I was misdiagnosed as Bipolar in 2004. In 2010 I read Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic" and was so outraged with what I read that I decided to get off all my meds. I approached my shrink and he agreed to supervise my tapering off Risperdal, Lamictal, Neurontin and Cymbalta, as he had had many patients who were able to quit taking psych meds and so thought it worth a try. Under his supervision, I first got of Risperdal...no problem, then Neurontin...no problem, and then Lamictal...no problem. I also got off Cymbalta but depression came back and I chickened out and went back on it for about 9 mos.
Now I'm ready to try again. I want off all psych meds. I read some of the posts here and liked the one about the person who was counting the beads in the capsules of Cymbalta to get off. Having been through going off Cymbalta last year a bit more quickly and getting nasty side effects, I decided to give his "bead counting" method a try. I counted the number of beads in a 30 mg capsule of Cymbalta. It was about 300. His counting had come up with 200, so it pays to count your own capsules as they may be different. Since 30 mg was 300 beads, I decided to deduct 10 beads each day, which would be 1 mg less each day. My initial dosage was 90mg. I am now on Day 11, having deducted 110 beads out of the 30 mg capsule this morning. This will take me 90 days. I figure that's slow enough without being too interminable. I did pretty good until day 9. Symptoms I have had since day 9 is tiredness, fog-brain, itching, some nausea. These symptoms aren't too bad except that it's hard to work when you're tired and fog-brained. I decided to try to get more sleep as I have only had 7 hrs/night.
Right now it is the weekend, and I hope to rest up quite a bit. If I'm still feeling tired and fog-brained next week, I will take a week to pause at -130 beads to allow my body to catch up.
This may take me more than 90 days. I'm determined to try it, though. I don't know if I can live off anti-depressants, but I'm going to try.
Does anyone know what is going on in the brain when you taper Cymbalta? I'm thinking that I have less reuptake receptors because my brain tissue was bathed in Cymbalta, so that my body must evaluate the situation and create more reuptake receptors when there is less Cymbalta around? I'm no scientist....it's something like that. I would like to help my body by visualizing brain healing. I guess I don't really have to understand the exact mechanics of it. I will just visualize healing and leave the mechanics up to my body.
I have found that a positive attitude and visualization get me through any pain/healing situation. I don't like to dwell on people's horror stories of tapering. Visualization and a positive attitude make it all work out better, I have found.
My Story
Started by Imdone, Jul 23 2011 05:32 PM
13 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 24 July 2011 - 04:27 PM
Dear Imdone:
Talking about misdiagnosis. My psychiatrist gave me a diagnosis 6 years ago, he said I suffered from Depression. After 5 years of taking cymbalta I began to taper slowly and started getting severe mood swings among other withdrawal symptoms. Now my doctor tells me I am bipolar, which I was never prior to the medication. One has to be careful with diagnosis, and differentiate, what is the original illness, and what are side or withdrawal effects. However I hope these mood swings are temporary, and they will go away.
Why do you say you were misdiagnosed as Bipolar???? What is your new diagnosis??? Why were you prescribe 4 medications at the same time? The maximum number of medications I´ve been on have been 2. I am not a doctor but from what I´ve read, Risperdal and Lamictal are prescribed for bipolar. Please check this site www.drugs.com to see if there are interactions between these medications.
Again, I am not a doctor. But I feel the fact that it was so easy for you to quit risperdal, neurontin, lamictal, shows 1. That you didn´t need them or 2. That one of the medicines you were taking was already making the task of the other ones. Or it could also be, that some of the withdrawal symptoms, you attribute to cymbalta are caused by the lack of the combination of the rest of the medications.
I don´t know what exactly goes on in the brain when you quit cymbalta. I think nobody really knows. You say you brain is creating more reuptake receptors. Is there such thing???? As the body creating more receptors???? I ask you this, because I see similarities with diabetes 2. When people produce too much insulin, and the body insulin receptors close down, or become desinsetized to insulin. Is there a way to create new insulin receptors?????
I think it is GREAT, that you want to help your body to visualizing brain healing. The body, doensn´t know to differentiate what is reality and what is imagination. So if you imagine your brain healthy it will believe it and heal. I should learn more of that too. I don´t think it really matters if you know the exact mechanisms of the brain or not. If you imagine your brain healthy it will be a lot of help.
Keep up the good attitute
Cookie<br style="mso-special-character:line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
Talking about misdiagnosis. My psychiatrist gave me a diagnosis 6 years ago, he said I suffered from Depression. After 5 years of taking cymbalta I began to taper slowly and started getting severe mood swings among other withdrawal symptoms. Now my doctor tells me I am bipolar, which I was never prior to the medication. One has to be careful with diagnosis, and differentiate, what is the original illness, and what are side or withdrawal effects. However I hope these mood swings are temporary, and they will go away.
Why do you say you were misdiagnosed as Bipolar???? What is your new diagnosis??? Why were you prescribe 4 medications at the same time? The maximum number of medications I´ve been on have been 2. I am not a doctor but from what I´ve read, Risperdal and Lamictal are prescribed for bipolar. Please check this site www.drugs.com to see if there are interactions between these medications.
Again, I am not a doctor. But I feel the fact that it was so easy for you to quit risperdal, neurontin, lamictal, shows 1. That you didn´t need them or 2. That one of the medicines you were taking was already making the task of the other ones. Or it could also be, that some of the withdrawal symptoms, you attribute to cymbalta are caused by the lack of the combination of the rest of the medications.
I don´t know what exactly goes on in the brain when you quit cymbalta. I think nobody really knows. You say you brain is creating more reuptake receptors. Is there such thing???? As the body creating more receptors???? I ask you this, because I see similarities with diabetes 2. When people produce too much insulin, and the body insulin receptors close down, or become desinsetized to insulin. Is there a way to create new insulin receptors?????
I think it is GREAT, that you want to help your body to visualizing brain healing. The body, doensn´t know to differentiate what is reality and what is imagination. So if you imagine your brain healthy it will believe it and heal. I should learn more of that too. I don´t think it really matters if you know the exact mechanisms of the brain or not. If you imagine your brain healthy it will be a lot of help.
Keep up the good attitute
Cookie<br style="mso-special-character:line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
#3
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:25 PM
Yes Cookie, I most of my life considered myself a unipolar biological depressive. Then I took the high dose of Zoloft and according to my shrink got pushed over into bipolar II, which is soft bipolar, or bipolar with moderate upswings (Bipolar I is bipolar with manic upswings). I thought I was bipolar until I read Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic," which is a wonderful book about the overdiagnosing of America and the over medication of America and the unfortunate result of affecting people's lives until they find themselves unable to work and on disability and with chronically deteriorating lives. Once I read his book I saw the truth in the matter and wanted off the meds. My shrink was willing to give it a try for me to go off the meds since by then I was "stable," and also he told me many of his patients had gotten off meds. Under his supervision, I went off the meds and found that I felt better and had more even moods OFF the meds. I cannot tell you what this means about me. I don't really understand it. All I know is I have been off Risperdal (an antipsychotic!), neurontin (for mood stability) and Lamictal (for mood stability) for a year and have zero moodswing, zero depression, zero mania, and zero hypomania. I feel totally well. And very happy and productive. I would just leave it at that and stay on the 90 mg of Cymbalta since I have fought depression since 1980, but after reading Whitaker's book I'm convinced that depression will resolve on it's own (actually already had). I no longer believe in "biological" depression. Read Whitaker...he explains that there is zero proof of biological basis of bipolar or depression. Also, I feel so great down deep in my heart that I believe I can finally get off the Cymbalta, but I know I have to take it slow as depression returned the last time I went off it (a yr ago). I am CONVINCED that this time I will make it to being med-free.
Since 2004 I found a lot of support at moodgarden.org, which is a support site for depression and bipolar and I recommend you all visit. My name is Spirit_kitty over there. Most of the people over there are bipolar but some depressives also hang around.
I say I was misdiagnosed as bipolar because I am neither depressed, manic, nor hypomanic, nor moodswinging. All those meds did was F me up. It was the MEDS that caused the moodswing! Antidepressants are known to push people over into the bipolar realm. Then the shrink throws a plethora of meds at them (most bp's take 3-4 meds). My new diagnosis is "normal" "recovered."!
It is difficult to differentiate between what is a "withdrawal symptom" and what is a "side effect" of the med, or the original illness. I think each person has to decide this for him/herself and take copious notes of med changes, side effects, etc.
I'm not going to get into the thing about receptors being created or destroyed by the brain because I'm not up on the science of that. I just know that the human body is an amazing thing. I am 62 years old and the older I get the more amazed I am at the ability of the body and the mind to heal each other. I am utterly convinced that the mind can cure itself. Meditation and visualization are powerful tools. I would recommend that everyone here practice visualization daily. I usually do this while drifting off to sleep each night. I visualize a sun-like ball of light coming out of my chest. This ball is bright and powerful as the sun. I can direct it to go wherever I need healing. For instance, in the case of Cymbalta withdrawal, I would visualize the ball going to my brain and shining brightly in the gray matter. As it does this I tell myself it is healing my brain circuits and blowing out any depression or negativity. In doing this I believe I am helping my body heal. There have been many stories of cancer patients using such techniques to cure cancer. See Love, Medicine and Miracles by Bernie Siegel or Creative Visualization by S. Gawain.
Since 2004 I found a lot of support at moodgarden.org, which is a support site for depression and bipolar and I recommend you all visit. My name is Spirit_kitty over there. Most of the people over there are bipolar but some depressives also hang around.
I say I was misdiagnosed as bipolar because I am neither depressed, manic, nor hypomanic, nor moodswinging. All those meds did was F me up. It was the MEDS that caused the moodswing! Antidepressants are known to push people over into the bipolar realm. Then the shrink throws a plethora of meds at them (most bp's take 3-4 meds). My new diagnosis is "normal" "recovered."!
It is difficult to differentiate between what is a "withdrawal symptom" and what is a "side effect" of the med, or the original illness. I think each person has to decide this for him/herself and take copious notes of med changes, side effects, etc.
I'm not going to get into the thing about receptors being created or destroyed by the brain because I'm not up on the science of that. I just know that the human body is an amazing thing. I am 62 years old and the older I get the more amazed I am at the ability of the body and the mind to heal each other. I am utterly convinced that the mind can cure itself. Meditation and visualization are powerful tools. I would recommend that everyone here practice visualization daily. I usually do this while drifting off to sleep each night. I visualize a sun-like ball of light coming out of my chest. This ball is bright and powerful as the sun. I can direct it to go wherever I need healing. For instance, in the case of Cymbalta withdrawal, I would visualize the ball going to my brain and shining brightly in the gray matter. As it does this I tell myself it is healing my brain circuits and blowing out any depression or negativity. In doing this I believe I am helping my body heal. There have been many stories of cancer patients using such techniques to cure cancer. See Love, Medicine and Miracles by Bernie Siegel or Creative Visualization by S. Gawain.
#4
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Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:25 PM
Dear Imdone:
I have also been unipolar depressive all my life.
When you say that zoloft pushed you to bipolar II, or soft bipolar. Which were your moderate upswings????
I checked the book you mentioned on the net. Very interesting information. I found this interesting link. http://robertwhitake...20Epidemic.html
It says even in people who suffer schizophrenia, in the long term, they are better without medications. That people who take medications tend to relapse more. After 6 years of being medicated I felt 10 times worse than the original illness/symptoms. It mentions this quote “Because the drugs dampen dopamine activity, the brain tries to compensate by becoming “supersensitive” to dopamine. In particular, the drugs trigger an increase in the density of dopamine receptors. This perturbation in dopamine function, over the long term, makes the patients more biologically prone to psychosis and to worse relapses upon drug withdrawal”
What happens is that when people starts reducing the dose, or quitting, she/he starts feeling withdrawal symptoms (feeling bad), and doctors tells us, they are caused by initiall illness, convincing us that we do need the medication for life, and that the symptoms we are feeling are caused by the lack of the medication that we need, so they increase the medication, again. So you find yourself in a vicious cycle.
However I learned to differentiate the initiall symptoms from withdrawals. I took the medication for severe depression. When I reduced dose I started experiencing asthma, itching, joint pain, problems finding words to talk and comprehending language, dizziness, vomiting, seizures, facial tics, sensitivity to noises and light, tremors, allergies, sore throat, etc which I definitely didn´t have when my depression appeared 6 years ago.
I have also been unipolar depressive all my life.
When you say that zoloft pushed you to bipolar II, or soft bipolar. Which were your moderate upswings????
I checked the book you mentioned on the net. Very interesting information. I found this interesting link. http://robertwhitake...20Epidemic.html
It says even in people who suffer schizophrenia, in the long term, they are better without medications. That people who take medications tend to relapse more. After 6 years of being medicated I felt 10 times worse than the original illness/symptoms. It mentions this quote “Because the drugs dampen dopamine activity, the brain tries to compensate by becoming “supersensitive” to dopamine. In particular, the drugs trigger an increase in the density of dopamine receptors. This perturbation in dopamine function, over the long term, makes the patients more biologically prone to psychosis and to worse relapses upon drug withdrawal”
What happens is that when people starts reducing the dose, or quitting, she/he starts feeling withdrawal symptoms (feeling bad), and doctors tells us, they are caused by initiall illness, convincing us that we do need the medication for life, and that the symptoms we are feeling are caused by the lack of the medication that we need, so they increase the medication, again. So you find yourself in a vicious cycle.
However I learned to differentiate the initiall symptoms from withdrawals. I took the medication for severe depression. When I reduced dose I started experiencing asthma, itching, joint pain, problems finding words to talk and comprehending language, dizziness, vomiting, seizures, facial tics, sensitivity to noises and light, tremors, allergies, sore throat, etc which I definitely didn´t have when my depression appeared 6 years ago.
#5
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:53 AM
Hi Cookie,
I'm glad you looked at Whitaker. I'd say he saved me life. I was stoned out on 4 psych meds when I read his book and I saw the truth in what he is saying. I am so glad now that I am off all those meds. Only Cymbalta is left. My withdrawal from Cymbalta is going very well. By reducing 1 mg per day I am hardly having any symptoms.
Tonight I am actually euphoric. Maybe its because I have so many dopamine receptors, I don't know! I'm just so glad to be getting off meds. I feel more real every day. I noticed that stiffness is leaving my body that I formerly had. And I am needing less sleep and just coming alive. Read the book, Cookie; it will give you motivation to get totally off.
You have really been through the mill with all these symptoms. I agree....I feel better off the meds than on, and I too have learned to differentiate between what is real depression and what are withdrawal symptoms. I think you need to take daily notes, so you can see what is going on. I keep a daily journal and also blog about my withdrawal at the other site.
I'm not sure I understand this sentence: "When you say that zoloft pushed you to bipolar II, or soft bipolar. Which were your moderate upswings???? " Are you asking me what my moderate upswings were like? Hell, I think they were just normal creativity. A friend recommended to me a book called "The Hyppomanic Edge" -- I think it's about the normal creativity and "hypomania" that some people have. It is not sickness; it is the artistic, creative personality.
However, there is another kind of hypomania. It's called "irritable hypomania." I had that. On the meds my moods became erratic and irritable. I think that is how I got the diagnosis. I am probably what would be called mild hypomania right now, but I really don't believe that my moods are anything but the normal variances of a creative, sensitive person.
I'm glad you looked at Whitaker. I'd say he saved me life. I was stoned out on 4 psych meds when I read his book and I saw the truth in what he is saying. I am so glad now that I am off all those meds. Only Cymbalta is left. My withdrawal from Cymbalta is going very well. By reducing 1 mg per day I am hardly having any symptoms.
Tonight I am actually euphoric. Maybe its because I have so many dopamine receptors, I don't know! I'm just so glad to be getting off meds. I feel more real every day. I noticed that stiffness is leaving my body that I formerly had. And I am needing less sleep and just coming alive. Read the book, Cookie; it will give you motivation to get totally off.
You have really been through the mill with all these symptoms. I agree....I feel better off the meds than on, and I too have learned to differentiate between what is real depression and what are withdrawal symptoms. I think you need to take daily notes, so you can see what is going on. I keep a daily journal and also blog about my withdrawal at the other site.
I'm not sure I understand this sentence: "When you say that zoloft pushed you to bipolar II, or soft bipolar. Which were your moderate upswings???? " Are you asking me what my moderate upswings were like? Hell, I think they were just normal creativity. A friend recommended to me a book called "The Hyppomanic Edge" -- I think it's about the normal creativity and "hypomania" that some people have. It is not sickness; it is the artistic, creative personality.
However, there is another kind of hypomania. It's called "irritable hypomania." I had that. On the meds my moods became erratic and irritable. I think that is how I got the diagnosis. I am probably what would be called mild hypomania right now, but I really don't believe that my moods are anything but the normal variances of a creative, sensitive person.
#6
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:59 PM
Dear Imdone:
I wished I had read it 6 years ago. I feel that I am alreadyinside the psychotropic medication trapp. I am already one of the people, as itmentioned in the book, who has had relapsed because of the damage done afteryears of taking medicines. (One of the things I read was that the people who donot take medication have better future than the ones who take meds).
When I tried to quit the medication I found I was 10 timesworse than when my severe depression hit. Like my brain is not doing it´s workanymore, because it was used to medicines doing the work.
I am so glad you are feeling better every day.
Well, I think normal creativity are not upswings (as inbipolar). Creativity is part of thehuman being. There is nothing wrong with it. I had the irritability when Istarted tapering from cymbalta.
It is unbelievable how doctors tend to prescribe more meds when they hear withdrawal symptoms. My doctor wants me to take a 3rdmedication.
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
I wished I had read it 6 years ago. I feel that I am alreadyinside the psychotropic medication trapp. I am already one of the people, as itmentioned in the book, who has had relapsed because of the damage done afteryears of taking medicines. (One of the things I read was that the people who donot take medication have better future than the ones who take meds).
When I tried to quit the medication I found I was 10 timesworse than when my severe depression hit. Like my brain is not doing it´s workanymore, because it was used to medicines doing the work.
I am so glad you are feeling better every day.
Well, I think normal creativity are not upswings (as inbipolar). Creativity is part of thehuman being. There is nothing wrong with it. I had the irritability when Istarted tapering from cymbalta.
It is unbelievable how doctors tend to prescribe more meds when they hear withdrawal symptoms. My doctor wants me to take a 3rdmedication.
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
#7
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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:05 AM
Cookie, I don't think shrinks or drs get it at all. They are hung up on the medical model. Keep at it, Cookie! We can do this! We will get off! Never forget that the body has a TREMENDOUS ability to heal. Above all, think positive and don't dwell on the negative. I am feeling better every day with no withdrawal symptoms this time!
#12
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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:35 PM
Thanks for the warning. If I get symptoms, I will slow down.
How long have you had symptoms? Eventually they will go away?
I experienced withdrawal symptoms since the first day I started to taper slowly. They got worse once I reached lower dosages.
I don´t know if they go away, because I haven´t quit completely. But from what I´ve read on this site, they eventually will go away
#13
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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:21 PM
I had some tiredness today, but it went away. I so far have only had tiredness on day 9 and day 18. I react to that by going to bed early and getting extra sleep.
I also will have to get used to life without antidepressants. Yesterday I snapped at someone because they hurt my feelings a tiny bit. I took that as something to look at. Something that didn't happen on full dose of Cymbalta, which made me pretty impermeable to feelings. So I resolved to stop a minute before reacting to being hurt in the future. That's my new life...without meds I will have to manage my emotions by myself. I'm looking forward to having real feelings again, instead of muted ones.
I also will have to get used to life without antidepressants. Yesterday I snapped at someone because they hurt my feelings a tiny bit. I took that as something to look at. Something that didn't happen on full dose of Cymbalta, which made me pretty impermeable to feelings. So I resolved to stop a minute before reacting to being hurt in the future. That's my new life...without meds I will have to manage my emotions by myself. I'm looking forward to having real feelings again, instead of muted ones.
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 11:51 PM
Damn....week-end was pretty much shot by big time fatigue and lethargy. Saturday I was so lethargic I just stayed in bed and even watching a movie seemed an effort. I got kind of depressed. Sunday started out ok....my attitude was that Today I would be Fine, but after a couple of hrs the lethargy came back and I haven't been good for much. Everything seems boring too except posting here at this site. Guess that's why I've been posting so much this week-end. The only thing that interests me when I'm physically lethargic. Hope I'm better tomorrow! Off to bed at 10pm! (early for me) to see if I can get some restorative sleep. Usually the fatigue passes.
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