23 replies to this topic

[Tinker]

I was doing so well. I tapered off with minimal side effects, I thought I was going to be one of those lucky ones. That was until I finished my last bead, then all hell broke loose. The last 2 or so weeks I have been irritable and miserable to the extreme. It got really bad. Last week I was soo angry that I had to find something to be angry at, and my boyfriend was the target. I felt like I wanted blood I was that angry! Next is the sadness, like the feeling that you are all alone and that grieving feeling. The other day I broke out with another fight with my boyfriend, the downs have been unbearable, so as of two days ago I went back on Cymbalta. I don't know what to do, I feel that im in utter despair. Am I reliant on this drug for the rest of my life? because I cant live like a crazy depressed woman all my life. Is there an alternative that is not going to make me put on weight and make me feel tired? I don't know if its also the contraceptive pill that is responsible for my mood swings? I just feel at a loss. I don't have confidence in my doctor giving me a solution to this. Im scared im going to go back to drinking like a fish again and that its going to do more damage to my brain.

[thismoment]

Tinker

 

Sorry you're having a rough go. You started tapering in May and finished the last week of August? Like 3 months total tapering and you've been off 3 weeks or so?

 

Yeah it's nasty. You should probably bring your doctor into the loop. You will probably have to stay on until you're stable, and maybe consider an alternative weaning strategy like piggy-back off with Prozac or similar. You keep taking the Cymbalta until the Prozac is fully on board (6 weeks or so), then wean off the Cymbalta over 3 months or so. Wean off the Prozac after you are completely stable.

 

The mood swings are typical of Cymbalta withdrawal and/or discontinuation.

 

Do you have a therapist? If not, it would help because you will learn strategies to manage some of the destructive mind states-- like rage.

 

Will you have to be on it for the rest of your life? That's unknown. How long were you on it, and what is your previous history with SS/SNRIs?

 

Slow down and get stable. Take care.

[Tinker]

Thanks TM.  Does Prozac work similar to Cymbalta and does that give you less of a withdrawal?

 

I don't have a therapist at the moment. I haven't really been on any other medication or antidepressants prior to this.

 

Sorry for the short reply, my brain feels like mush now im back on these pills.

[thismoment]

Tinker

Prozac is similar-- it's an SSRI as opposed to an SNRI. It has a much longer half-life (2-3 days vs 12 hours for Cymbalta). It has proven to be easier to withdraw from.

How long were you on Cymbalta?

[Tinker]

I was on cymbalta for four years on 30 mg.
thanks for your advice re Prozac. I will speak to my doctor about it.

[thismoment]

Tinker

 

At 4 years, your exposure might be considered fairly long-term and that certainly contributes to having more difficulty in withdrawal and discontinuation. Talk to your doctor about the piggyback on Prozac or you might just consider a longer-term withdrawal regimen to get off Cymbalta without other meds (for example taper off over 6-8 months or even longer).

 

It's not uncommon for the doctor to suggest you start the Prozac and quit the Cymbalta fairly quickly. I'm not a doctor, but anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the Prozac should be on stream-- or nearly so-- (about 6 weeks) before weaning off the Cymbalta.

 

You haven't been off Cymbalta very long, so re-instating now shouldn't be a problem-- but none of this is perfect: It's a crap-shoot when starting, stopping, and re-starting these drugs.

 

You still have to find a way to alter, deflect, distract, isolate, or pre-empt your anger. Therapy will help. Those destructive mind-states create history that cannot be re-written.

[air3333]

Guys, I am having extreme mood swings. Its been 4-5 months since I went down from 60 to 30 mg. I am still on 30 mg and I am still having mood swings. 

 

Anger, frustration, despair, happiness. All kinds of emotions are coming out that I never had in the last 6 years. 

 

if only dropping 30 mg can cause this then definitely dropping off the whole drug quickly will probably do even more mood swings and anger. 

[Tinker]

TM does that mean I would need to take a dose of cymbalta and Prozac at the same time? That sounds like a lot of drugs! Would that turn me into a zombie like state? The slow taper sound appealing, would have to do some calculations on how many beads to drop over the period.
Air sorry to hear you're in the same boat, this anger and sadness we feel is very destructive and had to reflect, a real relationship wrecker! I really thought the worst part of the withdrawal process would be getting off the pills, I didn't think that the worst part is after you stop completely. Have you considered TMs recommendations above?

[brzghoff]

TM does that mean I would need to take a dose of cymbalta and Prozac at the same time? That sounds like a lot of drugs! Would that turn me into a zombie like state? The slow taper sound appealing, would have to do some calculations on how many beads to drop over the period.
Air sorry to hear you're in the same boat, this anger and sadness we feel is very destructive and had to reflect, a real relationship wrecker! I really thought the worst part of the withdrawal process would be getting off the pills, I didn't think that the worst part is after you stop completely. Have you considered TMs recommendations above?

 

 

yes it does mean at the same time, ramp up one ramp down the other at the same time. of course, only under the direction of a dr, preferably a psychiatrist.

 

i don't know the particulars, i didn't do it that way. TM may be out a day or two

[air3333]

I believe I actually am doing better. It has been 3 months since reduced from 60 to 30 and during that time it was very difficult, physically and mentally. 

 

I kept getting severe panic feelings and anxiety during that time. At times I felt like there was no hope and that I was going to become homeless. There was that, and now recovery. I haven't gotten that feeling in over a week. I feel more stable now. 

 

I know if I drop more from 30 to 20 mg that might come back. And I kind of want to avoid that feeling, it is horrible. I bet a lot of crimes are committed while people are in withdrawal with Cymbalta and they blame it on the person. 

[FiveNotions]

Air, great progress report, and congratulations on getting down to 30 mg.!!!

 

BUT, for this last part ... bead count ... slowly ... very slowly ... do NOT just drop from 30 to 20! Take more time, do it gradually ... everyone who bead counts says that the last few beads/doses are the hardest ... (I quit cold turkey, so I'm just repeating what the bead counters here have said)...

 

Do you have a benzo on hand to help with the anxiety?

[Tinker]

Hi everyone, just to keep you updated from my last response, I spent a total of 3 days on cymbalta 30mg then I decided not to take any more as didn't want to go through this experience over again. It was interesting because the cymbalta alleviated the rage I was experiencing at the time and I experienced no withdrawals from suddenly stopping 3 days later. I suffer from bad mood swings (PMS) but typically after my menstural cycle I feel normal again. I'm thinking that maybe I can take an antidepressant for the PMS duration (typically one week) then stop until the next occurrence. I wonder if that will stop me from becoming addicted?.. I'm also considering switching to a non hormonal contraceptive which, fingers crossed, may also reduce the mood swings. Seeing my gp in the morning to discuss.

[TryinginFL]

Tinker

 

I am amazed that you can do that - sounds like it would put you right into cold turkey withdrawal.  However, if this works, you are lucky!  Many of us wish that it could have been that easy!

 

All the best to you...

 

Liz 

[FiveNotions]

wow, Tinker... you're having a much easier go of it than most of us...bravo!!

 

I have doubts about using anti-d's in that way ... typically any anti-d takes several weeks, sometimes up to 6 weeks, to become effective...so, short term use, on and off etc, isn't done...

 

Do you have a decent doc who can help you figure out something that would help for just these "periods" of time

 

I'll do some research on it and see what I can find ... probably not today, as I'm having a "crapalta" day right now ...

[Carleeta]

Tinker, I too am amazed how you can handle going on cymbalta for thee days and then off with minimal symptoms. Honestly, I don't know if taking an antidepressent for a week during pm and then stopping would be the best way to go. Antidepressent work when taken properly. I'm sure there is something more effective in the gynecologic area which can help with the pm symptoms. Natural hormones may work, you can look into them. I seriously would not consider taking any antidepressent for just one week and off for three.

Please reconsider that thought!

[FiveNotions]

Just checked this Tinker ... you cannot use anti-d's like that ... on and off ... does nothing except f-up your brain and body ... and, as I said, they take weeks to ramp us in the system ... weeks of taking them daily, same dose, same time ...

 

DO NOT do that! Find another alternative ... please ....

[Tinker]

Thanks for your concern everyone. Turns out my doctor also had the same concerns and didn't like the idea of me going on an anti-d on and off. Instead she has given me a new contraceptive (yaz) to try that is supposed to help with depression. Not exactly what I was hoping for but if it works (with minimal side effects) it will be a miracle. I'm not convinced it will work as planned but time will tell.

[FiveNotions]

Sounds like you've got a pretty good doc, Tinker, excellent!

 

What's "yaz" ? is that an acronym? Gotta' look this one up ... any additional info you can share ... about the med, and what you experience while using it, would be really helpful for us to know ...

[Carleeta]

Tinker, glad you discussed this issue with your doctor. There are many successful contraceptives which help with the female hormones and regulate them. This could adjust your emotions, depression, and mood swings...

You made a good choice in communicating the truth with your doctor.

Best of luck to you....

[Tinker]

FN Yaz (no acronym) is a contraceptive pill that is also supposed to assist with depression but I guess we will see if it does work. I only started yesterday so will take a while to work. I have to admit I'm not happy about having to go on another pill, I just know, as with everything that there will be side effects.
After all that I'm not sure if my mood swings are solely related to PMS anymore. Today I've been in such a foul mood, rage like (although managed to contain an outburst) and I've only just finished my lady cycle. every little thing just peeves me off today for no reason and I just want to snap. I spent all day like this. I can't seem to snap myself out of it when I'm in that state. I'm going to monitor to see if the pill helps with the anger and if not, back to the doc!

[FiveNotions]

Tinker, when did you start bead counting? And what dose were you on when you started? I assume it was the brand, as I found the thread you started back in May 2014, in which you said you'd been dropping 10 beads a day.

When did you get off it completely?

Here are some thoughts based on just your posts/threads I've been able to find and re-read:

The 10 beads a day was likely way too fast a drop. And it seems like you may have started bead counting about 6 months ago ... which would mean you've only been completely off a couple/three months ... that's not long at all. Your brain still hasn't adjusted to the too rapid loss of serotonin from the abrupt bead counting off the crapalta ...

Everything you're experiencing is typical for a too fast/ too hard drop in dose. Especially the moods ... I'm not so sure the birth control pills are going to fix what "ails you" ... because what's ailing you is likely still just crapalta discontinuation ... only time can heal that ...

Let us know the specifics of how you got off this, when you started, from what dose, how long you've been completely off. I think you're still in hard, or "partially hard" withdrawal ... if so, you're just expecting too much too fast in terms of how rapidly you'll return to "normal." And, just remember, it's pretty unlikely you'll every be your "old normal" ... as in pre-Cymbalta ... what you're working towards is a "new normal" ... post Cymbalta ...

Hang in there! And try not to expect so much of yourself ... your brain is rewiring, re-learning how to regulate it's own serotonin level. It take time ... a lot of time ... often a loooong time ... I'm starting my 11th month off, and I've still got struggles ...

What do you have for the anxiety?

[Tinker]

Oh gosh FN, I hope this is not the new me but this is starting to concern me. Two days ago I got so angry while driving that I cussed at a guy who was in a car next to me, fortunately (or unfortunately) the only one who herd it was my poor little niece in the car. Yesterday, again rage while I was taking my niece and nephew out to lunch and the beach. I was snapping at my 4 year old nephew who was just being a typical 4 year old pain in the butt, then I was angry at the place I took them out for lunch, I was furious that they served just chips with the salmon (what, no veggies?!!!) and that the salad bar was empty! This morning I woke up and started thinking about things and made myself so angry that I ended up not going to my usual gym class (which I usually hate missing) and went back to bed to sleep it off. I can't live like this, I'm an angry ball of mess!
I think you are right, it was about 3 months tapering off 30mg, although I felt that I could cope with the dosage I dropped and didn't experience many side effects although I believe the irritability did start during the tapering. The brand I was taking is called Andepra. I agree that the new birth control pill is not going to "fix" me, I'm angry about being switched also when I know it's not going to work. I don't have anything for anxiety but I don't appear to be feeling anxious.
Sorry for my whiney posts, but I feel that you guys are the only ones who understand. Thanks again xxoo

[FiveNotions]

Tinker, I think you've somehow gotten yourself into hard withdrawal ...or the after-effects ... the anger issues arrive for many of us if we go off too fast ... well, even when we reduce slowly.... again, it's due to the serotonin reduction in the brain ...

okay, I need you to focus ... we need more facts to figure this out ... go back up to my post at 9:22 a.m. this morning ... answer each and every one of the questions I asked ... when you started tapering, how, etc...
 
Also, I'm checking on the Andepra ... seems like it's a generic, not the Lilly brand of Cymbalta... is that correct? What country do you live it? Australia by any chance? I can't find much on this .... but I saw a mention of some sort of "deal" / relationship between lilly/Cymbalta and Andepra ....

Did you have symptoms/side effects while on the Andepra?

Post again, with answers to every one of the questions I asked you this morning ... this is very important information for figuring out what's going on with you right now ...

Also, you're doing exactly the right thing by sleeping as much as you can ... and, try to limit your driving and time with your young children in the family ... you're not in control of your moods right now, due to the serotonin swings in your poor brain ... you need every bit of rest and quiet that you can get ... and the young'uns don't need to see / feel you when you're like this ... nor should you be driving ... go easy on yourself, my dear ... this drug is a bitch to get off of, and I think you may have been expecting too much, too fast ... we all want off of this asap, but asap often comes back to bite us in the butt ...

A benzo would help not just the anxiety, but also the anger ... you need a bit of "chilling out" ... another possible "home remedy" is Nyquil or Robitusson cough syrup ... but don't use either if you're driving or out and about ... they both make you sleepy ... the key ingredient in both is something called "DMX" ... it give the brain a quick serotonin boost, and helps with sleep, muscle spasms etc ... I used Nyquil for several weeks during the worst of hard withdrawal ... about the 2d or 3d month ....

[Tinker]

Thanks again FN for your support. If I knew you in person I would give you a big hug, but a virtual hug will have to do 😊.
Geese, I think I stopped taking cymbalta was in August so about 2 months. Tapering method I think at the start I was dropping beads fast (say up to 50 at a time) until I felt stable then drop again. Towards the last 100 I went slower until the last 10 or 20, where I really slowed, at my last 10 I dropped one every week or two. I am not sure when I stopped taking the cymbalta brand and switched to the generic as I didn't pay much attention but I think I've been taking the generic for a few years. My side effects from the drug was loss of libido and sexual dysfunction, and an extreme drinking problem. I hope that answers all your questions? Sorry I can't be more specific as I just never paid attentions (never thought I'd need to!)
Yes I'm in Australia, and I think your spot on about the Andepra brand, it does have Lilly written on the packet.
It's really strange, after my nap I felt fine again. The anger comes and goes. Yes the kids don't need to see me angry, fortunately I don't think they have noticed as I have tried to keep it controlled when boiling on the inside. Benzos, I have heard people talk about this on here quite regularly. I assume this is by prescription? Not sure how I convince my dr to prescribe me this but will ask her on my next visit