15 replies to this topic

[sweetchildof61]

I am edititng this question to and being direct and more open, if so maybe I can get more help. My husband only 51 years old, took his like on July 14, 2009. I am currently trying to get my support thourgh grief therphy, and throught the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and Awareness. If anyone would lilke to see static's on Suicide ,eductaion and support I highly recomed this web-site. I also have been on one "Out of the Darkness Walk" and participating in the the one in Houston on November 7th. If you would life to verfiy who I am you can go to this web-site and find in Honor of my husband, our team is called "While you are sleeping" A voice for Steve... I need and will edventulay get my Husbands story out. It was tragic and senceless. Starting from his medication change to Cymbalta, added Ambien CR (which I have seen on TV that and read is can worsen depression) the major mood changes in my husband, to himi not being able to tolarate the side effects of the Cymbalta to aburbtly stop takng it, but continued his Ambien CR, to watching his discenagrate, to going to the Mental Health Facitilty where we intrusted his life, 3 times, to tell his Doctor begging for help, to me calling them 4 times, with they didn't even give a " "that I was needing immediate help for my Husband. he needed to be committed to help him and I couldn't the Doctor could, and didn't. The entire system failed us. I do not believe there is not adequate medicaton management nor do (some) Doctors care to take the responsibilty to fully educate themselves on these medicatons nor follow through with there patients. This is why I am trying to get everybit of information I can, I am not computer swavy, so my searches don't turn up much, but they did lead me to here. I will not allow my Husbands passing to be in Vein. For I know if he was in his right mind, no cluttered with his brain chemistry going awire, due to these medications, lack of helath care or concern, I am on a misson, to help others, so if only one family can
be saved from what we are going through, one person. My husband would of never left his pride and joy, his shadow, what made his eyes full of life, our sweet precious grand daughter Layla who is 2 and 1/2 years old and talks of her Pap-Pap everyday. I am not in denial or trying to pass blame, but I saw, I witnessed the changes in my Husband, when these two medications were given to him, and what happend when he stopped the Cymbalta. And why the heck didn't his Doctor know that this can happen when stopping or even taking the Cymbalta? Or didn't care? Iggnorance. With all Sincerity, Lisa

[nursedeborah]

sweetchild,
I have taken both, and nothing happens.

Debbie

[nursedeborah]

Sweetchild,
I do know how he felt, or i should say that this medication turned me into someone that I
didn't even know. The mental anguish I was living in was pure hell, and I knew something
was wrong, but no one would listen to me.

I have found this true since I had my back surgey, but mostly when I have been telling them
how I have been feeling for over the 3 years that I was on Cymbalta. I too have thought so
much about killing myself, but just didn't do it as I didn't want ti leave my animals alone
until I was found, or to have my daughter have to find something like that, so I just lived
in my private hell all alone, I had no one who cared about what I was going through, they
had all left me after my back surgery.

I could no longer do anything, nor pull myself out of it, then every once in awhile I would
get a burt of energy, and feel so great thinking my normal life had come back only to have
to have it gone by morning, or a few hours. I no longer coul cook, shower, clean my home,
feel, find pleasure in anything I ever loved before. I was just numb, no feelings at all.

Whe I though my depression had gotten so bad it was untreatable I thought about getting
electrical shock treatment. Instead I went to my doc, and was bound to make someone
finally hear me. He cut my dose in half, and 6 days later I was really falling apart from
all the awful withdrawl symptoms, nightmares, sweating, abdominal pain, anxiety more
than I ever had before. So he tells me it's not the Cymbalta, but to go back to my full
dose. I was back to my old zombie self in a couple days, and then I knew it wasn't me,
but the Cymbalta.

I then went online, and saw that withdrawls for Cymbalta was everwhere, and I found this
place Aug 18, 09. This is what has saved me.

Doctor's know nothing about this drug, the side effects, how to take someone off it, or
about the withdrawls. All that info I learned here.

I too am trying all that I can to prevent anyone from ever having to live what I did, and
still have to live as I am withdrawling off the drug. I pray I will be ok, but know I have
a long ways to go.

Since Aug 31, being on 60 mg , I am down to 22 mg. I really had gone to fast there for
awhile due to my memory being so bad, but I am getting a bit more able to write things
down where I remember where I put them!!! So it is getting better.

I have heard different things about Ambien, that it stops working, cause anxiety, so I
have no doubt that it can affect us all differently, I am learning everday.

Please keep us posted, and keep coming back, and share. You will get the support you
need here, and information too.

Here is a site with withdrawl symptoms, see if you see any that you noticed
http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm

Debbie

[MaureenV]

Hi Tab,

You're right about suicide, and in fact death in general I think is handled even worse.


Can't speak for anywhere else, but Aust had to make great strides in recent years, with the drought affecting large parts of the countryside, it was obvious that the effect on (esp) men was fatal.

Feeling they needed to protect and provide for their family, they kept their despair to themselves, and some great programs were started in light of the appalling suicide figures coming out.

I'm sure these exist elsewhere too, but there's also a very highly regarded group here called beyond blue. It's helped that an ex premier of Victoria has done some amazing work (in contrast with my opinion of his efforts in office) to publicise the validity of talking about it, particularly for men, who are often brought up to feel that it's a weakness to admit to needing help.

In newspapers and on billboards all over Melbourne beyond blue have information encouraging people to seek help.

It has some great checklists - including the various ones that doctors etc use when evaluating depression. It was only when I did one of the checklists that I accepted, yep, I'm depressed, not just feeling sorry for myself.

For anyone who's interested, or doesn't know their local helpful websites the link is:

www.beyondblue.org.au


regards, Maureen.

[Junior]

Sweetchild

I am so sorry to hear of the death of your husband. Especially under the circumstances you have described. After having been (successfully) on Aropax (Paxil) for 10 years I only found out this year just how powerful these drugs are. But this is not the time to tell my story....

A lot of the SSRI's and SNRIs (such as Cymbalta) now carry a 'black box warning'. At least they do in Australia. I can't speak for other countries. They warn that taking these drugs can worsen depression, esp in the 18-24yo age group. It is known that healthy people can become depressed by using these drugs. With Cymbalta, there are reports of a 'healthy' (never having suffered mental illness) volunteer who, during the clinical trials of the drug, became so depressed that she hung herself. I've experienced the same feeling. Earlier this year I found that the Paxil wasn't working as effectively as it had in the past, so I switched to Lexapro. I was on that for 4 1/2 months and went from being stable mood-wise, to being increasingly restless, suffering low mood, insomnia, feeling 'electrically charged', and eventually, to wanting to slit my wrists. The thing with the desire to slit my wrists is that it was an urge - and it was getting stronger. I'm just grateful that I was aware that it was the drug and not me actually suffering from depression.

I applaud you for wanting to raise awareness and to advocate for suicide prevention. In your quest to gather information I would like to recommend another forum to you. There are some very knowledgeable people who know a lot about SSRI/SNRI withdrawal and its effects. I have seen some excellent advice given out by the people who run and moderate the side. http://www.paxilprog... ... ay.php?f=7

Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
Junior

[sweetchildof61]

Thankyou all for replying. Debbie yes, I just saw your messages on here. I broke my toe yesterday, go figure, that's just how things keep going. But, I have not been able to read over the message's as I will try later this evening. My daughter that moved in with me, had to go to work tonight, so I am having to watch my presious grand daughter Layla. With this "painful" big ,fat ,swollen,blue and purple big toe that feels like your whole foot is broken. I can laugh at this moment, last night all night, tears. But my daughter along with my granddaughter besidemy other children that live in Texas, have been my saving Grace. So tonight, laying on the sofa, watcing Sponge Bob, Ice age and happy feet. I will read and reply when I can get on here with no distractions. Till then, thank you all. Lisa

[MaureenV]

Hi Lisa,

OUCHIES!!


Isn't it amazing how we don't notice those little bits of our body until they hurt!!


Hope you get a chance to have a look at the beyond blue link I posted. You may have something similar there, but if not, it would be worth considering.

In Victoria this website (and depression) have the HUGE advantage of having as their spokesperson the ex-premier of Victoria, a very self assured and er, vocal alpha male. To have someone with this sort of public image keep promoting depression, and the TOPIC of depression, ESPECIALLY for men has, i think, been invaluable.


(I'm not suggesting anything about men being more susceptible to depression, just that I think for many men, actually admitting the problem even to themselves is difficult - some seem to treat it as a 'weakness' that they should be able to overcome.)

Have fun with Layla, I've no doubt she's gorgeous.


kind regards, Maureen.

[Junior]

Sweetchild

OUCH! Can I be (a bit) trivial and ask which toe? I broke my big toe once, playing sport, and it took 3 x-rays to find the break (my toe was like yours, swollen and BLACK), 4 weeks in which it didn't heal and I then had to convince the ortho surgeon that I DID need to put it in a cast. Why do male Drs (no offense, if there are any male DRS reading this) think that mothers of young children can put their feet up? Yeah right. And who is going to do the housework? Anyway... 4 weeks after putting a cast on my foot, it finally healed. But (there is always a but), because I'd been unable to walk on it for the 8 weeks, the muscles in my ankle were weak. Then I had to learn to walk normally again. You don't realise how 'bendy' your foot is and how it moulds to things like stones when we walk over them, let alone how you naturally bend you foot as you take each step.

Sorry, don't mean to scare you. I'm sure your experience won't be as prolonged as mine :)


Maureen

I actually received a mailout from Beyond Blue tonight! In it there is a checklist of depressive symptoms and a fridge magnet. It's funny, I hated Jeff Kennett when he was Premier but now I really admire the wonderful work he is doing. Hubby actually had the pleasure of hearing him speak at a prof development thing. He said he had no notes, just got up there, put his hand in his pocket, and spoke. Hubby said he had the audience in the palm of his hand and that he'd walk over hot coals to hear him speak again. And hubby is not easily impressed!

Cheers
Junior

PS - Had my 2nd home visit today with work. My team leader and I basically did it as a joint thing and she was very pleased with how I went. She particularly likes how I've incorporated some of her feedback from Monday into how I conducted myself today. A confidence booster :)

[nursedeborah]

Lisa,
Ok "Ouch" I too have broken a toe, well actually all of them! I used to always run into the
concrete things that you pull up into a parking place, or the other place I would always be
breaking my toes was on my waterbed frame, as the way it was built it stuck out on the ends,
so I broke many toes several times over the years. I just got used to it, hope yours is healing
without a hitch!

So anyway how are you doing? How are your feeling? What have you been up too? Did you have
fun taking care of your grandaughter, no doubt!


I see that junior already told you about the lady who hung herself in the shower of the bathroom
where the study was done, I also heard a few other did too, and that several left the study after
that. Gee wonder why? This was never reported to the FDA, why would they tell? These people are
out to make money. I do know how this drug mad me feel , and how it ruined me, and my life so
I totally can se why a person would take their life while on this drug. I still am battleing something
that I do not know how long will last.

The only thing I can do is pray to God to cure me from the effects of this drug, and that I don't stay
damaged for ever from what it did to me on it.

Well let me know what is going on with you, ok?

Love,
Debbie

[sweetchildof61]

Dear all,

Thank you all for your replies, and concern. My toe, is the worst broken toe I ever had! I know tha it had to be the depression and the abrubt withdrawl from Cymbalta. And also, there is a warning about worsening depression and sucidal thoughts if you are suffering from a Mental Illness, if you are not coinsiding wiht a depression medicine which my husband stopped. The neurologist at the hospital explained to me what happens to your brain (neotransmitters etc) when you stop taking antidepressents. He new more about this I would say then my husbands physcritist. But, also, it was pure neglect on there part. yes, I am angry. We intrusted my husbands health, well being, life to his Doctor's care. There is so much that needs to be changed in this society.

Myself, I had a frontal lobe brain injury in 1995. I have no choice but to take medicatons. I take Lexapro. I Doctor I had at theBrain Injury Program in Maryland was educated and cared though. Unlike what I have found with 80 percent of the Doctors I have come in contact after moving back to Louisiana.

I use to know when my depression was my chemistry or just added stress I may have been going through at the time. Today, since my husband took his life, I don't know anymore. I do know I have to take and active role in my mental health care. Unfortunaly, I wish I would have been with my husband when the Doctor changed him from Prozac to Cymbalta. He was suffering from PSTD, anxity and severe depression, due to 2 back surgries, refuse a 3rd, loss of his job, had to go on disability 2 years ago, and he could not o the physical things he use to. My husband was feeling like a failure. His depression was worsening, as I would try to tell him, all that does not matter to me, I loved him no matter what, I have read the static's on suicide and the rate among men at his age is much higher. And they have no updated it since 2005.
I want to scream to the world on all area's... There is so much that needs to be addressed. Themost important is STIGMA, education, prevention and especially the education that Doctor's should know and watch for when they perscribe mediation, everyone is diffrent. And they need to not just treat wiht a pill, but they need to get to the core. I am reading every web-site I can. I have found 3 that are most helpful. I am scared, scared I am never going to get over this. Scared I am getting obsessed. Most of all I just wish I could hold my husbands hand one more time, I'd never let it go.
And yes, I have found ones turn there heads now, when I need love and support the most. I live in a rural town and not one of my neighbors talks to me anymore. I've reached out to many, myphone harldy rings, only family. Even the church. It's hard. And what's the shame is Suicide is the 7th leading cause of death in men my husbands age, the 3rd I belive in young adults, it's and eopedimic. We have lost more soilders from Suicide, than we have lost in the actual "war". Why? I will post some links later for all tha want information.But,I know this is a site for
Cymbalta withdrawl. But we all do have something in commen, our silent suffering. My Husband ended his, but he didn't have too. I wish he could of know that, and in his healthy mind, I know he would of known that. The pain of losing one to suicide is inbearable. All the if I's, could I's? I know it's not my fault, but yes there is guilt. And alsothe ugly things people said when " the new's paper wihtout my consent or knowledge released my husabands suicide. It was News worthy for people to gossip about and judge. I wanted a follow up due to I wanted my Husband's voice to be heard. The truth. Do I go up on my anti depressents while I am grieving? Do I just walk through it like I am trying and let time help heal?
My grand daughter is beautiful. And she speaks of her "Pap-Pap" everyday, kisses his pictures, hugs his shirt, she is 2 1/2 years old. It chokes me up so. But, she is my "saving grace". But, I am very non-funcitional. I can love her, read to her, play with her, and watch Tv with her, snuggle her, but I can't do much of anything else. I can't even bathe lately. I can't imagine the pain my husband was in mentally to take his own life.It had to be 100 percent pure hopelessness. And as I state it shuld of happend it should of been and could of been prevented. And that is waht tears my soul up, his pain and knowuing it should bnot of happened. Love and blessings to all. Sincerly, Lisa

[MaureenV]

Hello Lisa,

Thank you so much for sharing all of that.

My understand is that there are five stages of grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

I'm also of the understanding that people take different amounts of time to 'get through' the different stages, and that there's obviously some overlap between the stages for people.

Given your circumstances, and the time frame, I would have thought it unreasonable of anyone to expect you to be 'through' this process by now.

Remember though, that all of the rest of the world can't actually identify with you, and what you're experiencing; they don't have the faintest idea of what it is you need from them. I'm not suggesting that they're ALL saints in disguise, but you can bet your bottom dollar that there are a fair number of them out there who would do something to help if only they knew what to say or do. Personally, if I were one of your neighbours or church community, I would be agonizing over what to say to you that wouldn't make you feel worse: mention your husband ?/ NOT mention your husband?; ask how you are? ask after your grand-daughter as though all is well? Sometimes we imperfect humans take the cowardly option and just turn away thinking that it's better to say nothing than to risk upsetting.

I have a personal example: one person I knew from work, friendly but not overly close, small company, only about 50 employees, so not intensely involved with other employees but we all knew each other quite well. Lost her only surviving family member at 35, just as they'd been planning an overseas trip together. I kept putting off ringing / writing because I JUST COULDN'T FIND THE WORDS, until I bumped into her in the street, and blurted out in an embarrassed voice: 'sorry I haven't been in touch, I just didn't know what to say'. Her response was that 'it's o.k., nobody does'. I managed to get out 'come out to dinner with me, you may hate the idea, but hopefully you'll feel better when you do'. She agreed to come; when we were out she agreed she hated being out, but the next day she told me she DID feel better after she got home. I should add she wasn't depressed, just devastated. We're still friends. But if I hadn't bumped into her and been forced to say something, I probably never would have.

I may be way off the mark here, but can I make a suggestion. Pick someone who's been friendly to you in the past, and you think is a good person. Ask them if they'll come over for a cup of tea, saying 'it will do me the world of good'. They may be embarrassed at such open grief, but I bet they'll come.

As I said, I may be way off the mark. Suicide, especially male suicide does NOT have the overtones here that you feel are around you there. Every single newspaper article here about suicide and depression ends with the web address and/or phone number of beyond blue , Suicide help line , and /or Lifeline.

I know you want to work for change, so perhaps that's something you could look at if it's not already happening in your area??

Keep in touch with us here,

We can't pretend to know how you feel, but we will try to listen.

Maureen. xx

[Junior]

Lisa

Thank you so much for sharing your pain. It's always good to tell SOMEONE - even if it's only on the net. I doubt that any of us can imagine how hard all of this is for you. But then, I'm not sure many understand how painful not being able to have another child (my only child - a boy - has autism /intellectual disability / adhd) was for me. What we DO understand is emotional pain. We've all experienced it and we can all relate to the feelings you are having.

Maureen is right about the stages of grief... generally it is shock (the numbness), denial, anger, guilt, depression (just feeling low, not Major Depression) then resolution. Unfortunately there is no easy way to get through it. You just have to let it happen. It is a normal and natural process. I wouldn't think you would need to increase your medication but I don't know the extent of your frontal lobe injury so I can't say for sure.

As for your concern about becoming obsessed: there is a Freudian psychological defense mechanism that may be in action here. I think it's 'sublimation', for memory. It is a coping thing whereby you turn things around and kind of 'champion the cause'. There is nothing wrong with it. If we were to go in and tear down people's defenses, we would destroy those people. As for championing the cause, it is people like you get things done. I've seen it in the world of autism where parents get on committees and lobby for change. YOU GO GIRL!!!

I also agree with Maureen on the topic of others not knowing how to approach you. So maybe if you approach them (or one, as Maureen suggested) and tell them what you need. My sister in law unfortunately lost her 1 month old baby and just a week or so after called in to see me. I didn't know what to say to her and I told her that. She said, "that's ok, no one else does either". I think she was grateful that I was honest. Maybe others around you need YOU to tell THEM what you need.

By the way, if you haven't already, I would definitely report this to the FDA and to Elli Lilly. Not that Elli will do anything, from what I've heard. Still, they need to know what this drug is doing to people.

Hope your toe improves soon. Not much fun having to 'hop' around ;-p
Junior

[nursedeborah]

Lisa,
Everyone has already said everything I could think to say. What I do want to tell you is that
I did see the commerical last night for Ambien, and it does says that it is not to be given
to someone with depression, as it can cause suicuide.

I hope that you get a lawyer for all of this too!

Debbie

[sweetchildof61]

Aain, thank you so musch to all. It is hard when you are isolated. I promise I ave reached out, I know death can make ones feel uncomfortable. Especailly when it's Suicide. I now I need a support group for it. There is nt one here. I will be moving as soon as my daughter's X-husband goes off to Afganastain. Forgive my spelling. and also when we get the $$$ together. ON a note Katrina, really hurt Louisisana a already hurting state, and obression is everywhere. So many programs have been cut out, dueto our governor cut or medical budget by 50 percent and put a hiring freeze for the State. So, that may be a big reason why I can't get the support. I am moving to texas where my Mom and Dad, live, here I am 48 and going to live wiht my parents. I am blessed though. Then I go back and forth to Houston whre my 2 of my daughters live and layla will be. My Son is also there. If I didn't have my children and Layla, I feel I have no point. But, I know I do. Honestly in a small Catholic/Baptist, there are very stong views on Suicide. And it's also fear I am sure. I know people may not know wha to say, I have been there also, but, its more the feeling of abondoment and isolation. And In the Newpaper about his Suicide, there was nothing in the end of this giving help numbers, to say the least. People blogged on the article and the most cruel, viscious things were said. My daughter Jordan go into arguments via blogging, and she also reported abuse the newpaper about the blogging. She printed out the blogs, whe wanted to keep it from me and I found them. But, this is another reason we should adovocate on the STIGMA and ignoance of Mental Health. Luckly when I do move, it cant soon enough, I find our home, we rent, but it has lost it's purpose. besides, I can't make it $ right now. Reality. That stress is the one my husband worried about all the time. We went through everything we had, when he became diasabled.Which I can't tell you how that added to a 51 year old man's feeling of self worth. Thank you all for you comforting words.
I am so glad you saw the commerical for "AMBIEN" and its effects of depression and suicide.I did not see it till after Steve took his life. I do have an attorny, the way the his Doctor neglence on Steve's Mental Health and the medications. He is doing much research. I do not have faith in the system. There are to many legal loop holes. Do you releaize what this may means if we do have legal recorse? For the Mental Health communtiy. That's why I do not have faith this case will go forward. But, I hope it does, so we can get the reconition of what is happening! That is it, I do not want money, I want awarenss, education on these medications for these Doctors and for the Doctors to educate the patiens and thre families, change. I have no idea though how to or what yet to put my main focus on. But, I know it should be about education on these medications, the Doctors and Pharmacutial Compines. Ha- congress can not even fight them, how can I ? but, I will... Please pray for my strength to carry on..
Back to me moving, there is much more support for suviviors of suicide in Texas. the Amercian Founation for Suicide Prevention and Awarness has a local chapter in Austin. This will be so wonderful for me. They actually have trained suvivors, case workers, come to your house and meet with you.Always tell the ones you love so, always, every chance you get, you never know what can happen, I do not want anyone to have any regrets... Peace be with you, Lisa

I will,post some web-sites soon.

[MaureenV]

Hi Lisa,


thank you so much for sharing your story. Yes, I can well imagine how Katrina affected Louisiana. After the initial burst of donations and support coming from everywhere, life settles down and communities find that the basis for their economic well-being has been torn apart. Which then, of course, impacts on support programs etc. Often this impact is not seen until a few years down the track, when the rest of the world has moved on to the next tragedy.

I'm glad that at least you have your children and Layla.


keep in touch,


Maureen.

[nursedeborah]

Oh Lisa,
Thanks for sharing from your heart. I know you will be a great advocate for this when you
get all settled.

It is so sad about what did happen where you live, and all that was cut. Then it's like people
have just all forgotten about it, and the people living there.

I was not sure if you had seen the commerical about the Ambien or not, and that's why I
posted that for you.

I am glad you do have a lawyer, and pray to God that you will win a very large settlement!
They need to pay for what they did, and didn't do. I also think his own doctors were not
even close in giving him the care he needed, or the meds!!

I am so happy for you that you do get to move away from there, and make a new start, who
cares how old you are, heck your young!!!

Just know we are all here for you.

Love,
Debbie