2 replies to this topic

[KK*]

I have spent quite some time reading through the many sad and disturbing posts on this website. It would seem as though there is no hope in sight for gaining an acceptable release from this drug. (You can skip over my personal story directly to the end for the suggestion I am going to try, I won't be offended.)

I am a 35 year old healthy woman, wife of a disabled Army Veteran, mother to 4. This is my contribution to the panel, my mini-story along with a possible solution.

I started taking Cymbalta in September 2010, so 5 full months now, for non-diabetic neuropathatic foot pain, anxiety, and mild depression. My doctor told me to try it, and if I didn't like it after giving it a couple weeks, then I could just stop. She also said that she had never had any patients report adverse effects of quitting cold turkey. So I did some initial homework and decided to give it a try. (Please note: other than allergy and heartburn meds, I have never been on anything substantial before.)

The first week at 30mg was HELL, but interesting. Nausea was my biggest complaint. I could actually feel my brain rewiring itself, so I knew it wasn't a stomach issue, but rather a BRAIN issue. Eating or exercise actually made the nausea lesson, but finding the motivation to do one of those two things was difficult. HOWEVER, the nerve pain in my feet... GONE THE NEXT DAY! That is what kept me plowing on through the first week. Once I upped to 60mg, the only side effects I had was a persistant yawn and a couple hot flashes each day. I actually would wake up in the middle of the night with an overwhelming feeling of euphoria, peaceful, like all was right in the world. Wow. That felt G-O-O-D! I actually remember thinking to myself, 'this must be what addicts feel like'. I KNEW then... this drug was meant to be addictive. I'll explain further on why this moment of realization is SO VERY significant.

For the next several weeks, my attitude brightened dramatically. My kids noticed a big change in the level of my irritability and patience. My husband actually said I was rather pleasant to be around and most of the day I did feel like I was walking around in a cloud of bliss. I remember early on asking my husband if everything was going well, that I didn't want to fall into a false sense of happiness and ignore any issues that might be going on while living in my little bubble. I found myself craving my next dose...

One day, my husband and I had an arguement that left me feeling very low. My next thought was, it stopped working. I was crushed... BUT WAIT! After about 15 minutes, the feeling went away! What in the past would have made me miserable for the next couple days, passed quickly. Another interesting development. I no longer seemed to have the ability to sulk, or stay mad for very long at all. And let me tell you, that's something considering my geneology and family history of hot-heads! Other than that, my side effects continued to be yawning, hot flashes, and I did notice an increase in irritability with PMS.

So, everything is going GREAT until about mid-January. I get up with my youngest of 10 to get her ready and drive her to school. I woke up feeling a bit under the weather... a bit achy and not really dizzy... but like I was standing on the deck of a small sea vessel... wobbly?? I went back to bed after I got home, thought maybe I had could a bug or something. Later that day, the 'wobbly' feeling intensified along with a mild headache. Around midnight, I had this OVERWHELMING sense of sadness for no apparent reason. Like I had just lost my whole family in a car wreck - kinda shocking sadness that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Weird. By 3am, the headache is so bad I can't bare it any longer. Excederin Migraine, Aspirin, ice-packs, heating pad, massage, NOTHING lessened the pain. I was starting to fear a stroke was coming on so I asked my husband in a panic to drive me to the ER. We live way out in the country, so that is quite a drive for us. They take all kinds of tests and do a complete workup. I told them I was on Cymbalta and that there were several drug interactions indicated, so please check before administiring any mediation. They can't find anything wrong. He tries to convince me that I am just having a migraine. No, I said, I've had those before, this is definitely different. He gives me a shot to 'lessen' the head pain, along with some benadryl and an anti-nausea something or other. He said it would take about half and hour to take effect and left the room. Within 2 minutes, I start to feel REALLY weird and go into an all out panic. My headache was gone, but for the next 2 hours I have amazingly horrible muscle spasms to the point of seizure. It's obvious I am having a reaction and it is conflicting with the Cymbalta. He said there was nothing they could do, I just had to ride it out. I eventually fell asleep when we got home and slept for 2 days straight. My husband had to wake me to drink and potty.

Since then, I have noticed that, although I still feel fairly mentally good, there are some new developments. The 'wobbly' feeling is increasing in frequency. My neck is stiff and sore, my foot pain is returning - mildly at present. About 3-4 hours after my dose I get a strange pain on my left side face, neck, and pain down my left arm. I can only sleep sporatically. I get restless and 'jangly' at night like my muscles are fatigued and jittery. My eyes will dialate very tiny, making everything appear dim and foggy at times, my tinnitus is worse than ever, I have to have some kind of constant noise to cover the ringing and whooshing sounds. I have gained a total of 20 pounds since September, although I accredit some of that to being cooped up with the cold weather. I have been 'hungry' all the time. I never feel satisfied. I have lost all interest in sex. No urges whatsoever. (my poor husband) I am tired alot and will sleep the day away more often than not.

SO, I am now researching more information because I think it's time to get off the drug.

DIET CHANGES: When I initally started Cymbalta, with the research I had already done, I knew that I would crave and need to add foods high in potassium to my diet, so I added Bananas and Potatoes as well as Real Salt to deal with the thirst and low sodium levels that could develop. This is also significant due to their role in releasing dopamine... Which is the real reason I keep craving them and why I STRONGLY feel that WE ALL KEEP CRAVING CYMBALTA.

I am finding some very interesting information. Unlike regular Antidepressants or SSRIs, Cymbalta is an SNRI, which works with dopamine in the brain, not just seretonin. Although they state on the Cymbalta website that it is unclear WHY it works... it's seems like a no brainer to me - because of the norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and the mass release of dopamine experienced every few hours when one of those little balls burst open and are absorbed!

*****In favor of everyone doing their own homework in order to draw their own conclusions...

Google 'What does dopamine do'.

NOW FOR THE SCARY PART - Google 'What does Meth do to your brain'

Here is an example site: http://www.kci.org/m...nes_and_You.htm

((Haha, Eli Lilly, jokes on me - you got me hooked!) I imagine them smiling all the way to the bank whilst we squirm for a way out of this rat mess.))

I am in favor of trying to find some kind of homeopathic alternative to release myself from this HIGHLY ADDICTIVE DRUG.

In my brief research on withdrawal, it seems that I need to find a natural way to increase my level of dopamine while coming off of the synthetic drug releasing it. This can apparently be accomplished by increasing the foods that raise dopamine levels, such as almonds, avocados, bananas, dairy products, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, and sesame seeds, and removing those things from my diet that cause dopamine levels to drop... such as alcohol, caffine, sugar, saturated fats, and refined foods.

The key component is to regulate the amino acids responsible for communicating and activating the norepinephrine hormone in the brain.

SO, this is my plan... I am going to try the taper everyone talks of. I am on 60mg, I am going to start this VERY SLOWLY. Removing approx. 2% or 10 beads every few days and see how that feels. Then I need to balance the release of dopamine and seratonin I was experiencing from the synthetic drug with the real deal. I found a product at the health food store that looks promising called NEURVANA MoodBrightener .

* Again, please read read read, be informed before trying.

Here is one of many sample websites: http://www.integrati...brightener.html

I hope this helps give a glimmer of hope to those that have been searching for a long time.

I will keep you posted of my progress.

Feel free to contact me if the need arises. My email is: Justthemail@msn.com

Until then...
Kim K*

[chrism23]

Hi Kim,

I have another thread running here on cymbalata withdrawal but just wanted to let you know I read your story and wish you well in getting off the drug. Its interesting that you make the distinction between SSRI's and SNRI's and focus on dopamine. When dopamine surges naturally it is wondrous feeling. I used to be a runner before the wheel's feel off, people talk of runner's high, its so true, after about 5 miles I experienced dopamine storms, pure bliss, heaven. Unfortunately the only thing I could compare it too was taking opiates, not meth interestingly enough, but both substances all too easy to become addicted to, such is the seduction of dopamine.

The rub here though, one point I want to make, is the positive role of vigorous exercise in increasing dopamine levels, and I think accordingly, in lessening the severity of the symptoms of cymbalata withdrawal. I am off the gym after I post this, even though I am cramping, sick to my stomach, and all the other fun things I am going through.

The other issue of note in your post which I haven't mentioned is the relation of weight gain and loss of sex drive to various AD's.

I was part of the first wave of people to receive Prozac after ADA approval. There was absolutely no mention of loss of libido. This was before the Web, almost before the internet. The net existed in really primitive format, mostly in a place called Usenet. There was a group on Usenet I helped establish, alt.support.depression (not recommended now usenet is dying). Anyhow, it became flooded with posts from people who were experiencing loss of sex drive. From this there was a ground swell which eventually led to research and the acknowledgement of the now fact. The point is that side effects do become documented, given credence, and then studied by grass roots groups such as this.

Weight gain is experiencing the same type of scrutiny and revelation. I recently read a newspaper article, citing a medical journal study, saying that SSRI's caused weight gain of up to 20% of body weight in 40% of those sampled. I wish I kept the citation, but it was something I already new all too well. One of the reasons I have quit cymbalta is I was getting more depressed by getting fat that I was by being depressed.

Anyhow, good luck. You can read my thread to see how going semi-cold turkey is going versus a long taper.

[KK*]

Hi Kim,

I have another thread running here on cymbalata withdrawal but just wanted to let you know I read your story and wish you well in getting off the drug. Its interesting that you make the distinction between SSRI's and SNRI's and focus on dopamine. When dopamine surges naturally it is wondrous feeling. I used to be a runner before the wheel's feel off, people talk of runner's high, its so true, after about 5 miles I experienced dopamine storms, pure bliss, heaven. Unfortunately the only thing I could compare it too was taking opiates, not meth interestingly enough, but both substances all too easy to become addicted to, such is the seduction of dopamine.

The rub here though, one point I want to make, is the positive role of vigorous exercise in increasing dopamine levels, and I think accordingly, in lessening the severity of the symptoms of cymbalata withdrawal. I am off the gym after I post this, even though I am cramping, sick to my stomach, and all the other fun things I am going through.

Hi Chris,
Thank you for your reply and I wish you a quick recovery time! I think you are on the right track by exercising to increase your natural dopamine levels... hopefully along with some dietary changes like adding lots of bananas and almonds to give you a quick boost in levels when you can't make it to the gym.

The main reason I am focusing on the interesting distinction between SSRIs or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, which only effect serotonin levels
VS. SNRI or Serotonin Norepinephrine reuptake inhibiters, which increase serotonin, adrenaline, AND dopamine, is the potential addiction quality.

Opiates become addictive over time, as in someone who may be taking them for long-term pain relief. Mixing it with other serotonin acting drugs or mediations can result in Serotonin Syndrome. Also, there is a mild dopamine effect that some patience find appealing, "blissful", but it doesn't seem to be enough to get anyone hooked right off the bat.

The reason I referred to Methamphetamine in comparison is simply that it is a chemical that has been around for a very long time, used in history for many different treatments and is well known in current society as the main stream drug to avoid because of the underground manufacturing methods, the instant addiction quality, the irreversible physical and mental damage, and the horrible withdrawal symptoms that carry on for several weeks, forcing those in rehab to finally seek out relief at state run Methadone clinics around the country.

The surge of energy, the blissful dopamine dump the user experiences, and finally the withdrawal and desperate need to seek relief with another dose... instant addiction. ((Ironically, the surge of energy and happiness is why suburban housewives are the top offenders.))

""Methamphetamine is highly addictive and users become physically dependent upon the drug quickly. Meth, like amphetamine, produces a rapid pleasurable feeling, which is followed by feelings of depression and irritability when the drug wears off. Users will seek and use more methamphetamine in order to get back to that state of pleasure, or to just feel "normal" again, which results in a physical dependence on the drug. It is a never-ending cycle.
People who stop using methamphetamine experience a wide variety of symptoms, including: •Irritability. •Depression. •Fearfulness. •Loss of energy. •Extreme craving for the drug. Meth withdrawal also results in actual physical symptoms: •Shaking or tremors. •Nausea. •Palpitations. •Sweating. •Hyperventilation. •Increased appetite.
People withdrawing from methamphetamine can alternate from wanting to sleep all the time, to not being able to sleep. Withdrawal symptoms can last for several weeks.""Source: National Institute on Drug Abuse, A.D.A.M. Illustrated Health Encyclopedia

This sounds to me ALOT like what the persons trying to free themselves from Cymbalta are experiencing. I think the drug companies have tapped into something a little darker than they realize, or are willing to admit to.

Doctors and scientist admit repeatedly that they are unsure how SSRIs and SNRIs really work. They further admit that they are not clear as to whether or not the dip in serotonin causes depression, or if depression causes serotonin levels to drop. Or how much each individual needs to maintain a sense of 'normal' health. They are not even sure that low serotonin levels detected in the body have anything to do with depression or mental health at all because as of yet, there is no way to measure actual levels in the brain itself. This may explain why it fails to work for any length of time. The initial boost may very well be brought on by the patients initial belief that it is supposed to make them feel better, so they instictively, or subconsciously release the stressors and worries in their lives that prompted them to seek treatment to begin with, but soon find that the feelings return and feel let down by the drug. Hence the purpose of talk therapy in conjuction with SSRIs, again, getting to the root of the issue for people who are merely experiencing depression as a result of life circumstances, not a chemical imbalance. These people tend to get better over time, and studies would then reflect a high percentage of success - without any substantial proof that it had anything to do with the medication.
The other group, the 'fail' group, are considered resistant and must be moved on to the game of hit and miss, trying med after med after med, hoping someday, something will balance them out and life can become stable for them.

Now, the new wave of SNRI drugs are fascinating in comparison. First of all, the main difference is the addition of the norepinephrine reuptake inhibiter. Most people have no idea what that is or what it does. First off, it is both a neurotransmitter and a hormone. Secondly, it runs along the SAME neuro pathway that dopamine does in the brain. You may better know it as noradrenaline, the chemical released from the adrenal glands, the stress hormone, the FIGHT OR FLIGHT instinct. This would account for the hot flashes, increased heartrate, side effect warning of high blood pressure, hypertension, etc. If someone has a chemical inbalance causing mood or mental health issues, (too low) balancing out the adrenal hormone may actually assist in relieving depression, kind of like giving you a shot of mania, a rush of adrenal to help perk you up.
***Moderate daily exercise may help alleviate some of the excess adrenal, thereby lessoning the side effects.

Consequently, because dopamine, the 'reward and pleasure' chemical runs along this same neuropath, you are also getting a rush of blissfulness as well. Like a kid getting off a scary rollercoaster and then running up to mom and yelling, 'Let's do it again!' That is kinda how I feel every night at 8pm, when my next dose is due.

Now, in all fairness, I am no scientist. I have, however, been in the mental health field for many years and I do alot of regular research. I am concerned for myself and others what the potential long term health effects may be, and am perplexed as to why there is so little to no information on cessation of this drug. What of the study participants? Did they neglect to report the adverse effects of discontinuing? Have these records been classified? I will continue to do some research and see what I can find.

Until then, I started my gradual taper tonight. Like I said in my previous post, I have had some strange sensations as of the last 3-4 weeks, but all in all, I still feel pretty good. We'll see how it goes from here.

Thank you for your time!
Kim
justthemail@msn.com