116 replies to this topic

[SarahT]

Hubby never had this kind of anxiety before. He was not paranoid something bad was happeneing or anything. Hubby was seeing a pain clinic for the pain in his neck and shoulder. I am sure it may have helped or done something in the begining I really dont remember. But then in the end of April this year 2009 he was put from 60 to 120 mg. Nine days later he had a sezure on Saterday morning and then two times on Mother's day and then the Anxiety started. He tryed to work and could not do it then the dr who though he had epilepsy took him off o work or 90 days to see if he would seize again. He did not two weeks into the 90 days they admitted him to do a 24 hour eeg. and ound nothing but once the 90 days were up and he was to go back to work and the anxiety was sooo bad that he could not do it and they sent him home now we are waiting or long term disabiliy to start to help out. I dont work. I dont know how long it will take for the withdrawl effects to go away.

I will be wrigitng a letter to the pain clinic giving one to her coworker and one to her and one to the board of directors for the hopsital.

Looking for help and support in dealing with all of this. I am fighting to keep our family normal and in one piece of sanity.

Sarah
Please feel free to email me craftymomof6@gmail.com

[SarahT]

anyone have a list of side effects and withdrawl effects list I will be writing a letter and would love the info.

[Houdi]

Hi Sarah:

I think there was a member that tried to put together a list of side effects and withdrawal symptoms, but I can't find. So go to this other Cymbalta forum I visit, www.cymbaltasurvivors.com and look under these sections.

What are withdrawals? A layman's look at Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome
An explanation of what's happening to you.

and

What are these withdrawals anyways?
Why is this happening to YOU

There is all kinds of great info! There are some great weaning tips too.

Houdi

[SarahT]

Thanks

Another question.... the severe withdrawal symptoms how long till they go away? he has been off it for three months. I am not a very strong person and had to become one. it is not easy. It is driving a wedge between us.To battle the sideffects theu put him on another med that is not helping. I am falling appeart.

I am lost and miss the man I married.

[Houdi]

SarahT:

All I can tell you is how the withdrawal went for me...personally. But by three months, the worst was in my rear view mirror. I still had the 'hanging on' withdrawal symptoms like the whooshing and sweats, heart palps and swelling/aching in my hands and feet, tingling in my fingers and bottom lip. But, things were subsiding and I had some REALLY great days in there.

I too wonder if the other medication they are giving him is causing some issues. What is it?

SarahT...I'm glad you feel comfortable to say how much you miss the man you married. It is true and human. He is worth fighting for, so you will have to be his advocate right now. If things aren't right or even close to better, its good you are by his side. Stay strong, no falling apart. We are ALL here for you....good and bad. Tell us the truth, get everything off your chest. One step at a time.

Best of wishes to you and a HUGE hug....Houdi

[SarahT]

He now after yesterday Dr. app. he is on 20mg 4 times a day a total of 80mg of Citalopram

I am falling appeart and it is hard because the one person I can talk to is my hubby. And for me to talk to him I have to test the waters. Eithor he is defencive ,or gets depressed, or has an anxiety attack.

The Dr. yesterday said he could not rewind the clock so we have to move forward and start treating what is going on now.

What irritated me was that they are not finding the cause of it to work on what startewd this.

My hubby is the only one working and he can not go to work.

[Junior]

Hi Sarah

I am so sorry this has happened to you and your husband. I really hope you guys can find your way through this and that you can find the guy you married all over again.

Just some info on these types of drugs generally; not sure if it will help but it might:

SSRIs - like Citalopram - work by effectively increasing the amount of Serotonin in the brain. I believe Serotonin is also found in the 'gut'. I know when I was on Aropax (basically a wonder drug for me/ i want it back!) that the IBS i'd suffered previously, from time to time, was gone.

SNRI's - like Cymbalta - increase both Serotonin and Norepinephrine.

Now... there are 3 of these chemical messengers implicated in all the mental illnesses / disorders:
- serotonin
- norepinephrine, and
- dopamine

I know from having done previous research, from my studies in psychology, from drugs my son takes (he has autism and adhd), and from looking at my family history (we are all loopy! LOL) that:
- low serotonin is involved in depression
- low serotonin is also implicated in aggressive behaviour
- high norepinephrine is implicated in restlessness, an inability to concentrate, and problems sleeping
- low norephrine contributes to depression
- low dopamine can result in some of the main symptoms of depression, namely: low mood, anhedonia (loss of interest in activities previously enjoyed; essentially a loss of interest in life), and insomnia

However, I believe that scientists have discovered over FIFTY different chemical messengers in the brain, e.g. glutamate and GABA. Given that we are all 'wired' a little differently, it is not surprising that what works well for one, is going to be poison for another. I don't think anyone really knows how moderating 1 or 2 chemical messengers affects the rest of the brain. I DID come across an abstract of a peer reviewed (academic) journal the other day, one I intend to chase up, suggesting that:

"... a large body of evidence from animal studies demonstrates that sensitisation of D2-like dopamine receptors in the mesolimbic dopamine system [the limbic system is thought to be the emotion centre of the brain] may represent a 'final common pathway' in antidepressant action."

I've also found a body of evidence just from a net search suggesting that these drugs have what is known as a 'poop out' effect, meaning that the drug is no longer as effective as in the past. That is what happened to me. They seem to think, I don't know if there is enough evidence to make solid conclusions, that while an SSRI continues to make more serotonin available, the brain itself responds by slowing down it's dopamine system - therefore bringing back some of the symptoms of depression!

Your husband's anxiety problems may be linked to this 'discontinuation' syndrome - or drug withdrawal. TBH I don't think enough research has been done on this topic and that prescribing doctors are really just stumbling around in the dark, doing their best to help their patients. I guess the decision on what to do comes down to what you, your husband, and your treating doctor think. If it was me, I'd try to full on detox from all of these drugs. That's what I'm doing right now -before looking at going back on the drug that worked for me. But I haven't had the severe reactions that your husband has.

I wish you and your husband the very best and hope you can find a long-term solution to this horrible situation.

[SarahT]

If we were to go about detoxing how would we do it?

This is what I told I believe is going on with him.

First they had him on 60 mg of Cymbalta and then over night she had him start taking 120mg.

Ten days later he started having seizures and a bad brain shock. I believe it took the ten days for his body to overload.

Then when we found out that it wa Cymbalta he started coming off it and the withdraw symptoms came as each dose went down. When it came to a point that my hubby was mean when he spoke to anyone we went to see a psycolgist who instead of helping him get off it gave him more meds to take.

Now I know now that the cymbalta raises only serotonin and when he was not all the way off it and they put him on Citalopram that it just fed the withdrawl that he was having. even though the citalopram raises dopamien also the serotonin just fed the bodies addiction to it.

Does this make sence???

[Junior]

Hi Sarah,

Cymbalta actually alters BOTH serotonin and norepinephrine. It is an SNRI.(serotonin and norepineprhine reuptake inhibitor)
Citalopram only alters serotonin. It is an SSRI. (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor)

Several people here have talked of taking Prozac (another SSRI) while trying to come off Cymbalta. I understand that Prozac is good for that because when you stop taking it - it stays in your system longer than some of the other drugs meaning that any withdrawal symptoms will be less severe. It also seems to be the easiest to get off. Your Dr may be thinking the same about Citalopram.

You said you went to see a psychologist. I think you must have meant psychiatrist as psychologists can't prescribed drugs. Just so you understand the difference (I've done studies in psychology), psychologists do 'talk therapy' while psychiatrists basically use drug therapy. Anyhow, I would scrap that Dr and find someone else. He / she isn't listening. Or, isn't explaining things properly. I had the same prob recently. The psychiatrist I consulted put me straight onto 60mg of Cymbalta, I didn't know there was a 30mg tablet, and the only side effect he warned me of was nausea. I'm not going back to him.

Like Houdi and everyone else here, I am not a doctor so I can't really tell you what to do. I can only suggest things. But if your hubby has had major probs with dropping the dose of Cymbalta, then he may need to drop the dose more slowly. That is, instead of say, dropping from 120mg to 60mg.. he may need to take 110 for a week, then 100 for another week, etc.

Hope that helps :)

[SarahT]

Hubby went from 120mg back to 60 overnight was on that a week. then they had him split his 60 to 30mg for a week and then stop. Then week to two weeks after stoping the cymbalta because the withdrawl was so bad put him on 20mg of citalapram for a week then 40mg for a while (that was not workng his anxiety side efffect never went away only got worse preventing him from working.then they uped it to 60mg this made things worse yet so they upped it to 80mg that he takes 20mg four times a day and after each dose he sleeps for about an hour to two and wakes up.

He has seen both a psychologist and a psyciatrist.The one that just talked kept falling asleep during the session. The other one does not listen and is a jerk.

[Junior]

Going on what people here have said, it sounds like the reductions in dose were too steep for him. It seems also that the Citalopram was added to help with the side effects of the withdrawal but that the withdrawal itself has been too much. How long has your husband been off Cymbalta?

Both shrink and psych were useless? Ditch them and try someone else. What you have described sounds like reactions to the various drugs so I'm not sure a psychologist would be of any benefit. Problem is, as you have found out, often the specialists in the field don't have all the answers. I blame the drug companies. They don't release all the information they have following the clinical trials. It's criminal really.

Your hubby's sleep problems, from what you say, sound like a reaction to the Cymbalta. When I came off Lexapro, I suffered insomnia for 2 nights then my natural sleeping pattern returned. I've been off Cymbalta for 2 weeks and my sleeping pattern is still up the pole. I'm going to try Melatonin tonight and see if that helps.

[SarahT]

I agree that he had come off it to qick with the drops too steap.

how do we fix this now or rectify it. Would a detox work or what?
The Citalapram has made things worse between us. Feels as though he does not want me around.

[Junior]

How long has he been off the Cymbalta Sarah? If it's only been a few days I would suggest going back on it - at the last dose he was taking - and tapering more slowly. If he's been off it for, say, 2 weeks, I'd be disinclined to want to put that poison into his body again. Remember, I am not a doctor so I can only go on my own experience and with what people here have been saying. (I've been on Aropax, which worked well for me, Escitalopram, and Cymbalta).

Another option could be to switch from Citalopram to Prozac. Many people here have said Prozac has helped a lot with the Cymbalta withdrawal. Both Citalopram and Prozac are SSRIs so switching shouldn't be too hard (u can have one on one day and the other the next - at an equal dose). Prozac is said to be the easiest of the SSRI's to come off as it stays in your system longer after you stop taking it. (longer half life).

Try not to be put off by the way he is acting. I know that is hard but as you've said yourself, this is not the guy you married. He is still in there. It's what these drugs are doing to him. If you love someone, they are worth fighting for, right?

[SarahT]

He was put on the Cymbalta in Feburary of this year. on april 29 was put on 120mg and on may 20 went back down to 60 mg. on May 21 he started his week of 60mg then the next week on May 28 he started his 30mg. By June 4 he was off Cymbalta.

So he has been off 82 days. how long before he is back to normal. We desperatly need hoim back to work He has been off since may14
and tried to go back two weeks ago with no help. Made the paranoia worse.

I know he is in there but some things he dose are verry hurtfull. I am trying so hard to keep it together I truly am.

[Houdi]

SarahT:
I know you need your husband to go back to work, but he isn't going to get there when he is paranoid and suffering from the MD's making him a drug experiment. My dear, I feel for you. You are going to have to be the 'action taker' right now. Your hubby is suffering. He's had seizures. His brain is in shock from all these drugs and it sends the whole nervous system into overdrive.

You are going to have to have an action plan and you are going to have to provide a safe place for your husband. First though, I want to be sure you are in a safe place. Is your husband physically abusing you or your family? If he is, you must get out NOW. Sarah, if you are afraid of him, if you feel he is going to hurt you or your family, you MUST GET OUT NOW. Don't do anything else, sign off the computer, get in the car with the kids and go immediately to a safe house for abused women. They will know exactly what to do so you can get your husband help from there.

If your husband isn't abusive or you don't think he will hurt you or you are not afraid of him, we can help you with an action plan from there. I'm just afraid of the 'hurtful' comment you posted, and I don't want you or anyone else to be a victim. Once your safe, we'll figure out what to do. K?

Sarah, I'm on the road all day tomorrow, so I will not be able to post, but I will check tonight and after tomorrow.

BE SAFE SARAH, don't take any chances if you feel you are in any danger.......Hugs...Houdi

[Junior]

Wow Sarah. I only took 60mg for 19 days and have had probs. Dropping him for 120 to 60 in one is go is just crazy! I feel for him..and for you. But look, he has been off it for so long that it would be a backward step going back onto it. In my opinion anyway.

I would suggest seeking out another psychiatrist. Hopefully one that is better informed than your previous one. Tell him / her everything you have told me. I don't even mind if you just print everything off and take it with you. My real name isn't there :) I would also recommend looking at some of the nutritional supports that people here have tried, things like Fish Oil.

I really hope you and hubby can get this sorted and that he can regain his health. To say nothing of you getting your hubby back! And you know what? Given what this drug has done to him, and how hard it is for you guys right now, you would be well within your rights to sue Eli..whoever. The drug company that makes Cymbalta. I don't say that lightly. I'm an Aussie and we don't sue at the drop of a hat - but Eli Lilly are clearly negligent on this one. I'd be inclined to sue for damages.

Keep your chin up. You are doing everything you can and no-one can ask more of you than that :)

[SarahT]

Houdi, no my hubby is not abusive far from it what I ment by hurtful was that see our daughters have been crrawling into bed with me since hubby said he slept better on the couch. And had made the comment that the other morning at abput 4 am would have crawled into bed by me but the bed was full. But Last night he went to use the bathroom and came to check on me to see if I was sleeping (i don't sleep much anymore since the seziours) and I was wide awake and he went down the hall I was thinking he just went to shut off tv and light and when I went down the hall to get some aspein he was awake laying on the couch watching tv. I have told him that I miss him sleeping by me bur I understand why he sleepa on the couch. He is not abusive actally the exact opposite. He is usually the one that stands up for me but can not as of late due to the meds.

Junior , Yes this has put us through a lot but there are no lawsuits out for Elli Lilly as of yet. But I keep looking I plan on joining one when I find one for the side effects. But those of us with withdrawl problems need to find a lawyer to take it on. I wrote a letter to the hispital board about the lady who perscribed the Cymbalta at 120mg. Hubbyuy will be seeing her on wed. to see why she did it if she knew. Any choice questions he should ask?

Sarah

I thank you both I find myself checking here for replys several times a day.

[Junior]

Sarah, what you will need if you want to find a lawyer, is a solid case that they have a chance of winning. (Bear with me, I know you're not stupid.) So you need to find evidence that Eli Lilly were aware of the sorts of side effects that Cymbalta causes and that they were negligent in not passing on the information to Drs and Joe Public. Now, the best way to find that is by searching academic databases. I don't have access to them right now but I'm going to join my old uni's library (Monash here in Australia) as an Alumni and will have limited access to some databases then. I was going to join them anyway, so why not now?

I have come across some other very interesting information that could also be of value to you. I was only reading it myself this morning. I actually got the link from a post in this forum but can't remember exactly where I found it! It goes through a LOT of info, some of it highly technical (about specific parts of the brain, what they normally do and how they are affected by the SSRIs and SNRI's), and difficult to work your way through if you haven't studied the brain. Anyhow, the point is, these drugs CAN and DO bring about 'epileptic activity'. You might want to print this off http://www.antidepre...pinealstory.htm - esp the section on epileptic activity - and keep it for future reference.

As for questions your husband could ask: Did they know of the side effects? If so, why did they tell your hubby? Did they know that some people have a lot of trouble withdrawing from this drug? In fact, did they know that people have trouble withdrawing from ALL of these drugs? My guess is no to all of the above. My guess is that it is the drug company who should be held accountable. They fund most of the research INTO the drugs but only tell people what they want them to know. Otherwise people might not be prescribed and / or buy these drugs.

[Junior]

Crap.. After the question "did they know about the side effects", I meant to say, if so "why DIDN'T they tell your hubby?"

=D

[SarahT]

Hehe Hubby is going to go to this app. with his dad. If I would go I would get into trouble cuz I am pissed.

We have 5 kids, 14, Two are autistic 11 & 8, then two daughters almost 6 and 4

They poked a stick in the cage at the momma lion. lol

I just don't know what we are going to do if hubby can not go back to work. I don,t have any skills and those that don,t need any are only part time with little pay.

[SarahT]

now he lost his job

what r we going to do.......he was the only one working

[Junior]

Sarah, you have autistic offspring? O_O

My 19yo son is autistic!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, can't help with financial probs as you live in the US and I'm in Aussie. I think we have better social security than you guys do. For instance, hubby could apply for the Disability Pension if he lived here. And you could probably get Carers Pension given that with your two ASD kids, you can't really work. Hope you can get some help.

[Junior]

err.... u mentioned April, then Mother's Day. Are you in OZ?

*slaps self*. Get your butt down to Centrelink!!

[Junior]

Sarah, do you have MSN? If so, add me. junior1962@live.com.au

[SarahT]

I am trying to apply and we are going to try to get him on disability my job will not pay enoughlike his did but we are going to fight it.

Tomarrow he has his app with the dr who prescribed the Cymbalta. Hubby wants some answers as to why's and did she knows lol

any questions u think important.

[Junior]

Sarah you have a job? I thought you weren't in paid employment? (raising 5 kids IS working!)

Questions to ask:
Did they know that Cymbalta could cause the side effects suffered by your hubby?
If so, why didn't they tell your hubby?
Did they know that some people have a lot of trouble withdrawing from this drug?

What we need to establish is whether the prescribing doctor has been negligent. If so, then he/ she can be sued. Get your Dad to take some notes on what is said during the appt. That way you have a written record of what was discussed. Plus, you will get your facts straight.

Hmmm....just read something really interesting. My chemist always checks if a script is for a new med. One they haven't take before. If it's is new, they give us a printout with some info. On my copy it says: "Symptoms of an overdose may include drowsiness, convulsions, and vomiting. Symptoms may also include some or all of the following: feeling confused, feeling restless, sweating, shaking, shivering, hallucinations, muscle jerks, fast heart beat."

If your Dr increased hubby's dose from 60mg to 120mg in one jump (instead of going from 60 to 90 then to 120)... he/ she could be held accountable. Hmmmmmmmm...........

[Junior]

Hmmm.. this info also says to tell your DR immediately if you notice any of the following:
- FITS OR SEIZURES.

[SarahT]

Well today sucked big time. Hubby saw the dr that put him on the cymbalta and she was of no help other than showing how incompetant she is.

All she said was did not know that and that and that.
And when asked if she had done reasurch on it before prescribing it she was like yes. But did not know it is not to be prescribed with tramadol wich she did and did not know the limit also said no one she has on it has had problems with it but I expected that answer.

Hubby wants to go after her for it. I am so angry and frusterated and a basket case. Thet is what Cymbalta did to me even though I did not take it . it made me be a basket case worrying over my huubbys health. I have become an angry person with drs if things don't improve a little by the next visit.

I am so tifred of being lied to .
I am tired or crying and feeling like everything is falling appart that is what cymbalta did to me and my kids are sared of daddy taking meds and the seziours.

[Junior]

Sarah, you and your husband have every right to sue this woman. She didn't know it wasn't to be prescribed alongside Tramadol????????????? There is a warning about that on the printout my chemist gave me! It specifically says that some medicines and Cymbalta may interfere with each other. These include: .... strong painkillers such as tramadol, pethidine.
IT IS HER JOB TO KNOW THAT. SHE HAS BEEN NEGLIGENT HERE. You have a strong case. Sue for damages. I would.

You are not alone Sarah. It appears there has been a serious interaction between drugs here and that she has been negligent in her prescribing. You should not only be able to successfully sue her for damages, but also get her stricken off. If she didn't know that she shouldn't have prescribed Tramadol and Cymbalta together, then she should have checked first. THAT IS NEGLIGENCE. How could anyone trust her once they know what has happened here?

BTW you are not falling apart. You are just going through an extremely difficult time. You WILL get through this. It will make you stronger. And I will support you when and where I can :)

Junior

[SarahT]

we will be looking at a pro bono lawyer to sue the dr as far as cymbalta I don't know,

thamks junior