169 replies to this topic

[chimera]

Thanks Nancy, I will hang in there and time will tell.

 

Crapalta...The medicine that just keeps giving and giving!!!  May it rot in hell.

my god. what an awful experience for you. so glad you're ok

[fishinghat]

Thanks for the support chimera. I just found a research paper done on a couple other ssris. (I posted the info on Cymbalta in the News)

It stated that about 15% of the people who go through a ssri withdrawal will have withdrawal symptoms for up to one year. The symptoms mentioned in the article included crying, fear and agitation. The bad news is I may have to face crying and fear for another 9 months. The good news is it might come to an end then. Obviously I may lean on a med for the short term. I mean I wouldn't want to cry for the next 9 months! lol Unluckily this won't help my 'permanent' sexual problems. Obviously this story may carry on for a while.

[lady2882Nancy]

Yes Crapalta just doesn't let go.

 

Well I made it through my appt with doctor this time without being reducing to rocking and crying. I even made it all the way to the car before I broke down. Hubbie was rather pleased with me and said it went well.

 

But here's the deal - doctor wants me to try this other med (like I need more meds) and if I don't try Valproic Acid (Depakote, Depakene) then I'm pretty sure he is not going to give me any more of the Temazepam which helps me get some sleep.

 

I have to call the pharmacy in the morning before I try it as the first negative interaction it lists on the printout is a drug I am already on.

 

I hope I am not adding to my problems by trying this med and I really have no confidence in my doctor anymore.

[chimera]

Thanks for the support chimera. I just found a research paper done on a couple other ssris. (I posted the info on Cymbalta in the News)

It stated that about 15% of the people who go through a ssri withdrawal will have withdrawal symptoms for up to one year. The symptoms mentioned in the article included crying, fear and agitation. The bad news is I may have to face crying and fear for another 9 months. The good news is it might come to an end then. Obviously I may lean on a med for the short term. I mean I wouldn't want to cry for the next 9 months! lol Unluckily this won't help my 'permanent' sexual problems. Obviously this story may carry on for a while.

I saw the research paper you posted, and to be honest I wasn't overly surprised by the high percentage:( the brain and body is good at regenerating itself, but this stuff is pretty heavy duty in the way it impacts on so many systems in us. I'd definitely consider a med to help if this happened, being this way for 9 months or more would be intolerable without, and we need some quality of life while waiting it out. I am really hoping the sexual problems won't be permanent, but I will be following your story with interest.

[fishinghat]

Well just need to blow of some steam. My current psychiatrist reminds me of the perverbial granny. Just a sweet old lady. I can't say she impresses me with her medical knowledge but she is always willing to listen to my desires and work with me. She is my 4th psychiatrist that I have had over the last 12 years. Most of the rest were just plain horrible. Anyway, so here I go in today on a followup visit. I told her that I was hanging in there and my worse complaint was this remaining routine fear and crying, maybe 3 or 4 hours per day. She had a fit. She said you can't feel like that, that is terrible, I have to give you a prescription for that. WHY, Back in MArch I was 24/7 fear and crying and she wasn't even concerned about it!!  She spent a few minutes on the computer and came up with wellbutrin!!! AN SSRI!!! I said NO WAY!! She said it wouldn't be too bad because I would only be on it 6 months, the withdrawal wasn't too bad BUT it would not allow my breast pain to heal and would make any chance of my sexual function returning to be non-existing. I reitereated my HELL NO. She went back on the computer and finally said that she had a great idea...trazadone. Now trazadone isn't too bad a drug but I have been on it before and had a bad reaction to it. I reminded her of that and she said that maybe this time I wouldn't have the problem. MAYBE? Hello? I already have enough problems. The data sheet she gave me said not to take trazadone if you are on aspirin, clonidine, atenolol, buspar or have an irregular heart beat....ALL apply to me. I pointed this out to her and she said 'oh my, you can't take this drug.' NO CRAP YOU THINK!! She sent me away with instructions to buy some St. John's Wart and try it.

 

I think I am going to find a good vetenarian to go ese. lol

 

I hope tomorrow is a good day, not only for me but for all of you guys as well. Hang in there everyone.

[chimera]

Well just need to blow of some steam. My current psychiatrist reminds me of the perverbial granny. Just a sweet old lady. I can't say she impresses me with her medical knowledge but she is always willing to listen to my desires and work with me. She is my 4th psychiatrist that I have had over the last 12 years. Most of the rest were just plain horrible. Anyway, so here I go in today on a followup visit. I told her that I was hanging in there and my worse complaint was this remaining routine fear and crying, maybe 3 or 4 hours per day. She had a fit. She said you can't feel like that, that is terrible, I have to give you a prescription for that. WHY, Back in MArch I was 24/7 fear and crying and she wasn't even concerned about it!!  She spent a few minutes on the computer and came up with wellbutrin!!! AN SSRI!!! I said NO WAY!! She said it wouldn't be too bad because I would only be on it 6 months, the withdrawal wasn't too bad BUT it would not allow my breast pain to heal and would make any chance of my sexual function returning to be non-existing. I reitereated my HELL NO. She went back on the computer and finally said that she had a great idea...trazadone. Now trazadone isn't too bad a drug but I have been on it before and had a bad reaction to it. I reminded her of that and she said that maybe this time I wouldn't have the problem. MAYBE? Hello? I already have enough problems. The data sheet she gave me said not to take trazadone if you are on aspirin, clonidine, atenolol, buspar or have an irregular heart beat....ALL apply to me. I pointed this out to her and she said 'oh my, you can't take this drug.' NO CRAP YOU THINK!! She sent me away with instructions to buy some St. John's Wart and try it.

 

I think I am going to find a good vetenarian to go ese. lol

 

I hope tomorrow is a good day, not only for me but for all of you guys as well. Hang in there everyone.

my mouth is actually open reading this with amazement! why on earth is it always up to us, who are laypeople, to point out to the medical profession what medications are going to be a problem:/ I appreciate she wants to help you, but 'maybe you won't have a problem this time' just isn't good enough. you need an SSRI like a hole in the head right now lol. 

funny you should say that about the veterinarian. my mother at times out of desperation has asked the vet's opinion about my problems, during our cat's 6 monthly checkups. he speaks more sense (vet not cat) than any human doctor ever known, and is the sort that always reassuringly comes out with 'yes I knew someone who had that/was on that/experienced that'. amazing. we always send an Xmas card to him!

[fishinghat]

I have worked with, meet and visited more than a few idiot doctors over the years but I don't know, the dumb ones still suprise me. I keep going back to this lady for the simple reason I can tweek her into my way of thinking when all is said and done. Most of the other shrinks just "do it my way or else". I must say though we have some outstanding psychologists around here. If it wasn't for them my jungle rot of the brain would be a lot worse.

 

Chimera, I am really proud of you...not just hanging in there in your battle against crapalta but in the warm way you treaat everyone and build-up there spirits. You must be a special person and I am glad I have gotten to "to meet you". May God bless you in each and every way.

[lady2882Nancy]

fishinghat -

Blowing off steam is a good thing and your vent certainly gave me a laugh.

I am truly amazed that some of these doctors ever made it through medical school. Maybe they should be retested on their knowledge from time to time like paramedics and professional drivers are. I know in Canada vets are required to update in at least 3 areas of study each year in the form of lectures and PRN's have to take upgrade classes every few years so why not doctors.

 

chimera

fishinghat is right, you have a special way of giving support that is uplifting. I enjoy reading your posts so much.

 

 

You both are special people and it is an honour to know you both.

[Kittencat]

Has anybody tried a homeopathic doctor? Or cupping? Or acupuncture?

[chimera]

I have worked with, meet and visited more than a few idiot doctors over the years but I don't know, the dumb ones still suprise me. I keep going back to this lady for the simple reason I can tweek her into my way of thinking when all is said and done. Most of the other shrinks just "do it my way or else". I must say though we have some outstanding psychologists around here. If it wasn't for them my jungle rot of the brain would be a lot worse.

 

Chimera, I am really proud of you...not just hanging in there in your battle against crapalta but in the warm way you treaat everyone and build-up there spirits. You must be a special person and I am glad I have gotten to "to meet you". May God bless you in each and every way.

a more 'malleable' doctor or psychiatrist is definitely to the advantage here. it would be utterly disastrous for you to be forced into medications you really don't want/must not have, and I am glad you're in a strong enough state to make this clear. I worry about those who are in such a weakened and bad state, they would not have the energy to even protest:( 

Fishinghat, I cannot tell you how much reading that meant to me, and the way you and others are battling this is an inspiration and gives me strength. thank you so much.

[chimera]

fishinghat -

Blowing off steam is a good thing and your vent certainly gave me a laugh.

I am truly amazed that some of these doctors ever made it through medical school. Maybe they should be retested on their knowledge from time to time like paramedics and professional drivers are. I know in Canada vets are required to update in at least 3 areas of study each year in the form of lectures and PRN's have to take upgrade classes every few years so why not doctors.

 

chimera

fishinghat is right, you have a special way of giving support that is uplifting. I enjoy reading your posts so much.

 

 

You both are special people and it is an honour to know you both.

what I said to Fishinghat applies to you very much too Nancy, you have been a godsend to me and to all of us here, especially given the hell that you have been through/are going through. without the common sense and non judgemental support I have received from you and others, this process would've been intolerable. thank you also 

[fishinghat]

Boy life is just so much fun!! NOT   I had a recent physical about a week ago with no outstanding issues except high specific gravity on urinalysis and slightly high serum potassium. Neither real suprising to me or the doctor considering I had fasted for 12 hours before the test. But I was just setting here thinking about a urinalysis run on me during an ER visit with my cymbalta withdrawal in March. Our hospital here posts those results on a secure website so you can look at them anytime over the internet. I thought it would be interesting to see what results I got at that time. I was told all my results were normal. When I got on the site the UA results sure enough were normal BUT lo and behold there was a note on the bottom that said the patient may be suffering from severe hypothyroidism!!! NO KIDDING? No one said that to me!! The TSH test for thyroid function should run from .358 - 3.740 and my result was 11.2!!! WOW just a little bit high. Now to further complicate things I don't have any of the symptoms except for depression. I sent the results to my primary care doctor (who is an endocrinoligist. I am so glad I found those results, I was almost out of things to worry about!!  lol   Man, talk about depression...give me a break.

[fishinghat]

Guess what I found...

 

http://www.ehealthme.../hypothyroidism

 

This website says that 0.41% of those patients on cymbalta develope hypothyroidism.  The gift that just keeps on giving. Dare I repeat the rot in hell I stated on an earlier post?

[lady2882Nancy]

Hello fishinghat

Well that sounds about par for the course.

You are lucky that you can go and look at your results. I don't have that option and although they are in my chart the Moron (GP) will only tell me that my results are within the normal range. That really doesn't tell me much and if something is near the bottom end of the scale then it could be dipping below normal at times which would not be good.

Well now I have to go look at your second post here.

[lady2882Nancy]

Commonly reported side effects of Cymbalta include nausea, dizziness, fatigue, pain, stress and anxiety.
And the Moron still tells me that Crapalta could not have caused my anxiety.

 

Okay lets try this out:
I started feeling crappy within the first 4 weeks  15.62%
and I'm in the 50-59 age bracket 35.10%

 

Oh well I see the Moron next week again so I will ask to get blood work done again.

All this from one page

 

Oh the Moron would hate it if I did this -
How to use the study: print a copy of the study and bring it to your health teams to ensure drug risks and benefits are fully discussed and understood.

 

Well I didn't have any problems with thyroid before Crapalta and had the blood work done just before starting to take it so If I have problems now I will know what to blame.

 

 

[fishinghat]

Man, I feel your pain. It seems like you have to retrain your doctors all the time. Esp psychiatrists. EVRYTIME I get a test done I stop at the business office and ask for a copy to be sent to me. In addition we have the internet records, which are grteat!!!

 

Now unluckily I find it necessary to apologize to cymbalta. The website says that 0.41% of the people on cymbalta get hypothyroidism. Well I found out that 3% of men and 6% of women get hypothyroidism so the occurance in cymbalta users is well within the national average. BUT I am still $#@*&^ that I was not informed of these results by the ER doctor. I had sent a note to my PCP and he called me back and he is livid. They never even sent my pcp a copy of the results and they are in the same system and in the same buiding! IF, and I mean IF I have hypothyroidism then that would easily account for my depression and a simple blood test can confirm it and a week of treatment would resolve my depression. IF that is the case then that means I went through the last few weeks of hell depression for nothing. This could have been easily fixed much earlier. (How is that for ranting and raving?)

 

So right now my remaining depresion could be residual from the earlier depression, possibly hypothyroidism or even latent withdrawal from cymbalta. The saga goes on.

[lady2882Nancy]

The Moron has me on Valproic acid for the mood swings and he said it would help with the anxiety. Well you want to talk about mood swings now.

 

I take the dose at supper at 6pm per his orders. Within the hour I start to feel restless by 7:30 man I am moving. I cannot sit still I have to be doing something steady. Hubbie says it is hard to follow my conversations because I am talking fast and switching topics so fast that by the time he figures out what I am talking about I have changed topics again.

 

By 10pm I'm not so restless but very wide awake.

I take my temazepam at 10:30 and at midnight am still wide awake and wondering what I can do around the house that won't disturb hubbie's sleep. It's insane but no anxiety lol.

 

The worst part is the next day. I wake up with a headache and my eyes are very light sensitive again; feel like I should just sit down and cry but there are no tears; I am so irritable that even the cat purring pisses me off ; my stomach is sore and I'm nauseated; and to top it all off, I don't feel like I've hardly slept at all.

 

By noon I'm exhausted, depressed and the anxiety makes it feel like I can hardly breathe.

 

I hate doctors.

 

Only good news is that I know when my appt is with psychiatrist - June 25th

[fishinghat]

Valproic Acid? For real. Per the manufacturer's literature it carries a risk of sudden and complete shutdown of the liver and pancrase even with initoal usage. With all the anxiety meds out there why did he/she pick that one. I would say you need to look closely at the warnings on product Nancy. This can have some serious side effects.

 

I am so sorry you are having so many problems still but please hang in there girl. All of us here need you.

[lady2882Nancy]

Thanks fishinghat

 

The Moron insists that this is the first med to try and you cannot tell that man anything.

 

I cannot go to my appts with him without hubbie by my side because my anxiety levels when dealing with him go through the roof. Hubbie cannot lie to anyone that they don't catch on, although I would have no problems telling him that I tried it when I didn't lol.

 

I have read about the med and quite frankly I think this is insane but if I want to continue to get my sleep med I have to try it. Only taking 250mg once a day.  Get this though, I am already on amitriptyline, have been for years. That little interaction just adds to the game of russia roulette I feel like this idiot is playing with my health and life.

 

Now that I have that other appt, I am looking into a new GP.

[fishinghat]

Good idea Nancy. A new GP seem to be in order.

[chimera]

new GP needed definitely

[fishinghat]

Well my doctor pulled blood tests this AM and the results came in this afternoon. The hypothyroidism that they found in the ER....well it seems to have magically disappeared. (Highly unlikely). My doctor sent a bruising (and I mean real bruising) letter to the emergency room and asked for an investigation as to how a patient can go into the ER, have such results (hypothyroidism) and neither the patient or his doctor were notified. I had to sign a letter and asked for an investigaation as to why I wasn't notified. It may not do any good but it sure felt good.

 

Also good news, my prostate has returned to normal size and the PSA was good.

 

I think it is time to set aside some time to thank the good Lord. Maybe a better nights sleep is in order too.

 

Now if my fear and rying would go away I would be really happy.

 

Hang in there all my freinds, keep fighting the good fight.

[lady2882Nancy]

Wonderful news fishinghat

 

I go to the doctor's today and hopefully he will see that the VA is not for me.

 

I am totally exhausted this morning, only slept 5 hours and not looking forward to going into hyper drive after lunch.

 

Think positive thoughts and be well

 

Take care

[lady2882Nancy]

Well doctor took me off VA and was obvious he didn't know what to think. Said 3 times that he had never seen anyone react this way to it. I told him well I got depressed on antidepressants so why not hyper on VA.  LOL

 

Only problem is now he wants me to try Abilify. So far what I've read I don't know if I dare.

 

Anyway, hyperbunny me should be settling done in the next few days and maybe be able to get some sleep again.

 

Off to see specialist about wrist tomorrow and leaving at dawn.

 

Take care all

[fishinghat]

Glad to hear you are off the VA. I don't know much about abilify but I am sure you have done your reading on it.

 

Now that the hypothyroidism has been ruled out (which can cause depression) and the testosterone is normal the general thought from the doctors is that my continuing sadness and fear is still from the cymbalta withdrawal. Well at least they are willing to keep and open mind. UNLUCKILY I have to ride this out without any further medicine help. There are no existing antidepressants that are compatible with my meds I am currently taking except (you guessed it) ssris. They don't want me on ssris because it will just make my sore breasts worse and my non-existant sex life less existant. lol  They beleive that at the rate I am improving it may be another 4 to 6 months. Shoot, it not like I have a life ti live!! The good news is that the crying has about stopped and my breast pain is deminishing.

 

Keep up the good fight to all and may the Lord bless.

[chimera]

sounds like some progress is being made all round (though in a roundabout route as we'd expect from drs/meds and the like!

[baroness]

Have you tried melatonin? I find that it helps me a lot when I can't sleep, and it's something that's already naturally occurring in your brain, so it's not like you'd be taking anything that isn't already there.

[fishinghat]

Your right Chimera, progress can and is slow but at least going in the riht direction for now! Thanks for the concern and encouragement.

[jima1951]

Fish hat, it sounds like you've been going through hell. I hope that you are doing better. I'm just beginning my withdrawal. I have a question about the testosterone replacement therapy. Does cymbalta cause lower testosterone levels? I'm wondering whether I should have mine checked out. My libido has been off since I started cymbalta and like a good little depressed person I've just been blaming myself and my age. Would appreciate your thoughts. Hang in there.

[fishinghat]

jima1951, I hope you are doing well. Not only can cymbalta lower testosterone levels but it can actually STOP your own testosteone production. At the beginning it starts changing some of your testosterone to estradial(sp?), a form of estrogen. This causes swelling of breast tissue and breast pain. These changes can happen very fast. My testosterone went from 400 (range 120 to 560) down to 62 (same range) in just a few months. And you are right, the side effect is depression. I would strongly recommend that you get it tested immediately. Once you come off the cymbalta the effects of the low testosterone is felt in full and makes the withdrawal much worse. If your t is low then this will give you a chance to do something about it right away.

 

The biggest challenge is that with the cessation of cymbalta MOST men get their natural testosterone production back over the next 6 weeks. Meanwhile the depression is horrible. Unluckily I suffered through the depression and found out mine was one of those that wasn't going to come back!! When they put you on testosterone replacement therapy it takes a while (usually about 5 weeks) for your t to return to normal during which time the depression slowly improves. When your t does get back to normal it is not uncommon for about half you depression to be gone. Some further improvement in depression is possible over the next 6 weeks but there is usually some residual depression after all is said and done.

 

I would suggest you get on wikipedia or do a search for a condition called "post ssri sexual dysfunction" which desribes the long-term and even permanent effects of ssris on sexual function.  Good luck and I hope you don't run into the problems I did. If there are any questions you still have let me know. Hang in there!!