Help?.Hell, nausea, blinding headache, uncontrollable crying
#1
Posted 22 November 2009 - 03:21 PM
amanda
- Drybananna likes this
#3
Posted 22 November 2009 - 03:57 PM
#5
Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:12 PM
#6
Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:51 AM
Welcome to the forum.
The symptoms you describe are, unfortunately, characteristic of Cymbalta withdrawal. For me the worst hit at Day 4 (severe upper abdo pain, GI distress, unable to eat anything 'heavy', etc) and the pain was strong enough to send me to the Drs. I did say it might be withdrawal but he decided to investigate anyway. Two weeks later my test results had come back normal and all the symptoms had disappeared. By then I had more knowledge about C withdrawal. I had cold turkeyed from 60mg, thinking it was a starting dose and had only been on it for 19 days. If i'd known then what I know now, I would definitely weaned rather than going C/t.
Having said that, you've also been on a bit of journey in recent months, trying different medications. Unfortunately, because they all work differently, switching can throw the brain chemicals completely out of balance. I switched from Paxil for over 10 years (it was becoming ineffective), to Lexapro (4 months), then Cymbalta - all in the space of just 6 months. When the Cymbalta withdrawal subsided I found myself suffering hypomania followed by severe insomnia. I went back onto the Paxil in a desperate attempt to regain my ability to sleep as sleeping tabs weren't doing anything. I probably upped the dose too early (20mg to 40mg- the dose I'd been on earlier this year) and suffered severe 'jittery' anxiety and I thought I was sliding into depression. All of this was chemically induced. Thanks to the help of my wonderful naturopath (and a few hundred dollars) I am now back on an even keel. It has taken 2 months to get me here and it is a journey I would not recommend to anyone.
I hope I'm wrong and that your symptoms are 'simply' C withdrawal. If that is the case it should settle within a couple of weeks. Let me know how you go.
Kind regards
Junior
#7
Posted 23 November 2009 - 05:16 AM
#8
Posted 23 November 2009 - 05:32 AM
Glad I could help. I've heard several people ask if they are now brain damaged (and not just from Cymbalta). The answer is NO. It's just that it can take weeks / months / in some cases even a couple of years, for the brain to heal properly. I've described what happens elsewhere but if you want me to repeat it I will. I just can't be bothered right now :-p
Cheers
Junior
#9
Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:25 AM
Thank you, again, for your help, Junior.
amanda
#10
Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:16 PM
I from southern California. I moved to Indiana a couple years ago and found winters to be really tough with the constant flat gray, cold and bareness. This year, my aunt suggested I go see a doctor about getting medicine for seasonal depression. I am not depressed in general. The doctor really took time to listen to me and discuss my history. The first medicine he put me on was lexapro. This medicine made me feel like I was constantly rolling on ecstasy. I stopped using recreational drugs about four years ago, so this feeling was unacceptable. I went back to my doctor who then gave me samples of another drug, which I cannot remember the name of. It was some kind of anti-psychotic that was a combination of prozac and something else (3mg). This medicine seemed to be alright, except that I was eating everything in sight and acting extremely compulsively. I called the doctor back and the next thing he prescribed me was cymbalta 60mg. The first couple of days were good, except that I felt like I was on clean speed and I was unable to sleep. The insomnia continued so I called the doctor and went yet for another visit. I was prescribed a short term insomnia drug called zaleplon. This did not help and as the insomnia became worse other side effects began to surface. I asked for the generic ambien, which I received. By now I was around 200.00 in between doctor visits and prescription co-pays and the side affects from the cymbalta were becoming so intense (missing a few days due to what I thought was flu-fever) I decided to take myself off. I have a follow up on dec 3 with my doctor, but I couldn't continue on this drug. I read extensively about cymbalta and that you're supposed to step down from it. For a few days, I poored half or more of the little balls out of the capsule. However, the more I read about cymbalta, the more frightened I became and decided to quit cold turkey. After all, I quit a near 10 year meth habit, cold turkey, almost 4 years ago. I had only been on cymbalta for a few weeks and figured that if I could quit meth cold turkey and survive the withdrawal symptoms, I could survive these. I am on day four without cymbalta. I have had the gnarliest, blinding headaches. I have had horrible nausea, chills, uncontrollable crying outbursts and my thoughts are starting to defeat me. I know that they are just thoughts, but in conjunction with the other symptoms, I'm starting to feel lost and frightened. This withdrawal is starting to feel like it's going to a worse place, rather than getting better. My work and school work are beginning to suffer. Although I know these withdrawal symptoms last for different periods for different people, can anyone give me an idea of what your experience was before you started to feel better? Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.
amanda
Amanda,
Your in withdarwls alright, and this compared to Meth is like night, and day.
They compare this to the same as getting off of heroin, but there are no detox
meds for us. The withdrals vary for people, but can last 6 mo. to 2 years, some
even longer.
The best way to get off is to do a very slow taper, get back on your 30 mg now!!!
Then slowly start you decrease by 10% every two weeks, and you should be ok. If
you still have too many withdrawls add a couple of beads.
Here's the bead count for 30 mg
30 mg = 270 beads minus 10 beads x's 2 weeks
20 mg = 180 beads same
10 mg = 90 beads same
5 mg = 45 beads same
1 mg = 9 beads same
Let me know how your doing, and what you decide. I am in the program, have been
for many years, never thought I would have to do anything like this ever again.
Debbie
#11
Posted 23 November 2009 - 01:30 PM
#12
Posted 23 November 2009 - 01:44 PM
So glad I was here this am, I live in Calif, so I am usually the first here.
Gee now I can even remember what you asked me, you will understand
this in time.
What causes all of this, well I just use English, and let someone else go
into the medical terms, not up to it.
This drug works on both chemicals in the brain number on, most anti
depressants just work on the seritonin. The brain becomes addicted
to this drug, when you take it away, just like you would take a drug
from a junkie you end up with withdrawls. Give the brain some of it's
drug, and it's fine.
Thanks the reason for the very slow wean,now did you only go down
1 mg? = 9 beads? Just let me know hoe many beads you did go down.
If you start to have bad withdrawls then you know it was to big of a
drop, and all you do is add some to it for the next dose. Thanks what
is so great about this method, you control it, it does not control you,
well for some, like me I just have had a very had time, and it's due to
being switched from one to another without any weaning in between.
I was stupid about these drugs!!!
Sooooo let me know how many you took out, ok?
Debbie
#13
Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:12 PM
#14
Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:00 PM
So did you take 200 beads out of a 60 mg cap? What I am trying to find out is the dose you are
now on.
Being that there are 540 beads in 60 mg, and you took out 200 beads, that's way tooooo big of a
decrease!!!!!!
Boy talk about necommers',lol
Here let me write out a little plan
60 mg = 540 beads, minus 10 beads (or you can do 20 beads on any of these steps)
Then wait 2 weeks, or until your not having any withdrawls, then go down another
10 beads for 2 weeks, wait until your not having any major withdrawls, or think you
ready, and go down another 10 beads.
Someone new came here, and did a every week 20 beads, so you can try
that, but again if you having major withdrawls, just add a few beads.
This is slowsoberiety! What did you to today for your recovery?
Me onething was get my crazy ass to a meeting, now waiting for
my sponsie to come over for her weekly, I am blessed in many ways!!
God Shows Up And Show's Up
Debbie
#15
Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:05 PM
#16
Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:09 PM
Did you see the post above the last one you wrote here?
I am just really concerned about the amount that you have
decreased so far!
If you were on 60 mg, and removed 200 beads, well that is is not anything
just way to ooo big of a drop. You said you already felt better
and that's because you gave the brain what it's caving to badly,
but withdrawls do not always start, all of them until about 6- 9
ddays.
I have been in program since 1988, also am a Chemical Dependency
Specialist, this drug has me baffeled. I even have been thinking of
the drugs that we do use for detox protocol, and just wonder if
they would also help the same with this, but the thing is these
withdrawls keep going on, and on.
When you talked about the mental stuff, boy do I ever know about
that crap, and th withdrawl symptoms site has that in detail what it
does to our thinking, minds while coming off this sh#t.
I have had to kick any drug you can think of, this, Xaxax, heroin
all are way up there, but I could do them anytime, as there is
an end in sight. With this it just keeps going on for so long.
Great to hear you story, we sure have done alot of the same with our lives.
Debbie
#17
Posted 24 November 2009 - 04:09 AM
#18
Posted 24 November 2009 - 05:58 AM
yes, up now/then..and usually a morning person. lol. Just got to work, feeling a little nauseous and head achy. I would like to hear what is acutually happening. Instead of you having to retype it, is there a link you can send me to? i think that today is starting off a little better, but the really intense symptoms seem to come in waves. I would be interested in knowing what happens, though, when you get some time.
Thank you, again, for your help, Junior.
amanda
Hi Amanda
Finally got some time (and the inclination :-p) to explain the mechanics of going on and getting off anti-depressants to you.
Firstly, as you are no doubt aware, there are SSRI's, SNRI's, then the so-called atypical anti-depressants such as Remeron. No need to talk about the old fashioned tricyclics as they are not relevant here.
SSRIs - alter the serotonin levels in your brain
SNRIs - alter both serotonin and norepinephrine.
Think neurons (brain cells) and chemical messengers that jump the gap (synapse) between neurons and are picked up by the receiving neuron. SSRI's work by down-regulating the serotonin receptors on the sending neuron, thereby leaving the serotonin the synapse longer. This gives the receiving neuron more time to process it. SNRIs are the same except that they down-regulate both the serotonin AND norepinephrine receptors on the sending neuron. Although the drugs are selective in their action, if you alter one/two chemical messengers, the brain needs to alter the levels of others in order to balance itself. This is what causes the side-effects when we first go onto anti-depressants - both the down regulation of receptors and the cascade of changes to other chemicals messengers in the brain. This is also why Drs say that it takes several weeks for SSRI's and SNRI's to reach their full effect.
When you come off a modern anti-depressant it takes time for the altered receptors to up-regulate. This is probably why many people feel that they are sliding back into depression (myself included). Also, when your remove a drug that your brain is used to having, it naturally craves it - even though the up-regulation is taking a while. In addition, all the brain chemicals that were altered along the way, need to find a new balance, and thus kind of scrabble around doing that.
As you can probably imagine, slow withdrawal of these drugs allows the brain to alter itself slowly as well, thus making the entire process easier to bear.
I hope all of that makes sense!
Cheers
Junior
#19
Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:54 PM
Hi Debbie..yes, I counted out 200 beads from a 60mg. I am getting ready to head to the gym. I read what you said about it being too big of a drop. I am going to just remove 40 beads so that there are 500, this morning. I still had a rough time yesterday, but not nearly as bad as without the cymbalta, all together. I had to come home and write a paper for class, last night, which proved to be a bit challenging as far as concentrating. I will step down more slowly...anything to make this transition/process less painful and mentally exhausting. Have a good morning. I will check in later today with a progress report.
Amanda,
Whew, so glad that we got that caught in time. I know you will
start to feel much bettter. I really was worried about that big drop!
Hope your having a good day, good luck with your school work!
Debbie
#22
Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:48 PM
Amanda
#23
Posted 10 December 2009 - 02:03 PM
I do wish you hope, but like we tell everyone who comes here, doc's do
not know how to take a patient off this drug.
You are going way to fast, and will end up with withdrawls doing it this
way. There is no fast way to get off this stuff, and I guess we all have
to learn that for ourselves.
I do know that to try to get off of 30 mg in 8 days, your brain will start
to let you know around the 6-7 days that it really has to have this drug.
I do like the idea of giving a pain med to help with the withdrawls, as this
is just what we do in the hospital to help detox people off of all kinds of
meds, legal or not.
This is the method we use here just in case you want it for later, and also
remember that the withdrawl symptoms can last 6 mo. to 2 years or longer,
Pain pills or not. So one has to be really careful with Vicodin as it's one
of the most popular adddictive drugs out there today.
30 mg = 270 beads
20 mg = 180 beads
10 mg = 90 beads
5 mg = 45 beads
1 mg = 9 beads
What we do is decrease by 1 mg - 5mg every 2 weeks, until done. If the 5 mg is
causing you too many withdrawls then just decrease by less, until the symptoms
are to where you can totally function. This is possible. Anxiety is also a big
part of the withdrawls so if you start to get this, it's normal.
Here is the site for the withdrawls http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm
You will really need this, and can also take it to you doc so he too can see
that this is real, and what we do go through. We are the one's who are teaching
the doc's all about this drug, and how to get off of it.
Keep us all posted please,
Debbie
#24
Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:56 PM
Amanda,
I do wish you hope, but like we tell everyone who comes here, doc's do
not know how to take a patient off this drug.
You are going way to fast, and will end up with withdrawls doing it this
way. There is no fast way to get off this stuff, and I guess we all have
to learn that for ourselves.
I do know that to try to get off of 30 mg in 8 days, your brain will start
to let you know around the 6-7 days that it really has to have this drug.
I do like the idea of giving a pain med to help with the withdrawls, as this
is just what we do in the hospital to help detox people off of all kinds of
meds, legal or not.
This is the method we use here just in case you want it for later, and also
remember that the withdrawl symptoms can last 6 mo. to 2 years or longer,
Pain pills or not. So one has to be really careful with Vicodin as it's one
of the most popular adddictive drugs out there today.
30 mg = 270 beads
20 mg = 180 beads
10 mg = 90 beads
5 mg = 45 beads
1 mg = 9 beads
What we do is decrease by 1 mg - 5mg every 2 weeks, until done. If the 5 mg is
causing you too many withdrawls then just decrease by less, until the symptoms
are to where you can totally function. This is possible. Anxiety is also a big
part of the withdrawls so if you start to get this, it's normal.
Here is the site for the withdrawls http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm
You will really need this, and can also take it to you doc so he too can see
that this is real, and what we do go through. We are the one's who are teaching
the doc's all about this drug, and how to get off of it.
Keep us all posted please,
Debbie
Thank you, Debbie. I will keep this information on my desktop incase I start having huge issue. Thank you for giving me the mgs in ball count. That will definitely help.
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