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#1 dreamingotters

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:16 AM

Well, honestly, it's already begun - I dropped from 60 to 30 last week, and now my psychiatrist says to take half of a capsule for 3 days and then a quarter of a capsule for 3 days before stopping. 60 to 30 was a nightmare for one day (we're talking almost as bad as when I was hospitalized for pneumonia) and then extraordinarily crappy for the next 2-3 until I got back to myself.

 

Now I'm going to be doing it again, though with different dosages, and I'm kind of freaked out. I just want this done and my psychiatrist was adamant that I should be able to just do this in a week. I trust him (and to be honest, just want this over with). But I've been reading all of the threads here and it's taken people longer than that for sure. I'm not stopping all at once, but I'm also not giving my body lots of time to adjust...

 

*deep breath* I guess what I'm say is...hi, I'm new and jumping straight in...and any reassurance that even if I do this in a week I'll get through it would be appreciated...

 

EDIT: after writing this, I thought about it more...and I think part of the reason I still want to stick with what my psychiatrist says is because I can't stand being on this medicine any longer. There are no freaking words. I need it over with. If it hits me harder, I'll be upset with myself (though hopefully no one here will judge me for not bead counting? :( ), but I'll still be off of it sooner which will bring me some peace of mind at least...sigh, I just...don't want anyone to judge me. Heaven knows I'll need the support as long as it's offered.


#2 FiveNotions

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:41 AM

Your doctor is a jackass...a total idiot...and far worse words I won't even use here!

Following his advise is going to jack you up and down, and drag you through a whole world of hell! He's setting you up for intense cold turkey withdrawal!

Bead counting is the best way to do this...slowly, over an extended period of time....if you think you can't stand being on the poison, you'll feel even more so about what it's like to get off using his method....

Do yourself a huge favor...don't start his approach yet...read more here, about what we've suffered, some of us are still suffering....stay at your current stable dose, learn about bead counting and develop your own withdrawal plan....

I came off cold turkey, 60 to 0 in one day....because I had no choice....so I speak from experience....

The abrupt reductions in dose, over just a week, are the same as cold turkey....

Others will be chiming in here soon to welcome you and offer their help....I didn't mean to greet you with so little gentleness, it's just my immediate concern for you, and not wanting anyone to go through what I did!

I'm also pissed at your doc on your behalf...I'm pissed at all the docs and med "experts" who have no clue what this poison is and does to us....if they'd taken it and then tried to quit, they'd never be giving this lousy advise....

I was taking an early am old fart bathroom run, so I guess I'm a bit cranky!

Welcome, you've come to a wonderful place, with wonderful people....I never would have gotten off if not for this place and the folks here who helped me!

#3 TryinginFL

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:43 AM

Welcome dreamingotters!    I agree 100 % with FN....I, too, am a cold turkey survivor and the hell is definitely not worth it if you have a choice - and you do!

 

This site has many helpful, caring and supportive people  who can help you with the more gentle bead counting.  And they know what they're talking about!

 

Pease be kind to yourself - we all wish you luck and are here to help you - keep us posted!


#4 fishinghat

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:18 AM

Both FN and TFL are right. BUT if you decide to go the quick and dirty route just be ready for some shock and awe. Either way you go we are here for you. Please keep us posted.


#5 air3333

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:10 AM

Why do you want to be done with this medicine, and why were you on it in the first place? Does the medicine affect your work/school experiences? Does it hold you back in life? Various times the psychiatrist will believe that it is your illness that is holding you back, not the medicine. It comes down to belief. You only know your body. 

 

It does sound like the psychiatrist does not want you to be his patient or something. 

 

60 to 30 is not a cakewalk. I went from 90 to 60 and it took about 8 days to get over the withdrawal symptoms. I am planning for about the same when I go down from 60 to 30. Another issue is if you can handle the withdrawal symptoms. Cymbalta has severe withdrawal symptoms at times. 

 

Physicians only know so much and they are human just like you. It is easy to trust someone else but sometimes you have to take it into your own hands. Do I personally trust psychiatrists 100%? Definitely not. I know my body and they do not agree with the thoughts that I have about the medicine. Psychiatry seems to be more about blaming the illness than the medicine for anything. 


#6 ShadyLady

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:12 PM

Hey, DreamingOtters...I'm new here too...Welcome:) you are gonna be 'DreamingSharks!' I'm here to tell you first hand...please read my post somewhere from the middle of the night! The gates of hell have opened up on me in down dosing from 20mg! I, too, went down first from 120mg to 60mg, then 60 to 30 over a month? guess 2 by now, (sorry days are blending) and I didn't feel so bad either:s Don't know if the generic brand with pellets has caused this outbreak or not...Something went horribly wrong below 30 to 20!! If it weren't for the encouragement & advice
I've so generously received, I would be in a rubber room as I write this!

YOUR SHRINK IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER NO GOOD S.O.B. & SHOULD BE FORCED TO TAKE THIS S**T HE PRESCRIBED YOU & THEN FOLLOW HIS OWN ADVICE TO GET OFF IT! Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am so pss'd at any & every doctor PRACTICING medicine who is dispensing this dope without a skull & crossbones on the script!

PLEASE LISTEN TO THE WISE ONES WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! I'm just a newbie that doesn't know her butt from her brain, they both are functioning on equal par right now, but I do respect the opinions and advice these angels here on this site are so selfless in taking their time to help the helpless through! I hope you stay & keep posting so your experience can speak to another newbie in front and behind you. A prayer for you that you might have smoother sailing in these rocky waters than I have so far experienced! The anchor is holding with hope!

#7 FiveNotions

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:15 PM

Cymsilk, have you listened to reason and gone back on the brand at the higher dose?

#8 ittybittysmitty

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:28 PM

Dreamingotters,

Welcome to our wonderful community! You will find plenty of support and guidance here...

I totally agree with FiveNotions because my psycho make the same call...that was over a month ago and I'm still feeling the side effects...I would encourage you to trust your instincts and consider bead counting as an alternative method...You might be very sorry if you follow your doctor's advice...just warning you out of concern for your welfare.

May I ask if you are switching to a replacement drug? If you are it can take up to two weeks for it to build up in your system...

#9 ShadyLady

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:48 PM

Yes, FN...I counted out all those beads by sticking them on a piece of tape so they weren't jumping all over the place! 200 beads...so I opened another capsule counted 65 out & then stuck them in another capsule I poured out because I was too damn confused what to do with the other 135!! Did this at 5:00 a.m. Took the supplements @ 7a.m. & am holding steady! Thank you, Jesus!!

I know I am sounding off & acting like an idiot, but I had no idea what I was in for getting off this poison! I read nada before my brains started spilling out & down my crack:/ Really starting to think more about my sister and her FTD dementia... Guess I was so numb & dull for so long I never made any possible connection between the dope & dementia before now...

#10 fishinghat

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:27 PM

CymSik

 

Great job. Slow but steady wins the race.


#11 dreamingotters

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 02:34 PM

FN: I only just checked the forum now :( I've actually already gone down by half this morning, from 30 to 15...I'm going to see how my body reacts to this since it's already done, but I left a message with my psychiatrist so the plan might change.

 

air3333: I want to be done with this medicine because the low level nausea I've experienced has been ramping up badly, to the point where I've had to keep a trash bin with me for days. Eating's been harder and it's gotten to the point where I've skipped my meds before because I can't stomach them. That's dangerous, very not good, but this is hard to handle. I was taking the Cymbalta in the first place to help with both my fibro and bipolar depression. I'm worried about what will happen once off of it, but it wasn't helping all the way anyhow so I'd rather be off of it and look for something that will.

 

ittybittysmitty: I'm not switching to a replacement drug yet. I AM on lithium and lamictal at the moment as well, but I think I need a baseline before deciding anything else. I really don't know where this will leave me with my fibro and bipolar depression. But I do know there are other drugs for those that might work better and won't make me anxious and nauseous to take.

 

CymSik and everyone with advice: Thank you so much. I've called my psychiatrist at least and left a message. He should get back to me soon. I'm going to ask if we can do this over 2 or 3 weeks. I'm also going to ask if he's ever had anyone go off of Cymbalta (generic or otherwise. I'm on the generic)! I trust him because he's been with me for years but jeez, maybe I shouldn't on this! It makes me nervous to go off of doctor's orders, but really, from what I'm hearing, it isn't always best. I really don't think I can stay on for longer than 2 or 3 weeks...the reason I'm getting off is primarily it's progressively made me more and more nauseous, to the point where I've skipped my meds on occasion because I couldn't stomach it, and that's dangerous. I can't take this nausea. Sometimes I can barely eat because of it. I'm thinking that maybe because 60 to 30 was shit but the withdrawal didn't last as long as others have said it has for them, maybe it'll be not as bad? I'll take it one day at a time I guess...and be open to going longer if I have to. This whole experience is just making me so nervous. In any case, I really appreciate the advice and support, so so much, and that you'll support me still if I go off quicker than recommended here, thank you.

 

One question: If things get bad this way can I go back on 30, even out, and then start again slower? As a contingency if I go too fast?


#12 fishinghat

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:05 PM

Absolutely DO. I hope you don't have any major issues but if you do then that is a good idea.


#13 dreamingotters

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:19 PM

Ok, ok good, thank you. That makes me a little less nervous.


#14 thismoment

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:50 PM

dreamingotters

 

I see your doctor has you quitting cold turkey and says you'll be over it in a week. You also said you trust him and you just want this over with. This is possible, though unlikely. It's true that some people have reported few side-effects during withdrawal, but most endure some measure of withdrawal difficulties.

 

Countless others have quit this drug cold turkey, and you can do it too. Many others choose to wean off over a few months. The ones who wean off tend to have an easier time of it, although the total withdrawal time is similar.

 

A variety of physical and cognitive symptoms may come and go, and you could feel you are developing other medical conditions. You  have to tie yourself to the mast, as it were, for perhaps 4 to 6 months and just let the symptoms come and go. You could be offered other medications for illnesses that are in all likelihood due to withdrawal- this time of confusion is one of the biggest challenges for people withdrawing from antidepressants.

 

Keep us posted and we will help where we can.


#15 dreamingotters

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:51 PM

Thank you thismoment. Just knowing you guys are here really gives me courage.


#16 ShadyLady

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:46 PM

DO, you have my support in anything you decide is best for you!! I love what @This Moment said about 'tying yourself to the mast'...great advice. Also, I did not mean to undermine your relationship or trust with your psychiatrist...I have no help from mine in this withdrawal journey so I vented unfairly. Please accept my sincerest apology...today, I am doing better mentally after having gone back on 20mg of the brand instead of generic. Hugs & hope, Sistafriend!

#17 dreamingotters

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 01:51 PM

Ah no it's ok! As much as I trust my psychiatrist, I'm coming to realize that in this matter he might not know what he should! It makes me upset to be honest, rather seething. I don't really have the energy to be full out angry, but he could have at least TOLD me about the withdrawal period and symptoms BEFORE I got on the godforsaken stuff! I mean, really. And he hasn't called me back yet for some reason which means I won't hear from him until Monday at least. I really do think he knows what he's talking about in most matters, and generally he's receptive to comments and talking, but it'll be a cold day in hell if I ever go on a med again without knowing every facet about it. *headwall*

 

I'm glad you're doing better today. I hope it lasts <3

 

I'm doing well. Have taken two 15 mg doses so far (down from 30 mg) and haven't felt any withdrawal effects yet. I'm not holding my breath that this will continue, I'm not letting down my guard. But...well, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. How long did it take withdrawal effects to kick in for you and others?


#18 thismoment

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 02:28 PM

dreamingotters

 

". . .it'll be a cold day in hell if I ever go on a med again without knowing every facet about it."

 

I couldn't agree more. This is a good opportunity to talk about Informed Consent. When we participate in Informed Consent, we are briefed on the benefits, the hazards, timelines- how long we should be on the medication, review intervals, and when we should come off. Problems associated with uploading, maintaining, and withdrawing are also discussed. Then your signature is required as it is when you have surgery.

 

We need to demand Informed Consent from the physician before accepting psychiatric drugs that (with respect to how they actually work, and the long-term outcomes) are still largely experimental.

 

Informed Consent should be standard protocol in the medical industry for these powerful drugs, but it's not.


#19 TryinginFL

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:51 PM

.....I still can't believe my pcp wanting to put me back on the poison after what I have just been through and when I wanted to know what else he might have in mind and he wouldn't tell me....

 

 

Had a referral from a friend this afternoon for a new pcp!  :)


#20 air3333

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:01 PM

 

Ah no it's ok! As much as I trust my psychiatrist, I'm coming to realize that in this matter he might not know what he should! It makes me upset to be honest, rather seething. I don't really have the energy to be full out angry, but he could have at least TOLD me about the withdrawal period and symptoms BEFORE I got on the godforsaken stuff! I mean, really. And he hasn't called me back yet for some reason which means I won't hear from him until Monday at least. I really do think he knows what he's talking about in most matters, and generally he's receptive to comments and talking, but it'll be a cold day in hell if I ever go on a med again without knowing every facet about it. *headwall*

 

I'm glad you're doing better today. I hope it lasts <3

 

I'm doing well. Have taken two 15 mg doses so far (down from 30 mg) and haven't felt any withdrawal effects yet. I'm not holding my breath that this will continue, I'm not letting down my guard. But...well, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. How long did it take withdrawal effects to kick in for you and others?

 

 

There is no sense in blaming others. They do not know how it feels on the drug. It may have saved your life. If you blame them, then what? It really doesn't matter.

 

It is great you are taking control before it is too late. I don't know you, but I guess when someone wants off a drug like cymbalta that means they may feel good enough to do it. So I hope that you won't fall into a depression and can cope with your situation in a healthy way. 

 

My original diagnosis and drugs may have saved my life, but it does seem that the drawn out consequences of the withdrawal for months after taking the drug should be disclosed to the families before taking the drug. Still, I credit it with helping me socially. 

 

Physicians do deny the withdraw symptoms even exist. I am thinking this is the case because they never took the drug and haven't experienced the withdrawal effects. Also, there is no data on this and they believe it is possible the drug put the disease into remission, and once the drug was taken away, the disease came back within months.

 

I learned that you do have to reality-test ideas with those who went through the same process (in anything you do in life and business). Asking a physician that has not experienced the withdrawal for months after stopping may keep you coming back to the Doctor's office for years and possibly indefinitely.

 

Withdrawing from Cymbalta will be the most difficult thing for me to do in life. I have to prepare my whole life around the withdrawal symptoms that may last months after stopping the drug. This is my reality because I have withdrawn from Effexor and the drug is similar. Experts can deny the withdrawal effects all they want, the reality is unfortunately much different. 


#21 dreamingotters

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:26 PM

I guess when someone wants off a drug like cymbalta that means they may feel good enough to do it. So I hope that you won't fall into a depression and can cope with your situation in a healthy way. 

 

That's unfortunately not the case for me. I WAS feeling better on it emotionally (in regards to my bipolar depression) and physically (in regards to my fibro) than I was before I started taking it, BUT not to the point where it was enough. I was still depressed. I got so used to it that even my depression (which was less) still seemed normal. Still, I was holding there. And then the physical aspect got bad with the horrible nausea.

 

In essence, I don't necessarily feel good enough to do it, but I feel the necessity overrides that. I need to get off of it, and I'll have to weather the storm when I do. I know my depression will flare somewhat (i don't know the extent) and my fibro will definitely flare. But I'll weather it. I'll have to. I know that's a sentiment shared around here. I just hope maybe it won't be that bad.

 

TryinginFL: I hope this new one is good! Don't compromise for your doctor!


#22 thismoment

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:55 AM

dreamingotters

I can't speak for others on the forum, but I do not endorse suffering of any kind-- if meds alleviate suffering, take the meds. To alleviate suffering and promote well-being in each other is perhaps the highest ethic to which we may aspire as individuals and as a society.

Perhaps some people are better off on Cymbalta-- or Cymbalta plus other taylored add-on medications-- rather than withdraw. It has never been about getting off Cymbalta or getting off medication of any kind from any source for me-- it's only about quality of life: the alleviation of suffering and the promotion of well-being.

#23 dreamingotters

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 02:08 AM

thismoment: I agree. I hope I haven't implied otherwise.


#24 Wagtail

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 03:00 AM

dreamingotters
I can't speak for others on the forum, but I do not endorse suffering of any kind-- if meds alleviate suffering, take the meds. To alleviate suffering and promote well-being in each other is perhaps the highest ethic to which we may aspire as individuals and as a society.
Perhaps some people are better off on Cymbalta-- or Cymbalta plus other taylored add-on medications-- rather than withdraw. It has never been about getting off Cymbalta or getting off medication of any kind from any source for me-- it's only about quality of life: the alleviation of suffering and the promotion of well-being.


Thismoment , your post made me weep ... Permission to ease my suffering by using medication ?.
I have feared medication & consequencely suffered beyond belief ... I am suffering now !.
I plan to ride out these awful inexplicable feelings until I can allow myself to take a SMALL ammount of relief .
7 months off CRAPALTA & my original illness has returned ... Depression , anxiety , fear , all part of my PTSD .. For 10 yrs I have been almost free of these symptoms & I thought I was healed & could rid myself of all chemicals .
I am bereft to think that I might need to seek out another antidepressant just to live a somewhat normal life ...

#25 thismoment

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 04:07 AM

dreamingotters

"thismoment: I agree. I hope I haven't implied otherwise."

Not at all. Your excellent post just made me think that 'withdrawal' in itself doesn't represent an ethic to be strived for. Withdrawal is just withdrawal, neither good nor bad; it's relative value depends upon context, individual circumstances.

Take care.


#26 thismoment

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 04:21 AM

Wagtail

My dear the only thing that matters is your quality of life, your well-being. When medication is required to achieve that, then take the medication. No one would suggest a diabetic wean off insulin to claim drug-free status. That's absurd.

Only you can determine what is, and isn't working. It's your right as a human being to seek this peace, with or without medication-- it doesn't matter-- and it's beyond the scope of external judgement or criticism.

 

To live drug-free yet in pain is insanity.


#27 dreamingotters

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 08:58 AM

Oh Wagtail :( I wish I could reach through this screen and give you a hug. There is nothing wrong with needing help, support, and that's what medication can give. There is nothing wrong with needing and accepting that support to maintain a healthy and happy life. "To live drug-free yet in pain is insanity" - I very much agree. 


#28 dreamingotters

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 09:15 AM

I'm wondering how long it took for withdrawal effects to kick in for other people? When I went down from 60 to 30 it was really really bad for a day starting 2 doses after (two nights, one day) and started getting back to normal over the subsequent 3 days. Now I'm down from 30 to 15 and I've been taking 15 for...3 doses. I'm not feeling any withdrawal effects yet, though I CAN feel my fibro more. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop? Does it take different amounts of time for different people? And how long should I wait before going down to 7 mg, as is my plan, if I'm not feeling any withdrawal effects?


#29 FiveNotions

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 09:59 AM

Wish there was a hard and fast rule about s/e kick-you-in-the-butt times...but it seems to be different for different people....Fishinghat and others do regularly not that the s/e can get worse the lower one goes on the dose....again, since I just plain jumped off the cliff with no bungee cord or chute, I can't give much help.

Just give yourself as much time as you can before you push yourself down further in dose....this isn't a race....and your brain and body need time to adjust.....

#30 dreamingotters

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:15 AM

My muscles and joints hurt like a bad fibro flare and I'm so out of it, fatigued, weak, a little light headed, and just so out of it. Probably not the best thing when on crutches already. I also feel lke I'm going to cry. But i Don't know how much of this is a really bad fibro flare and how much is withdrawal. It's not as bad as it was from 60 to 30. My head feels kind of like it's floating.





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