25 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Like so many of you all I have used Ativan periodically during major anxiety spells. I don't wish to use it but sometimes when the world comes tumbling down at you feet you have no choice. For me, one of my big questions how much can I take and for how long before any significant addiction occurs. I  have know used it 3 times. The first two times I was on it 4 or 5 months at a rate of 2 or 3 mg/day on average. I was able to wean off it by making 5 to 10% drops in dosage every 2 weeks with little withdrawal symptoms.

 

This time the Cymbalta withdrawal was so severe that I had to use 4 to 6 mg a day for nearly a year. Many times I had to take 4 mg at bedtime just to get to sleep and there was two times that I had to go get a 2 mg IM shot on top of that just to calm down and get some rest. Under previous conditions 2 mg was always enough at bedtime to induce sleep. Now that my meds have stabilized I am coming off the Ativan. But this time the best rate I can do is 1% every 7 days. A lot slower. I just thought this might give others a feel for the addictiveness of Ativan. Keep in mind this is one mans experience and will probably differ from person to person.

[FiveNotions]

Thanks for posting that, Fishinghat. You are a remarkable person, to live through all that you have, and to use your experience (suffering) to help others! And it's wonderful that you're able to get off the Ativan again ... I'm math-challenged ... at your current rate, about how long will it take you to do this?

 

Because of what you'd shared about lorazepam elsewhere here, last month when I got hit with the anxiety big-time, I knew enough to tell my clinic shrink that I did not want to be on it any longer. He had given me just about 10 pills, which I'd used over the course of about 4 months, and he wanted to write me an rx for daily use at higher doses. I said absolutely no, and so he gave me diazepam .... still a benzo, but the long half-life makes all the difference ...

 

As I've mentioned before, it took me 2 years to get off of Xanax... the doc I had at that time never told me it could be addictive (and I was too naïve back then to check on things myself), and he kept writing rxs for higher doses, until finally it was "take as needed" ... I had no clue about calculated dose reduction like you've explained ... so I just scraped a tiny bit off of each pill ... and had to hold at each of those reduction levels for at least a week, before I could scrape off a bit more from the next few pills ... somehow managed to do this while holding down a job ...

[fishinghat]

At this rate about another year and a couple months. Am already down 20%. Got to do what you got to do.

[DoneWithCrap]

I have been on Ativan and or Klonopin for the past 14years. My prescriber increases my dose as I build up a tolerance for it until I get to 2mg a day. Once that is no longer affective, I taper off on and onto the other. Nobody will let me get dependent on more than 2 mg a day due to an "incident " I had with stock pilling that turned out bad. I'm pretty sure that the dose I'm currently taking is not helping me at this point but I want to get off my meds, not build up a higher tolerance for it.
I will do what I need to do to taper off the cymbalta first. Even if that means not reducing the anti anxiety meds for now.
Unless anybody has tapered both at the same time?... I don't know what would be best.

[gail]

Renée, cymbalta first please. You will need the benzo to get you through this ordeal.

 

At this point, do not think about reducing the anti anx med.

 

Cymbalta withdrawal cause a lot of havoc, forget about tapering benzos.

 

One thing at a time. Do what you have to do to get you through this, even if it means upping the benzos.

 

Bon dimanche!

[thismoment]

ReneeRJ

 

Gail said it all, and I totally agree with her.

[fishinghat]

Well I recently dropped 1% more on the Ativan to being 20% off. Normally in 6 or 7 days I am ready to drop again. It has been 14 days and instead of being able to make another drop I find my self flooded with constant panic. I am going to up my hydroxyzine from 200 mg to 300 mg/day. we will see what happens. The good point is that my 'benzo fatigue' has definitely improved.

 

ReneeRJ

 

The drs do the same thing here with altering benzos. In my case though I have never needed to stay on a benzo for more than a few months before my other meds are adjusted and I can come off the benzo. The Cymbalta withdrawal was different I developed a total fear (24/7) that was so bad I slept in the corner of my bedroom in the fetal position with the lights on. Even 6 mg a day of Ativan hardly dented it. Over the next few months my dr tried 6 different meds to try and handle the constant fear. Non worked. I finally had to go back on an ssri. I was left with these other worthless drugs to come off of. That took some months to do that. By the time I got around to coming off the Ativan I had been on it over a year. There really wasn't much else to do in this situation. The dr didn't want me to worry about the Ativan while I was still suffering from the constant fear. His main effort at that time was to find a drug that worked. Now I am left to put things back together. By the way he did try valium and Xanax to see if they could help. No effect there either.

[TryinginFL]

FH...

 

Thank you so much for sharing and helping so many...

 

I find your information so uplifting and honest that I am in awe.

 

God Bless

[FiveNotions]

Fishinghat, you are a gift from God to us all ... and you are in my daily prayers!

[DoneWithCrap]

Thank you so much for all your help. The more I learn here the more I realize that my irrattic med schedule is harming me.

The way my benzo is prescribed is 1 to 2 tabs at bed.
I am always in such a daze that I have no concept of time. I take my night meds before I go to sleep. Problem is I'm afraide to sleep so I put off taking my night meds until it is so late that I convince myself that I need to sleep before my kids wake up. So say I need to wake at 6am and I realize that it is 4am and I haven't taken my night meds yet, I will take only a half tab of benzo and half a tab of trazidone along with the non psych stuff.
I will get 2 hours of sleep, wake up and take care of the kids and if I remember, I'll take my morning meds then lie on the couch playing Sudoko or candy crush for a couple hours. If I forgot to take my morning meds I will usually figure it out when I'm outside smoking and can't breathe... Like gee why can't I breathe? Oh yeah, I didn't take my meds.. Then I usually remember as soon as I go in the house. Unless between the front door and the kitchen counter where I keep my meds, I see something I need to do and do that instead...until the next time I smoke...
Some days I forget my morning meds all day. I don't notice anything until the next day when the brain zaps start. This leads me to realize I need to straighten out my schedule so that night I will take my full dose of meds of 2 tabs benzo and 2 tabs of trazidone .

No wonder I'm in a constant state of mental and physical distress. I can only blame myself.
I need to stop this roller coaster of withdrawl from not only cymbalta but also benzos.

What a mess I am!

[DoneWithCrap]

On the positive side, I counted the balls in one tab and had 300 balls. I decided to decrease by 10% and removed 30 balls and saved them. I then took my meds with the 270 balls. This took me several hours so I took them at around 2pm. I looked up where to buy blank gel caps and will have my husband order some for me.
I will take my full strength night meds at 12am! I know that is late but it is early for me. I'm going to get on a regular sleep schedule and take my meds at the same time every day. My therapist has been telling me to do this for years and I will do it now!

I need to take charge of my life

I will also eat at least twice a day. baby steps as I have no appetite and when I do eat, I get nauseous.
I rely on my iPhone to alert me of all my appointments. I will add alerts for taking meds, eating and sleeping.

Feeling optimistic

[TryinginFL]

Out of "likes" again, but wonderful post Renee!

 

You WILL get it together - just posting about it means you are on the right track!

 

Please keep us updated...

[fishinghat]

Well Renee what can I say about your sleep habits you didn't already say?!!   lol

Keeping a set and standard schedule for sleep and meds is very critical for success. You have a long way to go so you might as well start with fixing that!!

 

By the way a 10% drop is a little harsh. If it comes back to bite you. I usually suggest starting low, say 3% and working up from there to find your limits.

 

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[ShadyLady]

Hi, Renee...thank you for such an honest post;) as it describes so much of me that I am unable to express in words or for that matter, even admit to myself!! Today is my 44th day off the C-crack & some symptoms of cold turkey are better while other new ones seem to crop up! I have not read your posts yet to know the meds you are currently taking...I cannot sleep for longer than 1 1/2 to 2 hours at night & am suffering from severe leg/arm nerve pain. The combo is driving me CRAZY!! I read so many posts about others suffering from anxiety but that, so far:/ has not plagued me in withdrawal. I am taking 1mg of Xanax at bedtime & 10/325 mg of Percocet as needed for pain associated with fibro/cfs & cervical disc issues from a laminectomy 21 yrs ago fusing C4,5 & 6. I am only taking 2 Percs a day though I am prescribed up to 5 as needed & the X's are prescribed up to 3 1/2 x a day of which I have never taken more than the 1mg & rarely 1/2 when an anxiety attack would creep up. My mental clarity is much better at this stage but the logic is shot!! I want to be off all meds but am suffering severely in that quest!!

The long and short of my rambling is simply to thank you for posting as it helped me & I am learning on this site from others before me & those joining after me through their personal struggles & triumphs of stopping the biggest brain killer of all, the Cymcrack!!

[FiveNotions]

Awesome posts, Renee! You've got a good focus and clarity starting already ... one thing at a time... and I agree, the sleep schedule and the med schedule are key. They're closely linked, and I think you're right to work on them together and first. Just be patient with yourself, as it'll take some time and practice to get settled in with new patterns and behavior.

Early on in my withdrawal, I was having a lot of trouble with my sleep schedule/habits. Fishinghat posted a memo on this topic, and it helped me tremendously... do you still have that FH, and if so, would you share that again?

[fishinghat]

Yea I do FN. It is on a different computer so I will post it tomorrow.

[DoneWithCrap]

Ok. I set the alert and took my meds. I really don't understand why this is so hard for me. I hate this!

[DoneWithCrap]

I got 6 hours of sleep last night!
I'm ready for a new day.
(1) remove my balls (hehehe)
(2) echocardiogram
(3) therapy

And back home by noon time.
This just might work
Thank you all for your support!

[fishinghat]

Well no can do on attaching the file. Max size allowed is 12.48 KB and this file is 54 KB. Sorry.

 

 

[TryinginFL]

Renee...

 

 

Hope your morning went well...

[fishinghat]

Well I am going to try again on the sleep document.

 

[attachment=44:How to Sleep Better.txt]

 

I know it is hard to read but it is the only way I could get it to post. Sorry

[thismoment]

fishinghat

 

It's a good document; thank you for posting it.

 

Sleep, as part of the recovery strategy is easily overlooked especially if we're off work and don't really have to get up on time. Once I got back on track with a regular sleep schedule, I really started to feel better. It was difficult to tell which came first- sleep schedule then feeling better, or feeling better then the sleep schedule followed. In any case, they go together.

[DoneWithCrap]

Thank you TFL. My morning went well until noon. Then I crashed. Migraine, akathisia and muscle weakness. I couldn't lift my water bottle with my right arm.
Today was a bit better. Less pain but my muscles still want to do their own thing in I get a terrible tremmor that affects my head,neck and legs.

One dat st a time I ....

[Cinders]

Hi Everyone,
I was visiting my daughter in Colorado for a week and haven't kept up with the forum. It's good to be back and learning from y'all. It was great to see her and meet her new friends, but OMG I had such a hard time keeping up with all the activities she had planned. I mostly felt wrung out and slept until 2pm one day! Sorry to be graphic, but diarrhea was a problem most of the time I was there. In some ways, I wish I had delayed the visit until after I get over Cymbalta, but fortunately, my daughter was very understanding and although I wasn't a ball of fire, I didn't spend whole days in bed, as I was doing at home. I did hold off on further Cymbalta dose reduction after the day I was sleeping until 2pm, so my withdrawal schedule is delayed by about a week. I hope it was worth it to be able to see my daughter. I think it was?

I mentioned previously that I'm taking benzodiazepines (lorazepam or diazepam) and a 10 mg daily dose of Prozac to try softening the hideous side effects I am experiencing. I think I'm feeling somewhat better with the Prozac on board and so far, am willing to keep taking it while weaning off Cymbalta. The benzodiazepines help with the horrific sweating problem, but I hate how tired they make me and try to go without as long as possible. The minimum dose of Lorazepam that works for me is one mg; I tried breaking the pill in half a couple times but ended up taking the second half every time. I'm using a five mg dose of Diazepam. The lorazepam seems to be more effective in controlling the heavy sweating.

Part of me is so sick and disgusted that I am taking these additional medications to control Cymbalta withdrawal side effects. I am angry that I will then have to taper off those additional drugs! It feels like I'll be tapering off something for the rest of my life and I will never know who I am at baseline. This ALMOST tempts me to go cold turkey, but so far, my fear of going cold turkey keeps me tapering because I am feeling slightly less awful than I did when I was taking 50 mg Cymbalta one day and 30 mg the next; alternating days like that was just too powerful a swing for me.

At times, I wish I could just be put into an induced coma, wash the drugs out cold turkey and wake up when "it's over". I hate the way I feel physically and mentally. I just want out!

Sorry for whining so bitterly. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.
Thanks for listening

[fishinghat]

Glad to hear you are back Cinders and still hanging in there!!

[TryinginFL]

Hey Cinders!  I hope that I welcomed you when you first started with us, but if I didn't, Welcome!

 

I'm sure visiting your daughter was wonderful - I feel the same when I visit one of my boys, but have never done so under the whole getting off the crap thing. 

 

I understand your feeling about taking meds to get off a med but I was and still am on Hydrocodone (for break-through pain from fibro and arthritis) and Alprazolam for the anxiety.  At this point, I don't feel badly about staying on them if that is what is necessary.  I have been off the crap for almost 7 months.  The only other meds I take are for blood pressure and have managed to get off of Trazodone as well. 

 

I would also love to be put into a coma and awakened when it's all over!  Due to being one of the "older" ones here, I realize that is the reason that this has been taking so long, in addition to going cold turkey which was a bear.

 

Please hang on and keep us posted - happy to have you back!

 

Liz