29 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

A new cymbalta article has just come out, unluckily even the abstrat is not available without a subscription.;

 

 

BMJ. 2014 Jan 17;348:g139. doi: 10.1136/bmj.g139.

Bad medicine: the rise of duloxetine.

Spence D.

[equuswoman]

figures....

[FiveNotions]

Hello there....I've been a "lurker" here since the first week of December 2013, when I unintentionally went off this poison cold-turkey...I'll write more about that later, and introduce myself more completely...but for now, what drew me out of lurking and into membership and posting is this article that fishinghat found..... I'm a research librarian by profession...at least I was, before my brain got fried... And I figured I'd see if I could find the article free, or cheap....

I think it's freely available direct from the publisher, if we sign up for a free 14 day trial of the journal..... Here's the link.... I didn't do the sign up thing yet myself, as I got so excited to share...so, if I'm wrong, please forgive me ....and I'll keep looking...

http://www.bmj.com/c...nt/348/bmj.g139

You all have been a gift from God to me during this horrid experience....I cannot thank you enough....and I am praying for all of you...us....

+++

[fishinghat]

I saw the free 14 day trial but to be honest I did not want to sign up because every time I do I get all sort of viruses and such. There again, I am not a real computer expert either!! lol

 

By the way, welcome to the site. May your cymbalta withdrawal be smooth.

[fishinghat]

I went in and read the terms of their free trial offer. It states they do use cookies to track your web usage and they do reserve the right to sell your email address to online retailers. I pass.

[fishinghat]

Wow!! I just got an email from that journal BMJ. It says because I accessed their site they had the right to download cookies onto my computer. They said there is a small fine print warning at the top of there site informing people that the use of their site may result in cookies being placed on the users computer. What sleezee people! Out comes the Norton Antivirus program. Ugh!!

[FiveNotions]

Oh dear, what a poor way to introduce myself to this wonderful group.... I apologize! I've got my computer loaded to the gills with all the security stuff...and I haven't gotten slammed...yet...I also downloaded the article.....and will read it and excerpt key points to share here.... :-(

[equuswoman]

Oh dear, what a poor way to introduce myself to this wonderful group.... I apologize! I've got my computer loaded to the gills with all the security stuff...and I haven't gotten slammed...yet...I also downloaded the article.....and will read it and excerpt key points to share here.... :-(

fivenotions, yes please share the info when you can I am curious about what it has to say. TC TheEquusWoman

[fishinghat]

FiveNotions, watch out for the cookies. I happened to do a routine scan yesterday and cleaned up everything. Now that I got their message I rescanned and removed 24 cookies!!!

 

Yea, I am real interestedd in what it says too. Happy reading and thanks.

[Timbo]

I went ahead and signed up for the free trial (cookies and all).  Watch away BMJ!  :-)  

 

Anyway, I was expecting to see a research article with data to back up our experiences.  This is an anecdotal article from Dr. Des Spence (General Practice Physician in Glasgow).  I do, however, think the points he makes are intriguing and worth exploring.   Hopefully, he is someone who is able to influence future research of duloxetine.  

 

He clearly has read some of the online posts from people experiencing "discontinuation syndrome."  I love that he made mention of that fact.  He also makes a point of the rapid expansion of the number of uses for Cymbalta - primarily related to pain management.    He challenges the statistical significance of the studies based on data gathered related to medically unexplained symptoms (for example, fibromyalgia).   Coupled with research that indicated a relatively high placebo effect, that certainly would enhance the chance of unnecessary prescribing.   You can't deny that from a business perspective, the benefits of capturing the market on patients experiencing "pain" would be (and has been) a brilliant venture...for their business, anyway. 

 

I sure hope that some other research is going to be emerging soon to address some of these questions.  

 

Thanks for sharing the article ink.   This post is, of course, just my own interpretation of what I read.  I'd be interested to hear what other people here think.    Dr. Spence's email address was given.  I am going to send him an email.  Hopefully, he'll respond.  :-) 

[fishinghat]

Thanks a lot Timbo. Your right, it is a shame that it is only a subjective review. But each professional like him that begins to question cymbalta is a step closer.

[equuswoman]

I, like so many others, was prescribed Cymbalta for relief with pain of my lower back due to osteoarthritis. I have and still am on this nasty 'bad' drug. I know that it helps some ppl. I am not one of them. I know that 80% can quit cold turkey and have no difficulties. I am not 'apparently' one of them. However I will one day in the future be FREE of this poison.

 

I would love to read more about this.

[FiveNotions]

I apologize for not staying in touch on this... I seem to "lose track" of time now...whole days go by without me being aware of it...anyway, I'm still working on getting that article for you....my computer skills are shot right now it seems...so please bear with me....

But, I did find Dr. Spence's blog:

http://bad4umedicine.blogspot.com

His twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/des_spence1

And an article about him in a recent issue of "The Mail" (UK):

Antidepressants prescribed 'too easily' says GP
http://www.telegraph...ly-says-GP.html

From a brief literature scan I did, the psych. docs are pretty much excoriating him....must mean he's on the right track! :-D

[fishinghat]

I kinda fiqured he idn't get too many Christmas cards from his peers. lol   At least he has guts enough to speak up.

[equuswoman]

Wow, just think how much money 'they' have made on these patients who were prescribed this medication for 'chronic' pain! Some it helps, maybe, some not so much! But it hasn't helped me and I just want OFF....

[equuswoman]

FiveNotions, I'm glad that you found the forum. Hope you're getting better, slowly but better. Prayers and hope for you.

TheEquusWomam

[FiveNotions]

EW...thank you .... The love and kindness I've found here is the medicine I need.... We all need.... And now, I'll sign off and say my evening prayers.... Each and everyone of you are included, now and forever!

[equuswoman]

EW...thank you .... The love and kindness I've found here is the medicine I need.... We all need.... And now, I'll sign off and say my evening prayers.... Each and everyone of you are included, now and forever!

 

Prayer is a most powerful thing IMO. Thank you for including me in yours. I am happy to do the same for you forum friend..

[FiveNotions]

This Isnt bout cymbalta specifically, but I found it interesting:

"Bring back the nervous breakdown: it's more than a mood disorder, it's a total body disorder"

http://www.psycholog...rvous-breakdown

I'm going to go back to using this phrase to describe myself ... It's something everyone can understand and relate to ..... Almost everyone has been there, or close to it,or known someone who has ....

I'm comfortable saying that I've had a series of nervous breakdowns over the course of my life .... Because each episode was so much more than just "major depression" and/ or GAD and/or fibro .... It was physical exhaustion, spiritual brokenness, intense grieving, insomnia, anger, sadness, fear, anxiety, etc. stewed together into one big, indigestible stew of misery .... That no one (or two or three or four) "magic pills" could cure ....

What do y'all think?

[Carleeta]

This Isnt bout cymbalta specifically, but I found it interesting:
"Bring back the nervous breakdown: it's more than a mood disorder, it's a total body disorder"http://www.psycholog...rvous-breakdown
I'm going to go back to using this phrase to describe myself ... It's something everyone can understand and relate to ..... Almost everyone has been there, or close to it,or known someone who has ....
I'm comfortable saying that I've had a series of nervous breakdowns over the course of my life .... Because each episode was so much more than just "major depression" and/ or GAD and/or fibro .... It was physical exhaustion, spiritual brokenness, intense grieving, insomnia, anger, sadness, fear, anxiety, etc. stewed together into one big, indigestible stew of misery .... That no one (or two or three or four) "magic pills" could cure ....
What do y'all think?

FiveNations. .very interesting article. Thank you for sharing..others will find this interesting, if not helpful as well.

For me I've been on the fence reading so many different article and studies which leads me back to one thing every night.."What is my body telling me?" That's all I can truly trust.. Although I love the new name. It's a great way to break away from the nervous breakdown term...Psychology today is a great magazine. I receive the subscriptions in the mail. Very interesting magazinr. I enjoy it very much..Keep up the good work..You are doing great...

[fishinghat]

I agree FiveNotions. It has been shown that each of these major negative episodes creat changes not only in our brains by altering its physical and chemical structure but it also changes the structure of our neuroreceptors. Most of the psych meds only act to block the neuroreceptors so we don't suffer as much. All of the above tie into what is called cellular conditioning. Our nerve cells become conditioned to react a certain way. A good therapist can do a lot to recondition a person but they can't turn the whole process around.There is a lot of research going on right now concerning the long-lasting or permanent changes that psych meds cause to our brains, DNA and nerve receptors. There is already significant proof that paxil, zoloft and cymbalta can cause irreversible damage. I think in the next 20 years the the thought that ssri and snris are magic will turn into them being a drug of last choice. Unluckily any major breakthroughs will probably come to late to help most of us.

[Carleeta]

Fishinghat and FiveNotions. ..my previous reply was meant for Fishinghat in the findings of the interesting article.

[FiveNotions]

Couldn't happen to a "nicer" company ....

Lilly's cymbalta to trigger 'sever' sales slide in FY 2014
http://www.foxbusine...cymbalta-slide/

[FiveNotions]

I couldn't find a specific fibromyalgia discussion ... If this should go elsewhere please let me know ....

Fibromyalgia pain reduced with vitamin D
http://guardianlv.co...with-vitamin-d/

[FiveNotions]

Courts rules against plaintiff, for Lilly /cymbalta
http://www.mondaq.co...sation No Claim


Lexipro, cymbalta and a couple other drugs mentioned ....
http://www.fool.com/...rviving-in.aspx

UK patient forum .... Duloxetine use .....
http://www.patient.c...duloxetine-2739

Report reveals tricks of pharmaceutical trade. [the b@st@rds!]
http://www.theguardi...1807960,00.html

GSK ends payments to doctors in incentives shake-up
http://www.telegraph...s-shake-up.html

Eli Lilly 'deeply concerned' about bribery allegations
http://articles.merc...activities.aspx

Drug makers cut marketing payments to Maine doctors [includes names of docs and amount paid]
http://www.presshera...ml?pagenum=full

[Carleeta]

FiveNotions. .very interesting articles..All boils down to money.. It's sad the way medicines are prescribed, doctors have the belief these prescriptions are good, our insurance rates go up, insurance companies make money, drug companies make money, yet there are so many pp hurting physically, mentally, and financially...

[fishinghat]

That fifth articale about bribery is a little misleading though. I lived in the orient for several years and their system is not like ours. When a pharm company produces a drug over there it must agree to pay the drs to prescribe it. It is sort of an open bidding situation. If Eli Lilley agrees to pay a dr say $20 for each cymbalta prescription and the manufacturer of prozac is willing to pay a doctor $40, guess what the dr will prescribe? Prozac of course. In addition the doctor does not write a script like here. He simply rights down the name of the drug on a piece of paper and the person takes that to the pharmacy. An example of how this works...Lets say my doc said to take cymbalta but I get to the pharmacy and find that it is going to cost me $50 per month and I tell the pharmasist that I can not afford that. He may then recommend say prozac for $25 per month. And home I go with prozac. Pharmacies there have sales just like at Wal-marts here. If they are over stocked with Zoloft they just run a sale. If I visit an oriental country (and I have had to do this) and I need some cymbalta because I am running low then I just go to the pharmacy and buy it, no prescription necessary. There is no sharing of information between pharmacies either. It is up to the patient to be sure of drug compatabilities although the pharmasists do have a database they can check if the patient asks.  One of the biggest problems they have is people refering other people to certain drugs. If someone there takes a benzo and they like the fact it relaxes them and helps them sleep then they will call relatives and say 'Boy you have to try this. it is great'. It is up to the pharmasist to decide on a strength to dispense. And last but not least there is no information given out with the meds unless the manufacturer has a printout in the box it comes in. Patients are expected to go on line for details.

 

I nearly went to work at Upjohn in Korea back in.....never mind the year isn't important. lol   Many US companies make more drugs in Japan, Korea or even China than they do here. Anyway I am rambling.

[FiveNotions]

Fishing hat ... Wow, just wow ... That's fascinating ... And more than a bit scary .... You've got a lot of knowledge about these various drugs, and the industry ... I'd love to hear more ... If I recall, you've added some very informative comments to various discussions about these issues around the forums ... Are there other articles that you cld share with us?

[fishinghat]

Fishing hat ... Wow, just wow ... That's fascinating ... And more than a bit scary .... You've got a lot of knowledge about these various drugs, and the industry ... I'd love to hear more ... If I recall, you've added some very informative comments to various discussions about these issues around the forums ... Are there other articles that you cld share with us?

FiveNotions, I usually spend about one evening a week digging through the internet to see what new I can find about cymbalta or other ssris. I am always glad to post them.

[FiveNotions]

"Duty to warn weakened for drug makers". ---- scroll down for discussion of the cymbalta lawsuit ....
http://www.law360.co...-for-drugmakers