me buzzed an hour or so after taking it which is why I only used it at bedtime. I definitely feel like there is a pretty strong withdrawal starting the third day after I make a cut.
Need Help To Finish This
Posted 18 April 2021 - 05:54 PM
Sorry - maybe didn't make it quite clear.
I was trying to establish whether it was THCa in the gummies, as there are some cheap knock offs which have only THC which will do nothing other than a placebo. If you have THCa in the gummies, which you probably have, then there will be a withdrawal.
Posted 19 April 2021 - 07:42 AM
IUN, I talked to one of the bud tenders at the dispensary and it seemed like he said the opposite. He said that my gummies do have THC in them and will make you high and do have a withdrawal. He said some of their products have THCa in them and they do not make you high or have a withdrawal. Something about the size of the molecules and not fitting into the cannaboid receptors. All kind of confusing to me but apparently I am getting withdrawal from them and it is pretty nasty. I’m holding where I am right now at 5/8 dose which is I guess a dose of 12.5 CBD and 6.25 THC. Soon I am going to make another cut by 1/8 of the gummy to get to an even half dose which would be 10cbd and 5 THC, much easier to make that cut of the gummy and there is the same brand of gummy at the dispensary which has 5cbd and 5thc in it so I’m assuming I could change over to that when I get to the half dose. Does that make sense? Thanks for helping me to understand, wish I had known before I started taking this 3 years ago.
Posted 21 April 2021 - 06:03 PM
My apologies - I was getting the two mixed up! Easily done when replying too late at night.
The THCa is what is used in the stuff that people can buy over here in the UK and consider it a means to get "high", but this is simply not possible - this is done purely for legal constraints. THCa can still be advertised as Cannabis, thus people get drawn into thinking that it is the real deal.
Yes, ingesting THC will have the desired effect in most cases, but having said that, there are still many that exist of poor quality where the decarboxylation process is not adequate which is why you should always make sure you acquire from reputable sources. People often make the mistake of thinking they can get high from ingesting raw leaf, but this is not possible as it is not metabolised in the same way. And even before cooking with it, there are still stages through which the raw compound must be prepared.
Back in "the day", friends of mine would just put raw weed on pizza, cook it, and think they got high, but it was all placebo effect. There is a lot more science to it.
This site is quite informative for the curious;
Posted 23 April 2021 - 09:25 AM
I realize this is entirely off topic but I am posting here today to ask for your thoughts and prayers. I went to the dentist yesterday for a teeth cleaning and he was concerned about enlarged lymph nodes in my neck, told me to check in with my oncologist. I had NHL seven years ago and have been in remission since summer of 2014. I am both nervous and scared. My oncologist very recently relocated out of state so my appointment is with the doc who has replaced her. She cannot see me until may 13th so I am to see her PA on Monday morning and if the PA needs to consult with the doc, she will either go and consult with her or bring her into me. Doc wants to do it this way in case she needs any scans or tests done I could get them done before she sees me in may. I am very nervous about all of this as my treatment consisted of 5 drugs in the chemo cocktail, two of which have a lifetime limit on them as to how much you can get and I had my lifetime amount in my six rounds of chemo. Again, all thoughts and prayers would be much appreciated.
Posted 23 April 2021 - 12:15 PM
Truly a challenging situation. You will be in my heart and prayers mimi. You have been through so much. This is the time to be kind to yourself. Don't worry about about anything else righht now but pampering yourself. Do you have family or freinds for support? We are here to help in anyway [possible.
If there is any research I can do on the medical journals please let me know.
Posted 24 April 2021 - 06:00 PM
Can only echo what my friends have said. Truly a concerning time for you, and you will be in my prayers.
As Hat said, now is the time to be as kind to yourself as you possibly can. Have some time out, relax and pamper yourself. This will help on many levels...
Posted 27 April 2021 - 05:21 PM
Thanks to you all for your thoughts and prayers. Hat, I am very fortunate to have support from my husband and two grown children as well as my two brothers and several good friends. I saw the oncologist’s PA yesterday morning, she sent me to their lab to have blood drawn before I left and ordered ct scan with barium and IV contrast of neck, chest, abdomen and pelvis. CT appt was made so I wEnt to the radiology center to pickup the barium and do paperwork for test. Today drank the barium according to their schedule, went to the radiology center, had IV put in my arm and when the tech tried to do the CT scan the machine was not working properly. She said nothing was showing up on her monitors. Luckily another office of the radiology center said since I was prepped for the test they would fit me into their schedule. The tech wrapped my arm with the IV in it and sent me to the other office which was only a few miles away from them. So I did get the CT scan done, now the wait for results. Tech said doc should have them on Thursday.
In the meantime, withdrawal effects from cymbalta seem to be lessening with each passing day. I have also managed to trim my medical marijuana dose to half, which would now be 10cbd and 5thc. I am going to leave that where it is for now. As for the mirtazapine, I have been taking the 7.5 dose usually about every other night. Seems like every other night I am falling asleep on my own and while not sleeping well, am sleeping about the same as the nights I take the mirtazapine, usually about 5 hours from 10 to 3. I am hopeful sleep will gradually get better. I am unsure as to how many nights I can skip the mirtazapine without causing withdrawal. Skipping it was not intentional at first, I fell asleep one night before I took it so started trying to fall asleep on my own. Seems like every other night I can but the next night I lie awake til about 11 and then I take the mirtazapine to get some sleep and am back up at 4. Can’t seem to figure out what the difference is why I cannot fall asleep what seems like every other night, not sure if cymbalta is still playing into it, or trimming the marijuana dose is doing something there.
will keep update when I have news from the scan. Thank you all again for the positive thoughts, they are very much appreciated.
Posted 01 May 2021 - 02:34 PM
First I would like to thank you guys for your kind thoughts and prayers, results of scan came back and doc says things appear stable. Some lymph nodes are enlarged but have been that way since after chemo and may alway be that way. What a relief.
now I think I need some more of your knowledge, I’m not sure if you are familiar with mirtazapine, but I have been using it for about 8 weeks now for insomnia. The past week or so I have fallen asleep at night before taking it but I have not been able to fall asleep the following night without taking it, so have been taking it every other night for about a week or so. However it seems like the nights I do take it I do not sleep very well, only about 4 or 5 hours and I feel bad the fiollowing day, tired, nauseous and jittery. I’m looking for ideas on why this may be occurring. Because it’s every other night, might this be withdrawal because my body sees it as a dose reduction but don’t understand why I would feel bad the day after I take it and not the day after I go without it. Not sure if I should take it every night whether I need it or not or if I should stop it altogether and try using trazodone on the nights I can’t sleep. I was on trazodone originally for the insomnia but was only getting about 3 hours sleep on it so doc switched to mirtazapine. At first I was getting 6 or 7 hours with the mirtazapine but only for the first couple weeks. I was looking for a mirtazapine group like this one with knowledgeable informative supporters but haven’t found any. One site I found before I found this one was an antidepressant group and I did not find them at all supportive or helpful. Well wanted to throw that out their and see if you guys have any advice that may be helpful and would be most appreciated. Hope you guys are doing well and thanks again for the thoughts and prayers.
Posted 01 May 2021 - 04:08 PM
That is such fantastic news mimi. Lets throw a party tonight!!
Some info from the ebook on mirtazapine...
REMERON (mirtazapine) Tablets are rapidly and completely absorbed following oral administration and have a half-life of about 20 to 40 hours.
Following oral administration, peak plasma concentrations are reached within about 2 hours.
Abrupt discontinuation of mirtazapine should be avoided when possible. Adverse effects have been reported upon discontinuation of the drug including nausea, vomiting, agitation, sensory disturbances, sweating, and headache.
With the max serum concentration being reached after 2 hours that is when you should be the sleepiest.
"However it seems like the nights I do take it I do not sleep very well, only about 4 or 5 hours and I feel bad the fiollowing day, tired, nauseous and jittery." The next day your blood plasma levels are still very high but dropping. This would indicate that these symptoms are probably a side effect. I will check the FDA information and be back soon
Posted 01 May 2021 - 04:23 PM
This is the best list I could find...
Posted 01 May 2021 - 05:05 PM
Thanks you for such a prompt response. My dose has always been 7.5, I cut the 15mg tablet in half.
I am very unsure as how to proceed, whether to continue as I have been, or take it every night whether I need it for sleep or not, or if I should just stop it and try to use trazodone again for nights I can’t fall asleep. I can’t figure out any reason why I can fall asleep on my own every other night and not every night and why I feel worse the day after I take the mirtazapine when it would seem I should feel better having had taken it. I am so very confused at this point.
on a very high note, today was freedom day for my daughter, two weeks since her second covid vaccine. She is married and her husband has very serious health issues so they had quarantined at home for the past year, I have only gotten to see her a few times when weather permitted, outside, with masks at a safe distance. Today I got to go to her home, which is less than a five minute drive from mine, for a visit and was greeted as I got out of my car with one of the best hugs I have ever gotten. I have missed her so much this past year because she is not only my daughter but my best friend. Her birthday is the middle of this month and it’s a big one, 40, and I am so glad that she will be able to come into my home for dinner for this one, last year it was in quarantine.
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Posted 02 May 2021 - 07:07 AM
"I can’t figure out any reason why I can fall asleep on my own every other night and not every night and why I feel worse the day after I take the mirtazapine when it would seem I should feel better having had taken it. I am so very confused at this point."
I fully agree.
Being able to see your daughter again is wonderful. It should help you deal with your stress a lot.
Posted 02 May 2021 - 08:27 AM
Hat, I see that I leave both of us confused, not unusual for me but highly unusual for you, my answer guy. Just a thought, maybe they are withdrawal symptoms I am having vs side effects, maybe the every other night constitutes a dose reduction of the mirtazapine,
Do you have any thoughts on how I should proceed, mirtazapine every night needed or not, mirtazapine when needed for sleep, forget the mirtazapine and use trazodone when needed for sleep. I don’t know what kind of withdrawal mirtazapine will have after being on 7.5 every night for about six weeks and then every other night for about 2 weeks. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. If anyone else has any thoughts please chime in and share your thoughts, frog, IUN, anyone.
Posted 02 May 2021 - 10:13 AM
Well if you take it every night and the symptoms are from side effects trhey will worsen. If you take it every third night and trhe symptoms worsen it will be withdrawal due to the up and down of serum levels.
Both mirtazapine and trazodone can be used for sleep and I really don't have a preference. There is no information on the body building up tolerance to mirtazapine.
Any withdrawal should fall in the uncomfortable stage for a month or two but certainly much less than most antidepressants.
I may do some digging into this issues later today.
Posted 02 May 2021 - 03:33 PM
Posted 02 May 2021 - 03:35 PM
Posted 02 May 2021 - 03:38 PM
Posted 03 May 2021 - 09:10 AM
Hat, thank you so much for the amazing research. I’ve started reading it but will have to continue later. Today is a really bad day again. Night before last fell asleep on my own and slept decently, the weather was beautiful yesterday and I felt good so we invited our daughter and son-in-law to come over and have dinner out on the patio. They came over around 3 and were here til 830. It was a wonderful relaxing afternoon and evening. After they left we straightened up and I headed up to bed about 915 because I had been up since 4 and was very tired. My husband stayed downstairs to read for a bit. I got into bed by 930 and could not fall asleep. When my husband came up at 11 I took the 7.5 mirtazapine because I was not falling asleep even though I was tired, relaxed and comfortable. I fell asleep about 1130 but woke up at 2 and unable to get back to sleep. Again I laid there for hours tired, relaxed and comfortable but simply could not sleep. Today I am nauseous, headache, tinnitus roaring and very tired. I simply do not know what to do. I do not have a clue how sleep is so different from one night to the next and I can’t figure out if mirtazapine is hurting or helping at this point. When I first started on mirtazapine it worked very well, was able to sleep 6 hours sometimes a little more and I felt slightly hungover the following morning but decent enough. Now I feel good on the days following the nights I fall asleep on my own without the mirtazapine, which is usually every other night. The following night I am unable to get to sleep and resort to,the mirtazapine after a couple hours of tossing and turning and being unable to fall asleep, then don’t sleep much at all and feel terrible the following day. We are supposed to go to the beach for a few days starting Wednesday and I am unsure if we should even go, when I feel this bad the day after very little sleep I would probably rather be at home than away. I feel absolutely horrible today, worse than any of the cymbalta withdrawal days and I simply don’t know what to do. I will finish reading the wonderful information you so generously researched and put together for me and perhaps find some more insight as to what’s happening. Thanks so much.
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Posted 03 May 2021 - 03:45 PM
Hat, after reading through the information you so kindly provided, and I do appreciate the intense effort it must have been to find all that information, I kind of think it may be withdrawal that is happening. I guess since for the last maybe 10 days I have been taking 7.5 miratzipine every other day it’s like a taper of my dose. Although I still can’t fathom why I feel worse the day after taking the dose rather than the day after I skipped the dose. But I think starting tonight I am going to take the 7.5 dose every night. I don’t feel ready to taper off of it at this time. I guess if a couple days go by and I’m not feeling and sleeping better I will have to decide whether to try a 15mg dose or get off of it whether I’m ready to or not. If you have any thoughts to add be sure that they are always much much appreciated. I value and respect your opinion immensely. You have my many thanks for all you do for me and others like me struggling through withdrawals and side effects. God bless and watch over you.
Posted 04 May 2021 - 07:18 AM
Sorry for my late input on this. The half-life of miratzipine is said to be between 20-40 hours - quite why it has so much variance I am not sure, but if you are closer to the 20 hours, then this could easily be a case of withdrawal, and therefore would be something that you would expect to improve with continued dosing, but perhaps a slightly smaller dose if you are currently taking a dose which appears to work better the second day when the plasma level will have been reduced. Logically, if you reduce that dose so the plasma level matches that of the second day on the 48 hour dose, then this would be a potential solution.
However, if this does not show benefit, then we would need to look elsewhere as to a solution.
Posted 04 May 2021 - 11:52 AM
IUN, thanks for yours thoughts, so much appreciated. Late input is better than no input, we all have lives outside of this forum. I take the mirtazapine usually about 930 pm and then I was skipping the next day and not taking it again until the following evening about 930 again so I was actually taking a dose every 48 hours so it probably was withdrawal. I just couldn’t seem to understand that the days I felt worse were the days after taking it. I also could not figure out why I was falling asleep on my own the evenings I did not take it and usually slept a little better as well. I don’t know, these drugs and their side effects and withdrawals on top of my chemo brain, it’s all just a mass of confusion. I really wanted to just stop it yesterday but I rethought it because there is a lot going on right now with grandkids ball games, daughters bday coming up soon and my husband wanting to get away for a couple days. I also figure it will give my brain a little more time to settle down after getting off cymbalta about 2 months ago and trimming my marijuana dose down to half, it’s now at 10cbd and 5 THC and I plan on keeping that there for the foreseeable future. However I would like to make another attempt at the mirtazapine, just hoping the insomnia has settled down by now. I just don’t feel like myself on any of these drugs, I feel foggy, slow and like my head is in the clouds, my thought process feels off. Again, thanks for coming to my aid with your much appreciated input. I hope you are doing well, I missed you while you were absent.
Posted 06 May 2021 - 07:46 AM
I am really confused and need some opinions or advice or something here. I went back to taking 7.5mg at night. Monday night I slept decently followed by a good day but pretty fatigued. Tuesday night I took mirtazapine again and slept decently again, maybe 5 to 6 hours and yesterday was a good day but a lot of fatigue. My husband I left in the morning and drove down to his brothers condo at the beach for a few nights. We had a good day yesterday but last night I again took the mirtazapine but couldn’t fall asleep. Monday and Tuesday I took it about 9 and was asleep by 1030 and slept off and on until about 5. Last night I took it again about 9 but didn’t fall asleep until about midnight then woke up 230 and was unable to fall back asleep. I was tired, comfortable and relaxed but just couldn’t transition to sleep. I dont know why this happens frequently. Sometimes I’m not really sure if it is helping with my insomnia or not. Do you think perhaps I should try updosing to 15mg or should I consider getting off mirtazapine. It is very difficult to get through these days with little or no sleep. Today there is a big arts and crafts festival outdoors at the inlet which we are supposed to go to, I will drag myself there but it’s just not enjoyable having to push through the day with no relief from the fatigue. Sorry to vent but I am getting so tired of being so tired and yet unable to sleep.
BTW I posted to another forum on mirtazapine to see if they had any ideas and all I got was being chastised for getting off cymbalta too fast and told to let them know when I want to get off mirtazapine and they’ll give me a taper schedule but they don’t do anything other than that. How disappointing.
Posted 06 May 2021 - 08:04 AM
Your comment about going to 15 mg of mirtazapine has a valid point. The 15 mg dose is considered the minimum effective dose and that may be why it does not provide sustainable benefit but there is so much variability in how people react to mirtazapine it is hard to say. Only one way to find out...use it for a few days and see...but the risk is a withdrawal if it doesn't work.
The key here is the Cymbalta withdrawal causing anxiety which prevents normal sleep from occuring. There are numerous supplements/drugs mentioned in the ebook that members have taken in order to control anxiety and sleep better. Maybe one of them can help.
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Posted 06 May 2021 - 11:32 AM
Hat, I really don’t know what to think or do. Doc attributed the insomnia to anxiety even though I told him I really didn’t feel anxious. I thought the insomnia was from all the antibiotics and health issues. I have never really felt anxiety except when tapering from these drugs, and I can tell it’s chemical anxiety because nothing settles it down, goes away when it’s ready to. I don’t think the cymbalta is playing a part in anything anymore. It is just so bad that the sleep is so erratic and unpredictable. When I wake up in the middle of the night and am trying to fall back asleep I do not feel anxious, I am tired, comfortable and relaxed just wondering why I’m not sleeping. It doesn’t even frustrate me as badly as it did because it’s out of my control so I just continue to lie there and rest until morning. I think taking the dose every other night was causing withdrawal effects from the mirtazapine so I was hoping going back to taking it every night would fix it. It worked well for the first maybe 5 or 6 weeks but after that seemed like it wasn’t working so well anymore. How many nights do you think I would have to take it at 15 to see if that helps and still be able to go back down to 7.5 without incurring withdrawal. If that was withdrawal from alternate night dosing, it was really difficult, more so than the cymbalta taper. I would like to just get off the mirtazapine and see what happens but the withdrawal effect I find most bothersome is the insomnia and I wasn’t able to sleep hardly at all prior to starting the mirtazapine. I don’t see my primary doc again until early June but I could message him and go in earlier, I’m just not sure what he would do, he doesn’t feel real comfortable working in this arena of drugs. He just says it’s all guess work and trial and error but I’m the one living with the trial and error. Sorry for rambling so much but I can’t seem to figure this out, I thought taking the mirtazapine in the beginning was a good option as it helped with sleep a lot in the first several weeks, then not so much.
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