58 replies to this topic

[gail]

End of crapalta on february 21rst.

 

February 21rst to march 21 rst, I had not one entire day of fealing good, all in all, about 48 hours here and there.

 

March 21rst to april 21rst, I had 9 good days, and counting the hours and half days, 36 hours random.

 

When I say good days, I mean comfortable enough. I would not call them normal days, as before crapalta.

 

I am writing this, because I feel that, after a few terrible days, I was not making any progress.

I feel that I have been battling this for so long. It's good to see, that yes, there is slow progress and again not linear.

 

And I remember FH that said that around the 8th to 12th  week, you see signs of good days followed by bad days.

 

Got to hold on to that, thanks Fishinghat.

[phillyguy1]

Hi Gail - Our timelines are similar on being off in that 8-10 week window. I pretty much went off cold turkey. I've experienced similar with good and bad days. My biggest issue has been acute vertigo and tinnitus in my right ear. Some days it's been better than others for sure. Another side effect was migraines which has lessened for sure over the past few weeks. My BP was in hypertension 140's o 90's for a few weeks and that has been thankfully lowering too. I'm now steadily in the low 130's o mid 80's. The biggest frustration for me is the inconsistency of this withdrawal. I can go a few days feeling semi-normal and then outta nowhere strange sensations/feelings hit me and it's a step backwards for a few days. It's literally a roller coaster ride. I have to say though, the descent of the roller coaster isn't as bad as it used to be. Hang in there. More good days than bad are coming  

[thismoment]

Hi Gail and phillyguy1

 

Good work Gail. You're into the wave-action of good and bad days. Yes fishinghat said it right for me too- it got much better following the first 3 months (12 weeks). After that improvements come faster, and the low points of the waves aren't so low.

 

Phillyguy1- after 21 months I still have the tinnitus in my right ear, a chronic tension-type headache, and very subtle (just a percent or two) of vestibular instability. Thank you Eli Lilly!

[gail]

Yes Phillyguy, that's the way it goes here also. A few days semi-normal, a few in the dumps and so on and so on.

 

It's a wonder that I have not lost my mind yet, but at times, I wonder if my mind is going to slow down enough to catch my breath.

I find it scary those days, like today and the last ones.

 

Imagine, yesterday evening, for 3 hours, I felt perfectly normal. I thought it was a miracle only to wake up in the night and feel a bit panicky.  Roller coaster. I hate this. I hate this and I hate this. I dont feel optimistic today, not a the moment, sorry.

 

Waiting for better days, 9 weeks tomorrow. I think that we have the same or about the same quitting time.

[gail]

Thismoment, thank you for your encouragement, 3 or 4 weeks to go. Hard one today. Questionning and questionning myself about if I will make it sanely.

[equuswoman]

One day at a time. Prayers continue for you from TheEquusWoman♥

[xman]

Wax and wane.

[sodone61]

No more paresthesia and headaches and the tinnitus (both ears, bad) is gone.  Remaining is spontaneous crying, fatigue, lack of drive..anxiety but nothing like before.  The hard part was thinking I was on the upswing and expecting more than I was ready to give.  Live and learn.   Be well.. Pam

[gail]

Wax and wane.

Xman, what does wax and wane mean? french speaking here, some expressions I dont understand.

 

And how are you feeling Xman? like phillyguy and I ,I think that you are at about the same number of weeks as us. 9 tomorrow.

 

I allready feel better than a few hours back, never know what to expect on this journey.

 

And Pam, seems things are getting better for you, good for you.

 

Equuswoman,you had surgery yesterday, how are you feeling?

[thismoment]

Gail

The moon waxes (gets bigger) and wanes (gets smaller).

C'est une reference lunaire- la lune croit et decroit.

[phillyguy1]

Hi Gail and phillyguy1

 

Good work Gail. You're into the wave-action of good and bad days. Yes fishinghat said it right for me too- it got much better following the first 3 months (12 weeks). After that improvements come faster, and the low points of the waves aren't so low.

 

Phillyguy1- after 21 months I still have the tinnitus in my right ear, a chronic tension-type headache, and very subtle (just a percent or two) of vestibular instability. Thank you Eli Lilly!

 

Hi thismoment - The bad part for me with this tinnitus/vertigo issue is it's stirred up an old chronic problem. I was diagnosed with Meniere's syndrome about 10 years ago. Basically it's something which builds fluid in the ear and gradually kills the hearing. A lot of older people tend to get it. I believe Prevacid was the culprit from that but never proven. It's in one of their many side effect warnings.

 

So, I "hope" this tinnitus subsides on it's own somehow...but who knows. I am pretty sure this ear business is related to the vertigo though. Retention of fluid could also be related to my blood pressure being elevated. I just hope I don't have to go on some type of "water" pill or another med to help me along. It will be hear we go again lol. I'll be on another forum for liver or kidney issues next from the water pill. Sorry to be so cynical.

[phillyguy1]

sodone61...thank you for sharing the tinitus update. It def gives me hope of it eventually dissipating Also glad you are moving forward.

[FiveNotions]

Tinnitus...I hadn't thought about it in weeks....which meant I haven't had much of it (cymbalta gave it to me big time)....then, just this afternoon, kaboom....it's back, and with a vengeance....sounds like I've got a toilet flushing, sink running, and crickets chirping simultaneously inside my head....when I had it all the time I learned to ignore it....then, when it went away, I was astonished at being able to hear clocks tick and birds sing....now it's driving me nuts because Ive forgotten how to ignore it....it's gonna keep me awake tonight for sure....

[gail]

Gail

The moon waxes (gets bigger) and wanes (gets smaller).

C'est une reference lunaire- la lune croit et decroit.

Merci Thismoment. Surprised to see that your french is pretty good.

[gail]

Tinnitus, have had that for 12 years. At times, I dont hear it, though I know it is there.

 

The weirdest part is that when someone begins to talk about it, I hear it big time.

 

My best friend has it, I told him once not to talk about it because by just mentionning it , my mind would be back focussing on it. We both have loss of hearing because of this and maybe the age thing.

 

Wax and wane, love the expression. Now, time to change the subject for myself.

[thismoment]

Hi Gail

 

Is your tinnitus in both ears or just one; mine is in my right ear. The tone is approximately 13000 HZ.

 

And you're right, when I don't think about it I enjoy the illusion that it's gone away!

[gail]

Thismoment, it's in the right ear. When it began, after a cold, I thought that I would lose my marbles, took many months to get used to it.

 

When I am tired, it is worse. Have to put ear plugs when i blow dry hair and when the fan of the oven is working, if I dont, i get it worse and worse for the day.

 

I had an ear test last year, and there are 3 levels that did not hear. I can live with that.

 

Cant stand any loud music, radio, tv, of course I dont go to cinemas. I can live with that.

 

What I can barely live with is the f****anxiety,. The last four days, I had to upper ativan, I know it coincides with cycling the progesterone. I am getting off subject, sorry.

[xman]

Waxing and waning. Thank you ThisMoment, for the explanation to our gail.

 

I was on another topic discussing the tinnitus issue. Mine is much better, although I still have it in my right ear intermittently. I am intrigued that there is a pattern forming regarding the right ear tinnitus...I have hope yours will improve.

 

Gail, yes I am on the same time line as you and phillyguy. As mentioned, the tinnitus is improved. I have lost 10 lbs. without dieting. My stomach problems are improved. However still get nauseated and have headache (HA) at times. The HA situation is measurably better, for which I am grateful. Sleep is a problem. Motivation and staying active is difficult. No more brain zaps.

 

Progress on most, waxing and waning on the others. I am prepared for a long road to recover the serotonin in my brain and to repair the damage to my body. I am convinced we CAN do it.

[xman]

PS  I neglected to mention the emotions (a Freudian slip?). I am still pretty emotional but am better able to control the tears when in the company of others.

[fishinghat]

Thismoment, it's in the right ear. When it began, after a cold, I thought that I would lose my marbles, took many months to get used to it.

 

When I am tired, it is worse. Have to put ear plugs when i blow dry hair and when the fan of the oven is working, if I dont, i get it worse and worse for the day.

 

I had an ear test last year, and there are 3 levels that did not hear. I can live with that.

 

Cant stand any loud music, radio, tv, of course I dont go to cinemas. I can live with that.

 

What I can barely live with is the f****anxiety,. The last four days, I had to upper ativan, I know it coincides with cycling the progesterone. I am getting off subject, sorry.

 

Hey Gail, how long you been oon the Ativan?

[gail]

FH I see you are back from your fishing trip.... missed you.

 

About 18 months give or take. Please do not scare me with this , I scare easily. Taken when I can no longer bare the anxiety.

 

1.75 to 2mg daily. Up to 2.75 when emergency, like those past few days. To tell you the truth, if I were not so scared of these darn pills, I would at times eat it like candy. At the time present, this is related to the female menstrual cycle, and at these times, anxiety gets out of control.

 

I used to have a few glasses of wine to calm down, at supper time. Quit that, as it made me more depressed.

So the discontinuation syndrome, the weaning of wine combined with this female time of the month. I would say that it is not a party time for me.

 

It will get better and better, first message I got when I woke up this morning  from my gardian angel, (the little voice in my head)

[fishinghat]

Gail, still struggling. I wish it were better. The manufacturers say it takes 4 to 6 months to build up tolerance to Ativan but I would put it this way... You start becoming tolerant around the 4th or 5 mth and by the 12 mth it simply doesn't work for you any more. That is why the original anxiety symptoms start to reappear. What they usually do is exchange it for oxazepam (another benzo) which will last a year or so and then they will put you on clonazepam or back on loraxepam. Musical chairs with medicine. And unluckily the menstral cycle just further makes it worse.

 

God bless and hang in there.

[gail]

Fh, I was switched to clonazepam one month ago, hesitated to take it. Geez, what can i say, I am afraid of my own shadow. I continued with the ativan.

 

If I hear you right, it would be better for me to do the switch? By the way, the original state of anxiety I was in was far better than what it is now.

 

Is there not another way to treat anxiety? besides musical chairs? Since the ativan has stopped working, as you mentionned, do you mean that I am taking like a placebo? I feal it calms me a bit, not as like in the beginning though.

 

On the good side, I have started a 12 step program yesterday, FN had suggested it, and starting therapy within a few week with a lady. I think it will do me wonders, thanks Fishinghat.

[FiveNotions]

Gail, your 12 step and therapy news is wonderful! It did me a world of good to have those meetings to go to...to be surrounded, physically, with others who were in the recovery process and who knew exactly where I was coming from and what I was dealing with...oh, my...what a gift....and likewise, one on one therapy...an advocate for my own needs and healing...it will be the same for you I believe......and yes...it does, will, get better for you....

Yay Gail!!! Embarking on this stage of recovery takes great courage.....you've taken that step, so in many ways you've done the hardest of the work!

[gail]

FiveNotions, as you say, yes it did take a lot to take those first steps on thursday.

 

When I got back home, I saw clearly that I had been living in my own prison for a long time. In isolation.

Thank you for your advice, I know that those meetings will help me.

I brought back litterature, I enjoy reading and I feel less alone.

 

As for therapy, had my first evaluation yesterday morning, a 2 or 3 week wait. Of course, I ask for a woman.

 

Those 2 outings did ask a lot, but I am so happy to have made the move. Also very happy to have put the wine aside.

 

As you say, on the road to recovery. It was quite a week.

 

Thank you FiveNotions for your kind words, they mean a lot.

[fishinghat]

Gail, when I got ready to get off my atival I insisted on replacing it with hydroxyzine. This is not a benzo, not addictive and no withdrawal. He said that thte standard way is to always replace a benzo with a benzo. I told him I was a none standard person so we will go a different route. lol I have been on the hydroxyzine for a month now while tapering down the ativan. It has done a wonderful job. Other good treatments that can be used instead of benzos is clonidine and/or atenolol. Both work well AND they conrol the heartpounding and skip beats (atenolol is best at that).They are both used to control blood pressure by holding a steady BP. If ever stopped there is about a two or three week 'rebound' where the BP spikes and then returns to normal. A lot better than cymbalta. lol.

[gail]

Fishinghat, have you been reducing the ativan because they had stopped working on you? or any other reason?

 

Any side effects on the hydroxyzine? antihistaminic I think you said it was.

 

I will be back with another question, depending on your first answer. On the reduction rate.

 

Are doctors aware that this hydro....is working well for anxiety?

 

Thanks FH

[fishinghat]

Yea Gail, I am stopping it just because it stopped working for me.  The hydroxyzine has dry mouth, lowers BP slightly and drowsiness (BP and drowsiness usually goes away with time) as a side effect and an outside chance of dystonia (sp). All of the pdocs I have met were aware of it but are in love with benzos and ssris. Another group like that is the nri. Some work well for anxiety and others for depression and have typically slightly less side effects and withdrawal than the ssri and snri. Most of the nri aren't even available at pharmacies but are on the internet and as of yet I have never met a psychiatrist that has ever prescribed one. Did I mention that they are in love with benzos and ssri/snri?  lol

 

By the way hydroxyzine has the same anti-anxiety rating as ativan!! Very effective. It begins to take effect in 15 to 30 minutes. Dosages are 50 to 100 mg 4 times per day. Half life is around 7 to 10 hours. No withdrawal.

[gail]

Ah, that is good news. Am seeing my doctor in the next week. She is in love with ssris, any kind of antidepressants, but, by luck, she hates benzos.

 

Now, at 2mg ativan, and let's say she has me on hydrox..50, at what rate can I drop the ativan?

 

Since I dont have anxiety all day, but morning is excruciating, can you lower the 4 times to 3 or 2 per day? take it as needed?

 

So many questions, when I get this prescription, I will rely on you FH for directions.

 

Know that your expertise on this matter is of great value for me.

[fishinghat]

I thank you for the kind words Gail. I am humbled.

 

The best way to cut the Ativan is to drop it 3% for 14 days, nest 4% for 14 days, and increase the drop by 1% every 14 days until you start getting withdrawal effects. Back off 1% and stay there until done unless you start having problems. In that case drop back 1%. There are times I have been able to drop 12% every 14 days and other times I can only drop 3% every 14 days.

 

As far as dosage I would recommend maybe 100 mg 1st thing in the morning and then 50 mg the other 3 times a day. My dr suggested that he write a prescription for 100 mg 4/day using 50 mg capsules. He said to start with 50 mg/day and just slowly increase the dosage til I am satisfied with the results. This allows me to minimize my usage. Remember. this product is used to treat withdrawal. So the more you are taking the faster you can cut back on the Ativan. Even so I would suggest a minimum. Just enough to make you feel better.