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Bead Counting For Generic


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#1 MichB

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

I'm currently on 60mg of Duloxetine.  Been at this dose for over 5 weeks.

I'm ready to bead count.  I have 6 capsules left.  I will get my refill tomorrow.

 

Here's my situation:

I opened all of the capsules to count the beads. Each capsule has a different

amount of beads.  (Luckily I'm a nail tech and do nail art.  I have a craft bead

counter tray to use for counting all of my rhinestones and pearls, etc.  So I'm

pretty patient at counting itty bitty beads).

I counted the beads for each capsule twice.  The lowest count was 365 beads.

The highest count was 375.  I've read to reduce the beads by very small amounts.

This will make my reduction a bit hard if I'm supposed to do that due to the

varying amount in each capsule.

 

So what the hell should I do?

Can these companies not find a scale to measure out the proper amount of beads?

I understand these little suckers probably don't weigh much if at all, but c'mon!!

From what I've read about counting, it's very important to stay consistent on how

many beads to subtract per day.  I haven't had my dose today and I'm feeling nauseous

again so I better take it. 

 

I guess I will begin the bead counting tomorrow in hopes that someone gives me

advice in the meantime.

 

Not sure if everyone can see the photo of my results, so here is what I have:

Each capsule contains the following beads:

 

365, 367, 368, 372, 372, &375.


#2 MichB

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:21 PM

Ok, uploading the photo didn't work.  Oops!


#3 equuswoman

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    In the future want 2B off Cymbalta! The physicians are no help. Looking for understanding, support & encouragement as I know this is a difficult process. Want 2 be of help 2 others who will find this site looking for same things as I.

Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:35 PM

Hi and welcome to the forum. I had to slowly wean off Cymbalta by counting beads. The w/d symptoms were hell for me but thanks to the members here I was able to rid myself of this evil poison. It wasn't easy but after 4 months I'm free of Cymbalta. You can do it to. We will help.
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#4 MichB

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:32 AM

Last night I removed 10 beads from the capsule with 365 in it. Today I removed 12 beads from the capsule with 367 in it.
Because I can't seem to find any help I decided I will start taking a capsule every day with 355 beads. I'll see how that goes and count back from there.
So for anyone taking the generic 60mg all I can say is count the beads in each capsule. In my situation each amount is different.

I felt more sick than normal last night and today. I took a ginger root supplement after each dose and that seemed to help, I think.

If anyone happens to find any help with my particular issue, please let me know. I think I'm on my own with this.

#5 fishinghat

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:36 AM

I don't really know what to do. With that much variation in how many beads in a capsule you are left with little choice but actually counting them each time. Sucks.


#6 FiveNotions

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

Mich, that's absolutely nutty!

 

Which company is the mfg of your generic? Name and, if you have it, address.... I bet it's a co. in India .... I'd like to try to find out more about the company and it's manufacturing process and safety records (if any exist)....

 

Talk about crappy quality control ....

 

Let's see .... of the capsules where you counted out the beads, the lowest bead count was 365 .....

 

In the capsule(s) you've taken, you reduced the number of beads to 355 .... and you've had a hard time ....

 

How about increasing the number of beads you take to 360 .... see how you react to that for a few days ...

 

My own thought is that you're right, you may just have to count the beads in each one ... 

 

I was thinking perhaps a scale, and measuring by weight would work... but how could it... if there's no consistency in the number of beads in each capsule, how can there be consistency in the actual dose of the drug in each capsule? And, is there any consistency in the drug dose in each bead....


#7 thismoment

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:21 AM

MitchB

 

Over what period of time do you wish to withdraw?

 

The average number of beads in your capsules is 370. That number is high enough that the variance won't have much effect. Take 370 and divide it by the number of days you plan to withdraw, for example over 90 days: 370 divide 90 = 4 beads per day.

 

If you plan a withdrawal over 4 months take out 3 extra beads per day: day one take out 3, day two 6, day three 9 beads and so on.

 

If you plan a withdrawal over 3 months take out 4 extra beads per day: day one take out 4, day two 8, day three 12 beads and so on.

 

I would not recommend withdrawing in less than 3 months (90 days), but you have to decide.


#8 FiveNotions

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

Mich, cancel my suggestion .... go with TM's approach .... and given that you've got a business (or two) to run, plus a teenage son.... I say the longer period of time over which you do it, the better!


#9 MichB

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:43 PM

FH,

Here's the funny thing, I don't mind the bead counting. When I counted the other night it was kind of relaxing. Haha! Am I the first person to say that? 😂

TM,

I don't really have a set time period for withdrawal. I don't care how long it takes. I plan on listening to my body as I go. For some reason I thought 10 beads to start. Because of the odd numbers in each capsule I decided to take the lowest amount, the 365 and pick an even number. No rhyme or reason in this jacked up brain of mine! I've caught myself wondering how many beads were in each capsule I've been taking over these past months. For example, what if one dose had 340? Or 320? Or 400?! What a mess.
I like your formula. I shall consider doing that. My main focus is going slow and not getting sick because of work. But you're right, I need a solid plan. I can't take this shit forever!!

FN,

I actually have a bead counter which makes counting not so bad. The company on my bottle is called: CITRO. I looked online quickly and found a company called CITRON. My bottle had plenty of room for the whole name. Wonder why they shortened it. Mine are the: x 30 capsules.

Get this!! The beads are all different sized. Very minor but still diff. Even some of the beads were broken or little chips. This sort of angers me. Quality control issues is right!! 😡

Thanks for weighing in y'all! 😊
Mich

#10 FiveNotions

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:30 PM

Ugh... that's the generic that my Medicaid clinic doc prescribed to me and that almost put me into a psychotic episode ... which is why I quit cold turkey....

Citron Pharma (http://www.citronpharma.com) is the company name, it's a privately held corp headquartered in New Brunswick, NJ, its mfg ops are in India (whose government does a lousy job with drug mfg ) oversight, and where our FDA has barely any influence ... it's a relatively new co. start-up, created solely for the purpose of jumping on brand drugs that have just come off of patent protection, and rapidly manufacturing (in India) and marketing generic versions .... it hit the Cymbalta brand coming off patent and in Dec. 2013 announced its generic duloxetine ...

Its CEO/founder is Vimal Kavaru, who describes himself as a "serial entrepreneur" in a brief bio for a 2011 presentation he made to the American Telugu Association (http://www.ataworld.org), a US-based "national non-profit organization to serve people of Telugu origin in North America" ..... (Telugu is a dialect/language spoken in the Hyderabad region in Northern India.)

http://sambaralu.org...imal Kavuru.pdf

http://www.linkedin....avuru/6/7a6/360

http://www.businessw...a®#.U8HKe7lOXDc

As an aside, Hyderabad is one of, if not the, key pharma mfg center/hub in India... where govt oversight of the pharma industry is shoddy, at best.... the Indian pharma industry is the source of ever growing profits, bribes and criminal activities are rampant, and the US FDA has little to no influence...

http://www.deccanchr...harma-companies

Citron's gig is to get rapid FDA approval for its generics using something called the Abbreviated New Drug Application(ANDA) ....

http://www.reuters.c...100 BSW20131211

Here's some interesting info about ANDAs and generics... note the second paragraph....
http://pharma.about....Application.htm

An Abbreviated New Drug Application (ANDA) is submitted to the FDA when seeking review and approval for a generic drug product. The application is submitted to the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, Office of Generic Drugs. If approved, the generic drug may be manufactured and sold in the U.S. market.

Generic drug applications are not typically required to include preclinical (animal) and clinical (human) data to establish safety and effectiveness. An applicant submitting an ANDA must scientifically demonstrate that its product is bioequivalent to the previously approved innovator or brand name drug.

#11 MichB

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

FN,

Thanks for doing all the legwork for me. After your narratives I'm very afraid to click on any of those links. My God! How corrupt!!

This Vimal dude needs to be hog tied and injected with this shit straight into his temples and hope he survives long enough to enjoy the pure torture of his creation!!
No I'm not having a rage moment! I say this with a smile on my face! 😁

I am pissed that I have to keep dumping this poison into my body long term until I can wean it out!

I'm so sorry for anyone who has to take this or any other form of Chit-alta! My stupid word for the day!

Thanks again for finding this info for me!

Mich

#12 scared60

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:42 PM

Lots of information here. How are you doing Mich? Hope progressing.

I'm back on 20mg as of today will do my 1st investigational counting tomorrow. Stabilize a week and then start taking beads out.

#13 BethLynn79

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

MichB, I am also starting to wean from the same generic as you. I have been taking my 30mg dose every other, then every 3 days, not realizing that was the worse way to wean until I found this site this evening. I am now dreading opening up and counting the il-measured beads. I am upset that 1) poor quality control is allowed in America and 2) that the pharmacist wouldn't advise of this when asking me if I want to 'save $ by switching to generic'.
I hope your bead counting continues to be enjoyable! Maybe I can send you my bottle to count, too?!

#14 FiveNotions

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:19 PM

Hi BethLynn, welcome and congratulations on your decision to get off this stuff! This is a wonderful forum, with wonderful people... I've been off the poison for almost 8 months now, and I never would have made it if not for the information and support I found here.

 

I didn't find this place, however, until I'd already quit cold turkey, and too much time had passed for me to reinstate and bead count, so I just slogged forward ... it was the hard way to go, for sure ... as is the alternating day approach you've been using. Did your doc tell you to do it this way? (They are, for the most part, clueless about how hard it is to get off this drug.)

 

I'm glad you're switching to the bead counting method ... counting the beads may sound like a pain in the butt, but it's worth the effort, as you'll save yourself some of the hard symptoms that come with cold turkey and alternating day approaches ...

 

Unless you're actually off the stuff completely, and have been so for some time, the first thing you need to do is to reinstate at the 30 mg, and get yourself stable again. Then, you can start bead counting down from there. (Others here who've used this method can tell you more about it than I can, since I just dove out of the plane without a parachute, so to speak.)

 

Here are some questions that'll help us help you ... when did you start taking cymbalta, and for what condition? Was 30 mg your highest dose? When did you switch to the generic? Did you notice any difference in how you felt on the generic as compared to the brand? And, when did you start the alternating day thing?

 

Is there any chance you can switch back to the brand Cymbalta long enuf to do the bead counting process? Having more beads means that each bead contains less of the drug, so you can have more control over how much of a dose you drop each time you remove a bead, or beads...

 

Also, do you have something on hand, like a benzo, to help you with the anxiety ... which, if you haven't already felt it, may soon appear ...

 

One last question, what other meds are you taking, and for what conditions?

 

Don't mean to swamp you with questions... it's just that the process, while similar in some general respects, is really quite unique for each individual ... (our brains are all wired just a bit differently) .... and the more information we have about your own particular situation with respect to how you've used Cymbalta, and in what context, make it easier for us to make suggestions about what might work best for you.


#15 butterfly854

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

Strange, I'm on generic Cymabalta (Duloxetine, Lupin Pharm) 60 mg and in each capsule there is 12 beads.... 5 mg each.  This makes is waaay easy to count! 


#16 fishinghat

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:50 PM

That sounds easier but only leaves you with the option of  5 mg drops. That is a big drop and you will pay a price until you settle down and are ready for the next drop. I would recommend 5 mg drop every 14 days or so but listen to your body it will tell you when you are ready.


#17 thismoment

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:15 PM

butterfly

 

I agree with fishinghat.

 

Also, the 12 beads fit perfectly into Dr. Stuart Shipko's 10% reduction program. Each of your beads is about 8.3% of 60 mg, which is even more conservative. Take your time. Don't worry about speeding it up; as fishinghat says, listen to your body and reduce to the next level when you are stable.

 

Best wishes!


#18 butterfly854

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Thats a great idea! I will try the 5mg drop every two weeks. Thanks!

#19 Sfava987

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:52 PM

Hello! I just joined recently and am trying to figure out a weaning schedule by possible using a gram scale instead of just bead counting since I think the number of beads per capsule can vary. Has anyone used a scale successfully? By the way, I will be weaning down from 20mg. of a generic brand made by Torrent Pharma in India. Ugh! Does our FDA ever surprise spot check the factories over there?! Anyway, I went on 20mg generic Prozac 8 days ago to stay on throughout the weaning process, hoping this will prevent withdrawal symptoms. Any opinions, advice?

#20 Sfava987

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:57 PM

I forgot to ask...the tinnitis in my ears which began during my first withdrawal before I went back on 20mg. I was hoping it would go away before I begin weaning again so I could start the slower process symptom free. I'm a little scared it will never go away. (I've been back on the 20mg for 7 days as of today.). Has anyone experienced tinnitus during withdrawal and then had it go away at some point after being off the drug???

#21 fishinghat

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 04:44 PM

Yes Sfava. Many have had tinnitus and it slowly faded away with the other withdrawal symptoms.


#22 thismoment

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:37 PM

Sfava987

 

I developed tinnitus when I was withdrawing from Cymbalta. It's been 30 months since I quit and my tinnitus is still here.





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