256 replies to this topic

[gail]

Oh well, geez I feel very upset and wondering, are these symptoms of withdrawal or dysthimia after almost 7 weeks?

 

Woke up at 2.20am feeling so upset about the converstion with the psychiatrist. The first part where he said this was not withdrawal but dysthimia,  the nausea, crying bouts, lack of appetite, anxiety and at times depressed moods.

 

How do we know the difference? That got me so down and frightened.

 

I was happy that in the last week I had 3 nice days, week before 2 good,  I was getting hopeful.

 

Please tell me how we know the difference?

 

 

[Carleeta]

Gail, it's extremely frustrating when trying to figure out if we're suffering from withdrawl or if it could be something else..Dr's simply don't have enough information on cymbalta or any drug for that matter..We need to just keep track of what are body is telling us and report these symptoms back to them; even if it's over and over..Eventually they 'get it', or refer us elsewhere, or we change doctors..Somewhere, somehow we get out message across..

Try to Not focus entirely on what the dr said, and listen to your own body to tell you what 'you are feeling'.

You did notice a few weeks ago you had 2 good days, and last week 3 good days..There you go; you know you are getting better even if it's just a little bit...Please try and focus on those good days and know more of them will be coming...

I truly understand how frustrating this is and I'll pray you soon will feel more of the good ones..

thoughts and prayers are with you..

[fishinghat]

I can not answer your question Gail. I can tell you this. One of the basic withdrawal symptoms is insecurity and doubting yourself and all around you.  There are no sure answers but time will tell. Unluckily seven weeks is not enough to be sure. I know you are having some good days occasionally. Try to focus on those. Keep a journal and especially note those good days or even a few good hours. With time you will notice a pattern of improvement or stagnation. I am afraid you will need another month or 2 to make a good decision on your future. . That journal will make the picture clearer. Be strong my friend.

[gail]

Thanks Carleeta, you are right, focus on the good days. I'm trying to say to myself, even if it is dysthimia, well, good days are coming my way, slowly.

 

Fh, I have been keeping a daily journal for the last year, specially those last weeks. From 0 good days to 1 and a half to 2 and a half and to 3. I see small improvements, specially upon waking up, mind is clearer, went with a friend for coffee twice recently, had not done that in 3 months. Going to a conference thursday, small things that are happening.

 

It's that on bad days, I feel i've always been there. Like today, what a depressing state of mind. Yesterday is hard to process,  dysthimia would be hard to accept. But for sure, I know that nausea is withdrawal.

 

Will keep on writing daily, and wait for a month or so to pass. As you say, time will tell.Thank you so much.

[equuswoman]

prayers for strength for you sweet forum friend. A journal helps me. Somehow it helps to write things down.

Please know that we are here for you. It is a very difficult journey you are on and we are here every step of

the way! Love & Support for you from TheEquusWoman

[TryinginFL]

Gail.... I don't know what else I could possibly add to the above posts, but want you to know that you will remain in my thoughts and prayers that your good days will continue to increase...

 

Liz

[gail]

And to say that I was the one to pray for a lot of people around me, and now others are doing it for me, makes me cry.

 

I so appreciate this gesture of prayers and I thank you. It means a lot.

[Wagtail]

Gail, I feel your pain & confusion..:-(

I don't know what to think anymore !.
At the start I was fully aware that I was suffering from withdrawal & with a lot of help from you guys I rode the huge waves of terror.
Then I moved forward to the side effects of discontinuation & accepted that as well .

Now I'm well & truly stuck in No Mans land.

I feel bad & depressed with some fear thrown in for good measure. I have tried to get out & about to keep my mind from thinking too much, but it's almost impossible to do when I feel so sick with hard to hide feelings washing over me constantly .
Just talking is hard @ times & trying to articulate the actual physical feelings is almost impossible . The only place I seem to be able to cope is @ home !.
Am I suffering from depression again or am I still in the throes of the discontinuation syndrome ?. I just don't know anymore & it scares me.
If I go to a doctor , what is he going to do to help me ?. I don't want to go back onto any antidepressants & from everything I read on here that's seems to be the only option the doctors can offer.

I haven't been to the gym for almost 2 weeks , because I just can't get motivated too & don't feel well enough .
I did manage a day out last Friday but have been sick ever since !,

Hypothetically speaking ... Why isn't there doctors trained to help us through this !!!!!.

[fishinghat]

"It's that on bad days, I feel i've always been there."

 

Man that is soooo Cymbalta!!  When you feel bad you feel like you have been that way forever and when you feel good you feel like it will last forever.

[gail]

Wagtail, this is a tough boat ride.

 

I hear you. I wonder what Fishinghat would reply to this. With all his expertise, I think that he could guide you in this.

Maybe he's gone fishing. lol

 

I know that he's been back on antidepressant, and hydroxyzine, and seems to be doing OK.

 

He would be the one to help you through this.

 

I know that not knowing if this is withdrawal or depression coming back is a killer.

 

I was out of my mind yesterday, no control whatsoever on it, panic and fear and depression, even ativan did not do it's job.

 

So today, well, I dont know what it will bring, for God to know and for us to find out. I sure hope He has a nice surprise for us.

[GinnyKim61]

Hi Gail, I was reading up on dysthimia after I read your post. I've suffered with depression throughout my whole life and the symptoms I have with going off of Cymbalta do not add up to what they say about the dysthimia. I have never felt this way while depressed. Deep inside I feel this is withdrawal symptoms for you. You have had some really good days and then the bad come. I have that too with my withdrawal. Keep doing what you are doing. I will keep you in my prayers. Sending lot's of love, Ginny

[thismoment]

Gail and Wagtail- this is the heart of the matter!

What you are both describing is the standard course of this condition that's being called the Antidepressant Disease. Depression, exhaustion, nausea, lack of interest in everyday things like socializing and sex, and melancholy all are withdrawal-related. BUT they look exactly like the the primary condition! The prescription is issued and the patient that had been working through withdrawal is now back on an antidepressant for another year or two. That's how it goes.

So when someone walks into the doctor's office with these symptoms they walk out with a prescription. And if the patient is in withdrawal, and if the doctor is unfamiliar with the intimate details of withdrawal, the prescription still gets written.

So what are we to do, and how are we to know what's what?

We all want to have peace and to be free of depression and anxiety, and it's perfectly understandable that we embrace the offer of medication to make us feel better. I can't say what either of you should do. And I know that I could have easily been talked into starting a new antidepressant during the first 6 months of my withdrawal. It was rough, and I was as depressed in withdrawal as when I started. But for me, the drug Cymbalta added a dimension to my life that was far worse than any depression I have ever felt.

I know this probably isn't helpful, but it takes much longer than the literature would indicate (the stuff is written by the pharmaceutical company), and it takes longer than the doctor will tell you. Of course your first duty is to protect yourself, and only you can know what that means. If someone were to ask my advice, I would say stay off the antidepressant beyond 6 months, and engage in weekly sessions with a psychologist. Then re-assess.

I just re-read this and I don't know if it's of any value or not. But it's what I would recommend to a loved one, so it's all I've got.

[fishinghat]

Wagtail, so sorry that things continue to be bad for you. Only you can decide if you can continue on or not but I just don't see any indication that things are improving for you. No one wants to go back on an antidepressant but no one wants to suffer like this the rest of their life. You are the only one who can answer the question..Are you still improving? If not it may be the time to go to the dr and ask for help. There is no shame in that. You certainly have out up a strong fight for a long time and have no reason to feel bad about taking more meds. Sometimes there is no choice. May God Bless and give you direction.

[gail]

Ginny, you might be right, because, myself have never felt bad like this during depression.  Today seems like a good day, well half of it actually.

 

Thismoment, how invigoring and helping is your reply. To know that you have fought it  yourself for a long duration, the first 6 months,  is of great value to me. When you say you could have at any moment grabbed the first antidepressant around, and did not, that is a statement.

I see that you are 90% better, if I remember correctly. That is signicative. Your post is of great helping and I hope that Wagtail sees it.

 

And I sure hope that someday, I can be as helpful to others as you are. Thanks

 

Can you explain what you mean when you say that cymbalta added a dimension to your life that was far worse than any depression you have never felt?  I do not quite understand your statement even though it rings a bell.

[thismoment]

Hi Gail

I hope you are well. Thank you for the kind words.

On Cymbalta my emotions totally flat-lined, and I cared about nothing- least of all myself. I emerged into a dead-flat mind space where morals and ethics have no meaning-- I could have done absolutely anything without a hesitation! But thankfully nothing occurred to me. Everything was 'neutral', and there was no room for the very last grace we humans need to go on-- hope.

Two choices slowly filtered into my consciousness: end Cymbalta, or end my life.

[Clara]

wagtail, please hang in there! No shame in going back on meds if you need to. I'm still hanging in with mostly good days, but the bad are BAD! I laid around the house all day on Sunday after church and read. Nothing productive,,, but I've come to accept those days as just another day of life off Cymbalta and praying the good days increase and the bad go away forever! I do have some good news! My daughter in law is 2months off Cymbalta. It's a strange relationship with my son and fam (thank you Cymbalta for that!), but he and I had a very good phone conversation today. Bless his heart he has been suffering the Cymbalta w/d blowback! Things are improving for son and DIL! Yay yay yay!!!  Hugs and prayers for you all!!!!   clara

[xman]

Heart and hope goes out to gail and Wagtail. HOPE we have that-right?!!!

[Wagtail]

Gail and Wagtail- this is the heart of the matter!
What you are both describing is the standard course of this condition that's being called the Antidepressant Disease. Depression, exhaustion, nausea, lack of interest in everyday things like socializing and sex, and melancholy all are withdrawal-related. BUT they look exactly like the the primary condition! The prescription is issued and the patient that had been working through withdrawal is now back on an antidepressant for another year or two. That's how it goes.
So when someone walks into the doctor's office with these symptoms they walk out with a prescription. And if the patient is in withdrawal, and if the doctor is unfamiliar with the intimate details of withdrawal, the prescription still gets written.
So what are we to do, and how are we to know what's what?
We all want to have peace and to be free of depression and anxiety, and it's perfectly understandable that we embrace the offer of medication to make us feel better. I can't say what either of you should do. And I know that I could have easily been talked into starting a new antidepressant during the first 6 months of my withdrawal. It was rough, and I was as depressed in withdrawal as when I started. But for me, the drug Cymbalta added a dimension to my life that was far worse than any depression I have ever felt.
I know this probably isn't helpful, but it takes much longer than the literature would indicate (the stuff is written by the pharmaceutical company), and it takes longer than the doctor will tell you. Of course your first duty is to protect yourself, and only you can know what that means. If someone were to ask my advice, I would say stay off the antidepressant beyond 6 months, and engage in weekly sessions with a psychologist. Then re-assess.
I just re-read this and I don't know if it's of any value or not. But it's what I would recommend to a loved one, so it's all I've got.

I've run out of likes again ..... LIKE LIKE LIKE ...

[FiveNotions]

Oh wagtail, I wish I could lift this off your shoulders...and toss it into some deep pit full of fire...and set you free....

I may have missed you saying in another post, but do you have someone other than a shrink with whom you can talk all this through? A licensed clinical social worker or psychologist?

And could part of this be attributable to the Lyme disease?

What ThisMoment said is absolutely spot on!

[butterfly7654]

I am so glad I finally found a place where real people are talking about their Cymbalta experiences! I am a woman, almost 60, had a battleground for a childhood (parents fought), married "perfect" guy, had 3 sons, divorced, been single for 10 years... Sounds like a fairly normal life... Looking back now from wiser older age, I know I had issues with depression and/or anxiety most of my life, but didn't realize it then. Over the last 10 years, I've tried different antidepressants, all made me sleepy and unable to function, except Wellbutrin, which did nothing. I used to cry all the time at the drop of a hat, and was put on 60 mg Cymbalta from Nov 2012 til March 2014.  The psychiatrist had me play around with the dose/timeing because it would make me sleepy during the day, but would keep me awake at night--weird. Cymbalta stopped the crying and gave me control over my emotions, like I wanted, but produced other side effects, of course. The worst was the constant all-over sweating! I chose to stop the Cymbalta about 4 months ago for this reason, weaning off over a 2-week period, without the supervision or knowledge of my doctor. I wish I had researched this more first. I quickly developed symptoms that I didn't even associate with Cymbalta withdrawal...vertigo, flu-like symptoms, heavy sweating all over, leg cramps, back muscle spasms, nausea, sleeplessness, stomach cramps, diarheah, headaches... My pcp gave me something for vertigo and figured that was causing a lot of the other symptoms...wrong, and Rx didn't help. I've been just dealing with the symptoms ever since. I did go to my gyn and get Premarin, thinking that would make me feel human again, but that hasn't helped either. About 2 months ago, my psychiatrist started me on Ritalin, after a conversation about my lack of concentration, memory, focus, etc. I think that's helped a little with those issues. But, my biggest complaint, and I'm finally getting to the point of my posting here, is the yucky SWEATING! I didn't have this much trouble when I went through menopause! I'm wet all the time all over! I've researched it and it's called secondary hyperhydrosis, so at least I know it's real:)  But no one has any real solution or prognosis. How long is this going to last? And is there anything I can do about it? I thought once I stopped the Cymbalta the sweating would stop...wrong, again.

[fishinghat]

Butterfly, Welcome

 

I sure am sorry for the suffering you have been through and are still fighting. One thing that concerns me is that it has been 4 months. The sweating, vertigo and some of the other symptoms are usually gone after 4 to 6 weeks. They are some of the first withdrawal symptoms that start to fade away. There is a small percentage of cymbalta users where the withdrawal lasts 6 months or more. Drs estimate around 7%. But again the sweating is usually gone in less than 2 months and they are left fighting anxiety for several more months. Is the sweating (which is common during withdrawal) your only withdrawal symptom you have left?

[thismoment]

Hi butterfly

 

All of the symptoms you describe are consistent with withdrawal from Cymbalta. I note the sweating started while ON Cymbalta, so it's a side-effect of the drug and not specifically withdrawal-related (although it does often appear as a withdrawal symptom too). The link between antidepressants and hyperhydrosis is well-documented. You're at 4 months from (essentially) cold turkey, and most withdrawal symptoms should be calming down now, and as your brain continues to self-repair hopefully you will see the sweats begin to go away as well. 

 

Yes, few drugs help with withdrawal symptoms. However, the Ritalin will boost your dopamine which the SNRI had attenuated, so that will give you some relief.

 

There are others on the forum who have experienced hyperhydrosis relating to Cymbalta or other antidepressants, and hopefully they will weigh in soon. How long will it last? Let 6 months go by before worrying if something may be chronic.

[fishinghat]

I took the liberty of doing a search for 'sweating' on these forums. I ran through the first 50 postings that mentioned sweating. About 35 were discussing their sweating during withdrawal and not one of them were more than 4 weeks into withdrawal. Very unusual.

[TryinginFL]

I know that it is Friday the 13th - full moon and all, but...

 

I have been feeling extremely weak today and have shortness of breath.  This has not happened for some time and I am now 5 months and 1 week through this hell.

 

Could this still be withdrawal (perhaps my age has something to do with it!)???

 

God forbid I am having a heart attack...

[fishinghat]

Not much choice TFL. If there is any doubt there needs to be a trip to the ER. Are you weak on one side only?

[TryinginFL]

No, only when I walk around -

[FiveNotions]

TFL, dear one, if you are having shortness of breath and are weak on one side, even if just when walking around, I think you need to get yourself to the ER....while this could be an extreme panic episode, I just don't think you should risk it.

DO NOT drive yourself to the ER. (You had a very tough day yesterday.)

I think it's time to call someone to take you....if there is a neighbor, regardless of how well you know each other, you could ask them.

However, I think it's time to call 911 for an ambulance...just say that you think you might be having a heart attack....trouble breathing and feel weak on one side.....the medics can check you out when they first arrive...and they'll get you to the ER ...the ER will take you right away....

While you wait, IF you are able to do so, Put ALL your meds in your pocket book, esp. Your benzo, your cell phone, house keys and address book if you use one. Be sure to tell the medics and the ER docs that you were on cymbalta and have been one of the ones who has had severe discontinuance withdrawal syndrome.

Also if you can, PM FH or me your cell number and contact info. We will check on you in real time if you aren't able to get back here for a bit.

You are not alone. We are here for you and praying. You need to be somewhere safe and surrounded by those who can help.

[fishinghat]

Ditto!!

[TryinginFL]

aw crap!   I didn't mean to get everyone in an uproar!  I meant that I felt weak all over when trying to do something.  I have been sitting for about an hr and feel better.  I haven't had weakness on only one side - feeling of being extremely overtired...

 

I can't tell you how much it means to me that all of you are there for me....

Now I'm crying again...

[FiveNotions]

TFL,

Have you taken the alprazolam today? What max. Dose are you allowed per day?

I think you need to take it.....

I also think you need to switch from the really fast acting, and really short half life alprazolam to Valium.....the idiot doc put me on that last Friday....and, as FH has explained, it may take a bit longer to ramp up, but it stays in the system much much longer....I'm already seeing that it levels out the anxiety....rather than the ups and downs that the alprazolam used to give me (which is why I got addicted) and that the lorazepam the idiot gave me more recently.....

Subject to what FH thinks, I say get over to Valium as soon as you can....

You, like me, have some rather "looming" life issues we're facing...and some smaller ones......our little boats can't progress forward if we keep getting tossed into typhoons! ;-)