23 replies to this topic

[groovydoll51]

I from southern California. I moved to Indiana a couple years ago and found winters to be really tough with the constant flat gray, cold and bareness. This year, my aunt suggested I go see a doctor about getting medicine for seasonal depression. I am not depressed in general. The doctor really took time to listen to me and discuss my history. The first medicine he put me on was lexapro. This medicine made me feel like I was constantly rolling on ecstasy. I stopped using recreational drugs about four years ago, so this feeling was unacceptable. I went back to my doctor who then gave me samples of another drug, which I cannot remember the name of. It was some kind of anti-psychotic that was a combination of prozac and something else (3mg). This medicine seemed to be alright, except that I was eating everything in sight and acting extremely compulsively. I called the doctor back and the next thing he prescribed me was cymbalta 60mg. The first couple of days were good, except that I felt like I was on clean speed and I was unable to sleep. The insomnia continued so I called the doctor and went yet for another visit. I was prescribed a short term insomnia drug called zaleplon. This did not help and as the insomnia became worse other side effects began to surface. I asked for the generic ambien, which I received. By now I was around 200.00 in between doctor visits and prescription co-pays and the side affects from the cymbalta were becoming so intense (missing a few days due to what I thought was flu-fever) I decided to take myself off. I have a follow up on dec 3 with my doctor, but I couldn't continue on this drug. I read extensively about cymbalta and that you're supposed to step down from it. For a few days, I poored half or more of the little balls out of the capsule. However, the more I read about cymbalta, the more frightened I became and decided to quit cold turkey. After all, I quit a near 10 year meth habit, cold turkey, almost 4 years ago. I had only been on cymbalta for a few weeks and figured that if I could quit meth cold turkey and survive the withdrawal symptoms, I could survive these. I am on day four without cymbalta. I have had the gnarliest, blinding headaches. I have had horrible nausea, chills, uncontrollable crying outbursts and my thoughts are starting to defeat me. I know that they are just thoughts, but in conjunction with the other symptoms, I'm starting to feel lost and frightened. This withdrawal is starting to feel like it's going to a worse place, rather than getting better. My work and school work are beginning to suffer. Although I know these withdrawal symptoms last for different periods for different people, can anyone give me an idea of what your experience was before you started to feel better? Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.
amanda

[groovydoll51]

Would it help to start taking a small amount, again, to help control the withdrawal symptoms?? ..or am I far enough along that these symptoms should start getting better in the next couple of days, without starting this drug again?

[debsterace]

I weaned two weeks etc, then been cold turkey for 8 days I think it is now, I must admit the headaches, crying spurts and dizziness have stopped. The vomiting is subsiding as of today and the diarrhea seems to be improving. Everyone is saying slow down go back on it a little bit or whatever, at this point I don't feel I can I think I would feel defeated. I will keep you posted on my progress and please keep posting on yours I do believe that like everything that goes in must come out. I started taking culturelle which is an over the counter probiotic, I am thinking I just need to help my stomache bind again. When this is all over I am determined to join a counselling session to avoid resorting back to sugar coating my problems. I don't know if that is any help to you but you are not alone and it does get better.

[groovydoll51]

Gosh, thank you. your words give me some hope. I will keep you posted as well. I appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with me.

[groovydoll51]

Also, I share that same feeling of defeat if i were to try to accommodate some of these withdrawals by trying to go back on small doses. Just seems like it would repeat this awful experience and prolong feeling better. Then again, I question will this gets worse, if I don't try to wean off more slowly. I think I will just try to push through as you are doing. Again, thank you for sharing with me.

[Junior]

Hi Groovydoll

Welcome to the forum.

The symptoms you describe are, unfortunately, characteristic of Cymbalta withdrawal. For me the worst hit at Day 4 (severe upper abdo pain, GI distress, unable to eat anything 'heavy', etc) and the pain was strong enough to send me to the Drs. I did say it might be withdrawal but he decided to investigate anyway. Two weeks later my test results had come back normal and all the symptoms had disappeared. By then I had more knowledge about C withdrawal. I had cold turkeyed from 60mg, thinking it was a starting dose and had only been on it for 19 days. If i'd known then what I know now, I would definitely weaned rather than going C/t.

Having said that, you've also been on a bit of journey in recent months, trying different medications. Unfortunately, because they all work differently, switching can throw the brain chemicals completely out of balance. I switched from Paxil for over 10 years (it was becoming ineffective), to Lexapro (4 months), then Cymbalta - all in the space of just 6 months. When the Cymbalta withdrawal subsided I found myself suffering hypomania followed by severe insomnia. I went back onto the Paxil in a desperate attempt to regain my ability to sleep as sleeping tabs weren't doing anything. I probably upped the dose too early (20mg to 40mg- the dose I'd been on earlier this year) and suffered severe 'jittery' anxiety and I thought I was sliding into depression. All of this was chemically induced. Thanks to the help of my wonderful naturopath (and a few hundred dollars) I am now back on an even keel. It has taken 2 months to get me here and it is a journey I would not recommend to anyone.

I hope I'm wrong and that your symptoms are 'simply' C withdrawal. If that is the case it should settle within a couple of weeks. Let me know how you go.

Kind regards
Junior

[groovydoll51]

Junior, thank you so very much for sharing your experience with me. I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that, but your sharing this with me takes some of the fear out of this and lets me know that there is an end to these symptoms. I just really had no idea that chemical changes could be this drastic. I thought I had pretty much seen it all, but I had not. My day is starting off a little better. I did hit snooze 4 times so it's after 5 am, but I am actually feeling good enough, this morning, to hit the gym. I usually go each day, but Sat and Sunday I felt so debilitated. My neck, head and back are a little sore right now, but i think it must be from being so tense all day yesterday. I am trying desperately to keep my routine, as I am learning that these symptoms are not permanent. Again, Junior, thank you and I look forward to hearing more about your experience as you move further away from the cymbalta.

[Junior]

You are up at 5am? Ok now you really ARE crazy!! Only joking! I am so NOT a morning person.

Glad I could help. I've heard several people ask if they are now brain damaged (and not just from Cymbalta). The answer is NO. It's just that it can take weeks / months / in some cases even a couple of years, for the brain to heal properly. I've described what happens elsewhere but if you want me to repeat it I will. I just can't be bothered right now :-p

Cheers
Junior

[groovydoll51]

yes, up now/then..and usually a morning person. lol. Just got to work, feeling a little nauseous and head achy. I would like to hear what is acutually happening. Instead of you having to retype it, is there a link you can send me to? i think that today is starting off a little better, but the really intense symptoms seem to come in waves. I would be interested in knowing what happens, though, when you get some time.
Thank you, again, for your help, Junior.
amanda

[nursedeborah]

I from southern California. I moved to Indiana a couple years ago and found winters to be really tough with the constant flat gray, cold and bareness. This year, my aunt suggested I go see a doctor about getting medicine for seasonal depression. I am not depressed in general. The doctor really took time to listen to me and discuss my history. The first medicine he put me on was lexapro. This medicine made me feel like I was constantly rolling on ecstasy. I stopped using recreational drugs about four years ago, so this feeling was unacceptable. I went back to my doctor who then gave me samples of another drug, which I cannot remember the name of. It was some kind of anti-psychotic that was a combination of prozac and something else (3mg). This medicine seemed to be alright, except that I was eating everything in sight and acting extremely compulsively. I called the doctor back and the next thing he prescribed me was cymbalta 60mg. The first couple of days were good, except that I felt like I was on clean speed and I was unable to sleep. The insomnia continued so I called the doctor and went yet for another visit. I was prescribed a short term insomnia drug called zaleplon. This did not help and as the insomnia became worse other side effects began to surface. I asked for the generic ambien, which I received. By now I was around 200.00 in between doctor visits and prescription co-pays and the side affects from the cymbalta were becoming so intense (missing a few days due to what I thought was flu-fever) I decided to take myself off. I have a follow up on dec 3 with my doctor, but I couldn't continue on this drug. I read extensively about cymbalta and that you're supposed to step down from it. For a few days, I poored half or more of the little balls out of the capsule. However, the more I read about cymbalta, the more frightened I became and decided to quit cold turkey. After all, I quit a near 10 year meth habit, cold turkey, almost 4 years ago. I had only been on cymbalta for a few weeks and figured that if I could quit meth cold turkey and survive the withdrawal symptoms, I could survive these. I am on day four without cymbalta. I have had the gnarliest, blinding headaches. I have had horrible nausea, chills, uncontrollable crying outbursts and my thoughts are starting to defeat me. I know that they are just thoughts, but in conjunction with the other symptoms, I'm starting to feel lost and frightened. This withdrawal is starting to feel like it's going to a worse place, rather than getting better. My work and school work are beginning to suffer. Although I know these withdrawal symptoms last for different periods for different people, can anyone give me an idea of what your experience was before you started to feel better? Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated.
amanda

Amanda,
Your in withdarwls alright, and this compared to Meth is like night, and day.
They compare this to the same as getting off of heroin, but there are no detox
meds for us. The withdrals vary for people, but can last 6 mo. to 2 years, some
even longer.

The best way to get off is to do a very slow taper, get back on your 30 mg now!!!
Then slowly start you decrease by 10% every two weeks, and you should be ok. If
you still have too many withdrawls add a couple of beads.

Here's the bead count for 30 mg

30 mg = 270 beads minus 10 beads x's 2 weeks
20 mg = 180 beads same
10 mg = 90 beads same
5 mg = 45 beads same
1 mg = 9 beads same

Let me know how your doing, and what you decide. I am in the program, have been
for many years, never thought I would have to do anything like this ever again.

Debbie

[groovydoll51]

wow! thank you, Debbie. I am counting beads now. I just had no idea what I was getting into and trying to get out of. I will definitely do this. I actually gave in this morning and poored some balls out and ate a capsule. Now that I have the bead count, I will be able to be more accurate. Thank you, so very much, for this information. What causes this? What causes such tremendous withdrawals after such a short period of time?

[nursedeborah]

Hey,
So glad I was here this am, I live in Calif, so I am usually the first here.
Gee now I can even remember what you asked me, you will understand
this in time.

What causes all of this, well I just use English, and let someone else go
into the medical terms, not up to it.

This drug works on both chemicals in the brain number on, most anti
depressants just work on the seritonin. The brain becomes addicted
to this drug, when you take it away, just like you would take a drug
from a junkie you end up with withdrawls. Give the brain some of it's
drug, and it's fine.

Thanks the reason for the very slow wean,now did you only go down
1 mg? = 9 beads? Just let me know hoe many beads you did go down.
If you start to have bad withdrawls then you know it was to big of a
drop, and all you do is add some to it for the next dose. Thanks what
is so great about this method, you control it, it does not control you,
well for some, like me I just have had a very had time, and it's due to
being switched from one to another without any weaning in between.

I was stupid about these drugs!!!

Sooooo let me know how many you took out, ok?

Debbie

[groovydoll51]

I counted out 200. it was crazy...about three minutes after taking the capsule, the burning in my back and neck muscles almost dissappeared. Literally, that fast. The burning is still there but not at the intensity that it was. The waves of nausea are still prevelant, as I am sure they will be for sometime. I just had no idea that this was what I was to encounter with this and getting off. I was a little apprehensive when I started the med because it felt like the cleanest speed I had ever had and with that have been an issue for me in the past, I was concerned that there was a bad potential there. However, after the second day, it mellowed out so much that I was like, "okay, this mellowed and I don't feel speedy." But, I noticed after the first week that I started getting the tense muslces and the gnarly zaps, the insomnia was way too much. I eat clean and work out every day, now, so I thought that maybe my body was just too clean and the chemicals in the drug were taking me back to an old chemical feeling state...that is when I decided I wanted to stop..and then I did cold turkey... Thank you so very much for telling me about how to step down. I really wish that I would have believed what I was initially reading about not quitting suddenly, etc. I just thought that as much as I had put in my body in the past and was able to push by it eventually, that this should be fairly easy (mostly mental) ... but it simply is not only mental.. I have a new respect for addiction after this... I am absolutley shocked that the brain could become addicted so unbelieveably fast....freaking warp speed and I didn't even have a chance to know that I was doing something so badly for me until it was too late. Debbie, I know I am carrying on, but I just want to thank you for taking the time to listen and discuss this with me. I don't feel so alone, although I would much rather no one have to go through any of this.

[nursedeborah]

Hey,
So did you take 200 beads out of a 60 mg cap? What I am trying to find out is the dose you are
now on.

Being that there are 540 beads in 60 mg, and you took out 200 beads, that's way tooooo big of a
decrease!!!!!!
Boy talk about necommers',lol
Here let me write out a little plan

60 mg = 540 beads, minus 10 beads (or you can do 20 beads on any of these steps)
Then wait 2 weeks, or until your not having any withdrawls, then go down another
10 beads for 2 weeks, wait until your not having any major withdrawls, or think you
ready, and go down another 10 beads.

Someone new came here, and did a every week 20 beads, so you can try
that, but again if you having major withdrawls, just add a few beads.

This is slowsoberiety! What did you to today for your recovery?
Me onething was get my crazy ass to a meeting, now waiting for
my sponsie to come over for her weekly, I am blessed in many ways!!

God Shows Up And Show's Up

Debbie

[groovydoll51]

For my recovery, I moved out of the state to Nevada, where I didn't know anyone. A lot of things happened all at once. I lost my mom to breast cancer, left a toxic relationship and moved. So in the midst of all of that, and although many times I wanted the "escape", I managed to keep out until the fog started to lift. I already knew I wanted to change my life and lifestyle. I was just in the midst and surrounded by users. Much of my 20's, I was deep into the rave, club and electronic music scene therefore leaving little room for sobriety. I just came to a point that I was hitting 31 and there was nothing but darkness. I lost my dad at 23, so I did a lot of escaping. Once I started realizing all of the things and life I had deprived myself of by not dealing with the loss, I started changing my mind and approach. It was not easy. I went through many gnarly withdrawals and tough situations trying to finally face the reality of adulthood. There were many growing pains of retraining my mind, but it has been well worth it. I wouldn't change where I have been, but perhaps some of the choices I made while I was there. I still fight the tendency to be an "escape artist", as I feel that is what I was doing when i started this journey of anti depressants two months ago. I don't know that I really needed anything, but I wanted to escape from the cold gray starkness of the midwest winter. I wasn't really dealing with any major depressive issues, like I had in the past. I was on lexapro and depakote when after a year of sobriety (which I am sure you understand that process)..but I stopped those drugs after a year of feeling and doing better. I wasn't on any anit-depressants for two years after. My first attempt to reconcile the seasonal anxiety/depression was with the lexapro, as I had previously been on it before, without issue. However, this time it was too intense (as I think my body chemistry had changed over time). So, here I am again, in another process to overcome the withdrawal of cymbalta. I am so glad that there are forums to discuss this in. My best friend, who stepped down off cymbalta a few years ago, keeps reminding me that this is a process and half is mental. This forum is helping me to not feel so alone when the symptoms peak. I do appreciate everyone's knowledge and experience with this, as it's helping me to understand the process better.

[nursedeborah]

groovydoll,
Did you see the post above the last one you wrote here?
I am just really concerned about the amount that you have
decreased so far!

If you were on 60 mg, and removed 200 beads, well that is is not anything
just way to ooo big of a drop. You said you already felt better
and that's because you gave the brain what it's caving to badly,
but withdrawls do not always start, all of them until about 6- 9
ddays.

I have been in program since 1988, also am a Chemical Dependency
Specialist, this drug has me baffeled. I even have been thinking of
the drugs that we do use for detox protocol, and just wonder if
they would also help the same with this, but the thing is these
withdrawls keep going on, and on.

When you talked about the mental stuff, boy do I ever know about
that crap, and th withdrawl symptoms site has that in detail what it
does to our thinking, minds while coming off this sh#t.

I have had to kick any drug you can think of, this, Xaxax, heroin
all are way up there, but I could do them anytime, as there is
an end in sight. With this it just keeps going on for so long.

Great to hear you story, we sure have done alot of the same with our lives.

Debbie

[groovydoll51]

Hi Debbie..yes, I counted out 200 beads from a 60mg. I am getting ready to head to the gym. I read what you said about it being too big of a drop. I am going to just remove 40 beads so that there are 500, this morning. I still had a rough time yesterday, but not nearly as bad as without the cymbalta, all together. I had to come home and write a paper for class, last night, which proved to be a bit challenging as far as concentrating. I will step down more slowly...anything to make this transition/process less painful and mentally exhausting. Have a good morning. I will check in later today with a progress report.

[Junior]

yes, up now/then..and usually a morning person. lol. Just got to work, feeling a little nauseous and head achy. I would like to hear what is acutually happening. Instead of you having to retype it, is there a link you can send me to? i think that today is starting off a little better, but the really intense symptoms seem to come in waves. I would be interested in knowing what happens, though, when you get some time.
Thank you, again, for your help, Junior.
amanda

Hi Amanda

Finally got some time (and the inclination :-p) to explain the mechanics of going on and getting off anti-depressants to you.
Firstly, as you are no doubt aware, there are SSRI's, SNRI's, then the so-called atypical anti-depressants such as Remeron. No need to talk about the old fashioned tricyclics as they are not relevant here.

SSRIs - alter the serotonin levels in your brain
SNRIs - alter both serotonin and norepinephrine.

Think neurons (brain cells) and chemical messengers that jump the gap (synapse) between neurons and are picked up by the receiving neuron. SSRI's work by down-regulating the serotonin receptors on the sending neuron, thereby leaving the serotonin the synapse longer. This gives the receiving neuron more time to process it. SNRIs are the same except that they down-regulate both the serotonin AND norepinephrine receptors on the sending neuron. Although the drugs are selective in their action, if you alter one/two chemical messengers, the brain needs to alter the levels of others in order to balance itself. This is what causes the side-effects when we first go onto anti-depressants - both the down regulation of receptors and the cascade of changes to other chemicals messengers in the brain. This is also why Drs say that it takes several weeks for SSRI's and SNRI's to reach their full effect.

When you come off a modern anti-depressant it takes time for the altered receptors to up-regulate. This is probably why many people feel that they are sliding back into depression (myself included). Also, when your remove a drug that your brain is used to having, it naturally craves it - even though the up-regulation is taking a while. In addition, all the brain chemicals that were altered along the way, need to find a new balance, and thus kind of scrabble around doing that.

As you can probably imagine, slow withdrawal of these drugs allows the brain to alter itself slowly as well, thus making the entire process easier to bear.

I hope all of that makes sense!
Cheers
Junior

[nursedeborah]

Hi Debbie..yes, I counted out 200 beads from a 60mg. I am getting ready to head to the gym. I read what you said about it being too big of a drop. I am going to just remove 40 beads so that there are 500, this morning. I still had a rough time yesterday, but not nearly as bad as without the cymbalta, all together. I had to come home and write a paper for class, last night, which proved to be a bit challenging as far as concentrating. I will step down more slowly...anything to make this transition/process less painful and mentally exhausting. Have a good morning. I will check in later today with a progress report.

Amanda,
Whew, so glad that we got that caught in time. I know you will
start to feel much bettter. I really was worried about that big drop!

Hope your having a good day, good luck with your school work!

Debbie

[groovydoll51]

Thank you, for taking the time to explain this to me, Junior. That makes complete sense to me. Brain chemistry is extremely interesting. I just can't believe how fast it changes and the adjustment it requires.

[groovydoll51]

Thank you, Debbie.

[groovydoll51]

I just wanted to check in with everyone. I finally went to see my doctor and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I told him all the horrendous experiences, side effects and withdrawal symptoms that I was having. I told him that I had started pouring out the little balls in effort to step down on my own. To my surprise, he was quite compassionate and really listened to me. We devised a plan to step down and be done with the drug in 8 days. First, he gave me 30mgs. After telling him about the horrible headaches, body pains and aches, he gave me two weeks of hydrocodone 7.5mg, which are helping tremendously to dull the pain. He also gave me zolpidem (generic ambien) so I can fianlly get some sleep. I am on day 3 (and I even poured out more balls from the 30mg, and will continue to do so, moving forward. Most of the vomiting has subsided. I still become nauseous, daily, but it is less intense. I have enough hydrocodone to take 4 a day for the next two weeks, but a quarter of a pill every four hours seems to do the trick. It doesn't completely kill the pain, but I am able to focus on my school work and my regular job again. I am also trying to reserve the hydrocodone for the week after I am completely off cymbalta because the four days that I was cold turkey was when I experienced some of the most intense pain I can recall. I am sleeping better, although still not all the way through the night. The doctor did tell me that I would probably have a few rough days ahead, but I do feel that things are getting better and that I am going to make it through this experience. I wanted to thank all of you for your kindness, information and words of encouragement. As you know, I was terrified and so very sick from cymbalta. I do see a light at the end of the tunnel now..so thank you so much.
Amanda

[nursedeborah]

Amanda,
I do wish you hope, but like we tell everyone who comes here, doc's do
not know how to take a patient off this drug.

You are going way to fast, and will end up with withdrawls doing it this
way. There is no fast way to get off this stuff, and I guess we all have
to learn that for ourselves.

I do know that to try to get off of 30 mg in 8 days, your brain will start
to let you know around the 6-7 days that it really has to have this drug.

I do like the idea of giving a pain med to help with the withdrawls, as this
is just what we do in the hospital to help detox people off of all kinds of
meds, legal or not.

This is the method we use here just in case you want it for later, and also
remember that the withdrawl symptoms can last 6 mo. to 2 years or longer,
Pain pills or not. So one has to be really careful with Vicodin as it's one
of the most popular adddictive drugs out there today.

30 mg = 270 beads
20 mg = 180 beads
10 mg = 90 beads
5 mg = 45 beads
1 mg = 9 beads

What we do is decrease by 1 mg - 5mg every 2 weeks, until done. If the 5 mg is
causing you too many withdrawls then just decrease by less, until the symptoms
are to where you can totally function. This is possible. Anxiety is also a big
part of the withdrawls so if you start to get this, it's normal.

Here is the site for the withdrawls http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm
You will really need this, and can also take it to you doc so he too can see
that this is real, and what we do go through. We are the one's who are teaching
the doc's all about this drug, and how to get off of it.

Keep us all posted please,
Debbie

[groovydoll51]

Amanda,
I do wish you hope, but like we tell everyone who comes here, doc's do
not know how to take a patient off this drug.

You are going way to fast, and will end up with withdrawls doing it this
way. There is no fast way to get off this stuff, and I guess we all have
to learn that for ourselves.

I do know that to try to get off of 30 mg in 8 days, your brain will start
to let you know around the 6-7 days that it really has to have this drug.

I do like the idea of giving a pain med to help with the withdrawls, as this
is just what we do in the hospital to help detox people off of all kinds of
meds, legal or not.

This is the method we use here just in case you want it for later, and also
remember that the withdrawl symptoms can last 6 mo. to 2 years or longer,
Pain pills or not. So one has to be really careful with Vicodin as it's one
of the most popular adddictive drugs out there today.

30 mg = 270 beads
20 mg = 180 beads
10 mg = 90 beads
5 mg = 45 beads
1 mg = 9 beads

What we do is decrease by 1 mg - 5mg every 2 weeks, until done. If the 5 mg is
causing you too many withdrawls then just decrease by less, until the symptoms
are to where you can totally function. This is possible. Anxiety is also a big
part of the withdrawls so if you start to get this, it's normal.

Here is the site for the withdrawls http://prozactruth.com/cymbalta.htm
You will really need this, and can also take it to you doc so he too can see
that this is real, and what we do go through. We are the one's who are teaching
the doc's all about this drug, and how to get off of it.

Keep us all posted please,
Debbie

Thank you, Debbie. I will keep this information on my desktop incase I start having huge issue. Thank you for giving me the mgs in ball count. That will definitely help.