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Let's Talk About Suicide


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#1 thismoment

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:08 PM

The first six reasons come from a book.

 

The Six Reasons People Attempt Suicide from Happiness in this World by Alex Lickerman M.D.

 

1. They're depressed. This is the most common reason. The person says, "Everyone would be better off without me."

 

2. They're psychotic. They hear malevolent voices from within.

 

3. They're impulsive. Often drug and alcohol abuse lead to a snap decision.

 

4. They're crying out for help. The person is waving a flag, an alert to their anguish.

 

5. They have a philosophical reason to die. It's based on a "reasoned" decision- an attempt to take control of destiny.

 

6. Games gone too far. Often starts out as a fun game- risky, often sex-based. Asphyxiation is one type.

 

………………………………………………………………………………….

 

That all sounds pretty reasonable, and clearly it's been well-researched. However, permit me to add Reason Number 7, and Reason  Number 8.

 

Reason Number 7.

Another reason people arrive as Suicide's Door is due to Antidepressant Zombieosis (I made that term up) where the patient on an antidepressant is left with all emotions stripped away, flat-lined, zombie-like. The patient becomes a vacant shell, a hollow man, form without content aimlessly shuffling off to nowhere. The thought of suicide arrives not on the frothy wave of emotion, but rather on the bleak granite slab of nothingness.

 

Reason Number 8.

Another journey that transports us to Suicide's Door is Withdrawal or Discontinuation from Antidepressants. It's important to note that it isn't necessarily depression and anxiety that gets us started on antidepressants- many patients are prescribed drugs like Cymbalta for pain, and these folks often end up standing incredulous at that door too! 

 

We are misled by the propaganda that tells us withdrawal only takes two weeks- no problem. This misinformation is handed out to physicians on a pamphlet with a 100-dollar bill taped to the backside. The physician is happy (and even happier when solicited to present a seminar or write up a "study" for more cash). Likewise the media is compelled to bury the truth about antidepressant withdrawal as long as BigPharma is one of their sponsors: Dr. Phil is sponsored by Pfizer, so you won't hear anything negative about SSRIs on his show.

 

We are blindsided by hidden information. Perhaps it shouldn't be surprising that physicians often mumble as we're leaving the office, "You could be on these for the rest of your life . . .". The doctor often senses there's an anomaly present, but it's elusive.

 

We begin our withdrawal in earnest, enthusiastically! (Two weeks- I can handle that!) But soon we feel like something's wrong: "I should be over this by now! These symptoms must mean I've contracted some disease!" 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 2 months, 3 months, 4 months- Nausea, vertigo, muscle pain, joint pain, headaches, tinnitus, sex life ended, cognitive impairment, loss of sense of smell, anxiety and panic, more depression, memory gaps and so on. It's deep deep water!

 

It takes months, not weeks; you have to be patient.

 

Understandably, the patient often ends up on another antidepressant because the physician is convinced this is a NEW condition altogether- especially if the drug had been prescribed for pain: The physician now sees depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue, sleep disorders, or fibromyalgia! Remember, there's nothing in the literature about this- in fact we are the pioneers, we are writing the history. It's really not surprising the patient finds himself or herself standing at Suicide's Door. 

 

And it's during withdrawal and discontinuation that we encounter profound rage: mass murders have occurred during discontinuation from antidepressants, and the suicide often follows.

 

This is what it feels like to be set-up, to be deceived.

 

But now you know, so don't do nuthin' dumb!


#2 gail

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:13 PM

Thank you Thismoment! to be reminded again and again that it takes time, months and not weeks. I am at 12 weeks .

 

Without being suicidal, there are days that I wonder where will this will lead me. And days that I know I will make it!

 

Once more, thanks for being there to remind us.


#3 FiveNotions

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:41 PM

Brilliant, ThisMoment!

I really really needed to be reminded of this right now!

#4 Xanazul

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    Fnding cues for what I am feeling. Hopefuly giving others cues about this distressful state of mind and body we are all going through.

Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:59 AM

TM:
"We begin our withdrawal in earnest, enthusiastically! (Two weeks- I can handle that!) But soon we feel like something's wrong: "I should be over this by now! These symptoms must mean I've contracted some disease!" 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 2 months, 3 months- Nausea, vertigo, muscle pain, joint pain, headaches, tinnitus, sex life ended, cognitive impairment, loss of sense of smell, anxiety and panic, more depression, memory gaps and so on. It's deep deep water!
It takes months, not weeks; you have to be patient."

We should repost this at least once a week. I do believe it will be very helpful for everyone.

#5 gail

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

Right there with you Xanazul on this one! At least a once a week reminder, especially for us who are in the midst of tough times!

 

Like now!


#6 FiveNotions

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

I agree, xanazul! (I've run out of "likes" early today!)

#7 Wagtail

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:19 AM

Brilliant, ThisMoment!
I really really needed to be reminded of this right now!


Oh how I needed to read this today ThisMoment
...
Last week I climbed to the top of the slippery dip & stood & admired the view from the top ...took in all the visual beauty , & breathed in the perfume of happiness that is life ...
Today I have slipped down the slippery dip , as you do , because that is why they are called slippery dips !...

With all my bravado of last week , I did know that this was the repercussion from climbing so high & daring to be excited & happy & daring to feel normal again .

This will pass & I will once again, climb up that ( imaginary ladder ) & once again I will enjoy the view from the top !.. Each time I slip down that slippery dip , my time spent @ the bottom will get shorter & shorter & my time @ the top will last longer & longer ...

#8 thismoment

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:11 AM

Wagtail

"With all my bravado of last week , I did know that this was the repercussion from climbing so high & daring to be excited & happy & daring to feel normal again ."

Dear Wagtail, there's no correlation between daring to be excited & happy, and having a down day. It's just a small wave- nothing you could surf, and nothing to worry about. Same with 'in like a lamb and out like a lion'- it's not science.

"This will pass . . . my time spent @ the bottom will get shorter & shorter & my time @ the top will last longer & longer ..."

Yes. There you go!

#9 GonnaMakeIt

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:42 AM

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO to all of the above.  Not only did I need this today but it also REALLY HELPED!  Thanks so much, once again to all of you wonderful people!

 

Definitely agree that re-posting this weekly is a GREAT idea!


#10 FiveNotions

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:56 AM

Wagtail, I'm with TM on this...the low point is temporary.....just as was that wonderful high point....maybe it's the huge contrast between the highs and the lows that makes us feel awful....like that point on a roller coaster when you've made the trip to the highest point, and then you go over the crest and zoom down to the ground.....that stomach dropping horrid....that I've always hated...and some folks love....

I'm finding that my highs seem a bit less high, and my lows see, a bit less low.....there's less distance between them....a bit more time spent "on the level"... A more manageable level.....higher than the lowest low, but lower than the highest high...?

Man, words and descriptions elude me today.... ;-)

#11 Wagtail

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:13 PM

Once again, thank you everyone ... As usual , when the low days hit they really HIT !.

One amazing day followed by three shockers .. It's so hard to keep telling ones self & to accept that this is all part & parcel of the discontinuation. I find that I desperately need to log on here & get your support & confirmation that this is indeed how it is ..

I had a dreadful night last night , ( it's now 7.00am ) I've been up since 5.30 am ... I woke many times during the night suffering nausea & full body hot flashes !!!! ... I felt like someone was injecting me with a chemical & I could feel it shooting through my body .. It's an Awful feeling & hard not to feel anxious & despondent ...

It's my birthday today & our 47th wedding anniversary , I was hoping that it would be one of my GOOD DAYS ...
Unfortunately I think I am going to need to take my 0.5 mgs of Zanax to allow myself to enjoy the day as much as possible.
Knowing I'm not alone & that I'm NOT suffering from a new episode of depression / anxiety disorder ... WILL GIVE ME THE STRENGH I NEED TO GET THROUGH .... This very special day ..
Thanks guys..xxx

#12 Jones

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:49 PM

Know this,
There is a weird person on the other side of the world pulling and praying for you.
:)

#13 FiveNotions

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:16 PM

Oh wagtail, happy anniversary! 47 years....just wonderful!

Just try to stay on an even keel....balance....keep yourself aware enough to not hit quite the high you hit last week....this will prevent a hard fall the day after....enjoy the joy....do so slowly and gently.....no roller coasters.....just like your long and blessed marriage has endured through the ups and the downs, you too.....as a person in your own life ...has and will endure through the ups and downs......

Again, happy anniversary....much joy and blessings for you and your husband!

And I, too, a semi-crazy lady on the other side of the world, am pulling and praying for you!

#14 GonnaMakeIt

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:35 PM

Once again, thank you everyone ... As usual , when the low days hit they really HIT !.

One amazing day followed by three shockers .. It's so hard to keep telling ones self & to accept that this is all part & parcel of the discontinuation. I find that I desperately need to log on here & get your support & confirmation that this is indeed how it is ..

I had a dreadful night last night , ( it's now 7.00am ) I've been up since 5.30 am ... I woke many times during the night suffering nausea & full body hot flashes !!!! ... I felt like someone was injecting me with a chemical & I could feel it shooting through my body .. It's an Awful feeling & hard not to feel anxious & despondent ...

It's my birthday today & our 47th wedding anniversary , I was hoping that it would be one of my GOOD DAYS ...
Unfortunately I think I am going to need to take my 0.5 mgs of Zanax to allow myself to enjoy the day as much as possible.
Knowing I'm not alone & that I'm NOT suffering from a new episode of depression / anxiety disorder ... WILL GIVE ME THE STRENGH I NEED TO GET THROUGH .... This very special day ..
Thanks guys..xxx

HAPPY BIRTHDAY & ANNIVERSARY!  Some days do start off bad and end up good so praying that your day/night ends up GREAT!


#15 TryinginFL

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:51 PM

Wagtail... Happy Birthday and Happy Anniversary! What a wonderful combination and I wish you a wonderful and "good day"! Please take whatever you need to for a stress-free day...

I will be thinking good thoughts for you 'down under'....

Enjoy your wonderful day!!

Hugs,Liz

#16 FiveNotions

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:33 PM

Oh wow, wagtail....I totally spaced the part about it being your birthday! Happy birthday!!! The 47 years of marriage got all my attention!

Truly joyous!

#17 thismoment

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:48 PM

Wagtail

Happy Birthday! Happy Anniversary! Wow!

#18 AnotherMind

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:35 AM

We begin our withdrawal in earnest, enthusiastically! (Two weeks- I can handle that!) But soon we feel like something's wrong: "I should be over this by now! These symptoms must mean I've contracted some disease!" 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 2 months, 3 months, 4 months- Nausea, vertigo, muscle pain, joint pain, headaches, tinnitus, sex life ended, cognitive impairment, loss of sense of smell, anxiety and panic, more depression, memory gaps and so on. It's deep deep water!

 

On one hand Im glad that I found this topic because I have spent the day coldly and desperately planning how to take my own life.

 

This topic is speaking to the rational part of me that's saying " its' only week 4" - but there is an insidious scream building in my head &I dont know what is withdrawal and what is just 'me' anymore - depression has been a spectre my whole life, Cymbalta gave respite for a while - but maybe this is it?

 

If it is - Im not sure I can do this.


#19 fishinghat

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:59 AM

AM

 

That is the withdrawal talking. It really will get better. BUt if you are truely having thoughts of suicide you need to see your shrink as soon as possible and get some help. Being on Cymbalta and going through its withdrawal can both cause suicidal events. Do not screw around with it. Get help please!!


#20 FiveNotions

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

AM, dear one.....hang in there...this truly is passing ...you have already had good days..and have been able to create and share your beautiful works, and self, here with us....you are very close to a turning point...as Fishinghat says...you must get help if these thoughts persists...call your therapist, go to the ER....call the ambulance to take you there...call a suicide hot line...anything....DO NOT harm yourself....

.those thoughts are the evil drug speaking to you...it does not want to lose it's prey....you are breaking free....

You are doing so much better than I did during this process....the first four weeks for me were the absolute hardest.....I was completely bed bound....crawling to the bathroom to puke, living on clear liquids, broth and herb tea...if I had the strength to make it for myself. I had brain zaps, muscle aches and twitches, horrid vertigo....headaches...and anxiety.....I was sweating through the sheets and my bed clothes day and night...and I was too weak to change them so I was filthy...I didn't take a shower or brush my teeth for a month...I had just one friend who knew me and came to check on me and bring me groceries and make me soup......I received the Sacrament of the Sick (we Catholics used to call it Last Rites...for the dying)....I received it not once, but twice, in the same month....

I made it through the 4th week...and then there began to be a bit of light....of an hour or so at most....and slowly but surely the good times stayed longer and the bad times faded....

I had my first nervous breakdown in high school 43 years ago....and would have another one every 6 or 7 years....I suffered horribly with depression and panic...and got no therapy until the 1980s.....and on and on...

it has been this way for many of us here....which is why we ended up on the poison, and ultimately found this safe haven...finally found others who know what we think and feel because they too see the world differently....

We are also different because we are survivors...we cling to life and refuse to let it go....you are a survivor as well!

You are here with us, we love you and care deeply about you....every single on of us here has felt hopeless and helpless many times during the withdrawal....we come here and share our bad time...and then the good times arrive... And you have shared some wonderful times with us already....do NOT give up....cling to those good times, and cling to us....

You are a highly intelligent and sensitive soul....my bet is that you've always felt different, seen the world differently...and suffered deeply because of it....God made you one of the special ones....and gave you the gift of creativity so that you can bring beauty out of the suffering....

You ARE healing....this withdrawal wants to make you quit...it wants you to give in to it and return to the poison....and you are saying no, I will no longer live like that...allow a drug to control me....YOU CAN DO THIS!

Stay right here and keep talking to us....hang on...another good time, better than the last, is on it's way to you!

#21 thismoment

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:11 AM

AM

 

". . .I don't know what is withdrawal and what is just 'me' anymore. . ."

 

AM I need you to put that fine brain of yours into idle for just a minute. Conceptually dividing your being into two components burdens you with the incomprehensible task of re-assembly: there aren't two you's,  there is no "that's withdrawal and this is me". Your mind state is just where you are within the process of changing toward equilibrium, and I assure you it IS coming.

 

The only clues we get are emotional, but the changes to your brain are physical, and this healing takes time; it took 6 weeks for the drug to alter your brain going in, and it takes at least that long for it to self-repair to function without the drug.

 

The point of the Let's Talk About Suicide posting was to assure people that relief is coming: "It takes months, not weeks; you have to be patient. . . But now you know, so don't do nuthin' dumb!"

 

AM I need you to stay strong.


#22 FiveNotions

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

TM is right.....there are not "two yous".....you...your soul...your eternal being....occupies a physical body in this life....it's what your soul uses to move around and experience this world...through the five senses.....

Your brain is the bodily'a central computer....it's your brain that is causing you to feel the withdrawal....the brain is rewiring itself....and because you inhabit your body, and experience the world through your senses, you...your soul....experiences the rewiring process ....you're along for the ride....it's that flowing water metaphor we were playing with yesterday....

Your canoe has hit some rapids, or white water....and this is just a temporary part of the process....

You must stay in your canoe...do not leap out....your canoe knows just what it's doing, and is taking you to safety...rough ride, yes...but a hell of a lot better than not staying in the canoe....you deserve to experience the calm peaceful waters that are waiting for you downstream....you've already had some of that...there's more to come!

#23 Jones

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:20 PM

AM. I feel that two of Me thing too,
Neither of which are in good shape
Glad to read these other posts about that.
My suicudal thoughts hit less and less. I would have to take my husband with me though as he is unable to care for himself.
That is where I stand behind him and know there is no way in hell I could hurt him and he is not cognitively aware enough to have that discussion with me any more.
Now there are times when I know I am in charge.
Then there is that other side.
Hopefully soon the default will be on the more positive side.

These brilliant loving people will be here when you need them.
Do this
Not that

#24 FiveNotions

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:29 PM

Jones, do you have a therapist? You really need to talk to someone about the suicide thoughts....and are you saying that you used to talk about this with your husband? Dear one, no!

I am sorry to hear about your husband. You are a wonderful spouse! That is a huge huge responsibility to care for a disabled husband. And awesome that you have done it while in withdrawal....I hope you have a support network so you can get some time for yourself!

#25 AnotherMind

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:48 PM

Thankyou - speechless.

I lay awake thinking about two friends who took their lives in recent years and the terrible, terrible impact it had on their families.

Every fibre of my being is somewhere beyond sad - it pains me to see my partner so frightened - I will get help.


#26 FiveNotions

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:14 PM

AM, wonderful!

We need you, your partner needs you, your family needs you....this world needs you!

Get help. And stay in close touch with us!

#27 TryinginFL

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:18 PM

AM....we all need you - please get help quickly and keep us posted!!  We want to keep you safe! 


#28 Jones

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:06 AM

Five notions.
No I never speak to him about these feelings. Never will.
Right now, no therapist. $ spent on escalating care for him. He has alzheimers. Watching this happening to him,it is sometimes difficult to breathe. I don't know if it is still cymbalta running me or this situation. My support system is what I am typing on now.
Friends mostly stopped checking I think because I ran them off during my major withdrawals. My son, who has helped me on the past told me he had his own demons and hung up on me.
AM thank you for listening to these good people !
I can't say I don't "coldly calculate" too but we will not act on this right ? I also got way off track. I wanted mostly to tell you I felt that way too. I thought it was courageous of you to say that here and thankful you are thinking it through.
One step, one breath, one second at a time. Each one different.

#29 AnotherMind

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:51 AM

One step, one breath, one second at a time. Each one different.

 

Jones -

thankyou for having the courage to respond in turn with honesty. Your situation sounds so very, very challenging. And it breaks my heart that you (& so many people here)  seem to have diminished support around them -  it's as if we live in a compassion fatigued society and find it hard to look after one another.

 

I feel so grateful that this forum exists - that we who have some shared experience of suffering can reach out across the ether  and share our insights.

 

We will not act on these suicidal ideations because others need us here. Perhaps as one friend suggested to me it is a form of cartharsis to imagine suicide, a catharsis that allows us to wake up & face the next day, and the next...and yes, as you say, "Each one different".

 

You must be an amazingly strong person Jones.


#30 thismoment

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:30 PM

A Mind

 

How are you? I am so happy to see that your compassion is alive and well! I remember being where you were a couple of days ago, and compassion was my link to the road back.





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