17 replies to this topic

[janson1]

hi
After 12 days of withdrawal i'm coming out   
i've been on cymbalta approx. 3 years (1 year 30mg, 1 3/4 year 60mg and 1 month on 120mg) for debilitating bouts of depression the last 5/6 years brought on most probably because of previous drug abuse which started when i was 18 and just after our family immigrated to the The Netherlands (the 'over here on the other side of North America' Netherlands). I'm male and 55+ years old.
The last 1/2 year the cymbalta seemed to stop working after some minor injuries and my father's stroke last summer. I was very depressed and saw no beacon of light for the future. Via my psychologist I made an appointment with a psychiatrist who advised me 1 1/2 moths ago to raise the dosage to 120 mg. Well, this made matters worse so he advised that i stop altogether with cymbalta and said within 1 week of reduction, it shouldn't present a major problem. Oh my my, how wrong he was. When I called him to ask where he based his information on, i received a response something like this; "I know what I'm talking about and it shouldn't present a problem and if you disagree, write a letter of complaint to the authorities." He hung up the phone before I could even ask for some Oxazepam to help lighten the side effects.
For me the physical side effects where the worst for the first 9 days. Brainzaps, completely unbalanced equilibrium, dizziness, physical alienation etc. I know physical side effect are of a passing phase and can handle that knowledge better than the psychological side effects. 
The psychological effects have been the worst for me so far. Lots of  bouts of sudden anxiety and not being able to believe that i'll get better. A few hours i would feel OK and go out to run/jog 6 to 8 kilometers nearly daily and then, bang out of nowhere, the heaviest bouts of losing concentration and belief that i'll get better. 
I'm in dire need of support and knowledge as I don't really know where to start and what to expect.
I have to find a psychiatrist that i can trust but am so weary of going back on meds.
So many more questions and queries but i want to make a start by sending this support plea. Not enough focus and energy to completely write down my thoughts.I just wrote an elaborated post 15 minutes ago and accidentally deleted it before posting which frustrated the hell outta me so let me start by sending this.
Let's help ourselves and each other.

[janson1]

haha. Just found my last post previously automatically saved on this site. i'll post it although it will be a lot of double info because i tried to rewrite it. here goes:

hello
i'm new here and have been referring to this site since i went off the cymbalta 12 days ago.
i'll try to fill you in on some initial info and where i'm coming from.
since 5/6 years ago i've been suffering from depressions and completely burned out when this was paired with a neck hernia. i've been prescribed anti-depressants from then on. previous meds didn't work and thus was started on cymbalta 30 mg approximately 3 years ago. the first year i was unstable as depressions would come back on a regular basis so my dosage was upped to 60 mg. for 15 months i felt stable and had no reoccurring bouts of depression. last february i received a few minor injuries that kept me from my 2/3 x per week jogging sessions and out of the blue i just seemed to lose my stability. in the summer my dad had a stroke and this was the event that threw me over the edge. via my psychologist we found a psychiatrist that advised upping the dosage to 120mg. i took on the advise but after 1 month it got so much worse that my thoughts on how to remove myself from this planet became unbearable. i purposely don't say suicidal as i've never tried to commit it but i guess i couldn't have come much closer. i made another appointment with the psychiatrist  and he advised me to stop taking cymbalta going from 120mg to zero within 1 week. well you can of course more or less fill in the gaps what happened due to his ignorant advice. ...full on cold turkey with all the side effects mentioned all over this forum. brainzaps, completely out of balance/equilibrium, heavy anxiety, scared, alienation of mind and body, etc.i phoned the psychiatrist back questioning where he based his decision on that it was ok to more or less cold turkey off of cymbalta and for some meds (oxazepam) to tranquilize me. he got got so pissed off that i questioned his decision that he hung up the phone and told me to otherwise write a complaint to the authorities. i didn't even have time to ask for a prescription for Oxazepam to stop me from going crazy from the side effects of the withdrawal.
ok, ok i'll try to formulate my question.
now i'm off cymbalta this long, which way to go. i don't want to go back on cymbalta and wean/taper off to make it more bearable. i'm afraid to take too many benzos/sleeping pills during the day. my biggest problem at the moment is, is that i'm stuck in the major depression that got me here. most of the physical side effects have gotten better so there's a sign to people asking how long the side effects can take. Even though i was afraid to go outside and couldn't keep proper balance and felt like constantly fainting, I went outside nearly everyday with help from my girlfriend and most days i get out to run/jog 6-8 kilometers.

[fishinghat]

Janson1, welcome. There are several things you can consider. Do a little research on the site for supplements. Many people get a lot of help from theses. I would warn against using a benzo (like oxazepam) as they are very addictive and it will just be another withdrawal later that can be as drastic as the cymbalta.  I had some success with hydroxyzine which is anxolytic and NOT addictive but may not cover enough of the withdrawal symptoms to make you comfortable. Probably the most often used option is to go back on a low dose ssri with a long half life. With a long half life it is much easier to come off these drugs. These include things like lexapro, prozac or zoloft. Once the withdrawal symptoms from the cymbalta fade away then the individual comes of the secondary ssri (eg. Prozac).

[janson1]

Thnx fishinghat. I've had previous experiences with a few other ssri meds that we're ultimately quite bad. just like being prescribed cymbalta, symptoms of depression became much worse until the meds kicked in. won't this happen again if i would start on a low dosage of prozac or another ssri med? the physical stuff i can handle but the mental instability and plunging depths that come out of nowhere are the things that scare me off. just the idea that it would get worse because of adjusting to prozac or any other ssri. would a low dosage of prozac stabilize me mentally? would this be for just a few weeks? 
i've been prescribed meds like citalopram (celexa) and a few others before but they only made matters worse in the long run but one thing i didn't get was these withdrawal symptoms. if i'm to take any other meds in the future, i will definitely read up about the long term effects.
i also read something about splitting capsules of cymbalta has to be done carefully. in the week going down from 120 mg - zero i split the capsules in half and just folded the edges in and swallowed with water where some loose beads would just fall into my mouth. could you clarify the dangers of this. 

[fishinghat]

I follow what you said about the problems of switching from one ssri to another. The idea of taking say prozac is just to take the edge off your withdrawal so it is more tolerable. Once your cymbalta withdrawal is over then you come off the prozac (slowly). So yes you would only be on the prozac a few weeks, maybe 2 or 3 months depending on the severity of your withdrawal. Really the only danger I know of is increasing the risk of suicide. Going cold turkey or rapid reduction like you did obviously can cause the worse withdrawals. Although not extremely common there have been those who committed suicide during withdrawal.

 

For most of us on this site the safiest way to withdraw is 'bead counting'. This is where you open your capsule, remove 5 beads and put the capsule back to gether and take it. The next day take out 10 beads, the next 15 beads. Most capsules contain 200 to 400 beads. This is a very slow process but allows you body to adjust to each new dose. When you get down to only 10 beads in a capsule then you decrease by one bead a day. This method still has some withdrawal but it is a lot less severe than cold turkey.

 

Remember, once you are off the ssris you may have a return of your depression that started this. Some do and some don't.

Good luck!!

[OverIt]

Hang in there!  Day 11 and I feel closer to "normal".  I'm really hoping that I'll stay free of the depression and be chemical free.

[thismoment]

Overit, surely you will encounter some depth of emotion soon, and for me I wasn't looking forward to this for the same reason. However, it turned out to be the first 'human' emotion I had felt for two years, and it was a joy to feel sadness again!

 

Go with it, as you can't stop it. Hopefully it will be wonderful real emotion, arriving to help you be free. Stay strong.

[Cath]

Congratulations!  Continue on the path you are on.  I'm just a few weeks ahead of you, but it can be done.  On Cymbalta for about 5 years and ended in the ER in September with Serotonin Syndrome after I was given Imitrex for migraines.  Not supposed to take Imitrex with Cymbalta or Trazadone or Flexeril and possibly Norco and I was on all of it.  I had to quit cold turkey and it does get better and the worst was the first 2 weeks for me.  I'm having emotions that I haven't had in years--actually crying when I should and then when I shouldn't too.  I have more energy.  Downside is anxiety and insomnia continue to be a problem, but I believe it will all get better with time.  Still some GI problems, but getting better too.  I have to work on the depression part daily.  Wish it worked like I've been told.  Chose to be happy and you will be.  So much easier said than done.  Anyway, hang in there.  The worst is behind you. 

[janson1]

today day 12/13 and on the whole i'll give it a good mark because i really have to lighten up on myself. i've been beating myself up because i'm constantly confused (eg. leave my keys in the door). i had to travel by train to get home and am proud of myself for just making it home without a major breakdown. yes, these are the small improvements i am going to start to focus on. i can't compare myself with what i could physically/mentally handle 2 weeks ago. i feel that my iq has dropped by 30 points. one thing really helped and that was running/jogging since day 1. i know some of you are laughing at the idea but my girlfriend took me by the hand because the first week i thought i would just faint on the street and be run over by a car. after the first few times with my, ahem ;-), personal nurse, that gave me enough self belief that if i pushed myself a bit, i wouldn't just keel over and die. every step i took it felt like my body would just keep moving forward. i had no synchronization between body and mind and constantly felt as though i would fall over. but every run is giving me confidence in my physical stability. of course this affects  the mental side as well. i'm so far i guess, that i'll continue without taking any minimal amounts of another ssri to compensate. just the idea gives me the creeps. further down the line i will look into alternative therapies outside of meds although i'm still on sleeping pills by night and have been for a really long time. but hey ... that's a  possible goal for the future. 'baby steps', will have to motto but at times difficult to ascertain. i'm sending this post right now because just writing this is exhausting me of my energy and that equals a minor meltdown. time to recuperate. stay strong guys and gals. i'll be back.

[thismoment]

Janson1 good work!! You are so fortunate to have your girlfriend; she is a jewel!  And when you look back on this adventure you'll realize you probably could not have come through this without her.  Certainly some warriors can push through this hell alone, but it's so wonderful to have support.

 

Keep up the good work, both of you.

[janson1]

one huge tip. once you start feeling tired, just stop everything and make sure you can get to a place with as little input as possible. breathe deep and lie down if possible. if i don't do this and just keep on doing what i'm doing (eg. cleaning the kitchen, stay behind the computer) i go into an anxiety mode and my body starts to shudder/shake. once you except that this WILL happen during certain times during withdrawal and deal with it accordingly, you'll be well on the way to get a handle on your own personal withdrawal limits. listen to your body and try not to fight it by finishing something off because you feel you should and in normal circumstances it wouldn't present a problem. you are not in normal mode during withdrawal and the sooner you can except that for yourself, you'll automatically lighten up on yourself. even if this happens 10 times a day. take a step back and recuperate. i've learned a few breathing exercises via yoga and that helps immensely to calm down those nerves that are about to snap. even without knowledge of specific breathing exercises, just take deep full breaths  with hands on your stomach and see your tummy rise on the breath in and then fully breath out. so simple, so effective.
cheers y'all.

[thismoment]

Janson1 good stuff! Your yoga sounds similar to Mindfulness Meditation, which I use to create some quiet spaces within the inner verbal automaticity.

[janson1]

day 15. at least not scared to wake up in the mornings and am looking forward to finding help with depressions via 'my way'. this for me means not waiting to go into crisis first before asking for help but to stipulate an alternative route without meds. i have to pace myself because out of nowhere i can become tired and then frustration sets in and everything becomes a negative self fulfilling prophecy. i start getting uncoordinated, then start dropping things etc. and that only leads to frustration and negative thoughts. now i'm learning a bit better to know that you can control it by pacing yourself. not trying to undo all your wrongs in one go just because you have started to feel better. my thoughts are not very cognitive at the moment but yes, things get better. don't forget, from 120mg to 0 in 1 week and then cold turkey. i'm so glad i didn't know what was about to hit me at the time and by the time i contacted a physician/psychiatrist, i was already 3 days into cold turkey and didn't dare to go back on cymbalta even though thoughts of complete insanity and death were making me want to make an end to it all by all means necessary. but irrational thoughts gave way to survival thoughts and now i'm off the cymbalta. this doesn't mean i'm off the effects it's having/had on my life but i am waking up instead of succumbing. 
i wish you all loads of strength. strength that we all have somewhere in our deepest core.

[equuswoman]

haha. Just found my last post previously automatically saved on this site. i'll post it although it will be a lot of double info because i tried to rewrite it. here goes:

hello
i'm new here and have been referring to this site since i went off the cymbalta 12 days ago.
i'll try to fill you in on some initial info and where i'm coming from.
since 5/6 years ago i've been suffering from depressions and completely burned out when this was paired with a neck hernia. i've been prescribed anti-depressants from then on. previous meds didn't work and thus was started on cymbalta 30 mg approximately 3 years ago. the first year i was unstable as depressions would come back on a regular basis so my dosage was upped to 60 mg. for 15 months i felt stable and had no reoccurring bouts of depression. last february i received a few minor injuries that kept me from my 2/3 x per week jogging sessions and out of the blue i just seemed to lose my stability. in the summer my dad had a stroke and this was the event that threw me over the edge. via my psychologist we found a psychiatrist that advised upping the dosage to 120mg. i took on the advise but after 1 month it got so much worse that my thoughts on how to remove myself from this planet became unbearable. i purposely don't say suicidal as i've never tried to commit it but i guess i couldn't have come much closer. i made another appointment with the psychiatrist  and he advised me to stop taking cymbalta going from 120mg to zero within 1 week. well you can of course more or less fill in the gaps what happened due to his ignorant advice. ...full on cold turkey with all the side effects mentioned all over this forum. brainzaps, completely out of balance/equilibrium, heavy anxiety, scared, alienation of mind and body, etc.i phoned the psychiatrist back questioning where he based his decision on that it was ok to more or less cold turkey off of cymbalta and for some meds (oxazepam) to tranquilize me. he got got so pissed off that i questioned his decision that he hung up the phone and told me to otherwise write a complaint to the authorities. i didn't even have time to ask for a prescription for Oxazepam to stop me from going crazy from the side effects of the withdrawal.
ok, ok i'll try to formulate my question.
now i'm off cymbalta this long, which way to go. i don't want to go back on cymbalta and wean/taper off to make it more bearable. i'm afraid to take too many benzos/sleeping pills during the day. my biggest problem at the moment is, is that i'm stuck in the major depression that got me here. most of the physical side effects have gotten better so there's a sign to people asking how long the side effects can take. Even though i was afraid to go outside and couldn't keep proper balance and felt like constantly fainting, I went outside nearly everyday with help from my girlfriend and most days i get out to run/jog 6-8 kilometers.

 

janson1, Hi and welcome to the support forum. I have started the bead counting method only last evening and had a bit of nausea this early AM but not so much that I am not going to remove 5 beads again from my Cymbalta capsule again the evening. I want OFF this hellish drug that has caused me such horrific side effects. I went from 60 down to 30 and then the 10th day the Hell began from the withdrawal s/s....Did this the way the physician instructed. Needless to say it did NOT work. Thus the 'bead count'....Glad UR here on this supportive site. The ppl here can so relate and that IMHO is such a good thing! GodBless us all as we go down this road...EquusWoman

[janson1]

today a difficult day after the last 2 went swimmingly good considering. had 2 big anxiety meltdowns with major sweating spells. i went with my girlfriend to town to go shopping and also started talking about the upcoming vacation in january. these are the kind of days that you read about on this forum that you think it can only get better everyday. this was my 17th day cold turkey but boy, did it come back with vengeance. this completely deflated me today and i'm looking forward to going to sleep and cross off this day. it seems the days i don't activate my endorphins by running. i get a backlash. surely i can't keep running 7 days a week but as it's one of my successful tools. i will go a often as possible while being careful i don't pick up an injury because i've been pushing my body to the max. tomorrow's just gotta be better. yes folks, it's a rocky road to recuperation. one thing i'm happy about and that's that i didn't take a oxazepam/seresta and sat out the attacks. talk soon. have a good day all.

[Donnaprashad]

I'm new here. Been on this mess for about 7 years. Tried to get off before and I couldn't do it. This is awful. I'm scared after reading these posts. I'm a lawyer and I'm afraid this will affect my ability to do my job. I just need to hear that this is worth the effort of stopping. I hate taking this stuff. I was put on it during chemo and then remained on it when I learned my mother had terminal cancer and was her caretaker. Does this drug change your brain? And is it reversible?

[ZappAlta]

Yes Donna many experience gloom and hopeless doubt's in very early withdrawal.I recall looking out my window while struggling to force myself to eat and then telling mysel'f I spose I may never be able to get off this medication'I felt like I was stranded on a lake with no oars and tossed about .Well maybe been Irish and a redhead lol I took it on as a temper challenge-sweated through it -cursed through it and each day I conquered a little gain -actually marking my calender 'as either a better day or another f' up day <i must be still angry lol. I had 2 falls walking my dog because of my withdrawal balance issues -fortunately only minor scrapes to my knees and hands.I quit driving for 2 weeeks -my brain wanted to go left and I had to wait for my eyes to decide on focusing...  Well 2 months out I aint looking back except to help others on here.  I am 80% better -I do find if I get overtired or have a glass of wine I have some symptoms return-so no wine when i dine out for now.Think of it this way' it was a horrible drug with similiar side effects when you started it 'now its reverse mode and yes chemically it did alter our Brain so we must be patient and wait for healing. 

[thismoment]

ZappAlta-

 

You are doing so well! Two months out and 80% is fantastic! And it will get better and better- as you said, be patient while you heal. Here's my mantra: 'Three months to wean and nine months to heal'. I am happy for you!

 

Donnaprashad-

 

Yes, it will affect your ability to do your job, and for a varying length of time- depending on how you withdraw. Everybody is different, but if you go cold turkey, you could experience acute withdrawal symptoms (like those described on this site) for 2-3 weeks, and you couldn't work through that. But after that, things improve steadily, and as ZappAlta said, at two months 80% is about right (it was for me too).

 

If you wean off, say at +1% per day, you will be able to work through probably all of your withdrawal, with some minor challenges and with a few strategic rest-days off. Count the beads in a capsule and determine what 1% of that is. If it's 200 beads- Day 1- 2 beads out, reassemble the capsule and swallow it; Day 2- 4 beads out; Day 3- 6 beads out and so on. You're done in 100 days. Now you need some months to heal and continue to recover, and re-discover the new you.

 

You can try to do it faster: Should the withdrawals become too difficult, level off on your bead count (or even back up a day or two) until you become stable, then continue counting beads. Anecdotal- I withdrew at +2.3% each day over 42 days and would not attempt that rate again! It was too steep, and I wasn't sane enough to level off when it got rough.

 

For me, it was worth the effort; it was withdraw or die. If your mind is who and what you are, then I had lost my mind. I had no choice. But it sounds like it may not be that bad for you at this time. I know what you mean, "I hate taking this stuff."

 

"Does this drug change your brain?" 

 

I don't mean to be glib, but every experience changes your brain- and I mean physically. The brain you will have after withdrawal can't possibly be the same as the brain you had 7 years ago- even without the drug. This is one expectation that some people struggle with: they say I don't 'feel' the same. Is it the passage of time, or is it the drug?- probably it's both. Moreover, some SSRI/SNRI survivors report that some symptoms just don't go away (it's in the Warning literature), and if the symptoms are permanent, then your brain is indeed changed.

 

"And is it reversible?"

 

If your brain ran on digital data- then yes it's totally reversible: just dump this program and re-install the old software. But the changes are physical, and new physical changes will have to take place as your brain adapts to its new drug-free chemistry. This is the healing- the re-growth- and it takes time. How long? I don't know, and I don't know if the question is answerable. I'm out 16 months and I continue to improve subtly. But I do have a couple of tolerable symptoms that (so far) are permanent.

 

I wish you all the best!