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My Personal Hell, I Can't Escape It


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#1 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:25 AM

Hello all.

I was put on Paxil when I was like eleven or twelve years old, because my mom thought I was too shy.   I was on it until about seven years ago until I was switched to Cymbalta.  I can't remember most of my life since I was twelve.  People always say "Remember when [such and such]?" and I have absolutely no recollection of events.  I am nearly 30 and a virgin because I have zero sex drive and people don't want to have a relationship with a zombie.  I hate my existence, and whenever I would explain this to my doctor, they just increased the dosage of the Cymbalta.

I was on 60 mg a day of Cymbalta for like six years and then 120 mg a day for a year after that.  Nearly three weeks ago the doctor had me taper down to 60 MG and then stop Cymbalta to switch to Brintellix 10mg.  Well, Brintellix made me very ill to where I would nearly throw up in my car while driving.  I quit taking Brintellix and then also quit taking the Cymbalta.  I've been off both medicines for five days (starting sixth day) and I am in a terrible, terrible place.   I am tired of being on medicine and I don't want to be on these medicines for the rest of my existence .  I am sleeping like 12 or 13 hours and I am still fatigued like I have never been.  I have been having "brain zaps" very very bad to where it interrupts me mid-conversation and I forget what I was even talking about.  I will get dizzy and my knee will give out while I am walking and I will stumble.  When I am in bed with my eyes closed I can "hear" my eyes moving back and forth.  My neck is tightened up to the point I can't even turn my head properly.  My chest and stomach muscles are spasming so much they have become very sore.

I have been taking B vitamins but they aren't doing much if anything for me.

I am unable to miss work for this so my productivity is extremely impaired.

Can anyone help me?  I don't even want to be alive feeling like this.  Someone please help me.

Is my only alternative to just go back on Cymbalta forever?


#2 thismoment

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

Hi VIE

Cold turkey following long-term exposure (6 years) is definitely the hell expressed in your namesake. I think you need to wean back on Cymbalta until you are stable (might take 2-3 weeks), and then plan a slow withdrawal over 6 months or so. we can help with this.

Vitamins won't help your current struggle.

If you stay cold turkey you are likely in for some very uncomfortable weeks and months. Slow weaning can eliminate most of the symptoms you are experiencing.

Your libido will return too and possibilities will blossom. But right now, to be sure-- vita inferni est, but in time you might discover that nam sine amor vita est quasi mortis imago.

Best wishes.

#3 TryinginFL

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 09:05 AM

Welcome VIE! 

 

We're so happy that you have found us... I am so sorry for the symptoms you are currently experiencing.  Unfortunately, C. has a half life of only 12 hours, so you are in cold turkey withdrawal the day after you stop taking it.  I must confess to having no knowledge of Brintellix, but it sounds as if you weren't on it very long.  At this point, I think the withdrawal from the C. is the problem.

 

There is a method to come off this drug called Bead Counting.  Using this, you are in control and the withdrawal is kept to a bare minimum.  Since you have been on this for so long, this would be my suggestion. First, you need to get back on the C. at a dosage where you are comfortable and become stable.  After about a week of being stable, you could then begin to bead count your way down.  There is a topic called Bead Counting - How To Do It under the Are You New Here? and I suggest that you check it out - it is loaded with info!  Should you decide to do this, you can come back with your questions and we will help you.

 

If this is the case, we need to know if you are on the name brand (Eli Lilly) or a generic.  We also need to know the number of beads in a capsule.  Yes, this means taking one apart and counting all of those nasty little things!  We have members here who can set up a precise down dosing schedule for you.

 

As I have been typing this, I see that TM has already answered with his much admired wisdom!  He can help you with this!  I am a cold turkey survivor of over 14 months now, and believe me, you DON'T want to take this route!

 

I wish you the best and the one thing that I hope will make you feel better, as well as reinstating the drug until you feel comfortable and stable, is your age is most definitely in your favor.  So go take another C and get started feeling better!

 

Liz


#4 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:39 AM

Thanks for the replies!

I will need to go refill my Cymbalta, I suppose, if I am to go back on it and then wean off of it.

 

Here's the point of confusion for me, though:

I feel like I have been getting "better" the longer I have been off of the meds.  I have times where I feel completely normal.  The beginning and end of the day are usually the worst times.

 

I have friends who have come off of Cymbalta and they are telling me "DO NOT go back on again, you will just shock your system.  Give it two weeks and you will feel better"

 

I am going to talk to the doctor on Friday so I honestly will likely hold off taking anything until I speak with him on Friday.

 

The advice you are providing is invaluable, however, and I will likely need to follow your instructions.

Thanks for your time and replies.

 

Since I am feeling 'better' than I was two or three days ago, I was sort of leaning towards waiting it out.

 

Do you think I am foolish for trying to wait another week ?


#5 thismoment

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:16 AM

VIE

You have to satisfy yourself to preclude creating regrets. Take whatever time you need to convince yourself one way or the other. It's positive to learn you have 'normal' periods during the day.

Keep us in the loop.

#6 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:36 AM

Thanks a lot you guys, I feel better just knowing this forum exists.

 

When I had tapered to 60mg/day, I then started pouring out more-and-more of the little beads to try and get it as close as I could to 30mg/day or less.  The final couple days, I only left about 1/5 of the 60mg pills' beads inside.  I wasn't exact at all, and was literally just eyeballing it. (probably bad?)

 

I will try to post as I continue through this and let everyone know how I am faring.
  Thanks again.


#7 fishinghat

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:58 AM

I would normaly be in full agreement with TM and TFL first opinion but if you think you are feeling a little better each day think I might try to stick it out if it is bearable.


#8 Sis

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 05:01 PM

Dear Newbie,

 

   Take it from another Newbie who survived a very similar experience, abrupt termination after 8 years and a final dosage of 120mg, PLEASE listen to those who advocate bead counting. You may be feeling okay today, or even for a couple of days, but it won't last. Only you know how you feel and only you know your brain and body, but based on personal experience and my reading here and other places it seems that returning to your last dose of Cymbalta and then slowly tapering down is the way to go. Again, only you know what's best for you, and that includes whatever doctors have prescribed, but take some time to read through the other posts on this site before making a decision to do this "cold turkey".

   And, like your other respondents, I am glad you found this supportive and informative place to share and learn from others.

--Sis


#9 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:36 AM

My "waves" of discomfort and withdrawal symptoms have been lessening over the past two days.  Last night was the first time in five days I had not just collapsed onto the couch as soon as I got home from work.  I was tired, but I was able to have a normal evening instead of just sleeping through fatigue and withdrawal.  I woke up this morning very tired - but without any brain zaps or imbalance.  I do indeed feel like I am getting "better."

 

I will talk to my doctor on Friday and see what he thinks.  I have upped my homeopathic medicines to: Vitamin B Complex Coenzymes, Omega 3/6/9 - the latter seem to actually make a difference.

 

Do you think it's a placebo, or could the Omega complex actually be helping?

 

On a side note (TMI warning) I am pooping normally for the first time in a decade.


#10 thismoment

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 07:42 AM

VIE

Good work! It sounds like your withdrawal is remaining light-- and will likely remain so. There could be a symptom wave or two that might appear later on, and then fade as mysteriously as it arose.

I think Omega 3 is a good idea. Placebo effect occurs in the mind of the beholder; in tests placebos work virtually as well as antidepressants.

If your libido was affected on the drug, that will start to revive too. Its important to note, however, that while sex can put a smile on your face, there's nothing as underrated as a good poop!

I think you out of the woods. Time to get back in the dance; carpe diem!

Take care.


#11 TryinginFL

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:10 AM

TM,

 

Love that post - and so right on! :P :D


#12 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:45 PM

You guys are great :)

 

So today, this is how it went:

 

Woke up feeling about 60%

*Ate small breakfast*

Mid morning to 50%

*Ate big early lunch*

Early afternoon to 30%

*Walked up a steep hill at work*

Later Afternoon to 85%

Early Evening at 80%

*Ate medium sized dinner*

Currently about 75%

 

It seems to bob-and-weave throughout the day.  I did talk a walk early afternoon when I was feeling the worst and it seemed to help a lot! I might start excersizing more if it will cause me to feel better.

 

Thanks all!  I will keep posting as I go through this just because I think it's interesting and maybe other people can read it and it will help them.  I am not out of the woods yet!  For example, today around 1:30 PM was some of the worst fatigue and "brain fog" I have had throughout the withdrawal.

 

Est et portabo

 

[EDIT]

 

Late Evening now... at 40% going to bed early....  I thought I was getting through this but now I'm not sure....  Arg.


#13 thismoment

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:37 PM

VIE

There's a link between serotonin drugs and gastro-intestinal discomfort. A glance at your day log shows a decline in the energy/mood quotient following a meal. Not uncommon!

Snack very lightly throughout the day rather than eating a full meal-- a piece of fruit; half a sandwich; water. Stay a little hungry always. Don't eat anything 4 hours before going to bed because you are living on the threshold of nausea, and you won't sleep.

These difficulties will slowly fade away as you ascend toward equilibrium and health. Per aspera ad alta.

Take care.

#14 Sis

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:34 PM

Vie,

 

   First I must apologize in advance for communicating in my teaching mode.

    I see a couple of really positive signs from this last post so KUDOS to you. I am not a doctor, well not a medical doctor, but I have done a lot of research over the last year or so. As always, remember that we are all different in every way, biologically, genetically, psychologically, life experiences and all of these aspects play a part in how we respond to anything we put in our body. This is a nice quick summary of the way the neurotransmitters we think of as being in the brain moderating our moods, thoughts, etc. are also very active in our digestive system. .... The gut contains 100 million neurons - more than the spinal cord. Major neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, norephinephrine and nitric oxide are in the gut. Also two dozen small brain proteins, called neuropeptides are there along with the major cells of the immune system. Enkephalins (a member of the endorphins family) are also in the gut. The gut also is a rich source of benzodiazepines - the family of psychoactive chemicals that includes such ever popular drugs as valium and xanax. Thus, it makes total sense that adjustments of neurotransmitters impact our brains and our bowels.

   Second, Omega-3 has a lot of solid science demonstrating its key role in all kinds of biological processes, including the function of those finicky neurotransmitters. While supplements are good, its always better to consume any nutrient from its original food source. No one knows how all the micronutrients interact, or even what they are. So, lots of Salmon, Tuna, and even trout.

   Third, the way you are recording your daily experience is such a good idea. I have just started doing it myself and it is making a huge difference. When it feels so bad, and I am so low, it helps enormously to page through days past to see that there are better days. Its a way to remind myself not to give in to the feeling that it will always be this bad.

   I hope that your journey through this is as painless as possible.

-Sis


#15 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 11:45 AM

Thanks for all the great replies since my last post.

 

Sis: you have nothing to apologize for at all!  Your information is awesome and the entire reason I made this thread was to get feedback, like what you posted.  Your latest post has a wealth of information, and explains why clonazepam may have helped setttle me down during my first three "days of hell" of cymbalta withdrawal  (I take this medicine as SPARINGLY as possible: I use it only for extreme panic attacks where I hyperventilate to the point of losing balance / shaking uncontrollably / unable to work due to anxiety... I have taken maybe a total of five tablets in three months! I don't want to get hooked on yet another medicine for daily usage!)

 

Yesterday (Friday) I felt pretty good the whole day, with occaisonal shakiness and brain fog.  The most prevalent feature of the day was the fatigue and insomnia combo.  I went to bed really early, but woke up every few hours.  ALSO, I have been waking up at night with extreme thirst.  Over the night period, I often down two or three bottles of water. Anyone know if this is part of the withdrawal?

 

Today (Saturday) I woke up at around 3 AM local time, and was unable to sleep.  I played some games until 5 AM and then went back to sleep until 8:30 AM when I got up for good.  I am having some brain zaps when I close my eyes or move my eyes too quickly, and I'm still a little shaky!

 

Overall, however, my well-being is much, much improved from seven/eight days ago when I started this ordeal.  Still not 100%, but I don't expect to be 100% for a long while, judging from what I am hearing from you guys.  I will take 85% though ;)  Better than 30% :D

 

Again, thanks everyone!


#16 gail

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 04:30 PM

Vie,

Definitely looking good! Very wise of you not to expect 100%.

Much much improved, you say. Do expect downs, as progress is not linear.

Please keep posting as this may help other newbies to keep hope.
Your young age definitely helps you!

#17 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:13 AM

Hey again:  I seem to be through the mental withdrawal - or at least the worst of it.

 

I am having physical symptoms, and I wanted to see if you think these are cymbalta-withdrawal related, or completely unrelated:

  • Wake up every morning with very tight neck muscles
  • Muscular pain on left side of body including the hand
  • Vivid nightmares every night
  • Waking up in the middle of night (sometimes from said nightmares)
  • Mood swings / Random waves of sorrow
  • Constant stomach burning/aching sensation - especially an hour or two after a meal

Thanks again for your information and support!  Aside from the fun stuff I just posted, I feel a lot better than when I first went off the Cymbalta (thankfully!)


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:25 AM

I can tell you the last 4 are common. Myself, I didn't have any problems with the first 2.


#19 TryinginFL

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 09:01 AM

Hi VIE,

 

I am one who also had your first 2 symptoms.  I do have fibro and arthritis but never as much pain as when I got off this crap drug.  My neck muscles were so bad that I could hardly turn my head enough to back out of my driveway - the pain was horrible!  I don't feel that the pain on your left side is necessarily just the left side - I had pain in many places that I previously did not.  Many members have complained of muscle aches and pains and they did not have fibro.

 

I am so sorry for what you are going through - may I offer a suggestion?  I go once a week for a therapeutic massage and I started this when my neck muscles were so sore.  I can't remember exactly how long it took, but eventually my therapist was able to work that out and I have had no problems since.  I still have the fibro pain which is why I continue with the massages and they are extremely helpful.  My insurance pays for them as long as I get a RX from my Dr. every 90 days.  I have been doing this for over 1 1/2 years now.  You might like to give it a try.

 

You will get through this even though it seems that it will go on forever!  It's definitely interesting how some symptoms fade and others appear - such is the withdrawal/discontinuation of this crap!

 

Another thing you might try which has been a help to some, is Epsom salts baths.  Many swear it has been so helpful because the magnesium can get into your system through your skin.  Just another thought... I personally did not do this.

 

Please keep us informed of your progress - we are always here for you! 

 

Liz


#20 gail

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 10:58 AM

Vie,

The first one was a tough one. Hot baths and heating pad were my best friends. My shoulders were up to my ears, so tense!

#21 thismoment

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 12:18 PM

VIE

"I am having physical symptoms, and I wanted to see if you think these are cymbalta-withdrawal related, or completely unrelated:"

This question you asked is important for you and to others struggling to be free of psychiatric drugs-- therefore I have quoted it.

First, the dilemma expressed in the question is entirely understandable: "What's happening to me? Is this withdrawal? Is it the return of depression? Or is it the beginning of some new condition, syndrome, or disease?" Of course it could be any of these-- but what is most likely? Is it prudent to wait and see, or should I start taking another psychiatric drug right away?

When I walk into the doctor's office expressing these symptoms-- and if the doctor was trained that withdrawal only lasts a week or so-- well, clearly the doc will think an old condition has returned or some new medical condition has begun. Swish!! Out comes the prescription pad.

I've always used the Ulysses metaphor for this: you have to tie yourself to the mast for 6 months until you sail past the siren song of the withdrawal symptoms. When you are dependent on a drug your brain NEEDS the drug, and it will do and say anything to get it!

I sympathize with your current symptoms; they are very familiar.

-A weekly neck and shoulder massage helped me a great deal.
-Aches and pains seemed to move around from left to right and between muscles and joints.
-Nightmares were vivid, macabre, and frightening.
-I awoke destabilized, feeling detached from loved ones, quietly scrambling around in a dark house.
-Mood swings are normal. But remember you can't take anything back, so if you possess a margin of control-- use it.
-When you are alone and feel safe let the crying run its course-- just cry cry cry. It's okay to wring it out-- just let it go.
-The GI issues may be with you for some time. Eat smaller portions. Try soda water after a meal.

Please note that all of the symptoms fade away. Park your expectations (the future) and just keep moving moment to moment, and in time the symptoms will occupy less and less of your mental bandwidth. You will be free.

Take care.


#22 Sis

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:52 PM

VIE,

 

   I am also struggling with the question, "which of these symptoms are the result of what?

 

  It's probably impossible to say with 100% certainty that any particular symptom is the result of Cymbalta Withdrawal. Reading through the posts here seems to provide strong evidence that there are some common and predictable symptoms.

 

   I too had horrible nightmares when I discontinued, but I also had them when I was on the medication. The difference seems to be that after stopping I woke up and could remember the nightmare. Luckily for me, at least, these ended about a month after withdrawal. So, hopefully you will see the end of these soon.

 

 I have suffered with extreme fatigue for years and years, and for the first couple of months off the drug it was the usual fatigue. But, for the last 5 weeks I have been feeling fatigue and sorrow sweep over me. These attacks (i use the word because the feeling is so sudden) seem to happen between late morning and late afternoon. Which seems really weird, because I am always more tired for the first hour I am up and after 7pm.

 

 It might be the case that your nightmares are causing your body to become very tense which manifests in your neck and body. I would encourage you to keep a sleep log to see if there is any correlation between muscle pain and nightmares. One of the awful problems with stress is that it can have weird effects and then we stress further about those weird symptoms. Keeping the journal will help you begin to see some patterns that may allay your concern.

 

   I also strongly recommend Epsom salt baths, especially in the evening. I had a hard time believing that we absorb and properly process magnesium through out skin, we do but the concentration has to be fairly high. I routinely add 2 cups of epsom and a couple drops of Lavendar Additionally, taking magnesium and calcium in the evening can aid sleep. Make sure that the calcium is able to dissolve. I recently found out that calcium supplements in tablet form, or included as part of a multi-vitamin, are probably not being absorbed because our digestive systems don't break it down. The best choice are one of the many chewable forms.

 

 I hope you soon find relief and are able to get a good night's sleep.

 

Sis

 

 


#23 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:11 AM

Thanks for the advice; I plan on taking it.

 

I think I am either still withdrawing, or just back into the throws of depression.  I'm completely cynical, lonely, and bitter to everyone I know.  Coworkers have noticed this change.  2015 is the year of hell.

 

Everyone says "go to therapy" but I have no intention of doing this.

 

Haha, I guess I am a fool who is content to be miserable :)

 

Thanks again for the support; I will try the salts bath.


#24 gail

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:02 PM

Vie,

You are in withdrawal. And personnaly, as for therapy, I don't believe in it while in withdrawal. Unless it is to give you tricks as how to manage the symptoms.

Have you thought of easing the withdrawal with a low dose of let's say Zoloft? Just a thought here. Hope all goes for the best!

#25 thismoment

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:44 PM

VIE

I understand cynicism, loneliness, and bitterness: they comprise a nuclear family that generates its own fuel within the furnace of an internal vicious cycle. What therapy can do is broaden your understanding and help you interrupt cycles like this.

Mindfulness proved to be very helpful for me, but only after I settled down some in withdrawal; during the period when I was frantic and distraught, everything went in one ear and out the other. Give yourself some time. Keep the anxiety down and find some distractions to help silence that admonishing voice in your head.

Take care.

#26 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 02:55 PM

Ok thanks again guys; I was thinking, "I am through the withdrawal - this is now how my life will be from now on. I have to learn to deal with it."  However, according to you guys I am still in withdrawal-mode, so that gives me hope. 

 

I appreciate the support.

 

 

I understand cynicism, loneliness, and bitterness: they comprise a nuclear family that generates its own fuel within the furnace of an internal vicious cycle. What therapy can do is broaden your understanding and help you interrupt cycles like this.

 

Amen.  I was raised in a psuedo-1950's style household up until I was a teen, and then I was thrown into the 'real world' where nothing made sense to me.  I think my jarred reaction to the culture shock was what triggered my mother to put me on Paxil (and then to Cymbalta).


#27 gail

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 03:26 PM

Vie,

Without any doubts, this is withdrawal and can last a while. Most begin to have good days around week 12, followed by bad ones. That was my case, but this is another story!

You are about one month off and that after a long time on ad's. Of course you feel like s***.

But, in your favor, is the age factor. A lot of us are over the 50 bracket, it is harder for us.

You experiencing any anxiety through this?

Keep posting Vie, you will feel less alone in this.♥

#28 VitaInferniEst

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:24 PM

Yes I am having a lot of anxiety.  I will work for like eleven hours each weekday, cry driving home, and then my family scolds me for stopping medication because I am depressed.  I am getting a lot of pressure to go back on medicine from my family, and they won't listen to me. Anytime they see me feeling down I am nigh-harrassed to start taking new antidepressants.  At this point, sleep is my only solace, and yet it is often filled with vivid nightmares of being tortured.

 

Haha :)

 

 

:)

 

 

:(


#29 thismoment

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:02 PM

VitaInferniEst

I see you're having anxiety along with the other symptoms. Anxiety is the ultimate de-stabilizer, and you should probably have some meds to help keep it down while you work your way through withdrawal.

I'm sorry to hear you're being judged by your family, and you're not given the space you require to engage these symptoms effectively-- you need the freedom to cry and mourn and rant in an atmosphere of acceptance, compassion, and love. Can you move out and stay with a balanced and sympathetic friend for a few months?

Nightmares and dreams are often the continuation of the day's mind state; one could effectively argue that your day is rife with torture. I wish you strength, confidence, and freedom.

Take care.


#30 TryinginFL

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

Hello VIE,

 

I'm so sorry that your family is not being supportive - you are going through something that they could never understand.  TM had a great suggestion if you can do it.

 

I agree that you need something for the anxiety as it may hang around for quite some time.  Do you have a benzo?  If you don't want to use that, there is also Hydroxyzine and Clonidine - you can check with your Dr.  Another suggestion is Benadryl - many have found that this is a great help with the anxiety and of course, it's an OTC med!

 

I had terrible "freezing" anxiety for about 2 months and took Alprazolam (Xanax) up to 3mg /day.  I had never had anxiety in my life until after taking this poison drug.  If you have something to take, it will make life a whole lot easier!

 

I wish you the best and please keep posting to let us know of your progress - we are always here for you!

 

Liz





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