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#31 kathyms3150

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    Trying to cope with withdrawal/discontinuation. Have depression and anxiety since my teens.

Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

FN, I agree that more women are put on these drugs because we're not afraid to go to a doctor and vent. With me though my depression was just there for no reason. There wasn't any issue that brought it on.


#32 fishinghat

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:25 PM

Kathy, that ledge of fear (I like that term) occurs to nearly everyone during the withdrawal as does the feeling it will last for ever.

 

There ARE medicines that help while withdrawing. There are three major ones to try.

 

Clonidine -

Clonidine is a classic bp med BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha antagonist which means it stimulated alpha adrenaline synapses. These synapses are located in the frontal lobes of the brain and are used to control the amount of adrenaline our body produces. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a per son get to sleep and stay a sleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little daytime drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it ( one or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos.

 

Benzos like Ativan, Xanax and valium. The Ativan is the most effective against anxiety but is also the most addictive. If you are only on it a few months then coming off isn't too bad. There is also Xanax and valium. These are weaker benzos than Ativan but also less addictive.

 

Lastly, hydroxyzine. It is very effective against anxiety in most people but many get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal.

 

Any of these can be considered as very helpful with the withdrawal. Discuss these with your dr. Just a side note. Drs love prescribing benzos even though they are addictive. All three of these medicines start working within the first few hours after taking them. They can bring you quick relief from your symptoms.


#33 kathyms3150

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:02 PM

Hi FH,  I am taking Klonopin, but it only helps so much and I know it's addictive. I also have Hydroxyzine which makes me sleepy, but doesn't really help with anxiety. I've never heard of Clonidine, but just looked it up. It sounds like it may be a good medication, since it seems to help with several symptoms I have including restlessness, hot and cold flushes, rapid heartbeat. It said it's also used to help people going through narcotic withdrawal. The only thing I didn't like is that it said it can cause withdrawal if stopped quickly. That kind of scares me, but I will ask my doctor about it. Thanks so much for the info.


#34 Carleeta

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

I've been off the Cymbalta about 3 weeks and am having a really horrible day today. I'm so achy, sick to my stomach, dizzy and anxious. I have this panicked feeling that this caused permanent brain damage and will never go away. Can someone please give me some hope. Thanks.


Kathyms3150. Your feelings are absolutely normal. You are fearing the worse, and please try and not do this, because we all had/have the same exact feeling are you. We definitely do understand exactly what you are going through. You keep that faint whisper in your ear, you write it down on a piece of paper and put it on every mirror in your home just as a reminder. Eventually, this whisper will become louder and you will hear it all the time.

There are wonderful members here which you have already encountered and we certainly do care. Just shoot out a post on a thread, and shout if you have to and poof, we will be here.

Thoughts and prayers to you....

#35 fishinghat

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

Hey Kathy don't worry about the clonidine withdrawal. It is used to treat high blood pressure so when it stops your pulse increase, bp goes up and your heart pounds but if you cut it 25% each week for 4 weeks it is hardly noticeable. Definitely not like Cymbalta.

 

The hydroxyzine surprises me. We have had a rash of people on here lately who have had no response to it for anxiety. Just to check the minimum dose for anxiety is 50 mg four times per day. The drowsiness is an issue for about 2 weeks til your body gets use to it.


#36 brzghoff

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:28 PM

brgzhoff,  I totally get what you're saying, but I'm still afraid I'll be one of the people who never recover. Can you please explain what you mean about his article about not drug related withdrawal triggers to their anxiety, sorry my head is in such a fog. If only we knew for sure this will go away.

kathy, challenge what you are telling yourself! you worry you are one of those who won't recover. what evidence do you have to suggest that? why you? why not "worry" about becoming one of those who DO recover? 

 

as to anxiety being related to withdrawal or not… his experience was that in many of the cases of continued anxiety after coming off an ssri (like prozac or zoloft) or snri (like effexor or cymbalta) an additional factor in their anxiety was preexisting factors such as post traumatic stress syndrome - non just related to the drug. the withdrawal made it worse, but other unresolved circumstances such as a previous trauma was also a factor. does that make sense? if you aren't seeing one already, find a good therapist who can help you develop solid cognitive skills to help you get through this. that's what i have done and am doing now. those strategies are very effective in dealing with anxiety  will make a world of difference.

 

please understand that how you feel is normal. it feels terrible, but its normal. it does NOT mean you will be like this for the rest of your life. there is no evidence of that. as i mentioned before, dr shipko sees the ones who are having trouble with withdrawal, for all we know there are many more who got through it with flying colors. people who are not sick don't go to the doctor. they usually don't post on forums such as this. 

 

 

 

 


#37 thismoment

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

Kathy, I'm convinced that's one of the reasons why so many more women are put on antidepressants and similar meds than men ... we go to the doc, and "vent" all  our emotions ... rational and irrational ... and the only way they know of to get us to shut up is to just put us on a drug and get us the hell out of their offices ... ;)

FN

 

You've touched on one of the critical differences between men and women- a difference that usually leads to frustration between these genders: A woman needs to vent! She needs to replay the day's events and provide accompanying commentary. She doesn't want you to fix it-  she just wants you to shut the fuck up and listen! The man wants to fix it; he'll offer repair and maintenance strategies, shoulda-saids and why didn'tyas. This just pisses her off because she wants steady ears from a dear friend, not flapping lips from a bloody know-it-all therapist!

 

And so it is with physicians- they take the role of the gotta-fix-it-male and start writing prescriptions when they should be asking themselves, "Is this an earnest request for medical intervention, or is this a human being asking for a little understanding and compassion?"


#38 kathyms3150

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:49 PM

Kathyms3150. Your feelings are absolutely normal. You are fearing the worse, and please try and not do this, because we all had/have the same exact feeling are you. We definitely do understand exactly what you are going through. You keep that faint whisper in your ear, you write it down on a piece of paper and put it on every mirror in your home just as a reminder. Eventually, this whisper will become louder and you will hear it all the time.

There are wonderful members here which you have already encountered and we certainly do care. Just shoot out a post on a thread, and shout if you have to and poof, we will be here.

Thoughts and prayers to you....

Hi Carleeta,  I see that you're in New York. I'm originally from New York and miss it.  Thanks for sending encouragement and letting me know that my feelings are normal. How I wish I could keep that faint whisper that things will get better. It's so hard because I seem to be feeling worse instead of better.  Can you please tell me how long you've been off Cymbalta and how you're doing. Thanks.


#39 kathyms3150

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:02 PM

Hey Kathy don't worry about the clonidine withdrawal. It is used to treat high blood pressure so when it stops your pulse increase, bp goes up and your heart pounds but if you cut it 25% each week for 4 weeks it is hardly noticeable. Definitely not like Cymbalta.

 

The hydroxyzine surprises me. We have had a rash of people on here lately who have had no response to it for anxiety. Just to check the minimum dose for anxiety is 50 mg four times per day. The drowsiness is an issue for about 2 weeks til your body gets use to it.

Hi FH,  I got my doctor to prescribe the Clonodine today. I'm going to take it in a little while but honestly I'm scared to. I don't want any bad reaction and I'm also afraid that it won't help with the anxiety. Then I'll feel like now what do I do.                                                  My doctor told me to take 25 mgs of the hydroxyzine at bedtime so I guess it wasn't enough, but I didn't like how it made me feel the next day, very out of it but still anxious.                                                                                                                             It's been over 3 weeks since I'm off the Cymbalta and I feel worse. Aside from the horrible anxiety I ache so bad. Do you think this is normal?


#40 kathyms3150

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:22 PM

kathy, challenge what you are telling yourself! you worry you are one of those who won't recover. what evidence do you have to suggest that? why you? why not "worry" about becoming one of those who DO recover? 

 

as to anxiety being related to withdrawal or not… his experience was that in many of the cases of continued anxiety after coming off an ssri (like prozac or zoloft) or snri (like effexor or cymbalta) an additional factor in their anxiety was preexisting factors such as post traumatic stress syndrome - non just related to the drug. the withdrawal made it worse, but other unresolved circumstances such as a previous trauma was also a factor. does that make sense? if you aren't seeing one already, find a good therapist who can help you develop solid cognitive skills to help you get through this. that's what i have done and am doing now. those strategies are very effective in dealing with anxiety  will make a world of difference.

 

please understand that how you feel is normal. it feels terrible, but its normal. it does NOT mean you will be like this for the rest of your life. there is no evidence of that. as i mentioned before, dr shipko sees the ones who are having trouble with withdrawal, for all we know there are many more who got through it with flying colors. people who are not sick don't go to the doctor. they usually don't post on forums such as this. 

Hi brzghoff,  I think part of the reason I feel like I'll be one of the people who don't recover is that I've had some really bad things happen in my life the past few years. The worst was losing my daughter Kate in a car accident, she was my only child. Then a few months later I was diagnosed with a rare bone cancer. It just has me in a negative state of thinking.                                                    Okay, now I understand better about the continued anxiety after stopping the drug. The things I mentioned could be factors, plus aside from having depression I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I will consider seeing a therapist when I'm feeling better. I have been in therapy before but didn't find it helpful though.  I think I'll be better off not reading anything by Shipko.


#41 fishinghat

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:47 AM

Kathy, absolutely normal. The 3rd and 4th week are hell and then typically you start getting breaks ocassionally. The improvements are slow but at least there are signs of hope. Sorry the hydroxyzine didn't help. The clonidine has a high success rate so hopefully it will kick in soon. God bless.


#42 kathyms3150

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:11 AM

Hi FH,  I took the clonidine last night and it did take the edge off the anxiety, but when I woke up this morning the anxiety was back and I feel a little drowsy. Do you know if the clonidine will work better the longer I take it?  For now I can only take it at night until my doctor is sure it isn't lowering my bp too much. I worry every waking moment that I won't get better, it's driving me insane. I also don't know what to do as far as meds. I'm terrified of them now and don't want to take them, but I know from past experience that I can't make it without them. I've never had a problem getting off meds before but now I'm afraid they'll all cause me to have withdrawal if I come off of them. I'm on Brintellix, it's not helping yet, I don't know if I should stay on it or not. I'm terrified.


#43 brzghoff

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:18 AM

Hi brzghoff,  I think part of the reason I feel like I'll be one of the people who don't recover is that I've had some really bad things happen in my life the past few years. The worst was losing my daughter Kate in a car accident, she was my only child. Then a few months later I was diagnosed with a rare bone cancer. It just has me in a negative state of thinking.                                                    Okay, now I understand better about the continued anxiety after stopping the drug. The things I mentioned could be factors, plus aside from having depression I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I will consider seeing a therapist when I'm feeling better. I have been in therapy before but didn't find it helpful though.  I think I'll be better off not reading anything by Shipko.

 

Hi brzghoff,  I think part of the reason I feel like I'll be one of the people who don't recover is that I've had some really bad things happen in my life the past few years. The worst was losing my daughter Kate in a car accident, she was my only child. Then a few months later I was diagnosed with a rare bone cancer. It just has me in a negative state of thinking.                                                    Okay, now I understand better about the continued anxiety after stopping the drug. The things I mentioned could be factors, plus aside from having depression I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I will consider seeing a therapist when I'm feeling better. I have been in therapy before but didn't find it helpful though.  I think I'll be better off not reading anything by Shipko.

 

 

Kathy,

 

I am so sorry to learn abut the loss of your daughter. i cannot even begin to imagine what that must be like. my heart goes out to you. additionally having the cancer diagnosis on top of that i can understand why you feel such anxiety and are terrified. how long ago did you receive that diagnosis?  are you still in treatment , is it in remission? certainly that has had a tremendous impact on your mental health. however, it doesn't have to be a predictor of your future off of cymbalta. i will add discontinuing or transitioning to another drug isn't for everyone. you mentioned the brintellix. as with most anti-d's i suspect it will take a few weeks before it kicks in, and then even longer to be totally effective. a transition from cymbalta to brintellix with ramping down on one while concurrently ramping up on the other is traditionally how p-docs manage meds to minimize withdrawals from the one you're dropping. is that how your has prescribed your meds?

 

please work on behavioral strategies on changing what you are telling yourself so you don't focus on"worrying every waking moment" that you won't get better. it sounds as though your anxiety is being fueled by the past traumas in your life - which is totally understandable, but something that you can work on with a therapist. nothing is instantaneous - just know that it will not last forever. 

 

i wish i could find the web site i found with a good description, but a great technique i use is sensory mindfulness. focus on one of your five senses, like sound. just listen to all the sounds around you, , don't judge them, just let them come and go and be aware of them. do that for 5-10 minutes, then switch to a different sense, sight - notice all the imgaes before you, again, don't judge them, just notice them and be aware - you can do the same with touch , taste - chew something flavorful like chocolate, savor it, note the subtleties. the idea is to take your focus away from the intrusive thoughts. same with focusing on your breath, in out, full but normal breathing. don't hyperventilate. just feel your breath go in and out, no judgement. it takes practice. i work on it ALL the time, so when the anxiety isn't as strong, it is easier and it can become a habit. you stay in the present. we can't live in tomorrow, it only comes as today. we can't live in the past, its already gone no matter what - you can only live in the present so that is what you want to experience. these techniques definitely work, but it takes practice.

 

please keep in touch here so we know how you are doing - and to reap all the support that is available to you here. 


#44 fishinghat

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:58 PM

Yea it works better with time. You have a smart dr. By starting you on it at night only it gives your body a chance to adjust to the drowsiness it causes some. And like you said it gives him a chance to be sure your  bp doesn't drop (which is verey unusual). After a couple weeks he will then start you on a morning dose. Clonidine has an 11 hr half life. So if you were to take one at 8 am then by 8 pm you would still have roughly 1/2 left in your blood. When you take that one at 8 pm it adds to that and it slowly build up in your blood. It only takes 3 or 4 days to level off. I think you will be pleased with it.


#45 kathyms3150

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:10 AM

Hi brzghoff, Thank you for your kind words. No parent should ever have to bury a child. The grief is unimaginable. Kate was the joy of my life. Honestly I think losing Kate may be part of the reason the Cymbalta stopped working. Then a few months later having cancer added more stress. It's been almost 5 years since I was diagnosed with the cancer. I went through 12 hours of surgery and it took close to 2 years before I was able to walk, although I can't walk well. Losing my mobility definitely didn't help my mood. I'm not in treatment, chemo wasn't considered to be effective for my cancer.

 

Putting me on Brintellix  to help with withdrawal is part of the reason I'm on it, but I've struggled with major depression and anxiety most of my life. I need something to help me and therapy never did. But, I'm so afraid of being on meds now, I don't know what to do. If the Brintellix doesn't work will I have withdrawal coming off it, or will it make my withdrawal from the Cymbalta worse. These thoughts constantly swirl through my head and I'm in a panic. If I could I would go to a therapist to try and help me with this fear but I'm so sick. My husband and I went out for a walk yesterday and after a few minutes I felt like I was going to pass out and had to come back home. I need a way to stop this fear and panic. It's got such a hold on me. I'll try doing the sensory mindfulness. The one thing I can't focus on though is my breathing, it causes me to panic more. Thanks so much.


#46 kathyms3150

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:13 AM

Hi FH, I really hope the clonidine works better with time. My anxiety is so bad, and I find my sleeping is getting worse. My blood pressure is on the low side to begin with so I hope this doesn't drop it too much. I'm so scared and need help.


#47 fishinghat

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:44 PM

I think it will be helpful once your dr puts you on 2 tablets a day. That will allow it to build up in your system in a few days. And absolutely keep an eye on your blood pressure!! If you don't have a bp cuff you need to pick one up.


#48 kathyms3150

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:29 PM

I think it will be helpful once your dr puts you on 2 tablets a day. That will allow it to build up in your system in a few days. And absolutely keep an eye on your blood pressure!! If you don't have a bp cuff you need to pick one up.

I sure hope so FH. Are you on any meds?  If not how do you function with depression?


#49 fishinghat

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:08 AM

Well Kathy I am on enough meds to single-handedly keep a pharmacy in business!!  lol  My issue is not depression however but anxiety. My key meds are zoloft, clonidine, hydroxyzine, atenolol, buspar and lorazepam and am currently weaning of the lorazepam. Too many meds for sure.


#50 kathyms3150

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:12 AM

FH,  So you know how bad the anxiety is, sorry you have it. I have both anxiety and depression. I think I was under the impression that those on this forum weren't on meds after they got off Cymbalta and I couldn't understand how people managed without any meds.


#51 brzghoff

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:21 AM

FH,  So you know how bad the anxiety is, sorry you have it. I have both anxiety and depression. I think I was under the impression that those on this forum weren't on meds after they got off Cymbalta and I couldn't understand how people managed without any meds.

 

Oh no! most everyone here - if not everyone -  is on other psych meds of one kind or another, but just in the process of weaning off or having already discontinued cymbalta. what we have in common are the symptoms associated with the withdrawal and/or discontinuation. for me, i also take lamictal as a mood stabilizer. i'd like to get off that someday as well - but one step at a time. i can wait on that one. 


#52 FiveNotions

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:19 PM

Oh heavens, Kathy, no .... as brzghoff says ... we're not "med free" ... we're "Cymbalta free" ... or working on getting to that point ... I still take Wellbutrin for depression ... and now clonidine for anxiety... which is working great for me, by the way ... and, I was on valium/diazepam for a month or so, but don't seem to need it now cuz of the clonidine .... but I most certainly have a bottle "in reserve" just in case ...

 

likewise, an awful lot of us (myself included) are in therapy and/or using other alternative therapies ... to work through / manage all the issues that got us on the Cymbalta and the other meds in the first place ...

 

We've all determined that, for whatever of the many (or all) reasons, Cymbalta was doing us more harm than good ...


#53 Carleeta

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:35 PM

Kathy...Do not worry about the meds you are on. There are definitely times in our lives when we NEED to be on meds for one reason or another. There is nothing wrong with being on meds to help up live as much of a 'quality of life' as we can.

Truthfully, there are more members here on others meds than not.

True no parent should out live their child/children. This is a horrible emotion to deal with and I see you are letting these emotions out here on the forum and this is wonderful. When my sister passed away I witnessed what my parents went through and it was devastating for them and for her children.

We understand your pain, and are here for you at any time...

Prayers and thoughts to you...

#54 thismoment

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:56 PM

Kathy

It's all about quality of life. And as the diabetic cannot live without insulin, so the person suffering from anxiety can't live without appropriate medication. We are about the C Word first and foremost.

But of course working to be free of Cymbalta opens the broader conversation that includes the hazards of psychiatric drugs, Informed Consent, and the education of physicians. Big Pharma has great influence which extends to- but is not limited to- government, media, and the creation and publication of 'research'. Big Pharma's power also extends to influencing the content of some medical textbooks- with their own products recommended as treatment.

Many of us were fed these toxic drugs not because they were an appropriate solution for our ailment, but rather because they were expertly marketed to us and especially to our physicians.


#55 kathyms3150

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:40 PM

I want to say thank you to everyone who posted about being on meds. You have helped to ease my mind on that issue. I thought that I was weak for not being able to fight my depression and anxiety without meds. God bless and help us all.


#56 kathyms3150

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:01 PM

Kathy...Do not worry about the meds you are on. There are definitely times in our lives when we NEED to be on meds for one reason or another. There is nothing wrong with being on meds to help up live as much of a 'quality of life' as we can.

Truthfully, there are more members here on others meds than not.

True no parent should out live their child/children. This is a horrible emotion to deal with and I see you are letting these emotions out here on the forum and this is wonderful. When my sister passed away I witnessed what my parents went through and it was devastating for them and for her children.

We understand your pain, and are here for you at any time...

Prayers and thoughts to you...

Carleeta, As much as I hate meds, especially now since going through the Cymbalta withdrawal, you're right, unfortunately we need them to improve the quality of our lives.                                                                                                                                                                 Outliving a child is unbearable. I often say there are no words in our language to express what it does to a parent. A Mom that I knew online lost her son and recently took her own life. Even if I didn't have depression, everyday since losing my Kate is a struggle to survive. My faith that I'll be with her again is the only keeping me going. I'm so very sorry for the loss of your sister. I know the devastation your family is going through. My heart goes out to all of you. Thank you for sharing that with me. Sending hugs and prayers to you too. <3


#57 kathyms3150

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:14 PM

Oh heavens, Kathy, no .... as brzghoff says ... we're not "med free" ... we're "Cymbalta free" ... or working on getting to that point ... I still take Wellbutrin for depression ... and now clonidine for anxiety... which is working great for me, by the way ... and, I was on valium/diazepam for a month or so, but don't seem to need it now cuz of the clonidine .... but I most certainly have a bottle "in reserve" just in case ...

 

likewise, an awful lot of us (myself included) are in therapy and/or using other alternative therapies ... to work through / manage all the issues that got us on the Cymbalta and the other meds in the first place ...

 

We've all determined that, for whatever of the many (or all) reasons, Cymbalta was doing us more harm than good ...

FN, I'm so glad that the Clonodine is working good for you. I totally understand about you having a bottle of Valium "in reserve" just in case. That feeling of having anxiety and not having anything to get some relief is terrifying.                                                                       I have an appointment next week with a new doctor for a second opinion on meds and I also want to see if she has any suggestions to help with the withdrawal, although I don't expect her to.    I wish there was something we could do to warn people about Cymbalta.


#58 Carleeta

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:34 AM

Kathy, If I may ask...Are you reading any of the grieving books you may have received after the passing of your daughter.  Mine came in the mail every two months from the funeral home where services were held for my parents.  These books at first I thought were just books telling me things will take time.  Oh was I wrong; they were absolutely right on target for everything I was going through.  Recently I lost a very close friend and his wife is my best friend.  On his passing, and living out of state, I had sent a basked filled with cheese, crackers, chocolates, teas, fruit, and etc.  well there was also a grieving book which struck me to send this exact basket.  To  my surprise, she called me last night and stated this book has saved her sanity....She also explained it was a book is for every day of the year and what you experience and daily verses, and the beauty of things also.  It's not a religious book, it's just a book with quotes from others and delightful thoughts to get through the day.  It came across my mind to see If, besides therapy, you might be reading something like this or thinking about reading something of this nature.  You might find some peace even if it's a little.  Prayers and hugs to you....


#59 TryinginFL

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

These books sound wonderful, Carleeta.  I think they may have been a great help to me when my daughter died 5 years ago.  I don't remember receiving anything like this.  Perhaps it is not too late to seek these out - possibly I have not completely worked through my grief.  I know it will be a topic for my next therapy session when I return home.

 

My oldest son is the Major Donations Officer at the Woodland Park Zoo here in Seattle and there is a beautiful octagonal bench that was constructed in my daughter's memory which has a plaque  with her information on it.  I hope to see it again when I get back to Seattle next Wed.  That is the last day that I will be here before I return to FL. 

 

Thanks for your kind information...


#60 Carleeta

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

These books sound wonderful, Carleeta.  I think they may have been a great help to me when my daughter died 5 years ago.  I don't remember receiving anything like this.  Perhaps it is not too late to seek these out - possibly I have not completely worked through my grief.  I know it will be a topic for my next therapy session when I return home.

 

My oldest son is the Major Donations Officer at the Woodland Park Zoo here in Seattle and there is a beautiful octagonal bench that was constructed in my daughter's memory which has a plaque  with her information on it.  I hope to see it again when I get back to Seattle next Wed.  That is the last day that I will be here before I return to FL. 

 

Thanks for your kind information...

TryinginFl, Oh how I understand things more clearly now, these  books are wonderful.  Mine were small pamphlets which I received every two months which seemed to correspond to the timing and what I was feeling or not feeling.  Yes, it's very possible you have not grieved or it is a delayed reaction of grief.  How wonderful to hear they constructed such a beautiful octagonal bench in your daughter's memory.  This might just be what you need, to see this special bench.  It might just bring the relief you need and the comfort you've been longing for.  It's been quite a journey for you these past 5 years, and our journey's never end, they sometimes just take different paths and we get lost until we find the right path again...  

 

Keep checking the weather report.. Will the laptop be going with to Hawaii...Your son better take it....lol lol lol.  We are here to help you through all of this....that's if you need us....lol lol





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