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#1 thismoment

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:21 PM

WORST CRAP I EVER TRIED!!

 

 

 

The most destabilizing and debilitating emotion is fear. Fear leaps into your chest-- a monster within-- grasping, teeth and claws; fear makes babes of warriors. The threat may be real: a Grizzly Bear appears in front of you on a remote trail in the Rockies; a shadow slides across the wall in the bedroom; a white van speeds down the street and your 4-year-old little girl is no longer on the lawn. 

 

The threat may be imagined, or it may be dreamed: you're at home alone reading a Stephen King novel, it's midnight and there's a storm brewing. Suddenly you get a chill and your mind runs away and your heart begins to pound. Or you leap bolt-upright in bed in the grip of a horrible nightmare! You're covered in sweat, heart pounding, panting, eyes searching.

 

Fear can rise from either a real, an imagined, or a dreamed threat-- your mind can't tell the difference. If it knew the difference it would only react to the real threat. We can accept this fact because it has been with us since birth, "Oh thank God that wasn't real!"

 

But then there's anxiety.

 

Anxiety arrives in the centre of our being without an apparent source-- it just rises, a serpent out of placid water. It doesn't feel external, it's you. It renders confidence into quicksand and the aria of bravado into a whimper. It's the singularity of death suspended; you are it and it is you. Everything is lost! Every anxiety attack puts you back to square one. The anxiety sufferer is in a constant state of emotional re-construction.

 

"Maybe . . . there is a beast . . .

What I mean is . . . maybe it's only us."    

William Golding, Lord of the Flies

 

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain"

Frank Herbert, Dune

 

Kids, keep your anxiety down; it's the first priority. 


#2 FiveNotions

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

This is a saying I like to repeat to myself when in the midst of anxiety ...

“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
John Wayne

...Problem is, just as I'm "saddling up" the horse always seems to poop on me ....

#3 fishinghat

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:45 PM

I understand the "constant state of emotional re-construction". Always working to get to a place I can not get to. Where am I trying to get too? A place a little bit better than where I am now.


#4 gail

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:06 PM

But then there's anxiety.

 

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain"

Frank Herbert, Dune

 

Kids, keep your anxiety down; it's the first priority. 

 

Only I will remain! I like to remind myself, What's left when there is nothing left? and that is my answer, the I Am. Only I will remain!

 

And the I Am is the eye of the hurricane, very calm.


#5 gail

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:09 PM

I understand the "constant state of emotional re-construction". Always working to get to a place I can not get to. Where am I trying to get too? A place a little bit better than where I am now.

 

Out of likes again. Loved this statement.


#6 brzghoff

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:35 PM

I understand the "constant state of emotional re-construction". Always working to get to a place I can not get to. Where am I trying to get too? A place a little bit better than where I am now.

 

its so true... below i am re-posting what i put in the "negative" events in a response to clara. it is truly something that has been working for me based upon fear/anxiety

 

the mind can be merciless. in an earlier post you said "Scared of being anxious, scared of being depressed, scared of being unhealthy, scared of being scared! "  i can so relate to that. the fear or fear! kinda like what FDR said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" exactly. i know he wasn't talking about cymbalta withdrawal - but he could have been! once fear and anxiety has taken hold, its hard to forget. sometimes the anxiety is low enough that its easy to tune out, but then i'll let down my defenses, listen to it and then get afraid that it will come back. i've learned to stare it down. i actually focus on it - like i'm having a staring contest with my fear - and eventually it it blinks and looks away. i don't know if that will work for you but i love it when i win the staring contest.


#7 ShadyLady

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:02 AM

FEAR-Acronym; False Evidence Appearing Real. Was taught that in a celebrity drug rehab in 1983, along with FINE (Fricking Insecure Neurotic & Emotional) I never answer with "Fine" since then when asked "How are you doing?" Final one, SOBER (Son Of a B Everything is Real)...can't remember what I did yesterday:( but, those acronyms stuck with me! Go figure. Got hooked on coke (it wasn't addictive then! Haha) & anxiety & agoraphobia became a constant companion...bad memories and I 'fear' the a & a are returning in this discontinuation:/

#8 ShadyLady

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:10 PM

Read TM's post in 'TM Manual' this morning and have been trying to understand why I am so stuck in fear. Anxiety, as I remember experiencing it, was heart palpitations, inability to take a deep breath, unable to move much less go outside, mind racing uncontrollably, crying, needing to be able to touch the space around me like in a womb, etc. I have not experienced that anxiety since I stopped the dope 11 weeks ago...been afraid to disclose that as I was afraid I would jinx myself:(

I am a hot mess of depression...just gotta cut to the chase here. This post will be disjointed with no fluid thought as I have the attention span of a gnat and my thinking is 'amphetamine like staccato chatter' (TM's words) that never shuts up. Been like this all my life so this is not a w/d or d/c symptom. I did see a therapist, that effort took two weeks of negative mind chatter to even make the appointment! Saw him two times & it did not go well at all. This was the first time, after having seen 8-10 therps over the years & quitting after 2-3 visits because the 'fit was shit' so to speak, that I was going to stay with it. Wrong! He wanted to know what I expected him to do with the dumptruck of issues I backed into his office! I have to get out of this toxic 20 year marriage & am fearful of the unknown. What is scaring me is waking up each morning and dreading another day of existence...I want it to be nighttime with the hope of sleeping through another miserable day. Why am I so apathetic? What can I do now to get one thing moving in a positive direction and not have such fear!? Baby steps don't count with me, all or none A or F type here.

I know all the doobies to help with depression, in fact, just read ' The Depression Cure' and it is a great program but where's the clinic to check into in order to incorporate his 6 steps?! I am screwed. I guess my question is, did anyone else stop taking the C when they had any of those major life stressors on that scale (can't think of that test atm!) and if you did, have you made any progress toward building a more manageable, peaceful life? I ain't looking for a bed of roses here just some peace of mind & a tablespoon of self esteem would help immensely. Thanks, CS

#9 fishinghat

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 05:48 PM

CymSik, research has shown that Cymbalta actually damages the nerve dendrites on fear and anxiety circuits in both the amygdala and hippocampus (parts of the brain). It also alters the mood circuits and short term memory circuits as well. These nerves, without Cymbalta, become an open wound, in the brain until your body adjusts. Those are primary fear circuits that are capable of generating what is called (the fear of immediate doom). Many go to the ER  because their fear is so intense.


#10 brzghoff

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 05:49 PM

 

CymSik,

 

i am sorry to learn that you are "stuck" in a toxic marriage. it certainly sounds like you want out. i am not familiar with your particulars. 

 

you said: 

 

"I have to get out of this toxic 20 year marriage & am fearful of the unknown. What is scaring me is waking up each morning and dreading another day of existence...I want it to be nighttime with the hope of sleeping through another miserable day."

 

a huge self esteem booster would be to take that step to remove yourself from that toxic marriage. what would that take? you said fearful of the unknown. what is the unknown? financial resources? a place to stay? i get the impression marriage counseling is out - his choice, your choice, both? 

 

you asked for what you could do now to get one thing moving in a positive direction and not have such fear. but listen to what you are telling yourself "Baby steps don't count with me, all or none A or F type here." for all the things about your situation you can't change, that sounds like something you CAN change! challenging what we tell ourselves is the first step towards recovery. the words we choose are the way out. 

 

as for therapy, your therp sounded very callous whether he meant to or not. however, it is in your best interest to find one who will teach you the cognitive skills to help you act on those things you can change and recognize that there are no "musts" or "shoulds" in life. we can't change others, we can only change ourselves. that doesn't mean you have to accept an abusive situation but it may mean you have to remove yourself from it. 

 

i know it is a lot to think about, and what i wrote is nothing you haven't heard before, but personally, being able to challenge my thinking and accept that i can only change myself and not others is the only reason i felt confident to get off the C. if it wasn't for therapy i'd still be at 90 mg a day. 

 

as for the depression cure, what are the 6 steps that require a clinic? i saw a review of the book and noticed the 6 steps, but no mention of the major life stressors. the steps i saw were: omega fatty acids, engaged activity, physical exercise, sunlight exposure, social support and sleep. am i missing something there? those 6 steps i saw are great for me in beating down anxiety. i don't know if i had any major life stressors when i quit the C, but my lifestyle changed dramatically because i left my job and spend almost 24/7 at home now, whether its our home in florida or the one in north carolina. i used to be away from home about 50 hours a week.  that move also reduced our income by about 2/3 and we are dipping into savings to make it month to month. so, that is stressful but don't know where it falls on his scale. 


#11 ShadyLady

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:24 PM

Thank you, FH...Of course, I learned something new today from your reply;). Do these nerve dendrites repair themselves or are new ones created after stopping the C? My 'fear of immediate doom' was present even while on the Cym but now is magnified with the flight or fight response urging me towards 'the unknown' and I don't want to make my life worse than it already is:..(

Brz, I follow your posts and you offer very sound tips & advice! Thank you for taking the time to write such a long reply to my post. Hopefully, I can answer some of your questions to make some sense for myself. 'What would it take...?' I have left my husband more times than I care to count over the years, lived apart two years as I moved my precious mom in with me into one of the to houses we owned at the time. We, Mr. Misery & myself, saw each other several times a week. Mom passed 5 years ago & I moved back in, death blow to the little self worth I had left. There is much truth to the Battered Women Syndrome in that no 'normal' person can understand why 'we' go back! When you slowly allow someone to take your soul & break your spirit, you are left adrift a landscape of helplessness & hopelessness. I DO need therapy. The actions & work involved to get past this is the wall is the problem for me. I was more resigned to live like this until one of us died...sad but true, as I just turned 58 & he is 69. He still works, thank God, and our finances are such that I could live comfortably without him. I am a portal for other people's pain, saw somewhere on the forum about 'Highly Sensitive People, and I totally identified with it except for the introvert part...I am perceived to be an extrovert but lurk at home as an introvert. Tangent, oops:(. I fantasize about moving out of Calif & finding a new beginning but talk myself down as I feel I am too old & have a few chronic health issues.

You have written some things I have never heard before! If I thought I could find a quality therapist up in the Pac northwest, I think I would bail. I keep fighting this urge to throw some crap in my car and just drive until I find some beauty & comfort outside of this pain but, I have two little dogkids that I can't imagine leaving behind. My dogs are a huge consideration in leaving the a$$hole! I suppose I want someone to help me make a plan that will stick & I that I won't come back. The tapes play constantly of what he has made me believe about my value & worth as a human being for so long that I can't remember who I was before him.

With the regard to the 'clinic for The Depression Cure, I was only implying that I cannot seem to do anything good for myself and a clinic where there was structure & instruction sounds like a plan! I gotta stop writing for the moment as I am crying & cycling with that 'fear' stuff & need to go feed his miserable butt!

I guess, in summary, I cannot bloom where I am planted any longer. Now that I've been of the C for 11weeks, my situation is more painful & clear than I ever realized or remembered before since being on anti-d's for the same amount of time I have been with him, 22 years! The stress of the insanity has exacted a huge toll that only now begs for hope.

The stress test is the Holmes & Rahe Stress Scale, I couldn't remember what it was called when I was rambling earlier;)

#12 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:19 PM

OH, Cym...

 

I want to help you and am thinking hard of what I did when I left my last husband (yes, unfortunately I was stupid enough to do it 3 times!)  My first action was to see a lawyer and get an Order of Protection.  Do you have a family member or good friend that you could stay with temporarily - and take your dogkids with you?  You need to protect yourself, girl!

 

I understand about the low self-esteem - I was in that same place and it was miserable.  The hardest part is making a plan and sticking to it - but you CAN!  I did it so I know it can be done... I have been divorced for 25 1/2 yrs now and it was the best decision I made!

 

Are you now or can you in the near future find some employment?

 

Please think about this for a bit and then give me your answers - I really want to help you! You might want to PM me for the continuation of this...

 

 

Hugs,

Liz :hug:


#13 thismoment

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:20 PM

Hi CS. Sorry you're going through this. But you are going through it, which means at some time you will be out the other side. It's impossible to make specific recommendations, but is there an island you could hop to with your puppies until you are settled?

 

You said it yourself-- we become what we pay attention to. I am hoping for you, cheering for you.


#14 FiveNotions

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

TFL and Cym, if you want to include me in that PM thing, I've got a few years of experience with that situation as well ... and a whole bag of "tried & true tricks" for how to deal with/ get out of the situation ... some of them are really quite devilish, I think you'd enjoy using them immensely, Cym .... I know I did ....  :P


#15 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:48 PM

FN....

 

 

PLEASE JOIN IN!!! ;)


#16 FiveNotions

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:52 PM

TFL, I think the way the "PM party" thing works is that someone's got to "invite" me ... or send the initial PM to the other individuals right off the bat .... I can check if you'd like me to ...


#17 TryinginFL

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:57 PM

FN...

 

Thanks, since I am so technically challenged, I'll let you get the ball rolling...


#18 brzghoff

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:28 PM

Cym

 

it sounds like you've got some options and some folks ready to collaborate with you who have way more experience in regard to your specifics than i!

 

i can tell that somewhere deep in the well within, you will find all the strength, courage and determination you need to create a new future for yourself. no matter what, you need a safe place to recover from this withdrawal!


#19 thismoment

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:50 PM

Ah CS I see you're on. I hope your house didn't collapse in the earthquake.


#20 ShadyLady

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:14 AM

Thank you all for the support...it gives me hope that someone who has gotten out can give me some direction. He is leaving Thursday afternoon for 4 days to spend Labor Day at the lake with his son's family. I have not gone the last few times as the peace when he is not around gives me breathing room to relax & think more clearly without the 'fear' In the robotic mode I normally operate in when he is present. FN & TiF, Yes, I would appreciate any tricks or tips to move this apathy toward action. I filed for divorce in 2000 & moved to the Carolinas. Alas, he found me & I came back believing his lies to change. I have filed three restraining orders over the years and the police have been involved in the past. He has bp problems & copd, so now his mouth is his weapon. I have a couple close friends who have fallen off the radar after checking on me the first couple weeks of withdrawal after feeling i should be 'healed' by now off the C. Family? Oldest sister has Alzheimers & middle sister is bpd and hasn't spoken to me in over a year, I am thankful for that. She is a major manipulator and scary:/ I have the means to rent a place but finding any rentals that takes pets is next to impossible.

TM, an island? Hmmm, oasis maybe...but aren't they mirages?! Plus, I don't have any 'camels to send to bed' just me & the dogs, so the oasis maybe not such a great idea. Cabin in the woods is more what I have in mind. Thanks for your encouragement;)

#21 ShadyLady

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:18 AM

Nope! That quake was up north where ZappAlta lives. I wish it were here & would've crumbled the house with MM in it:/

#22 ZappAlta

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:48 AM

Cym I am approx 60 miles south of the Napa Valley but am vey familiar with the area I am forever taking visitors there .  Now I am wondering if they're is any support groups you could attend for so called 'battered women'  .  Take a look at 'Meetup' in your area .


#23 brzghoff

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:35 AM

 

Cym, sounds like you are going to have a four day stay at home vacation! that is great news! four days of doing what you want, where you want, when you want, how you want  and with whomever you want !


#24 fishinghat

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:48 AM

CM

 

There has been no long-term studies on the return to normal of those dendrites. The other did check some of his left over pecimens (rats) after 2 weeks off cymbalta but there was no improvement. It led to him saying that probably this condition was permanent. The two drs I have shared this study with both agree with me. Bull Manure!!  Nerves are just very slow to heal and two weeks means nothing.The nerve changes that Ativan (lorazepam) causes takes 2 years to completely heal. Most recent studies now focus on these physical effects on our brains and what it means but I am sure someone out there is probably doing a long-term study.

 

As they say ....More to follow.


#25 tria

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

FH - Thanks for the good medical info! Very interesting!  That fear of immediate doom has been one of my worst symptoms - it is just a horrible horrible thing.

 

CymSik - I'm so sorry for all that you are going thru. I want you to know I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.  I'm too tired to write more now, told myself I'd be off the computer a half hour ago, so really gotta go now!  Take care of yourself and hang in there!  You have lots of friends here who care about you!!


#26 thismoment

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:04 PM

Tria

Immediate or impending doom is an accurate description of acute anxiety, or anxiety trauma.

#27 DoneWithCrap

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:29 AM

CymSik I would change the locks on the doors while he is out of town!
I'm sorry to hear that you have to deal with all this stress while suffering with withdrawal symptoms.
I just took the stress test and scored 353. Over 300 means I have a high or very high risk of becoming ill in the near future. F that! I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!
I'm down to 70 beads from 320 (60mg) and decreasing by 5 beads a day. I know this is a fast taper but I can manage the withdrawal since I got my puppy. I warned my husband and kids that I would be bitchy during this wean and asked them to be patient with me. I read the Spoon Theory to them. When I can't do anymore for the day I just have to say "I'm out of spoons" and they know what I mean.
I can't imaging withdrawal symptoms while in an abusive relationship. My first husband was abusive. I was working full time while pregnant until I had the baby. Took 3 months off work when the baby was born then had to go back to work. I didn't trust my husband alone with the babies (only had a 1 yr old and 3 month old back then) so I finally realized I had to leave him. It is easier to find an apartment that allows kids... Not so easy when your kids are dogs but hopefully you can find a place to take them.
Or just change the locks! It's your house too. Make him move out!

Sorry if that is not helpful advise. I just have no tolerance for abusive people.

I know you can get through this! You have come a long way. You are stronger each day that you are off this crap. You will be happy one day soon!

#28 brzghoff

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:18 AM

 

i just took the stress test last night too! i scored 335, or something close to that. i'm not gonna cop to it. other than my mental state and an acute case of colitis back in 2009 i have been extremely healthy all my life. so it is not the end all predictor of what happens next - that is up to us!


#29 FiveNotions

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:45 PM

Well, girlfriends, how 'bout all of us who want to "run away" do just that ...pool our resources and find some big ol' house / cabin / barn somewhere in the wods/mountains etc ... Adirondacks would be my choice, but I'm open to anyplace really ... it'd hafta' be big enuf for our respective "fur kids" ... Cym and Liz have dogs, I've got 3 cats ...

 

we could set it up like one of those old fashioned boarding houses for "spinster ladies" .... we could even take in a few more wacky gals like us ... each have our own room(s), and live as independently as we wanted ...but meet up for late night cheesecake and ice cream and gab fests.... sort of a "Golden Girls" meets "Monty Python" thing ... :P

 

ah, I can dream, can't I?


#30 TryinginFL

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:50 PM

The perfect solution, FN!!!  I could live like that! :D





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