56 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

I just thought I would give everyone a taste of what happens after things start turning around. I am on day 21 and the waves of emotions continue but they aren't as strong. I would say about 1/3rd the day I feel pretty good. During those times I try and just relax and enjoy myself. I try to stretch them out as much as possible. lol The nights are still worse than the days but am able to get around 6 hours sleep a night (with the help of an OTC sleep aide). The nightmares are gone but the vivid active dreams are still going hard and heavy. The nausea and diarrhea are only occuring breifly, usually in the morning. Hang in there everyone.

[lady2882Nancy]

That is me this morning - headache is back and a bit of nausea. Definitely have diarrhea - not sure if I should start bead counting tomorrow or not. Thought everything was good yesterday, felt pretty good.

[fishinghat]

That good feeling will return, just be patient. You don't have to make a decision on when to start the bead counting yet.

[lady2882Nancy]

Depressed today as it is a beautiful sunny day out and the stupid headache is so bad I can't even look out outside never mind go out for a walk. Oh well I can go downstairs and walk on the treadmill and laugh at the dogs as they always act goofy when I'm walking. Its like they are tryng to figure out what I am doing lol.

[fishinghat]

Well I need to vent a little frustration. The days are certainly better. Can't saw I really feel good just don't feel bad. I can function but don't really have a lot of motivation. The evenings and nights are the bad spots. Just waves of nervousness and restlessness followed by waves of fear. I take diphenhydramine around 9PM but it takes me until midnight to go to sleep. The fear and restlessness wake me up around 6 or 7 times a night. I am so nervous that i have to get up and walk then go back to bed when I relax a bit.I wind up sleeping around 5 hours a night. The next day is fairly good again. I thought once the days got better the rest would follow soon after. I guess more patience is required. This really gets old and grinds ona persons spirit BUT you guys already know that.

[GreenMachine]

I've been waking a few times throughout the night as well, usually just the last few hours of sleep though (starting at 2 or 3am)...for me, it feels like it's time to get up and I'm wide awake, but, I do eventually fall back asleep for another hour or so.  I've noticed my mood drops in the evenings as well, every half hour I'll feel sad for no reason, then okay, then dread and guilt, then fine again, etc, but all day long, I feel normal.  It's really weird...

[fishinghat]

Boy I can identify with that. That nighttime effect is due to years of cymbalta controling our seratonin (which is suppose to be converted at night to melatonin). Now that we are not on cymbalta our body has to learn all over about controling the seratonin. So you are right....That seratonin will just randomly kick in and wake you up. You feel like it is time to get up and get going. That really sucks. I am taking a lot (500 mg) of magnesium in the evening which helps with the pacing. What really gets to me is that dread and fear. I am sorry your have that as well but at least I know it is not just me. I don't get any feelings of guilt just fear and it is sure is a sickening feeling. And once again you are right 'It is really weird' . Right now it is around noon and things are ok, not good, but just ok. I guess we have to just hang in there. Keep up the fight.

[GreenMachine]

I've increased the magnesium dose a bit the past few days just to see what would happen, so I've been doing 200mg when I wake up and then 400mg around 3pm and another 400mg before bed...I have no scientific rationale for it, but I do wonder if its been giving me that little extra to where I really do feel *normal* and good right now.  But, again, I do believe the theanine all day long helps too.

 

Do you drink coffee?  I slowed down for the first couple weeks of WD, but now right back to what I normally drink, 3-4 cups/day.

 

Also, that fear you feel, it doesn't last long right? 10-15 minutes at a time?  I've been able to push right through it because for me I know it won't last and there's nothing actually I need to be in fear of...but, yes, it is a sickening feeling...blah.

[fishinghat]

GreenMachine - I have a MS in physiology. Research has shown that when people are exposed to stress one of the physiological responses is for the body to release more calcium and magnesium. Calcium and magnesium are used in muscle contractions. The lower levels of these two elements are what often causes restless leg syndrome, heart palpitations, PVCs (a form of irregular heart beat) and other heart irregularities (atrial tachycardia, fibrillation, etc). Much of these symptoms can be helped or even eliminated by adding addition calcium and magnesium to the diet. Unluckily it isn't just that simple. Calcium and magnesium is available in many forms (eg. calcium oxide, succinate, chelated, ...). Each is abosrbed at different rates and have different side effects.For example calcium oxide/magnesium oxide is the cheap version on the health food stores BUT they can really do a job on your stomach and intestines. Research has shown that the amino acid chelated calcium and magnesium are the easiest on the digestive tract and are easily absorbed. One then has to look at their diet and determine how much of these they are already getting and supplement accordingly. For most people an addition of 200 to 300 mg per day is enough to offset their normal stress loss. In my case for example I get enough in my antacids I take to supply all of the calcium I need and most of the magnesium I need. However now with this withdrawal I have kicked both up a little because I am sure my body can use the boost. Some reasearchers beleive (and others do not) that excess calcium and magnesium contribute to kidney stones so when things settle back down be sure and reduce your intake. Also a side note, if you look at the ingredients on most hard tablets you will see magnesium succinate or tartarate as an ingredient. this is used as a binder to make the tablets hard and stay sticked together BUt it is not readily dissolved and is not a good source for magnesium. Gee, I am a lon winded old geezer aren't I? Just thought you might be interested.

[fishinghat]

That last post was long enough!! lol I thought I wouild break it up. lol

No I don't drink coffee or each chocolate or anything else that has caffiene. I figure I have enough nervous issues without it. lol

 

The big problem for me is that the waves of fear usually last for 4 or 5 hours in the evening without a break except for periods of physical restlessness thrown in from time to time. I feel like a train is barreling dowm on me and is going to hit me any second. It is a sickening fear in the pit of my stomach. Really feels overwelming at the time. During the day i usally don't feel that way. But when the sun goes down.....

[GreenMachine]

lol You know you're stuff for sure...I have a BS in Exercise Science, so, you got me beat 

 

What you described sounds a little more intense than what I'm experiencing...sorry to hear that man. But just remember, it's not forever and we're almost there!

[fishinghat]

Well GreenMachine, it is nice to have all that education but the cymbalta isn't impressed.  That withdrawal just doesn't care!! lol  Now here I set at almost 3 pm and actually feel pretty good. 10 minutes later who knows!! Good luck GreenMachine! Hang in there.

[lady2882Nancy]

Well maybe I can help you two for a change. First no matter how much calcium you are taking (especially in the antacids) if you are not taking vitamin D in large enough doses then your body cannot make use of the calcium. You need 1000 ui of vitamin D3 for 500mg of calcium and that is all your body can handle for 8 to 12hours no matter what you are losing. I have osteopenia and have learned lots about calcium and vitamin D3.

 

For anxiety you should try some Holy Basil 500mg up to 2 times a day

For nervousness, try Passionflower 2ml up to 3 times a day.

Now for sleep, try some Lemon Balm 300-500mg up to 3 times a day improves mood but I limit it to the evening and use 60 drops in water or 1 - 2 tsp in a cup of hot water as a tea before bed. Lemon balm helps control anxiety and has a mild sedative effect.

 

I found a herbal tea that has lemon balm, nettle, elderflowers,and a few other herbs in it and it has helped with my insomnia so that I don't wake up as often.

All of these can usually be found in health food stores or places that have traditional healing remedies.

Hope that helps.

[fishinghat]

Thanks lady2882. You are right about the vit D3. My doctor put me on vit E to help my symptoms about a year ago and I had an allergic reaction that landed me in the hospital. She then put me on vit D3 and I immediately had frequent urination, incontanence(sp?) and panic attacks. She had me stop the D3 and it went away immediately. Of the 12 meds I have been on for my anxiety I have had side effects severe enough on 9 of them that I had to come off each. Talk about withdrawal experience. lol  I have become so paranoid lately about taking anything. I can't even handle omega 3 with out severe cramps and diarrhea. You are definitely correct about taking the D3 with the calcium but would caution about watching out for immediate changes in behavior, clarity of thought, (not that I am sure I could tell right now lol), constipation, nausea and vomiting as these are symptoms of an allergic reaction that require immediate medical attention. If taking vit d3 you should have your calcium and D3 levels checked each 6 months. Long term use can cause hypercalcemia (too high calcium levels).

 

Passion flower didn't do anything for me but I know some others it has helped. Definitely worth a try for most. Lemon balm is another good suggestion but it does contain a low concentration of beta-blockers. Beta blockers like atenolol are often used to help with anxiety and heart palpitations. One of their side effects is to lower blood pressure (this is part of their calming effect). The effect is so small that it isn't an issue for most unless they are already on BP medicine.

[fishinghat]

I am sorry lady2882 and GreenMachine. I don't mean to be negative. Your ideas are good ones and help most people but after going through all I have been through in the last 20 years of medicine and supplements I am a little paranoid. I sure hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings. That would be the last thing I would want to do. You guys have sure helped keep me glued together and I really appreciate both of you. Thanks 

[lady2882Nancy]

Not to worry fishinghat, I didn't take it personally. We each have had bad experiences with meds and supplements. What works for one can hurt another.

 

I am usually like you when it comes to rx drugs and have been kicking myself for not doing the research on this crap before I took it.

I too am very familiar with allergic reactions. I have so many allergies that I carry an epi pen at all times. The worst is if I get an infection. I feel like I am playing russian roulette then. I have one safe antibiotic at this point.

[GreenMachine]

Thanks for those recommendations Lady!

 

Fishinghat, no worries here...I think you may be looking into it too much...

[fishinghat]

Thanks,

Lady2882 - I can sure understand the comment on the russian roulette. lol

 

GreenMachine - Like I say, after a while you just get paranoid. Also spent to many years in my profession where I not only had to do my job but satisfy the darn company lawyers! Now THAT will make you crazy!! lol

[GreenMachine]

lol gotcha

[fishinghat]

Really suck day. Still that constant panic. When it gets real bad I feel like I am going to die . I hyperventilate, restless and my heart pounds and skips beats. This is about all the symptoms I have but it is enough. Like many of you I am especially restless at night. I get up and pace maybe 5 to 10 times before I am finally able to sleep. I sleep about 4 or 5 hours per night and the dreams are real vivid and full of fear.

 

I was thinking about trying some lemon balm to help out my sleep. What do you all think? Any suggestions on what type, how to use or warnings? Is it helping anyone?

[lady2882Nancy]

Sounds like the crapalta is ready to let you go quite yet fishinghat.

Lemon balm helps me alot. I get so restless in the evening that I would never get to sleep without it. I'm talking over 100 beads out now and take the crapalta in the morning and by evening I get real restless so I have a cup every evening now. One night I didn't have a cup and gave in at 1 am and had a cup then was able to go to sleep.

Lots of grocery stores have tea with lemon balm in it and it works almost as well as the lemon balm that you can get at health food stores, just make sure it is one of the first few ingredients.

GreenMachine had a chamomile tea with lemon balm that he tried one very restless night and it helped too.

I find that the lemon balm really calms the jittery feeling inside. It is caffeine free and safe to use. If you get lemon balm at a health food store you just make it like tea with 1 - 1 1/2 tsp per cup of boiling water. Sometimes they have the drops and there should be directions on the bottle.

Believe it or not basil helps calm as well. Not as good as lemon balm but it helps.

 

Sorry I didn't answer sooner but my email wasn't refreshing and not usually many around on the weekend.

[fishinghat]

I am having one of those days where it is good to "hear" a voice. I really appreciate the info on the lemon balm. I read some of the medical research on it and it was real interesting. It seems like they have isolated the active ingredient and have done some limited testing. Sounds promising. So far they report no major side effects. My wife is going to pick some up after church tomorrow so I will probably try it tomorrow night. Keep your fingers crossed for me this evening. lol

[lady2882Nancy]

I know what you mean fishinghat. You must have noticed that sometimes I leave a comment on everything that I can.

That's cause the jitters or depression are getting me and I am trying to keep myself occupied.

For me the depression is the worst as it scares me, but thank goodness it doesn't last for more than a few hours. I'm in it now but with new threads to express my opinions in and make suggestions that helps.

I hate this so much and the jitters are bad right now too and I only have 1 lemon balm tea bag left. Hubbie called from town and they don't have any left. I have to find another source until mine gets growing better.

ok so I am going to start rambling here too in a minute. Argh

Thank goodness there is light at the end of the tunnel. I can't see it yet but I know it is there.

[fishinghat]

Well, got a little bad news. My testosterone results came in today and they were basically unchanged even after nearly 5 weeks off the crapalta. So I guess it is time to start the old testosterone cream. The Dr. will retest in early May to see where I am at. If hte cymbalta has built up in my fat tissue then this result wouldn't be suprising. Maybe this will help me with my fear/panic I am having. My breast pain is some worse so I guess no choice. Should have got off this crap a long time ago.

[lady2882Nancy]

Sorry to hear that, kind of rough for you.

Remember, that hindsight is twenty-twenty fishinghat and don't beat yourself up over should have's.

[fishinghat]

Well I told my wife to pick up some lemon balm after church today. While she was gone this morning I finished my reading on lemon balm. One of the last things I found was an FDA warning that much of the product that comes out of Poland is contaminated with fungus which has caused many people to get sick recently. Well about that time she showed up with the product. You got it!! It said product of Poland!! She only bought a small amount for me to try so I guess tonight I will be a guinea pig.

[lady2882Nancy]

That really bites. I guess that is one benefit to being up here in the cold. I could stick it outside overnight and kill whatever fungus or mold was in it.

Well there's a thought - put it in your freezer for a few hours.

Being up here in Canada is part of the reason that it is so hard to get some of that kind of stuff. The testing and labelling standards are so strick for imports that unless it is a product of canada its hard to get.

[fishinghat]

I am not concerned lady2882Nancy. With as bad as the crapalta makes me feel I am not sure I would notice the difference from some bad lemon balm!!! lol

[fishinghat]

Good news all. The test results are back on the mole and it is benign.  Now all I have to do is worry about the crapalta.

[GreenMachine]

Right on man!