308 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

This is the best I could find.


https://www.healthce...shelflife-xanax

Answer
According to experts, most prescriptions are still potent long past their expiration date - which is typically 2 to 3 years. It may be somewhat less potent or it could just as potent as it ever was. The expiration date does not indicate that a drug is no longer good - it simply indicates a date at which a drug manufacturer guarantees that it is good. A large Air Force study in conjunction with the FDA concluded that most drugs are good long past their expiration dates and they use them past their expiration dates.

[KathyInFL]

Thanks Hat! I only take one once in awhile, when I have anxiety.... like this week. So I try to only take 1 (.5) every couple of days. I don't want to get hooked on these things!

[invalidusername]

Exactly what we were speaking about yesterday Kathy. It is usually around 2 years, but Hat is right that they would simply loose potency and will in no way be harmful. I was given some Valium by a friend a long while ago, and I had one to help with pain at the time and was quite strong - it was a 10mg! So I kept the last few in case I ever needed them again, which was about 4 years later and I was surprised that they had no effect whatsoever...

[Vinpin]

Hi KathyInFL,

 

Thought I would chime in here on your thread, since we have three things in common - the Cymbalta Withdrawal, not working a full-time job, and hearing loss. I have a separate thread on my progress weaning off that I just posted to today, you can find it in the "Weaning off" forum topic. Have been working on the weaning off almost one full year (yikes!!!). Down to 5 beads now ..... making slow but steady progress....(yay!)

 

Due to my hearing loss, I had to stop work five years ago after 32 years as a Marketing Statistician/Analyst. I couldn't handle conference calls, large meetings, client visits and noisy settings any longer  .... as you mentioned, too exhausting to do, and I was missing important details needed for my analytics. My work quality really suffered at the end. My employer was skeptical, but I got a lawyer, fought hard for long term disability, and won. My disability payments allow me to continue the standard of living I've had for years. I'm of course very fortunate for the disability income, and it may sound great to some .... but I miss working dearly, and my self-esteem and cognitive abilities have taken a hit. I'm the kind of person that feels much better making some sort of contribution to society, as opposed to filling the time with my own preoccupations and interests. 

 

That being said .... hobbies and interests are SO IMPORTANT for everyone, but especially those going through tough psychological issues. They not only divert our mind from our problems/worries, but also engage our minds in a productive way. Not working doesn't help ..... gives us more time to think about our woes. May I suggest just throwing yourself out there and start exploring a hobby, at least a few hours a week. It may turn out that you not only love doing something, but it may also serve as a way to meet others with like interests. (By the way, Social Media DOES NOT count as a hobby........ )  I create tile mosaic art pieces, and take 1-2 classes a year, mainly to engage with people as passionate as me about mosaics!!!

 

Here's a link that supports the pursuit of hobbies:

 

https://www.psycholo...asons-get-hobby

 

I also volunteer at my local Charity in the food pantry. At first I was apprehensive, especially with the hearing loss ..... but it is immensely rewarding to help this charity, because their clients are all below poverty level and are literally not making ends meet. It gives me great perspective of how lucky I am - and gets me out of my "Oh woe is me" times . Every Thursday, 9am-1pm I go, even if I can hardly get out of bed from the Cymbalta Withdrawal. When i get home, I have to sleep four hours just to recover .... but for me, its worth it.

 

Finally, about that hearing loss ...... there may be solutions out there that you haven't explored. First, may I suggest you see an Audiologist, have a hearing exam, and see if you are a candidate for a hearing aid. I've had hearing loss since I was 17 (I'm 53 now), and wouldn't have been able to get my degrees and work without my two hearing aids (I currently have a severe-to-profound loss, 30% of a normal person's hearing). The hearing aid technology is ever-improving, and hearing aids sound more like natural hearing than ever before. You can choose to wear them only when you need them, and if you're struggling with TV, the telecoil/neckloop capabilities are a true godsend. And, regarding the tinnitus - some of the better hearing aids actually have program modes that provide sound therapy/sound masking programs. They are by no means a "cure all" solution, but about 30%-50% of those who stay the course with their masking programs report at least some relief from their tinnitus. You would work with your local Audiologist on setting up sound therapy program tailored to your own hearing and tinnitus. Finally ..... having music on in the background helps, and you can even play white noise/pink noise sounds via a device on low level. These are just possibilities -- may not work for you, but worth taking a look at if you haven't already.

 

Hope my response is at least somewhat helpful! Best wishes to you for your continued withdrawal recovery,

 

-VinPin

[gail]

Hello Vinpin,

A beautiful post, thank you for sharing. I must have missed something here about our beloved Kathy, I didn't know about her hearing loss.

[KathyInFL]

Thanks Vinpin, that was a great post and a lot of information! 

 

I do need to volunteer somewhere, I just don't want to do much of anything these days. My niece told me the hospital she is a NICU nurse at needs volunteers to help hold the preemies when the parents don't visit, I will look into that. 

 

Gail, I do have hearing loss and awful tinnitus for many years. Vinpin, I have hearing aids but I'm not wearing them much at the moment, I usually only wear them for work, I did wear them to the last movie I went to. The thing with these is the batteries only last about a week so that gets expensive especially when I don't wear them often. They are 5 years old and what I don't like about them is the screech they make if I put my hair behind my ears or even just touch the top of my ear. Do yours do that? I was thinking about getting a newer hearing exam and see if there are newer aids out here. I know there are, but these cost about $5k 5 years ago, that's a lot to pay!

 

I have a contract job that's starting in 2 weeks, I will travel to New Mexico for a week and then work from home for awhile, I'm not sure how long it will last. I'm actually not looking forward to this (I know I need to give it a chance and not go in thinking negatively about it) since I've been off work for almost 3 months now, I've gotten pretty lazy. I think this contract job is what is causing me anxiety. Since I am off the C, I can't sleep late anymore and I loved sleeping late in the mornings when I can. But now I wake up early and my stomach churns with anxiety, my thoughts go to the job, even my breathing seems labored, I have to try to do breathing exercises to slow it down. I took a xanax this morning to get back to sleep and that worked, but I then stayed in bed until about 11:30am!!!

 

Thanks for adding so much to my thread, I just love you all here!

[invalidusername]

Ah - the morning anxiety. How well I know you....

 

Very strange that the wife has her anxiety in the evening right before sleep because she fears the morning, but I fear the morning when it gets here. Of course it is all anticipatory - not knowing the future and is so difficult to shake. The best I can recommend is Claire Weekes' work that I have mentioned on many occasions. I am trying my best to keep on top of it during the withdrawal so that it doesn't take too much of a hold as I recover.

[KathyInFL]

Can anyone critique my vitamins and supplements to see if any of them can be causing me anxiety or an increase in tinnitus? I'm taking these based upon different blogs I've read, I'm not sure why I take some. I don't know if I should keep taking them or change some around. I take 1 a day of each. Thanks in advance!

 

Omega-3 Fish Oil 1250 mg EPA, 488 mg DHA - Bronson

Women's Multivitamin - Vimerson Health

Methyl B-12 5000 mg - Jarrow Formulas

D3 with Vitamin K2 - 5000 IU - Michael's Naturopathic Programs

Magnesium L-Threonate 2000 mg - Double Wood Supplements

Biotin 5000 mcg - Finest Nutrition

Probiotics 40 Billion - Vimerson Health

Vitamin C 1000 mg - Nature Made

 

 

I just ordered L-Theanine 200mg by Nature's Trove but haven't received it yet. Is this the same as the Magnesium L-Threonate listed above?

[invalidusername]

Hat will probably be all over this one, but for now I can say that L-Theanine and L-Threonate are not the same. Theanine is an animo acid, Threonate is a metabolite. Can be used for similar purposes/outcomes, but act on completely different processes and parts of the body.

 

I know the Mag Threonate is supposed to be very good for anxiety, the vit C is OK, but bear in mind that upwards of 2000mg can be considered too much - so careful if your multi vits contain a lot, or you are eating a bunch of oranges at the same time! If you are back and fro to the can too many times in a day, this is a good sign that you are taking too much...

 

Probiotics are never a problem with keeping the gut in check given that this is where all the serotonin starts off. A bad belly can cause problems upstairs - that much we know.

 

Concerning whether you need them and what the consequences of taking an abundance of them - or how each react with each other, I am not too sure. You might also give attention to when you take each of these regarding their respective purposes and the fact that the body can only absorb so much in one sitting.

[fishinghat]

Hi Kathy

Omega-3 Fish Oil 1250 mg EPA, 488 mg DHA - Bronson
(Should not be a problem)

Women's Multivitamin - Vimerson Health
INGREDIENTS
Per serving (2 capsules): Folic Acid 400mcg, Biotin 300mcg, Vitamin A (Beta Carotene) 2000IU, Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) 150mg, Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol) 400IU, Vitamin E (DI-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate 50%) 30IU, Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Mononitrate) 7mg, Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 7.5mg, Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 30mg, Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 7.5mg, Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) 27mcg, Vitamin B5 (D-Calcium Pantothenate) 10mg, Calcium 50mg, Magnesium (Oxide 58%) 50mg, Zinc (Oxide 80%) 15mg, Selenium (AAC 0.2%) 30mcg, Copper (gluconate 13%) 2mg, Manganese (Chelate 20%) 2mg, Chromium (Picolinate 20%) 120mcg, Molybdenum (1% Trit) 75mcg, Female Support (Wild Yam Extract, Red Clover Extract, Lutein, Cranberry Extract, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Lycopene) 192mg, Immune Blend (Goldenseal Root, Echinacea, Spirulina, Garlic) 115mg, Antioxidant Fruit & Energy Blend (Green Tea, Hawthorne Berries, Cinnamon Bark Extract, Bilberry Fruit Extract, Grape Seed Extract, Black Currant Fruit Extract, Pomegranate Fruit Extract) 187mg.

 

 

My Notes
I worry about Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol) 400IU considering you are also takinga Vitamin D supplement. You should have your Vitamin D levels checked at least every 6 months.In the US: 15 µg/d (600 IU per day) for all individuals (males, female, pregnant/lactating women) between the ages of 1 and 70 years old, inclusive. For all individuals older than 70 years, 20 µg/d (800 IU per day) is recommended.

 

 

Vitamin E has an RDA of 15 IU/day. This vitamin is twice that limit on top of what you are getting with your diet. Vitaminosis E may also counteracts vitamin K, leading to a vitamin K deficiency. It has a half life of 2 to 3 days allowing for levels to build in the body.

 

The RDA of Vitamin B1 is set at about 1.0 mg and your product contains 7 mg. The risk is that Vitamin B1 lowers the levels of many other vitamins in the body)

 

 

Your product contains 30 mg of Vitamin B3 (Niacin) but the RDA is 14 to 16 mg/day. Intake should not exceed 35 mg/day. The FDA does not recommend the taking of niacin supplements. This is due to the risk of liver toxicity.

 

 

Your product contains 7.5 mg of Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL) while the RDA is 1 – 3 mg/day. It has a half-Life is 15 to 24 days which allows for toxic levels to build up with time in the body. B6 (pyridoxine) is involved in many aspects of macronutrient metabolism, neurotransmitter synthesis, histamine synthesis, hemoglobin synthesis and function, and gaba expression. It is a factor in the biosynthesis of five important neurotransmitters: serotoniin, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). B6 toxicity is very common in the US and can cause excessive anxiety.

 

 

Your product contains 15 mg of Zinc Zinc toxicity is a common cause of anxiety in the US. Causes include supplements, dandruff shampoos and denture creams. Zinc competes with iron and copper for absorption. The RDAs are 8 and 11 mg/day. This is probably not a concern as long as you are not also getting zinc via dandruff shampoos and denture creams.

 

The plant constituents seems relatively safe but there is little documentation on their interactions.

Methyl B-12 5000 mg - Jarrow Formulas

This is actually 5000 mcg not mg. You are already getting 27 mcg from the multivitamin and now 5000 more from this product while the RDA is only 2.4 mcg/day. The half-life is 6 days so it can buildup in the body to toxic amounts.

Vitamin B12 toxicity can cause...
restenosis (reoccurrence of narrowing of a blood vessel) after stent placement
high blood pressure immediately after injecting vitamin B-12
dizziness
headache
cold symptoms, such as coughing or runny nose (nasopharyngitis)
anxiety
rash
itchy or burning skin
pink or red skin discoloration
joint and muscle pain
swelling of limbs or whole body (edema)
facial flushing
urine discoloration
numbness
nausea
vomiting
diarrhea
increase in blood volume and red blood cells
low potassium levels
gout flare-up


D3 with Vitamin K2 - 5000 IU - Michael's Naturopathic Programs

With this product in combination with your multivitamin your Vitamin D intake is 5400 iud while the RDA is up to 20 IUD. This is way too much unless you have been diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency by a doctor. Vitamin D lowers calcium so it should be taken with a calcium supplement like calcium citrate.

Magnesium L-Threonate 2000 mg - Double Wood Supplements
Used to give rapid absorption of magnesium. Magnesium toxicity is a common source of anxiety. Magnesium also lowers calcium as does Vitamin D. This dosage equates to around a total of 250 mg of magnesium per day.

Biotin 5000 mcg - Finest Nutrition
Should not be an issue

Probiotics 40 Billion - Vimerson Health
Should not be an issue.

Vitamin C 1000 mg - Nature Made
Should not be an issue.

I just ordered L-Theanine 200mg by Nature's Trove but haven't received it yet. Is this the same as the Magnesium L-Threonate listed above?
No, IUN was correct in his assessment.

[fishinghat]

Kathy, a couple things you need to look at...

Competition of Minerals and Vitamins in the Body.

Doses of magnesium can also be relatively large and should, ideally, be taken apart from other minerals. Magnesium competes with calcium for absorption.
If you take high doses of zinc long-term (50 mg or more per day for 10 weeks or longer ), be aware that it can cause copper deficiency, so you may need to supplement with copper as well.
Hypervitaminosis E may also counteract vitamin K, leading to a vitamin K deficiency.
Tyrosine and phenylalanine compete with tryptophan for absorption.
Niacin can cause an excess of uric acid in the blood (hyperuricemia), putting you at risk of gout. (Mayo Clinic)
Long term use of vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia (too high calcium levels).
Iron, copper and zinc are competitive for absorption.
The use of prescription drugs also helps in the deficiency of minerals. Antibiotics, Tylenol, Advil, Motrin, and aspirin all inhibit the absorption of minerals especially zinc, chromium and calcium.
Research has shown the best bioavailable minerals are amino acid chelated minerals.
Fiber which contains phytates, tea which contains tannins and rhubarb and spinach which contains oxalates are known as bad chelates. This is because phytates, tannins and oxalates bind the minerals in the body to themselves in the same way that amino acids do, this results in the minerals not being absorbed by the body but excreted instead.

Methionine effects the concentration of vitamin B6, B12, choline, folic acid and magnesium.
Vitamin C can enhance iron absorption from supplements and plant foods.
The fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) are likely to be better absorbed if taken with a meal that contains fats. In fact, one study found that taking vitamin D with dinner rather than breakfast increased blood levels of vitamin D by about 50%.
Moderate to large doses of fat-soluble vitamins reduce absorption of other fat-soluble vitamins - by about 10 to 50% - due to competition.
Vitamin B1 in high doses can lower other B vitamins and homocysteine.
Absorption of vitamin K appears to be particularly reduced by taking other fat-soluble vitamins.
Vitamin A absorption is least affected and may actually be better absorbed when taken with vitamin E.
Taking vitamins D, E, or K several hours before or after other fat-soluble vitamins would seem to maximize their absorption.
Vitamin C can inhibit copper absorption, and too much copper can lead to vitamin C deficiency.
Zinc inhibits both copper and iron; magnesium. Also copper, iron and calcium all compete for absorption, so too much of one can lead to low blood levels of the others.
Taking antibiotics for a long time can also deplete the body's levels of several B vitamins. On the other hand, taking vitamin B-12 with the antibiotic tetracycline may interfere with the medication's absorption and effectiveness.
Weight loss medication that prevents your body from absorbing fat also prevents your body from absorbing fat-soluble vitamins.
Taking Magnesium with food can reduce the occurrence of diarrhea.
Taking iron with food can reduce the chance of stomach upset.
l-leucine was inhibited by l-valine, l-isoleucine and l-methionine
l-lysine was inhibited by l-arginine, l-phenylalanine and l-histidine.
Little or no competition was observed for the glycine uptake site.
Many other amino acids compete with each other for absorption.
https://www.consumer...-take-vitamins/
https://www.livestro...other-vitamins/
http://www.foodminer...human-body.html
https://www.scienced...300962977903528
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Read...
https://www.cymbalta...ical-screening/

Vitamins and mineral supplements should NEVER be taken without routine blood samples from the drs office.

[invalidusername]

That last post is great - something that everyone needs to know. The amount of people that "abuse" vitamins... I put it down to advertising myself.

 

"Vitamin C can inhibit copper absorption, and too much copper can lead to vitamin C deficiency."

 

Meh. The former negates the latter. How does that work then??

[fishinghat]

Your body does a juggling act. It is all about balance. One of the things that most people don't know is that there are mechanisms in place in the body to regulate vitamin and mineral absorption as well as amino acids. But by taking the supplements we overwhelm the system and can develop many toxicities and deficiencies. A good example is L-tryptophan. It is an amino acid precursor to the formation of serotonin. Our body has a mechanism in place to limit how much we absorb from food. We will only absorb what the body calls for. We can eat tons of chicken breasts every day (a high source of L-tryptophan) and we will only absorb what is called for but when we take the supplement it bypasses this system and will be absorbed fairly easily. One can actually develop serotonin syndrome from taking too much L-tryptophan but I never heard of eating too much chicken causing serotonin syndrome. lol

[invalidusername]

"I never heard of eating too much chicken causing serotonin syndrome"

 

LOL - but has anyone bothered to test this hypothesis??

 

I should do alright despite being a vegetarian as tryptophan is found it a lot of other meat-less dairy products.

 

Wait - I speak too soon. Looks like Eli Lilly/Webmd.com are all over it. Obviously trying to stop the sale of anything non-medicinal related...

 

https://www.webmd.co...ut-tryptophan#1

[fishinghat]

Oh boy, does that article leave a lot out. No, eating turkey is not going to make you sleepy as the body will only absorb what it needs and that will NOT be converted to melatonin unless you eat it late in the day and yes it is probably the carbs (depending on the type) that will make you sleepy. By the way chicken is a much better source of L-tryptophan than turkey.

[invalidusername]

Well as we know - Eli Lilly like leaving out pertinent facts... 

[KathyInFL]

Thanks Hat, I am going to print that out and stop some of these supplements. IUN, do you have a Thanksgiving fest in the UK like we have where we stuff ourselves with turkey?

 

I only take 1 of the women's daily, but I will still take your recommendations. This morning anxiety started fairly recently, about when I started the Methyl-B12.. I had a feeling it could be that!

[fishinghat]

Quite possible. That is a high dose for sure.

[invalidusername]

We don't have thanksgiving like you do, but we have a traditional meal on Christmas Day which consists of Turkey.... roast parsnips, potatoes, cabbage, sprouts etc. Of course I have an alternative to the turkey being a vegetarian...

[Vinpin]

HI KFL,

 

Going back to our hearing aid dialogue here ......  

 

For me ..... there is no choice. I have to wear my hearing aids to hear ..... so its easy for me to say you should wear your aids as much as you can, so you can get used to them and maximize their benefit. But, I realize for many its just not comfortable.

 

Hearing aid batteries are surprisingly cheap at Costco/Sam's, when purchased in bulk. It is very typical for hearing aid batteries to last only one week. I change mine every Thurs AM like clockwork, instead of waiting for them to die soon thereafter.

 

Yes - sometimes I get the "squeal" when a hand or something else waves by the hearing aid(s) - to be expected. If it happens all the time .... see if your audiologist can revisit the "compression" setting on the aids, to reduce this feedback noise. Also .... it could very well be that you have earwax at or near the eardrum - that would cause feedback as well. Its simple enough for an ENT to remove the wax, if your audiologist won't.

 

And yes, it may be time for new hearing aids. Like I mentioned, the new ones are more natural sounding, and have programs for sound therapy that are worth trying out, to see if you can reduce the tinnitus.

 

I love New Mexico - my favorite state to visit.   I adore Santa Fe, with all its Native American and Spanish American charm, and of course the cuisine. Is your visit in Albuquerque/Santa Fe/some place else???

 

-Vinpin

[KathyInFL]

Thanks for the info Vin!

 

I'm going to Albuquerque. I've been to NM before, it is a nice place to visit.

 

I probably have some ear wax. Thing is, I now live about 4 hours from where I got the hearing aids. I wonder if an audiologist here can help me with these aids?  Should I see an audiologist or an ENT?

[invalidusername]

Worth getting the ears checked out - they can be a tricky one. I have a internal curvature in my left ear canal which makes it impossible to clear without the use of suction or irrigation methods. Is a real pain. I've been considering getting the wife trained up to do this for me as at £45 / $60 a time, it gets a little expensive

 

ENT could rule out more things than an audiologist. I'd get the all clear from the ENT and then go to the audiologist to test which frequencies are lacking, and they can find the best solution for you from that. Age dictates you will loose high end frequencies from 4000Hz upwards, but if you had some undiagnosed damage from noise exposure or viral infection, this will need to be taken into account.

[KathyInFL]

Anxiety was through the roof this morning. I haven't started taking the L-Theanine (200mg) yet, any opinions on if I should take it or wait until the other things above are out of my system?

 

Hat, I was reading about the NAC in your other thread. Would that help me?

[fishinghat]

I would go ahead and start the L-theanine. It should not react with any of your existing meds.

The NAC is a good choice as well but I would start with the L-Theanine first. If you try both at once you won ;t know which one worked and which one didn't.

[invalidusername]

Am interested to see the results of the NAC myself after a lot of reading... but we don't want to turn Kathy into a guinea pig for our own benefit

[KathyInFL]

I'll start the L-Theanine tonight. If I wake up at 5am again with this anxiety/churning stomach/awfulness --- I am taking a xanax! I need to sleep, and what is causing me anxiety is the new job starting next Sunday!

 

I'll order the NAC when I get back from my work trip if I need it.

 

Thanks for the answers!

[invalidusername]

I just told you... STOP THINKING!!! 

 

I know - it's impossible. Feel for you dear Kathy. We're all here for you wherever you are.

[KathyInFL]

Have you heard the song "Manic Monday"? Well this morning was "Xanax Tuesday". I hate this anxiety! I am keeping a xanax on my nightstand to take when I get up at 4 or 5 am. I go to this work trip on Sunday, so I don't think I'm going to turn into an Xanax addict the rest of this week.

 

My tinnitus is really really loud. I hope it's all connected and when the anxiety goes away, the tinnitus goes too. I can dream,

[invalidusername]

Ah.. the bangles.. susanna hoffs!! The 80's were great!

 

I have been thinking and praying for you this week Kathy. I can but imagine what is going through your head at the moment. Just don't fight it - let it be. Take Xanax as you need.

 

I am almost certain that the tinnitus will be related. It is very common for it to get worse under stress and anxious conditions. Mine does for sure.

[KathyInFL]

I'm anxious tonight, Friday evening! Why? Because I got a 2nd job offer and I promised the first job that I would start on Monday (this is the flight I'm taking this weekend)... This first place has been stringing me along for 2.5 months now, and as soon as it's finally happening, I get an offer for a different job that I'd prefer. 

 

It's either all good or all bad! Why can't things just happen on an even keel? 

 

Happy weekend all!