Need Help Helping Us (Dire)
Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:45 PM
Well the sleep deprivation and excessive work hours can certainly cause chronic adrenergic state. In other words running off adrenaline constantly. This can cause the anger, short tempered, and lack of rational thinking. Them there is the emotional effects of the Cymbalta itself. Sexual, mood swings and much more. Well the bead counting method seems like your best shot. How do you approach an irrational man to rationally discuss a problem? It would be hard to do that in a direct approach. Some how you have to get him to think this is his idea. That can be very difficult.
To be honest you may need to reach him by using a good therapist. Meet the therapist first and explain the issues and then talk him in to going with you. The therapist (if he/she) is any good can give you the tools to get him to address the issues.
God Bless and hang in there
Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:48 PM
Hang on as best you can. Help is coming.
- fishinghat and TryinginFL like this
Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:19 PM
Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:11 PM
I want to welcome you to our forum and I can feel the pain in your post. This is a difficult thing to undertake on one's own, let alone try to help someone else do it.
I can only suggest therapy, but can you get him to go with you? When rational, does he really feel that the pain relief is worth all of these nasty side effects? Bead counting would certainly be an ideal solution, but only if agreed upon.
Unfortunately, the VA problem is another entity altogether. Hopefully, some of us can mull this over and come up with some possible workable ideas.
It took courage to post your story and you have it in abundance - please hold on and we will try to help.
Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:36 PM
Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:44 PM
welcome to the forum, this is a good place with caring helpful people.
is he interested in getting off of cymbalta/duloxetine? will he let you help him wean via bead counting? there are others on this forum who are well versed in instructing how that works. others, like myself, went cold turkey (not recommended) and don't have the experience. is the VA his only resource for healthcare?
as for you, as others have also indicated, therapy is very important for you. if he goes great, but you need support, you need your own tools to cope with this situation. is there a crises resource in your community? especially if we are talking about domestic violence. do you have a safe place to go? family? friends?
please keep in touch, we care
Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:43 PM
INR. I have read hundreds of posts, although none like yours. My heart goes out to you and definitely out to him. Since I'm a female, I definitely understand your fear and frustration. fishinghat on the other hand being a male, gave you the best advice on how to approach your husband and letting him think he came up with the idea. As far as the VA hospitals and staff, well there are a wonderful thing, and yet they pose the same answers as uneducated doctors (concerning Cymbalta) in civilian life. As for you, I agree with others here on therapy for yourself. In getting therapy for yourself in this 'no win' situation, you might just find the answer to getting your husband to see what he has become. Wondering if you are in a safe environment myself! It doesn't sound like you are from your post. Are there any other family members who have been affected by this change?. All I can offer, from reading your post, is to not accept this behavior from him as it only reinforces him. Be silent and leave the house when things heat up. Do as much as you can for yourself to heal what has been burnt. I wish you well and please keep us posted...
Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:39 PM
I can't contribute a whole lot to this conversation, but I can say this.
I had horrible rages while on Cymbalta. Irrational. Angry over who-knows-what. I'd explode and want to be left alone - and then be upset that I was left alone. It's a blind moment where you know this makes no sense but it bubbles out of you. It doesn't excuse it - but know that on many levels he's being sincere when he says he's sorry. It's when he stops being sorry that it's VERY worrisome.
My husband is a veteran. Among all the other quirks that come with being married to him - his pride is always a factor. He needs to hear things from an "expert". Everything. He puts so much emphasis on privacy. (In fact - I had to take a break from typing this as he came in to see what I was up to!) It's a challenge. It is a balancing act under everyday conditions.
Is he connected to any other Veteran groups? A VFW? An American Legion? (Emphasis on support and "brotherhood" - not the cheap beer!) If he enjoys the computer (it's so much easier to choose when to interact when you aren't in control of yourself) - perhaps some Veteran groups on there?
I'm rambling...and just throwing out thoughts. Huge hugs to you!
Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:46 PM
My dear, you have reached through and touched my heart so profoundly tonight. I wish that I could reach through to you and take your hand, and the hand of your gentle giant and say to you both, "All pain is gone. Your hearts are mended; love is restored. I will withdraw for you-- I've done this before. Take my peace and I will find new peace-- I've done this before." But I can't do that, I can only send you this thought: If there's a cosmic well of pain, perhaps that hurt in my heart and those tears in my eyes were meant for you, but I assure you I am happy to have them this night. Take care.
- gail and brzghoff like this
Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:58 PM
You are not "all over the place" either! You write & express yourself beautifully...Blessings
Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:06 PM
It sounds like your man's emotions have flat-lined; that happened to me on C too. What you describe is crystal-clear absolutely true!
Let him know that you will help him should he decide to come off the drug, but you will tolerate no abuse now or then. You need to find some in-a-pinch safe-haven should the shit hit the fan some dark night-- some safe spot, a hostel, a motel; somewhere to run. A simple bag with essentials ready.
When a man's sexual desires dry up it's not uncommon for him to blame the woman. C can kill sex drive. And because healing takes place with connection, separate beds (while sensible and desirable under the circumstances) is disconnection. It all starts to compound and unravel; you go separate ways by night and day.
Put your mask on first! When travelling by air they tell us in an emergency to put your own mask on first before helping others. Put your mask on first! Take care of yourself and strive to stay healthy, otherwise you'll not be able to help anyone. You should let him know that you are walking on eggshells, and you can't live like this. Let him know that you are there, but he will have to reach out to you; you can only reach out and be rejected so many times before things start to come apart.
Stay strong here girl, but you're going to have to protect yourself. I love the phoenix avatar!
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Posted 22 August 2014 - 10:39 PM
INR, I'm sorry I wasn't online to respond when you first posted! First, I'm so very very glad you found us and have posted what's going on with your husband and you .... you're "one of us" now, and you're safe here ... you can come here and say anything you're thinking, feeling, experiencing ... and we're going to understand ... because we're either "been there, done that" or "are currently there, doing that"
We will do everything in our power to help you and your husband work your way through this, including getting him off the Cymbalta .... You and he can, and will, do this! Just stay with us here, read as much as you can and talk to us as much as you want/need to !
Thank you for taking the time to write your detailed posts ... it feels overwhelming and impossible to try to convey the depth of what it's like to be living the "Cymbalta hell", doesn't it ?.... there are so many angles, perspectives, details, complexities, layers ... and when we're right in the middle of the whole mess, trying to articulate it seems impossible .... at least, that's how I felt when I first arrived here late last December ....
I need to reread what you've written a couple more times, and then I'll post some questions, the answers to which will help us help you. Also some suggestions for things like vitamins, foods, "home remedies" .... the stuff that's worked for us ...
But, I'm really pooped out right now, and so I'll do that tomorrow morning ...
One thing I do want to say right away is ... do not let him quit this poison "cold turkey" .... it is not the way to do it, particularly for someone like your husband who is clearly extremely sensitive to these types of meds.... (I'm one of the folks here who did quit CT... I survived, but it was hell at first) .... but do not let your husband do this ... bead counting is going to be the only way to get him off this ... and over a good long period of time, removing just a few beads, or even one bead, every day or so ..
Also, I find it "interesting" (bad choice of words, given that this is hell for both of you) that most of the symptoms that your husband is experiencing while on the Cymbalta are what I experienced after quitting cold turkey (actually quite a few of us here had them as withdrawal symptoms) ... wild mood swings, episodes of physical violence (I hauled off and slugged my best friend, luckily a guy who not only is in great physical shape but knew what was causing me to be insane ) disgusting sweats, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, passing out, anxiety etc.
I see a great deal of hope in what you've written about how you and your husband are beginning to deal with this, and the positive steps you're taking already ... you're going to get through this!
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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:31 PM
Hi . I live in Canada and have been trying to get off of Cymbalta. I really don't like the side effects. When I go to the Dr. he wants to give me something else for the dry mouth and then when I asked to decrease it he said that 30mg is the lowest I can get in Canada. I now have 2 weeks of that doze left. Suddenly today I went to work and found myself crying like a baby and really had trouble concentrating on my job. I finally decided to come home to my supportive husband and my pillow. I felt that I needed a good night sleep, something that I have not been getting since on Cymbalta. It was prescribed to me with the diagnosis of Fibromyalgia 2 years ago. I really has not helped with the pain but I guess it was helping with dealing with it easier. I was ready the blogs and are you folks saying that you start taking the pills themselves apart and taking some of the beads out to make it a lower dose. I was told that since 20 mg was the lowest sold in Canada that maybe I should take on every other day. This blubbering fool is what has been produced from that intelligent idea. Please help me work through this. I want to feel normal and sleep better again with out the dry eyes and horrible taste in my mouth and brain fog. I will look for other help with the FM. thanks for listening.
Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:00 PM
Hi Jzacher. Welcome to the site.
The best choice, bead counting, is where you open the cymbalta capsule each day and remove a few beads, usually 2 or 3. So the first day you remove 3 beads, the next day 6 beads, the next 9 beads etc. This provides for a slow steady withdrawal. If symptoms get to bad you just hold at that dosage for a while until you stabilize. Then start dropping again. Be aware that for most the last few beads give the worse withdrawal. Be prepared to slow down when you get to the very end. Now this is just an example. Some can only remove 1 bead a day and others 7 or 8 beads a day. You will have to play with it a little bit to find what works for you. This doesn't mean you won't have withdrawal but it will be lighter and you will have some control over it.
The first 3 or 4 weeks of withdrawal are the worse. By the 8th to 12th week usually see signs of good days followed by bad days but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. Now that is the average. I have known people who actually quit cold turkey without a symptom. And others where the withdrawal last 6 months to over a year but these are rare. Research says between 30 to 80% of people do not experience withdrawal while other research shows that around 7% experience withdrawal of 6 months or more.
For fibromyalgia I would try Braggs brand Apple Cider Vinegar. The dosage is 2 tablespoons in about a cup of cold water once a day. There has been some medical research that this juice has benefit for fibro and arthritis pain. This brand is the only one that works because it is the only one that is unfiltered and not pasteurized. Many find this solution to be too acidic for their stomach to handle, if you have that problem then buy some malic acid/magnesium tablets at your local health store. Malic acid and magnesium are the active ingredients in the Apple Cider vinegar.
There are many wonderful people on this site that care and will share there advice as well. But don't forget .... you are not alone.
- Jzacher likes this
Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:30 PM
Welcome, Jzacher! We're happy you have found us! You will find much help, caring and support on this site! These people are marvelous and I don't know what I would have done without them...
I am a cold turkey survivor - almost 8 months now - but wish I knew about the bead counting when I did that! I was already 2 weeks into it when I discovered this site and just continued on, but it was truly a trip to Hell. I don't recommend it!
I drink the ACV with water, a little honey and cinnamon every day and it really has helped the fibro and arthritis pain - it's amazing! (However, I heat it)
Please feel free to ask questions, vent, cry, share anything.... Everything is OK here and this is a safe place. More members will chime in here soon to welcome you - you will love it here! Please keep us updated as to your progress.
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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:28 PM
I do hope you will try the bead counting suggested my our resident 'physician FH' who has a vast knowledge of the drug pharm;)
10 weeks off the C and I don't have any pearls of wisdom to share as I am still picking up scattered pieces of my poor brain after cliff diving off at around 20mg!
Be well and spill it all here as this is the most compassionate forum on the internet, imho;)
- Jzacher likes this
Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:56 PM
Thank you everyone for the support. I started with 30 mg tablets for the first year then was increase due to pain for the last year. I started taking the 30 ml tablets again about 2 months ago altering one every other day then every third day. On Tuesday I stopped all together and by today I was at work and the water works started. I have since come home and had 5 hours sleep. I hope that I don't go on a rollercoaster that lasts too long as I did not take this for depression. It was give to me for my fibromyalgia (which I have told the dr over the years doesn't seem to be working) It is nice to know you are out there. Thanks for the ACV idea. I used to drink a lot of that when I was a kid so will try it again.
Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:27 PM
The way you have been taking this crap has put you into cold turkey withdrawal... The "water works" is only a small part of it. Please think about going back on the 30 mg and consider the bead counting method as it is much gentler on you and will keep the withdrawal symptoms to a minimum. You don't want to experience the cold turkey withdrawal, especially if you are working!
Should you have questions, please ask - we are all here to help!
Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:13 AM
You will find lots of wisdom and help here.
I agree with Tfl, and most of all that was said here.
Bead counting. Of course, we all are unique and our withdrawal are also.
I was at 30mg, got down to 15 for a month, then off.
The side effects while on the crap were making anxiety many times worst than when I began.
It was given to me for that and depressive moods!!!!!
So I had no choice to ct from 15mg.
From one Canadian to another, keep posting!
Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:26 AM
Hi JZ, welcome! I'm with FishingHat, TFL and Cym on this ... hop back on the full dose, stay on it until you get stable again (a few days, a week, whatever length of time it takes).... and use that time to develop your plan for bead counting ... I'll let FH, ThisMoment and the others here who used that approach give you the details ...
I quit cold turkey ... jumped out of the plane without a parachute ... didn't find this forum and learn about bead counting until I was too far into "freefall" to turn back ... it was a hard, hard landing ... I'm almost 9 months off now, and finally through the worst of it... but I would not recommend cold turkey, alternating days or the "step down" process, to anyone ... alternating days and quitting altogether just puts you into cold turkey ... repeatedly ... a series of hard landings ... don't do that to yourself, please!
The crying ... wild emotional swings for no apparent reason, weird taste in your mouth, brain fog, and wanting to sleep are all typical symptoms of getting off the poison ... and they are worse/stronger when it's a cold turkey quit ... you may also have "brain zaps," nausea, vertigo... a whole host of other effects ....
If you have some vacation or sick leave saved up, or could take a brief leave of absence, you might want to consider doing so. Having time to be at home and rest while going through this is very helpful ... your brain and body need as much peace, quiet and rest as they can get in order to start healing themselves!
The Bragg's ACV is something I started using early in withdrawal ... it helped with the muscle spasms and brain zaps, and I also discovered that it cured my arthritis and acid reflux ...
Also, some basic vitamins and supplements may help ... multi-vitamin, b-complex, omega 3 and chelated magnesium. (The magnesium helps with muscle aches/spasms and a bunch of other stuff.)
Hang in there, and keep us posted!
Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:34 AM
INR, I'm back at last to follow-up on my first post ... I apologize for not getting here yesterday as I'd promised, but I ended up sleeping almost all day ... overdid last week, and "paid the price" ... :-%
How are you and hubby doing today?
See my post to JZ, above, for some basic vitamins and supplements for your husband... get him started before you start the bead counting ... also, check out our "nutritional support" forum https://www.cymbalta...tional-support/ for lots of suggestions for "basics" and for what works for specific symptoms (brain zaps, nausea, etc.) that may crop up along the way ... here's a link to a thread from that forum ...
Stay with us!
Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:47 AM
You have been given solid advice from these good people. (Are you taking brand name Eli Lilly Cymbalta or a generic?)
Here's what I would do:
Go back on the 30 mg until stable (maybe 1 or 2 weeks). Then I would start weaning off slowly. I would put no time limit on the weaning-off time, but rather, I'd let the symptoms tell me if I'm going too slow or too fast. (The symptoms are worse when you withdraw quickly, therefore symptoms can be used as a Rate-of-reduction Guide.)
There are a few ways to wean off, and we can discuss that as time goes on. But right now, get stable (which means no, or few symptoms-- comfortable).
You can do this and we can help. Don't worry.
Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:56 PM
You are obviously in cold turkey withdrawal. Please get back on the 30 mg until you feel stable.
If you click on "forums" on our home page you will see one called "counting beads" on the left side of the screen. This explains the process very well and you can ask all the questions you need to for help from all the wonderful people here. Please don't put yourself through this cold turkey process - none of us who did this would have done so if we had a choice.
You need to be kind to yourself at this time and take things slowly so that you will have as few side effects as possible. I cannot imagine trying to work during cold turkey withdrawal, but many have been able to work while slowly doing the bead counting. This is not a race to the finish - you want to discontinue this poison with as little upset as possible and it will take some time.
I wish you the best and please give this some long, thoughtful consideration. You will be much happier this way - trust me!
Good luck and please keep us posted...
Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:03 PM
I see you have Fibro, too...cold turkey will put you in a fibro flare, big time:((
Stay here and let us know what and how you are doing...May peace & calm come quickly to you
Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:55 PM
JZ, ditto to what the others are telling you ... get back on your full dose immediately and get stabilized ... do not do this to yourself ... what you're experiencing is not necessary ... it's self-defeating behavior ... and on top off making yourself suffer unnecessarily, you're possibly putting your job at risk ....
Get stable on your last dose level ... then start bead counting down ... over a longer period of time ... please ....
Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:42 PM
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