27 replies to this topic

[Daysfan012]

I've been completely off cymbalta for 12 days and taking 20 mg of Prozac. I'm also on 450 Wellbutrin extended release. For the past week I have been crying constantly. I am so depressed and hopeless I just don't know what to do. I have an appointment with pdoc in a week and a half but I think I will change it to an earlier appointment. I'm just not sure how long I can go on like this. I'm at a lost for what to do. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

[equuswoman]

I had to slowly taper off this poison by bead counting. Took me over 4 months. I got thru it with the support of the ppl on this forum. Glad you're gonna make an earlier appt. Prayers. TheEquusWoman♡

[thismoment]

Daysfan012

 

The SSRI Prozac and the non-trycyclic antidepressant Bupropion aside-- you are in discontinuation from Cymbalta. When did you start the Prozac and the Wellbutrin?

[fishinghat]

TM is absolutely right. Prozac takes 6 to 8 weeks to buildup in the body so like TM said 'How long you been on the Prozac?'

 

Does the dr plan on working up the dosage of Prozac?

[FiveNotions]

Just fyi..the wellbutrin xl 450 mg is the maximum allowable dosage... any more than that and there's an exceptionally high risk of seizures and other nasty overdose effects... I know from personal experience....

In addition to the questions asked by TM and FH,

How long were you on Cymbalta, what dose did you start at, and what dose were you at when you quit cold turkey 12 days ago?

Were you put on the Prozac to help you get off the Cymbalta?

What dose wellbutrin did you start at? Has it always been the xl?

Are any of these drugs....Cymbalta, wellbutrin, Prozac ..... the generic versions?

[downtongirl]

Days...when I weaned off of Cymbalta two autumn's ago my doctor used Prozac and we were able to do it in a month.

[Daysfan012]

I started on the Prozac about three weeks ago. I was on the Prozac and cymbalta 20 mg for a week then off the cymbalta. I started on cymbalta about four months ago. I started tapering down on the cymbalta maybe two months ago because it was making me extremely tired. I went from 60 to 40 then to 20. I'm only using the Prozac to get off the the cymbalta.

[fishinghat]

Well DF12, you have almost a month to go before the Prozac makes a big difference. I hope he keeps you on the 20 mg Cymbalta til then.

[Daysfan012]

I started the Wellbutrin about about six weeks ago when I started coming down on the cymbalta. I was on 150 for a month them 300 for about two weeks and on 450 just a few days.

[Daysfan012]

I'm already off the 20. I've been completely off cymbalta for twelve days and the last week has been hell.

[fishinghat]

You are off the Cymbalta and only on 20 mg Prozac. I wish you luck. 20 mg may not be enough and like I said earlier it takes Prozac 6 to 8 weeks to really make a difference. I have concerns that 20 mg may not be enough to help. It could be a rough ride so hold on and be patient. You might ask him to increase the Prozac some more. The Wellbutrin may not help much with he withdrawal as Cymbalta controls serotonin and norepinephrine and Wellbutrin controls dopamine,

[Daysfan012]

Wow 6-8 weeks is a long time to feel like this. I know for sure I'm not going back on the cymbalta at this point. I'm actually feeling more depressed than when I was off the meds. I emailed my pdoc so hopefully she will have some insight into what I should do. Thanks for all tHe responses.

[FiveNotions]

Daysfan, keep us posted, especially about what your pdoc has to say...

You'll get through this, it isn't easy, but you'll make it!

About the wellbutrin, do you feel that it's helping you? I'm still a bit concerned that you've moved up to the absolute maximum dose pretty rapidly.... with not much time at the 300 mg...it typically takes longer that two weeks at any given dose to determine whether or not it's effective ....

Also, Wellbutrin, as FH noted, acts on dopamine, not serotonin.... and statistically, fewer people have dopamine-deficient type of depression....most seem to respond to the serotonin ...ssris....

If you want some more info on the dopamine/Wellbutrin angle, let me know. I've got some links stashed that I can post here for you.

[Daysfan012]

I feel like the Wellbutrin is doing nothing. My pdoc switched me to 300 at my last appt but she said I could go up to 450 if I felt I needed it and this week I needed something just maybe that wasn't it. I would appreciate the links. The more info the better.

[FiveNotions]

Daysfan, here are links to a couple of items from the website of a dude named Peter Smith, a UK alternative healer or naturopath of some sort...the caveat is that he's promoting his own book and treatment program...do not get caught up in that part of the info...the articles give a decent, understandable, explanation of the difference between dopamine deficient depression and serotonin deficient depression...

http://www.balancing...Depression.html

http://www.balancing...Depression.html

I've got to dig back a bit further into my saved articles file to find the other articles I recall..

FishingHat, do you have anything handy on this that you could share?

[thismoment]

Daysfan012

 

Here's my guess: the symptoms you are experiencing are Cymbalta Discontinuation. The Prozac takes about 6 weeks to reach good effectiveness, so it will be a few more weeks for that to attenuate the symptoms from the CD. But it won't happen in a flash, yet it could start to improve sooner than later-- there is no hard science on this.

 

It would surely help to increase the dosage of Prozac for maybe 6-8 weeks and then start rounding that down.

 

It's a waiting game: Imagine that you are carrying a backpack full of small rocks- it's heavy. Every few days a rock falls out and the pack gets a little lighter. One day you are focussed on something other than the pack, and you notice that two rocks fell out! Discontinuation is like that- it feels like there is more progress when we find compelling distractions.

 

Best wishes! 

[downtongirl]

Days....wellbutrin is a very activating medication.  I have bad anxiety and when I have tried it before I could not take It because it was too activating.  I do think you are experiencing Cymbalta withdrawal but If you are having a lot of anxiety I doubt the wellbutrin is helping at all and maybe contributing to the anxiety.

[Daysfan012]

Well I spoke to my pdoc and she said to up the Prozac to 40mg so I guess I will give that a try.  She seems to think it is not Cymbalta withdrawals because we tapered down.

 

downtongirl, what do you mean by activating medication?

[thismoment]

Daysfan012

 

You stepped down your Cymbalta pretty fast and were on the 20 just a short time then stopped the 20 without tapering just 13 days ago. That's pretty close to cold turkey by our standards. The standard uninformed-physician strategy is the step-down method you describe, followed by alternating days or similar nonsense. They should read the Eli Lilly recommendation for discontinuing: It says don't step down, don't quit cold turkey, but rather- wean off slowly.

 

This isn't your fault. It just frustrates me when the docs don't read the recommendations from the manufacturer or research current protocol. They just make shit up.

 

So my assessment is that you didn't taper down, really. A proper taper is a linear taper over perhaps 90 days; the slope is long and gentle, and you stop reducing if the symptoms get rough. Once you stabilize, you continue reducing the dosage. I'm sure you've read the information on bead-counting elsewhere on this forum.

 

I'm glad they're upping the Prozac (I think I mentioned that the other day). That will help, but not for 2 or 3 weeks. In the meantime, you are in Cymbalta Discontinuation. Hang on!

 

It's not your fault!

 

Take care.

[fishinghat]

Well I spoke to my pdoc and she said to up the Prozac to 40mg so I guess I will give that a try.  She seems to think it is not Cymbalta withdrawals because we tapered down.

 

downtongirl, what do you mean by activating medication?

Smart move by your dr. 20 mg just too low.

[FiveNotions]

Daysfan, Wellbutrin enhances dopamine... dopamine is what I think of as the "zippitty-do-da" neurotransmitter... it activates us, makes us feel motivated ... folks like me who lack the natural zippitty-do-da stuff tend to gravitate to heavy coffee drinking, cocaine, amphetamines, etc... all stuff that adds the "zip" we crave...

If you don't lack dopamine, and take wellbutrin, you're gonna get over zippitty...and that will show up as anxiety, panic, lack of ability to focus and pay attention, etc...

I think of serotonin as the "mellow yellow" neurotransmitter ... the "life is cool, no sweat, man" stuff...

I need (or used to need) some help in the "zip" department...so wellbutrin was the best choice for me...

I don't need help in the "mellow, no sweat, it's all cool" department...so the serotonin boost in Cymbalta put me straight into the brain dead zone ....

[barbarahogan]

I've been completely off cymbalta for 12 days and taking 20 mg of Prozac. I'm also on 450 Wellbutrin extended release. For the past week I have been crying constantly. I am so depressed and hopeless I just don't know what to do. I have an appointment with pdoc in a week and a half but I think I will change it to an earlier appointment. I'm just not sure how long I can go on like this. I'm at a lost for what to do. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

This is my very first reply/post!  I've been reading everything I can find on this website and it has really helped!  So keep reading and keep posting. I'm on day 8 and have cried every day myself.  I've also been keeping a written journal which has helped me vent about various topics that have been stuffed inside and behind all the alcohol that I have consumed the entire time I was on the poison.  

[barbarahogan]

I'm already off the 20. I've been completely off cymbalta for twelve days and the last week has been hell.

When I first started off on July 1, I had NO IDEA what I was in for!  I have taken effexor and zoloft and going off them was easy compared to this! I know everyone has to find their own way and so do we Daysfan012!  I imagine we are probably about equal at this point.  What dosage were you on?  I was on 60 for about 4 years, went to 30 the last week in June and haven't had any for a week.  Thank you to ALL of you who have left posts!  I think I have read most of them in the last 100 hours!  So glad I found all of you!

[thismoment]

Hi Barb

Welcome!

Keep writing through your tears my dear- its the best thing to do just now.

Indeed, Cymbalta loves booze, AND shopping!

How long on the C word, at what dosage, and did you quit cold turkey?

Take care.

[FiveNotions]

Hi Barbara, welcome!

Yep...Cymbalta and booze ... I was sober for about 15 years until this poison came into my life....then, without even batting an eye....I was drinking like a fish...dropped all my good friends..spent thousands of dollars doing weird online shopping...lived in an apartment with all the blinds closed all the time...and didn't file tax returns for 6 years...just a few examples :-)

I quit cold turkey the first week of last December...just started my 8th month off...I quit drinking immediately, and have zero "craving" ... do still enjoy a bit of Guinness stout, but can't even finish a whole bottle without getting a headache...and no more bizarre shopping...my blinds are open ... and I'm alive again...

Dr. Peter Breggin uses the phrase "medication spellbinding" ....

I'm glad you found us, Barb. I would never have been able to get off the poison were it not for the help and support I got here!

[FiveNotions]

Barb, I was on 60 mg for 7-8 years...and quit cold turkey cuz I had to ... but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone... it's the hard way to go...

Have you considered going back up to your 60 mg dose, getting stable again, and then wean off using the bead counting method?

You'll still have symptoms, and some rough days, but you'll have a bit of control over the process...you can stop and hold at any time you need to, for as long as you need to....this gives your brain and body more rest and time to adjust to the drop in serotonin ....

Also, do you have something on hand for the anxiety in case you need it? A benzo, or one of the other alternatives?

Check the "nutritional support" and "what's helping me" forums for ideas to deal with whatever symptoms you're having.... they'll change, kind of like the "special of the day" at a restaurant ;-)

[barbarahogan]

Just wondering what the list would look like if I recorded all the crappy ways I've felt since leaving Crapalta behind: The first thing I noticed was not being able to sleep at night and emotions gushing forth in all directions about a myriad of topics - all about what I've been through since I started taking it 4 years ago.  (My marriage of 17 years unraveled slowly,painfully, and completely - leaving me alone and barely able to function.)  Anyway..., here's my list: 1. insomnia 2. uncontrollable emotional outbursts 3. headache 4. brain zaps 5. hot flashes 6. dizziness 7. diarrhea  8.body aches

 

Now, what I have done to counter the bad stuff (all of which I've learned here)!  1. Cut out the alcohol!  On most days over the past 4 years, I gave in to a strong desire to drink alcohol EVERY single day while on Crabalta. 2. Drink little or no caffeine but instead lots and lots of lemon water.  3.I took Alkaseltzer for nausea and headache.  4. I Took Exedrin for headache. 5. I took Bendryl for insomnia but last night I took 2 AdvilPM and that worked better. 6. I have exercised some but had my right hip replaced at the end of May so I'm still taking it easy.  7. I started taking dramamine yesterday and I think it is also helping.

 

I've been staying at my parent's house but am heading home tomorrow.  I drove yesterday for the first time.  I think I will be ok because I don't have to make a lot of turns during my 200 miles.  Local driving is more difficult because of the brain zaps which come on harder and more often then more you have to turn your head.

 

Mom made Jello for dinner because I read today that it could help with the tremors.  Love you Mom!

[FiveNotions]

Well Barbara, you've got all the typical symptoms...and you're doing all the good stuff to respond to them .... continue to take it easy on the exercise...gentle stuff is okay, but no huge gym stuff...guess you can't cuz of the hip, so that's actually good cuz it'll force you to take it easy ...

Also, do be careful with the driving... brain zaps and other symptoms aren't a good combo with a fast moving heavy projectile ... once you get home, park the car and settle in for a while and rest...

You might also want to consider some supplements...quite a few of us take/took a multi vitamin, b-complex, omega 3 and chelated magnesium as basics... but be sure to check them against any other meds you're taking for possible interactions...and, some folks are ultra sensitive to supps like omega 3 and/or b-complex... so just be aware ...

The emotions are all over the lot during the first few weeks of this process... I went from hysterical crying to rage in 3 seconds or less.... I cried at every movie I saw, even the Monty Python comedies... and I had zero control over the emotions... it's just your brain, rewiring itself...sparks fly....don't stick your finger in your sockets, just let the stuff sort itself out...sit back and sorta' watch the show ;-)

Keep us posted!