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#1 Melanie123

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:17 AM

Hi! I am so happy to have found this website! I feel less alone

 

I was taking 90mg a year ago and decreased to 60 mg with almost no withdrawal....

 

I am on day 4 or decreasing from 60mg to 30mg. I’ve been dealing with a lot of brain zapps, nausea, dizziness, headache and a little bit of anxiety. So far it’s manageable but I don’t know how long the side effects will last. I’ve also been taking half of a clonazepam if needed. Should I maybe be lowering my dose more incrementally by bead counting? How long do these symptoms can last? Also, are there any tricks to help with the withdrawal like vitamins or supplements? I am a mom of 2 and working full time, I don’t want this to get worse.

 

Thanks for your response and sorry if my english is not so good, I am french :)

 

Melanie


#2 fishinghat

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:46 AM

Welcome Melanie

 

You may be able to handle the withdrawal from 60 to 30 mg but should definitely consider bead counting below 30 mg. These symptoms typically get much worse (although there certainly are exceptions) as you drop below 30 mg. It has been my experience that those members who take longer to wean have much better success.  I strongly recommend you start out planning on at least a 1 year wean and preferably a 3 year wean. The three year wean is much more likely to keep you more stable and functional. 

 

As far as how long the symptoms last...  Well that varies but typically 6 months to 2 years so the idea is to go slow enough that the symptoms are tolerable. If symptoms do get too bad then it often proves necessary to stop weaning for 2 to 6 months to bring back any stability.

 

I would also recommend taking a look at our free ebook. It contains notes on what has helped members and what has not, supplements, diet medical research and much more. The link is...

 

https://pdfhost.io/v...of_Contents.pdf

 

I will also post a document below on what has most often helped members.

 

Do not hesitate to ask questions or just post to let off steam. We are here to help.

 

P.S. - No need to apologize, your English is perfect. No judgements on this site, just support.


#3 fishinghat

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 09:56 AM

Items Proven to Help Many with Cymbalta Withdrawal.
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Diphenhydramine, (over the counter) also known as Benadryl, is an antihistamine and as such is not only used for allergies/colds but also as a sleep aide. It does have a mild anxiolytic effect. May lower blood pressure and cause irregular heartbeats. Your body does build up tolerance to it after a few weeks. This medicine has many drug interactions.
Begins working in 15 to 30 minutes
Peak levels - 2 to 2.5 hrs
Half Life – 4 to 6 hrs
Use by members for anxiety releif and to help sleep is too numerous to mention. 
Diphenhydramine should NOT be taken with hydroxyzine. Drugs.com
 
serendipity - I found Benadryl to produce hangover effects, and cause palpitations when taken long term. Even if you wake up in the middle of the night, and can't get back to sleep, even a teeny amount (say, 15mg) can induce sleep again. 
 
Schmb - Benadryl worked on a limited basis for me, because sometimes it makes me jittery, and that only made the zaps much worse, so just use some caution in case you are sensitive to it.
 
FH - One caution on benadryl. It is famous for bad reactions with other medicine so check your compatibility closely. The maximum dosage of benadryl is 25 to 50 mg every 4 to 6 hours and do not surpass 300 mg in a day.
 
Benadryl Total
Medicinal ingredients:
•Acetaminophen, 500 mg
•Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride, 25 mg
•Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, 30 mg
 
It contains diphenhydramine which is the active ingredient in regular Benadryl and also pseudoephedrine which is common in most cold medicines. The Diphenhydramine helps with sleep and anxiety and the pseudoephedrine helps block the action of adrenaline which produces a calming effect. 
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Omega 3
Dose - Omega 3 is recommended at 2000 mg/day EPA and DHA for anxiety, give or take a couple hundred depending on what research you read. It has been shown that only the EPA and DHA components effect anxiety. Any other omega 3 fatty acids don't do anything for anxiety. Life Extensions, Mega EPA/DHA, is distilled (molecularly purified) so you don't get any impurities with your product plus it contains no mercury. Some even provide a certificate of analysis if requested. They also have ones that are enteric coated now that will not irritate the digestive track and has no fish burbs to them. 
 
This thread contains a detailed discussion on use of Omega 3.
 
Also this thread....
 
Fishinghat - Omega 3 fish oils can be very high in mercury depending on the type of fish used. Some have tested at over 300 ppm mercury. There are brands out there that are mercury free or low mercury guaranteed. Something to think about. If you have thyroid issues they usually contain high iodine concentrations also. One member had an episode of high iodine toxicity I couldn't find a iodine free product. If your thyroid is fine then this should not be an issue.
 
Warning
Arrhythmias
Omega 3
3 Grams of omega 3 per day can worsen cardiac arrythmias.
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Melatonin
FH - a research article where it was shown that taking 0.7 mg of liquid melatonin under the tongue (sublingual) helps with anxiety. Place it under the tongue until dissolved and gone. In case you are not familiar with melatonin it is the chemical your body produces in the evening to make you sleepy and ready for bed. 
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Gatorade
 
Many members found Gatorade to be considerable help in fighting most withdrawal symptoms, especially the green gatorade.
 
Kindorf - Also I have been avoiding caffeine, so I cut out my coffee and sweet tea.
I replaced then with fruit juice, (mainly apple juice) water and Gatorade. Today no stomach cramps I think they are done. No diarrhea, Lord I hope that is gone. 
 
Judy -  I knew that Gatorade helped with the light-headed, "floating brain" feelings. 
 
watchdog -  Drinks LOTS of GREEN gatorade..... don't know what the deal is, but it helps.
 
wiraz - Drink at least one G2 Gatorade a day – stay away from the full sugar version, leads to a higher chance of diarrhea. I drink one 32 oz bottle every day plus tons of water!!
 
caroline - Vit E also for head and joints and then Gatorade's G2. I didn't want the sugars so I went with the G2
 
Rafael -  I have mild brain zaps but I believe the omega 3 Fish Oil and Gatorade are helping.
 
Sandlion - I took fish oil/other Omega 3 and also found that Gatorade helped -- maybe it's the salt replacement after all the nightsweats.
 
guppie -  I'm a month off the drug so only minor zaps now and then. Whoever gave the gatorade advice is a genius. That treats them instantly (make sure you get the low calorie gatorade since regular is high calorie). Brain zaps are minor. I grab a gatorade and that gets rid of those for a bit (electrolytes). 
 
Alisha - gatorade-had one of the big bottles yesterday and it did seem to help,
 
Vinvin - The Fierce Green Apple Gatorade, Dramamine and Boylan's Ginger Ale seem to help out as well 
 
Summary - Many members mentioned drinking Gatorade for the electrolytes after diarrhea, night sweats and when having brain zaps. G2 was often mentioned because it has no sugar (not true, see below). Also, it was suggested that one should not just rely on Gatorade alone for hydrated but should also drink plenty of water. Green Gatorade is highly recommended by some members.  Vitylite and Powerade were also mentioned a couple times for electrolytes. I would also recommend Isopure as it comes with and without sugars and proteins with a similar amount and type of electrolytes as Gatorade.
 
G2 Gatorade - It has the same amount of sugar as regular Gatorade and nearly all the same ingredients and electrolytes.
 
Gatorade Fierce Green Apple Sports Drink - This may be the "green  gatorade" that members spoke of. It contains malic acid, the active ingredient in apple cider vinager which has proved so helpful to other members. Other ingredients are the same.
 
Isopure Zero Carbs - No sugar, with some calcium. Contains Malic acid
Isopure Mass - With sugar and proteins, with calcium, Contains Malic acid
Isopure zero carb with proteins - no sugar, contains proteins. With calcium  Contains Malic acid
 
Sparkybird - I’ve found that Pur Aqua Sparkling Frost in any flavor has malic acid. I discovered it by accident. It is only 50 cents at Aldi’s. It is only 10 calories a bottle.
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L-theanine 
L-theanine is an amino acid precursor to glutamate (involved in the synthesis of GABA) and glutamine. It can cross the blood brain barrier. It is only produced by plants and fungi and a component in some teas. It inhibits glutamine transporters and glutamate transporters, and thus blocks the reuptake of glutamine and glutamate. Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. Caution – Most plants that contain L-theanine also contain caffeine and it can be a significant contaminant in L-theanine supplements. It is synthesized from glutamate using the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase and pyridoxal phosphate (which is the active form of vitamin B6) as a cofactor. This process converts glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter, into the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter (GABA).
 
Member's comments
(puritan's pride) 200 mg capsules 2- 3/ day. I have been taking this prior to cymbalta detox. It helped me reduce my dosage of clonazepam. Within 20-30 mins I feel more calm. I do believe it is helping keep the anxiety in check.
 
Tinabee - For now I have started taking fish oil and a supplement called Theanine Serene that is supposed to help with anxiety. I know it sounds silly since I've only taken the anxiety supplement for a couple days but I really feel like it has helped.
200mg L-Theanine in the morning with a full glass of water on an empty stomach, you can take again in late afternoon 100 to 200 mg if needed (make sure it is suntheanine - it helps with headaches and pain as any painkiller I had just did not cut it)
Member's comments were generally favorable.
 
Page 1 and 2, detailed information on L theanine and its usage.
Research
The research shows that all green tea leaves contain both L-theanine and D- theanine BUT only the special processing used by the manufacturer produces pure L-Theanine and is the choice of many of the research biologists.
 
 
Five of the six products contained significant amounts of D-theanine. Only one product, SunTheanine, appeared to contain only the L-theanine enantiomer. D-theanine is not used by the humnn body.  Suntheanine is the pure ingredient and that is what you want. 
 
Key Points
Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. 
Scientific Information
A National Standard monograph that reviews current research on theanine reports that it is likely safe in doses of 200–250 mg up to a maximum daily dose of 1,200 mg. Theanine is used to help with anxiety, blood pressure control, mood, and cognition. 
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Prescription Meds
Clonidine
Clonidine  (Catapres, Kapvay, Nexiclon, Clophelin) is a classic blood pressure medicine BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha adrenergic antagonist which means it stimulates the alpha adrenaline synapses located in the frontal lobes of the brain. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a person get to sleep and stay asleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it (1 or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos.  These have no withdrawal but your blood pressure may spike for a couple weeks if you cold turkey. Due to the lowering of blood pressure and sleepiness it is common for the patient to start with ½ tablet at bedtime. Once the patient adjusts to the medicine they begin a ½ tablet in the morning. As sleepiness and blood pressure stabilize they are slowly worked up to the 2 tablets (0.1 mg each) a day. 
Begins working 60 to 90 minutes
Peak levels – 3 to 5  hrs
Half Life – 12 - 16 hrs
There are too many research articles on clonidine's anxiolytic properties to list here.
 
FH - I started clonidine but it was a relief to me NOT to be able to feel my heart pound through my chest. As long as your bp is OK you shouldn't have a problem. 
That is why the slow start up. This gives your heart a chance to adapt to the new med. I did the same slow start up and my bp stayed within normal range. Just keep monitoring your bp and you should be OK.
 
FN - clonidine worked wonders for me 
 
Hydroxyzine, (Vistaril, Atarax) - is an H(1)R antagonist, is very effective against anxiety in most people but some get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal but it also can lower blood pressure some but that usually goes away with time. This medicine should be started slowly to give your body a chance to adjust to the blood pressure effect. Normal dose is 25 mg four times a day but can go as high as 400mg/day.
Begins working in 30 minutes or less
Peak levels - 2  hrs
Half Life – 15 to 20 hrs
Do not take with cimetidine as it increases hydroxyzine levels in the blood.
 
(Mayo Clinic)
For oral dosage forms (capsules or suspension): 
To help control anxiety and tension: 
Adults—50 to 100 milligrams (mg) 4 times a day. 
 
Atenolol is a beta 1 adrenergic receptor antagonist, also known as a beta blocker. It does not pass  through the blood brain barrier which limits its side effects compared to other beta blockers. It has been linked to a higher risk of type 2 diabetes. It may cause drowsiness and lower blood pressure. Typical dosage around 25 mg four times/day. Dosage should be slowly increased.
Begins working in 30 minutes to an hour
Peak levels – 2 – 4 hrs
Half Life – 6 - 8 hrs
SF - So now I am on one. It is called Atilonol (Atenolol?) and calms down your heart rate too.
 
Buspirone (Buspar) is a seratonin 5-HT1A  receptor partial agonist and a dopamine antagonist at the receptors. It functions as a weak anti-anxiety medication similar to diazepam in strength (a weak benzo). No withdrawal or tolerance issues. Dosage should be kept low if taking a ssri and/or snri or St. John's Wort as it may cause seratonin syndrome. DO NOT take with grapefruit or grapefruit juice. May lower blood pressure. Typical dosage is 10 to 20 mg three times per day.
Begins working 3 to 7 days after begin dosing
Peak levels - 1  hrs
Half Life – 2 - 4 hrs
Buspar (15mg) and Melatonin (3 mg) yielded the best anti-depressant effect of any combination concentration tested. (See Melatonin below)
Buspar and melatonin in combination is anxiolytic.
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Dos and Don'ts
 
DON'T ...
take Omeprazole (Prilosec)
Significant drug interactions.
omeprazole ↔ citalopram
Applies to omeprazole and Celexa (citalopram) 
Talk to your doctor before using citalopram together with omeprazole. Combining these medications may increase the blood levels of citalopram and increase the risk of certain side effects, including an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious or life-threatening. 
Caution - Omeprazole causes the increased absorption of nearly 500 medications. It should NOT be taken with.....
Benzos, Atenolol, Celexa, Lexapro and many other ssri and snri, st. john's wort, etc.
 
take St. John's Wort, 5HTP, tryptophan, SAMe, Dextromethorphan (a cough syrup/cold medicine) with an antidepressant - Serotonin Syndrome.
 
Don't take Stimulants (Make anxiety worse)
Caffeine 
Over-the-counter cold preparations contain phenylpropylamine and pseudoephedrine*
Sleep deprivation
Marijuana*
Magnesium*
MSG
Alcohol
Stress
amphetamines
ecstasy
nicotine
Ginseng
L-Tyrosine 
B Vitamins*
aspartame
Coconut Oil 
Taurine 
DHEA 
Ginkgo 
Iodine 
Arginine
Sugar
Kava
* - Only some people have this reaction.
 
Things containing caffeine..
Coffee, Espresso, Cappuccino, some Teas,  Low calorie, non-cola soda containing aspartame,  Low calorie colas containing aspartame or saccharine, Energy drinks, Some types of alcoholic drinks.
Chocolate ....Baking, Dark, Sweet and semisweet, Pudding, Cereals, Fudge , Milk chocolate, Syrup, Mousse, Soymilk, Fat free cookies, Cookies, Cake, Frozen Yogurt, Ice cream, Frosting, and Shakes .
Java Pops, Chai Mints, Green Tea, Warp Mints, Penguin mints, and cinnamons. Caffeinated Energy Strips, Caffeinated Fruity Lollipops, HyDrive Energy Chews, Caffeinated Nixie Tubes, Foosh Energy Mints, Atomic Energy Bites, Buzz Bites, KickBricks, Energy Chews, Reload Energy Strips, Movit Gummies, Caffeinated jellybeans, Morning Spark, Oatmeal, Sumseeds (caffeinated sunflower seeds), Lightning Rods (beef sticks), Engobi "Energy Go Bites" (crispy snacks), Jolt Gum, Blitz Energy Gum, Think Gum Stay Alert, Vibe Black, Black Go Fast!, Dozens and dozens of herbal supplements.
List of energy drinks with caffiene. (over 100)
 
take Depressants (Make depression worse)
Oxalic acid is found in members of the spinach family and cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, chives and lamb's quarters are high in oxalates, as are sorrel and parsley. Rhubarb leaves contain about 0.5% oxalic acid.
Can cause depression, lack of minerals, kidney stones, and more. Cooking does not affect oxalic acid. People with kidney disease, a history of kidney stones or suffer from depression should avoid these foods. 
other depressants:
Aspartame
Gluten
High Fat Dairy
Sugar 
alcohol
Trans fats
Sodium 
Caffiene
Pesticide residue on foods
GHB
exposure to organic solvents (paint, varnish, stains, cleaning solvents, paint thinner, etc).
 
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Do
take 500 mg of vitamin C per day or 300 mg of NAC - (N-acety cysteine) an antioxidant
learn Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Mindfulness
sleep as much as possible
Keeping a Journal  - Don't trust your memory during withdrawal.
Stay hydrated

#4 Melanie123

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 08:48 AM

Thanks A LOT for your advices... Yesterday was a good day but this morning is awful. My anxiety is pretty bad, I feel like I am going to be sick  and for whatever reason I feel a big rage inside of me...I took my 30mg at 6am(3 hours ago) and just took a clonazepam to see if it helps. All of this is normal ? Will it get worst? Should I take more than 30mg?

Thanks again


#5 fishinghat

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 09:29 AM

Well quite simply, yes this is normal. The rage and anger will later be mixed with crying spells and even fear. It can be a wild rollercoaster.  

 

Updosing when symptoms get bad is usually unproductive and can lead to side effects like dizziness, confusion, etc. Also, updosing just means you have further to wean off later. 

 

You made the drop from 60 to 30 less than a week ago so it is likely it will get a worse before it gets better. I wish I could be more positive but after being on this site for 9 years I have seen the ugly truth about this experience. 

 

If you decide to try any supplements please try only one at a time. If you try several at once it would be very difficult to determine which ones help or which ones cause any type of side effect.


#6 Melanie123

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 10:09 AM

I know it's different for everybody but when you say  it get worst before it gets better, are we talking about days, weeks? I have an app with my doc tomorrow to see what he says because he wants to change my medication...I don't know at what mg we will make the switch to the other meds. Sorry if I have so many questions and worries


#7 fishinghat

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 03:22 PM

No need to apologize. Usually gets worse and worse during the first 7 to 10 days after a drop and recovery can take 2 to 6 months.


#8 invalidusername

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 08:03 AM

Bonjour mon ami...

 

Welcome to the forum and apologies for delay writing to you. First up I cannot see anywhere you have mentioned how long you have been on the Cymbalta. You mention a year ago in your first message, so have you been taking them for a year - or longer?

 

Hat has covered the most important stuff. Usually people will get to 30mg without too many problem and we would certainly recommend bead counting from there, but if you have just dropped to 30mg and had some issues then you do have choices. But as you are a week into the 30mg I would try to tough it out if you can. It WILL improve but you will certainly need to wait a while to stabalise before dropping any further. 

 

The rage and anxiety is absolutely normal for where you are - it will pass. Typically, it takes the body 7-10 days to get used to the drop and for blood levels to balance. You should start to see improvements after that - but you should not consider dropping further until you feel more like yourself. Then we can discuss bead counting. If you have had issues at 30mg, then you do need to bead count from here on.

 

Regarding additional medication from your doctor, I would kindly decline at the moment. You may need something to support your withdrawal but another antidepressant is one of the last options and far more things for you to try before this.

 

Can you let me know;

 

1) How long you have been taking the Cymbalta?

2) How you are feeling today?

3) What the doctor said and whether he/she has suggested any other medication - if so, the details please

 

Wishing you well. We will help you as best we can...

 

IUN





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