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About To Act On Plan..little Help?


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#31 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:32 PM

Weighing each size "bead" for each daily dose will be enough to put me on this medication...  

​I'm going to have to become a pharmacist for a day AND "make" ALL her daily doses for a 30 day span and them put them in a pill scheduler container.. 

Starting @ 30 mg..so, Day 1..29 mg, Day 2..28 mg, Day 3..27 mg, and so on until the weight zeros out..which at this rate would be 30 days.

Is a deduction of 1 mg (from 30 mg) per day to quick or to slow? 

​I'll wait for your reply..Thanks.


#32 fishinghat

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:42 PM

This won't work. Each bead is not pure medicine . It contains many other ingredients. So you are going to have to weight out the total weight of the beads in a capsule. This will not be 30 mg but more like 800 or 900 mg because of the filler, binder, time release coating, etc.

 

Lets say it is 900 mg total weight. Then the next day you will need to weight out 891 mg of beads to drop 1% and the next day 882nmgs, etc. This will give you 100 days to complexly come off the Cymbalta. If you get the scales and weight all the beads in say 3 capsules I will help you do the math and set you up a schedule. If you want to try for 30 days that's OK too. We can do that. 


#33 gail

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    5 months on cymbalta, scary side effects, to get help and to return the favor if I can.

Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:42 PM

Hi Colin,

$475. Wow, how crazy can you get! All that for let's say, poison. I was on the brand, no cost, supplied by my doctor. So I don't know what the beads look like. In Canada, it's so so much cheaper.

Seems like a lot of trouble here to be exact in the bead counting, but then if you go real slow, meaning real slow, like one of two beads at a time, I don't see the problem. And why create them, life is messy enough! Don't you think?

Of course, at the end, it could be more problematic and then you go by one bead a day or every two days. And please, don't touch the Seroquel for the time being. Your mom might need it. And perhaps for a long time. And much more easier to come off. I know, I did it in a month or two.
Unlike benzos that can take two and more years to get off.

My thoughts Colin. I wish you a good Christmas time with your mom, at least a calm one! Lovexx

#34 fishinghat

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

Hey, Colin. What is the generic brand of Cymbalta you are using?


#35 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:58 PM

This won't work. Each bead is not pure medicine . It contains many other ingredients. So you are going to have to weight out the total weight of the beads in a capsule. This will not be 30 mg but more like 800 or 900 mg because of the filler, binder, time release coating, etc.

 

Lets say it is 900 mg total weight. Then the next day you will need to weight out 891 mg of beads to drop 1% and the next day 882nmgs, etc. This will give you 100 days to complexly come off the Cymbalta. If you get the scales and weight all the beads in say 3 capsules I will help you do the math and set you up a schedule. If you want to try for 30 days that's OK too. We can do that. 

I see what you are saying fishinghat..  I did NOT realize the weight of the capsule included all that "extra" stuff..it makes sense now.

 

​Also..Are you saying that it should take 100 days to get off Cymbalta from 30 mg? In your opinion...Is this the safest way to get off this medication?

​As for a scale, I found one on Amazon like you suggested that has a good rating.  Won't be in again until after Christmas, but looks good.

Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.c...scale milligram


#36 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 06:01 PM

fishinghat the brand of Cymbalta that we have here is...Duloxetine HCL DR 30, MFG..APOTEX CORP


#37 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 06:08 PM

Hi Colin,

$475. Wow, how crazy can you get! All that for let's say, poison. I was on the brand, no cost, supplied by my doctor. So I don't know what the beads look like. In Canada, it's so so much cheaper.

Seems like a lot of trouble here to be exact in the bead counting, but then if you go real slow, meaning real slow, like one of two beads at a time, I don't see the problem. And why create them, life is messy enough! Don't you think?

Of course, at the end, it could be more problematic and then you go by one bead a day or every two days. And please, don't touch the Seroquel for the time being. Your mom might need it. And perhaps for a long time. And much more easier to come off. I know, I did it in a month or two.
Unlike benzos that can take two and more years to get off.

My thoughts Colin. I wish you a good Christmas time with your mom, at least a calm one! Lovexx

Hi Gail.. :P

​How you doing today?  I hope and pray you're as fine as can be.  Are you staying warm this winter up there in Quebec?  Looks pretty cold from where I'm standing. 

​Thanks for the thoughts with your last post..we will take it easy and one step at a time with the medications..Not fun and would rather be doing something else, but this is the hand we are dealt at this time and Mom and I, God willing, are going to conquer this one together..

​Wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas.

​God Bless.

​Colin


#38 fishinghat

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 06:12 PM

That looks like a great set of scales and should do you well. I am going to see what I can find out about APOTEX CORP version of Cymbalta.

 

Thanks


#39 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 06:20 PM

​Alright fishinghat..!!  Thanks for being there and just in case we don't speak until after this weekend...

MERRY CHRISTMAS..!!!


#40 fishinghat

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 06:41 PM

Merry Christmas to you Colin. May you be blessed.

 

Apotex is the largest Canadian drug company with an excellent compliance history. The cheapest brand name (by Eli Lilley) I can find is $190 for 84 capsules at 30 mg each. Eli Lilley does have am Eli Lilley Cares program which offers meds (including Cymbalta) free or at little cost but you income must be below poverty levels. Oh Well.


#41 crbach

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 07:03 PM

​I have a script (and plenty of refills) for the medication BUT my Mom's insurance ONLY covered the generic and that mfg is Apotex..  The cost for my Mom for the generic Cymbalta from Apotex is only $15.00 for 60 units of 30 mg capsules..so I have what I need for a great price...my only concern WAS that the generic brand had all sorts of sized "beads" and the counting method was going to be impossible to systematically taper using those uneven sized "beads"...

 

​BUT now we have a revised plan to overcome this using a digital scale, patience and your support/mathematics..

​Still I have that question for you fishinghat...Do you see that it will take an additional 100 days to safely taper my Mom from 30 mg to ZERO?

​Many blessing to you and yours fishinghat...!!


#42 fishinghat

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:16 AM

Not necessarily cr.

 

I would start at the 1% drop each day and then go to 2% a day, etc. as tolerated. It is easier to start slow and build up then to start to high and get in trouble. On more thing. It takes (usually 4 or 5 days for symptoms to hit so if you start at the 1% rate then I would stay at that rate for 4 or 5 days before assuming it is safe to go to 2% a day.

 

When you get down to the last 5% go very slow. That is when things get real bad real quick.


#43 crbach

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 12:44 PM

From the sounds of it..this last 30 mg is going to be one tough battle, BUT I'm SO glad I did the research as well as found you and this support group before I made some lame attempt at getting this poison out of my Mom..who knows how bad things could have gotten.

 

I'll write again as soon as I get the scale from Amazon and that should be sometime in the middle of next week.

 

Thanks again fishinghat...you truly are one of my Christmas Blessings.


#44 crbach

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

Happy New Year EVERYONE..!!

 

Fishinghat..I finally got the scale yesterday and it's definitely going to help with the last 30 mg of this Cymbalta taper...BUT..

 

I have a concern with the Lithium my Mom is on.  It appears to be the one medication that is interacting with my Mom on a daily/hourly basis and stirring up all sorts of adverse effects (hand shakes, body trembling, memory issues, thought process interruptions, nausea, etc..) that are not only bothering her but, are starting to worry me especially when we are trying to get her off the Cymbalta first...  I'm most concerned with too many side effects happening from more than one medication, especially during this period of tapering for the last 30 mg dosage of Cymbalta.  I don't want, and neither does my Mom, the side effects from Lithium getting in the cross hairs of the withdrawal symptoms from the Cymbalta taper..  Does this make sense..????

 

Arrrr.  This dilemma is getting me so darn frustrated so I thought I'd ask you about getting her off the Lithium (600 mg/day..300 morning and 300 evening) before we proceed with the last 30 mg of Cymbalta.  We have been down to the 30 mg of Cymbalta for 3 weeks now without any problems SO I thought this might be a better time to try to remove the Lithium before we continue the Cymbalta taper.

 

That doctor only prescribed that medication because that's what he prescribes all his patients from that facility where my Mom ended up...they treat everyone as is they have a bi-polar issue which my Mom NEVER had...

 

Sorry if my questions/thoughts are confusing and or senseless, it's just I'm scared for my Mom and don't want her to have to suffer any more than she has to..

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks MUCH..

Colin


#45 fishinghat

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 06:45 PM

I will do some checking.


#46 fishinghat

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 06:54 PM

Lithium withdrawal is not fun. Duhhh!

 

Like most withdrawals the slower the better. If the person has been on it more than 2 years they recommend dropping 10% a month.

 

I would suggest rather than a one time 10% drop every 30 days to do a 1% drop every 3 days so that the shock to the body is not so much.So you are talking about a 10 month wean. If there is other info you need on lithium withdrawal please feel free to let me know.


#47 crbach

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 07:00 PM

My Mom used to be able to list actors, directors, and producers from movies she watches without any issues...now, she can't even put the words together to name even the leading actor in that particular movie..She is getting super frustrated not being able to use her brain anymore let alone not being able to eat without her hand shaking like crazy as she uses her silverware.  She never had these issue(s) prior to 3 months ago when she was put on this poison...

 

So..Any extra information you can find in regards to my "concerns" would be greatly appreciated...

 

Thanks fishinghat.


#48 crbach

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 07:03 PM

She has only been on Lithium for 3 months TOPS...now at 600 mg.  Do you still feel that a taper will take that long?  10 months??  I'll have to do some additional digging on this.  Thanks.


#49 fishinghat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:40 AM

If she has only been on it 3 months then she might be able to withdraw faster BUT I would recommend starting with the 1% drop a day for a couple week and if there is no issues then slowly increase the drop rate. I know it is frustrating but you want success. The slower you go the less suffering and the better the chance of successfully withdrawing. There have to be some websites out there on lithium withdrawal who can also give you advice. I will check a few things myself and post what I find.


#50 fishinghat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:53 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2429573/
http://lithiumwithdrawal.com/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7652226
https://www.ncbi.nlm...2?dopt=Abstract
https://medlineplus....icle/002667.htm
I would really suggest you read this.

 

It surprised me on the limited amount of information out there on this subject.

 

Still digging.


#51 fishinghat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:10 AM

https://dailymed.nlm...3e-47a13cd18dd1

There is NO comments or mention of lithium withdrawal or discontinuance on the drug inserts for Lithium. If interested on the information then you can go to the site above, type in the specific name of the drug she is taking. On the list of manufacturers that pops up find hers on the list and click on that. The specific insert sheet will come up for your review.

http://www.accessdat...8558s021lbl.pdf

5.8 Hypercalcemia and Hyperparathyroidism
Long-term lithium treatment is associated with persistent hyperparathyroidism and hypercalcemia. When clinical manifestations of hypercalcemia are present, lithium withdrawal and change to another mood stabilizer may be necessary. Hypercalcemia may not resolve upon discontinuation of lithium, and may requir e surgical inter vention. Lithium-induced cases of hyperparathyroidism are more often multiglandular compared to standard cases. False hypercalcemia due to plasma volume depletion resulting from nephrogenic diabetes insipidus should be excluded in individuals with mildly increased serum calcium. Monitor serum calcium concentrations regularly.
From FDA website above.


#52 crbach

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 12:06 PM

​Thanks for all the "extra" digging fishinghat.  I also spent the better part of last evening doing the same and coming to similar conclusions about there being limited (at best) information in regards to Lithium discontinuation.  Frustrating and it's starting to make me dizzy.

​I read a quite a bit on Lithium toxicity and I don't see this as the problem..yet.  BUT before things get worse, getting her off this poison has now become the highest priority for me and her.  As for the Cymbalta discontinuation and reaching 0..this will have to wait until completely off the Lithium.  Wouldn't you agree??

​I did find ONE similar example to my Mom's situation in my digging.  A woman who was on 800 mg for 4 months needed to discontinue as quick as possible because of similar side effects.  Her doctor had her go from 800 --> 600 mg and hold for 2 weeks...then 600 --> 400 mg and hold for two weeks...then 400 --> 200 mg and hold.. then just stop.  She experienced little to no side effects doing the discontinuation in this way AND within 2 weeks of stoppage ALL her side effects were gone..

​I'm thinking about doing a similar plan of action..  600 --> 400 mg and hold...then 400 --> 200 mg and hold...then 200 -->0 mg AND PRAY..!!

 

Thanks again for the much needed support. 

 

Have a nice week fishinghat..!!!


#53 fishinghat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 01:49 PM

"​I read a quite a bit on Lithium toxicity and I don't see this as the problem..yet. BUT before things get worse, getting her off this poison has now become the highest priority for me and her. As for the Cymbalta discontinuation and reaching 0..this will have to wait until completely off the Lithium. Wouldn't you agree??"

 

I agree

 

That sounds like a plan. By the way did you find the list of withdrawal symptoms? The reason I ask is that if that withdrawal becomes to bad then you may need to go back up some on the dose and then start tapering a little slower.

 

You are doing a fine job CR. Keep us posted.


#54 crbach

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 02:36 PM

​Yes fishinghat..I found that list of Lithium withdrawal symptoms...I almost have the darn thing memorized...not to mention that ALL the other meds have the same "symptoms" as a side effects.  What a mess..!!

​Thanks again for the support and I'll keep you posted.


#55 crbach

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 02:48 PM

​One more thing fishinghat...

My Mom's lithium again is 600 mg total.  300mg./morning...300mg./evening. 

Using that scale I just got...(in your opinion) should I deduct evenly from EACH dose as I move along with the plan I laid out above? 

​So going from 600 --> 400 mg then I should make the daily dose of 400 by making 200mg./morning ... 200mg./evening.....  and so on..

​Does this seem like the right approach to you??


#56 fishinghat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 03:00 PM

In regard to your last post, absolutely. Great plan. I will pray for her speedy recovery.


#57 crbach

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 03:07 PM

​We'll gladly welcome the prayers..Thanks!


#58 crbach

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:40 PM

Hi Fishinghat, Hi Gail, Hi everyone!

 

Quick update for you.

 

Last time I posted I was preparing for the taper of Lithium.  If you remember, my Mom ""WAS"" on 600 mg per day (300 mg morning, 300 mg evening) and the side effects were horrible and were interfering with getting her off the Cymbalta...so I discontinued the taper of Cymbalta (at 30 mg currently) and took on the challenge of Lithium.

 

First off..and if you don't already know, those Lithium pills you can NOT separate..so I got her Doctor to prescribe the lowest dosage which 150 mg.  Then I worked in 7-10 day intervals to reduce my Mom's intake a Lithium to zero..with pretty good results in that the withdrawal side effects were very limited..but where still present even after only her short term use of 4 months.  (FYI..like clock work, the same side effects **nauseous, headaches, sleep interruptions** always reared their ugly head right at day 3-4 of each taper.)

 

Here is what it looked like using the 600 mg as total daily intake.

Day one..Took away 150 mg from the evening dose.

Day 10....Took away 150 mg from the morning dose..

Day 17....Took away the last 150 mg from the evening.

Day 27....Took away the last 150 mg from the morning.

Gave an additional 10 days to allow her mind to rest.

 

The good news is, other than we're done with that drug, is that her sleep has returned to normal, her hair has stopped falling out, her body shakes and tremors have ALL completely stopped and last but now least, her memory is back and starting to fire on all cylinders...Thanks Be To God..!!!

 

Last week we started to reduce her Seroquel because this to has become an issue, like I've state before.  Started at 150 mg per day and have been dropping by 25 mg every 10 days.  Currently we're at 100 mg daily..(25 mg day, 75 mg night).   So far so good..

 

When I get the Seroquel down to only 25 or 50 mg, then I'm going to start the Cymbalta taper again..I'm thinking that keeping the Seroquel at a lowered dose just might help her get through the last 30 mg of Cymbalta...Any thoughts on this???

 

I'm still in the fight here and think of and pray for you all daily.  Hope you're doing as well as can be expected.

 

Thanks again for "being there".

 

Your friend,

Colin


#59 fishinghat

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:44 PM

Great report Colin and I especially appreciate the info on the lithium withdrawal. You have had some great success and I am sure your  mom appreciates your efforts. Staying on some Seroquel, esp at night, is a good idea as it will help with the insomnia from the Cymbalta withdrawal. Hang in there you are doing great!!!


#60 crbach

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:28 PM

Thanks Fishinghat.

 

Here is a link that Mental Health Daily provides on "Lithium Withdrawal Symptoms" that I thought you might like to have handy.

http://mentalhealthd...-possibilities/

 

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

Colin.





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