58 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

The system for cutting benzo dosages is as follows.

 

This is a procedure called water titration. If gives you good control of your withdrawal. I have used this the last 3 times with no withdrawal.

 

1st - I will assume, considering your dose, that you are taking 0.5 mg 4 times a day. If not you will need to start doing that so you will have an even dose in your system at all times.

2nd - Powder (in a mortar and pestal) one days dose (2 mg).

3rd - Dissolve your daily dose in 200 ml of water. Shake well.

4th - Shake well and pour out 50 mls and drink it. 50 mls will hold .5mg. Do this four per day.

 

To make a cut follow the above procedure through step 3. At the end of step 3 you will have 2 mg in 200 ml. To make a three percent cut, shake well, remove 6 ml from that 200 ml solution. Then add make 6 ml of water. Still take 50 mils 4 times per day. To make a 6% cut just remove 12 mls for the original 200 mls and add back 12 mls water.

 

Remember, benzos do not fully dissolve so always shake you solution before making cuts or taking a dose.

[Wagtail]

Hi fishinghat & Gail, I am reading your posts with interest.
I take 2mg of Zanax a day when desperate , & lately I've been DESPERATE quite often . Although I haven't taken any for two days now. I will research Hydroxizine & see if I can replace the Zanax .

My main problem ATM is , whenever I get a little excited , as an example talking to my little grandson on FaceTime / skype .
My brain seems to confuse that it's a good excitement & I feel dreadful ie panicky , anxious with a bit of fear thrown in . I can actually feel the chemicals rushing through my body . It's very hard to handle & my first instinct is to take a Zanax to calm myself down , but I've been resisting the urge & riding it out .
It's so hard to not give in & go back on some type of antidepressant ...
I know I NEED find a new doctor / therapist but I'm frightened that I will get a bad one who might convince me to take something else.

[Wagtail]

Just googling the s/e of Wellbutrin , Cipramil & Prestiq ... Trying to find out if there is any ANTIDEPRESSANT that I would feel safe if I can't stand these s/e's any longer ...OMG it scares the crap out of me , talk about raising my anxiety levels ... I think ai am getting more & more confused ...:-(

Just googling the s/e of Wellbutrin , Cipramil & Prestiq ... Trying to find out if there is any ANTIDEPRESSANT that I would feel safe if I can't stand these s/e's any longer ...OMG it scares the crap out of me , talk about raising my anxiety levels ... I think ai am getting more & more confused ...:-(

Fishinghat ... I think I have just experienced withdrawal symptoms for not taking Zanax for two days !.
I was feeling very anxious & emotional with tingling all over but was trying to put up with it , the thought occurred to me that these horrible feelings could be from not taking Zanax ...
I just took 2 mgs & waiting to see if my symptoms improve ... This is such a nightmare , I don't even take Zanax regularly but have been the past couple of weeks ... Please don't tell me that I will now need to withdraw from Zanax !!!!!!!

[gail]

Hello Wagtail, Fishinghat,

 

I've decided to try Benadryl yesterday, while waiting to see my doctor for a prescription of Hydroxizine.

 

I took 2 at 4pm, all anxiety vanished, I could barely believe it. It was too strong, almost fell asleep, I calmed me down much much more than ativan. Which, by the way, stopped working in the morning.

 

This morning, I will try only one benadryl with my dose of ativan, and see how goes. Since morning are the worst.

 

For ativan, since I take between 1.75 and 2mg, tapering beginning with approx. 1.87 for two weeks then I will see how goes.

For the moment, I will dose it in 3 parts because of the morning madness, where I need more. And when I get hydroxyzine, will do 4 doses.

 

Seems like a good plan while waiting for the H thing. I hate this, just the same, but I got to try it. Trial and error.

 

Thanks Fh for the tapering plan. Wagtail, I hope you find a way to get through this, I know how anxiety can screw up our days.

 

I will be back with an update concerning the benadryl.

 

Now I'm waiting to see if the anxiety will point it's ugly face.

[fishinghat]

Wagtail, benzo addiction is a weird thing. There is a lot of variability to how fast one become addicted to them. Most of the time benzo withdrawal not only includes a spike in anxiety but also a sharp increase in digestive problems as well.

Don't worry aboout getting a new dr. You are the one in charge of your health. If yoou don't like the  person just fire them and try another one. You are in charge.

 

Gail, sounds like a god plan unti you see the dr.

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail,

Here are a couple of ways to find a good therapist in Australia.... Pick up your phone and call them! You can do this! :-)

-----
Australian psychological society
Anxiety Tip Sheet
https://www.psycholo...ets/anxiety/#s9

Seeking professional assistance

To talk to an APS psychologist . . . phone the APS Find a Psychologist Service on 1800 333 497. Alternatively, you can locate a psychologist in your area by visiting the APS Find a Psychologist Service website - www.findapsychologist.org.au.

-----
Good Therapy Australia

Good Therapy Australia is a registered health education charity, dedicated to making good therapy more accessible, enabling Australians to find support for awakening awareness, creativity and responsibility.

Choosing a therapist
http://www.goodthera...therapist/101/1

Searchable directory of therapists: http://www.goodthera...a_therapist.php
-------

[Wagtail]

Good morning fishinghat, Fivenotions & Gail , it's 5.30am down under & I have decided that Today is the day I get help . Fivenotions thank you for the links , as you all know it's hard to think straight when you're feeling this bad.

I'm heading towards the 6 month mark of withdrawal & discontinuation & feeling confused .
I realize now that my approach I've been using to stay sane through this process , by using a benzo just when I thought I needed it , has caused me more hurt .
Some weeks I would take it every now & then & other times I needed it daily .
Well it may have come back to bite me on the bum.
It only occurred to me yesterday that the bad feelings I was experiencing could have been from not taking anything for 48 hrs. Within an hour of taking 2 mgs I had settled enough to go to bed.
My two thoughts are :
1. That I was having a particularly bad anxiety episode & the benzo calmed me down OR
2. That I was experiencing benzo withdrawal .
No 2 scares me to death because the benzo is my life support & has been for many years. It would sit happily in my cupboard for emergencies only & might not be used for months. Just knowing it was there made me feel safe.
If now I have become reliant on them , then I no longer have my crutch !!!!

6 mnths, might this be the danger time that the CRAPALTA is trying to trick me to reinstate ?.
It's time for me to seek GOOD help , I just pray that my choice is the right one & that God steers me towards the right medical practitioner
Thanks for your advice everyone , you all know how the support from others keeps us going .
Xxx.

[gail]

Wagtail, glad you are seeking for md.

 

I may be wrong, but to have benzo withdrawal, would'nt you have to take regularly? here and then, I would not think it is withdrawal.

That is my opinion.

 

Now, for the update, had a few hours this morning feeling better, and then, I felt like s*** all day. But, I think it was meant to be a day like that, regardless of benadryl.

 

It's a no way out and no way in day, meaning that whatever I do, I feel like shit. There, I said the word, and that feels good.

Can someone please tell me how to spell the word, feel or feal, I never know how to spell it.

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, wonderful!

Don't worry about the benzo stuff now... that can get sorted out after you've connected with a therapist....

First step.....let yourself focus just on making a couple of phone calls and getting an appointment with a therapist... I suggest you call Good Therapy Australia and ask for a couple of referrals...be honest with them about how concerned you are that you get someone who understands anxiety, etc.... It sounds like a solid organization...and I think they'll point you in the right direction....

Second step...call a therapist and make an appointment ....for as soon as the person can get you in....be frank, tell them you feel you may be in crisis, or lingo to that effect....gets their attention! ;-)

Step three....go to the appointment....and have a friend or family member drive you or accompany you....including sitting in with you if that makes you feel more secure.....

And let us know how it goes, each step of the way!

[FiveNotions]

PS wagtail....don't forget to tell both Good Therapy and the actual therapist that you also have Lyme disease....this is an important part of what's going on with you.....

[Wagtail]

Fivenotions , thank you , thank you , " don't worry about the benzo stuff !".
You put it into perspective for me , I was letting my thoughts get the better of me & making myself worse.
You're an angel for doing the research for me , I feel so overwhelmed & I can't seem to retain or understand anything I read .
Ok , I can do this & will start my phoning today .xxx

One thing I am interested in is a " natural " product called Neurocalm , a product from Metragenics in Australia & from Symmetry in America . It claims to have minimal s/e's & treats anxiety .

Gail it's FEEL !... Hang in there until the Benadryl has time to work properly for you ..... I must see if it's available in Australia .
Thanks for replying to my call for help as well , it makes a huge difference to have you guys to run things past .
Xxx

[Wagtail]

PS wagtail....don't forget to tell both Good Therapy and the actual therapist that you also have Lyme disease....this is an important part of what's going on with you.....

Fivenotions, I don't have Lymes disease ..thank goodness .
My problems are PTSD , anxiety & depression which were mostly controlled while taking Cymbalta ... I am praying that my anxiety & depression that I have now , are just from withdrawing from CRAPALTA.

[FiveNotions]

Oh geez, wagtail....I apologize! All along I've been thinking that you have lymes....someone here does....?

I hope that a good therapist will help you work on the underlying issues that caused the PTSD, etc....that's what my therapist did....it made all the difference in the world....she helped me to do the work I needed to do to heal the wounds, rather than just put bandaids on them and limping along the way I had been....

[gail]

Now Wagtail, you got me thinking about that benzo withdrawall. FN is right, forget about this for the moment, when the time is right, you will deal with it.

 

You got me thinking about my own schedule of taking the ativanm I am wondering myself if this is not what is happening to me.

 

Fishinghat, if you are out there, tell me what you think about this one year old schedule.

 

6 am 1mg

noon .50

7pm  .50

 

Seems to me that between the 7pm and the 6am, there is an 11 hours without the ativan.

 

And since morning is creating havoc for a few hours, could it be that I am in withdrawal every morning?

New plan for tonite, clonazepam every 8 hours, since it stays longer in the system.

Divided in three equal doses. I must be a pest, sorry, but so fed up. Thanks again.

[fishinghat]

Absolutely Gail. Especially if you have been that way for a year. With any benzo, ANY BENZO, have an evenly distributed dosage. During the first few months not so important but the further you go past 4 months the more likely the uneven doses will bite you. If you look on the med sheets that come with benzos most manufactures say that benzos are for short term use only, 4 months or less. Usually this is the point where most start developing tolerance and dependence. It is important to get that medicine on a set and even schedule especially before any withdrawal.

 

By the way, you and Wagtail mention having periods each day where you feel bad. I can tell you that Ativan withdrawal, even slight withdrawal, is famous for one thing. Foul flatulence. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

[gail]

Angel-Fishinghat,

 

Got it, understood. No foul flatulence though. I'm trying the different route as of tonite, with clonazepan. 

 

Yup, been doing this schedule for a year, and at times waited at the last moment to take it, meaning that I waited to feel (thanks Wagtail) for the anxiety to come to take it.

 

I am learning so much here, thanks. Did I mention that I like, I like and I like you like crazy?

[Wagtail]

Fishinghat , foul flatulence ! Ha ha this is one s/e I DONT HAVE .. Thank goodness , so maybe that means I don't have withdrawal from benzo?.

My benzo ( Zanax Alprazolam ) comes in tri-score form , one long tablet that can be broken into 4 x 2 mg pieces.

If I took 0.50 mg as Gail does with Ativan , I don't think the dose would be strong enough .. Excuse my ignorance but does that mean that 2mg of Ativan is stronger than 2 mgs of Alprazolam ?...

Fivenotions , you encouraged me & I picked up the phone & made an appointment to see the GP, 4.30 pm tomorrow.
I need his advice on whether to go with a natural therapist or a traditional therapist ( psychologist ) , I am divided on choices.
I really can't afford to go with a naturopath because I can't get a rebate but with a referred psychologist I can claim gap refund .
As this is likely to be a long relationship I need to choose something affordable .

It's sad that our government don't encourage people to try natural methods of health ..

Anyhow everyone , baby steps & I start tomorrow @ 4.30 pm .. Just need to get through until then .xx

[Wagtail]

Angel-Fishinghat,
 
Got it, understood. No foul flatulence though. I'm trying the different route as of tonite, with clonazepan. 
 
Yup, been doing this schedule for a year, and at times waited at the last moment to take it, meaning that I waited to feel (thanks Wagtail) for the anxiety to come to take it.
 
I am learning so much here, thanks. Did I mention that I like, I like and I like you like crazy?

Me too Gail, I love the people on here & without you all , I couldn't do this ...

[fishinghat]

Thank you so much ladies. I always feel like I am with close friends when I am here.

[FiveNotions]

Oh wow, wagtail, that is just awesome news! Bravo bravo bravo!!!

I hadn't factored in your GP when I made those suggestions....I guess because you haven't been too thrilled with his knowledge/understanding of antidepressants etc....but you're right in deciding to call him and get his advice....he may not be the best, but he's what you've got right now, so you're idea to consult with him and then take the next step is the best way to go...

Let us know what you find out!

And, as for the benzo dosing times...Ativan and all I've been on....gads, yes, keep the times evenly spaced...I put myself not withdrawal numerous times until I got the schedule worked out....the shorter the half life on the little buggers the more exactly you have to time it....

[Wagtail]

Fivenotions, fishinghat....
I only take 2mgs a day ( zyprexa ) & I take it before bed usually around 8.30pm. It doesn't come in a smaller dose & to tell you the truth , I don't think a smaller dose would work for me .
Do you think that by using this method I am having withdrawals everyday ?.

[gail]

Hello Wagtail, from what I have read, Zyprexa is not a benzo.

 

You may check that out, I think the dosage is once at  10mg daily.

You cannot compare this with ativan or any benzo, maybe adjusting the dose is just what you would need.

 

Talk to your dr about that.

[Wagtail]

Hi Gail, I checked my Zanax bottle & realized that I'm only taking 0.5 mg not 2 mgs & very happy about that fact.

It's recommended to only take it once a day & usually @ night .
Unfortunately it only has a short half life & wears off quickly , I'm going to talk to my GP today & ask for something with a longer half life.
Years ago I took Valium for a short time & didn't have any problem with it , hopefully I can switch to that .
I always wake up anxious & it returns again by late afternoon , hopefully I can work out what my triggers are & deal with it that way .
Hope you're staying strong & beating that damn anxious feeling with a baseball bat. Lol

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail......your post, above says 5:25 pm.....but I don't know if that's Australia time or my DC time....did you see your today already? If so, how'd it go?

[fishinghat]

That 5:25 reflects your time FN because mine says 4:25 and I am 1 hour before you (central time).

[xman]

Wagtail I really hope you feel better.

 

I absolutely have less drenching hot flashes, for lack of better word. It is my hope that even if it is ever so slow, my brain function and its serotonin production will improve.

[Wagtail]

Hello everyone, I just had to update my positive day .
Today has been amazballs , I have felt good all day & I can even remember how it feels to feel normal ... Still some s/e's but manageable .

I'm not going to get too carried away because I know it can still go pear shaped @ any moment but I'm so happy tonight & I will grab that POSITIVE feeling with both hands .

I accomplished so much today , more than I have in 5 months.
I even managed to go to the shopping centre & have a pedicure ..yipeeeeee I have pretty coral toenails .
I cleaned out my wardrobe & took 3 big bags of clothing to the charity store.

Even if I relapse tomorrow I will remember how it feels to feel good & will WAX & WANE ... Ha ha

[thismoment]

Wagtail

 

Congratulations! This is a great day! 

 

Live it, repeat it, and it's yours forever (careful- this applies to good and bad). When a low spot in the road comes along, the quickest way through it is to acknowledge it, accept its presence, and keep going.

[gail]

Hey Wagtail, so happy for you.

 

Hope you have a few of them in a row, it sure brings back hope.

 

Been doing good myself since yesterday noon. Like nothing has ever happened, makes us forget till the wax and wane crosses our path.