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Switching Generic Brand During Taper


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#61 fishinghat

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 11:41 AM

Valsartan

http://www.druginfor...l symptoms.html
45 Reports to FDA on withdrawal symptoms. Please note the 6.7% death rate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.ehealthm...rawal-syndrome/
20,086 people reported to have side effects when taking Valsartan.
Among them, 36 people (0.18%) have Withdrawal syndrome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.medicatio...ovan-withdrawal

Abrupt Diovan Withdrawal

Posted over a year ago
what is your advice for the rate at which i should end my treatment with diovan? is it ok to just abruptly stop? shoud i taper off? im on 160mg once a day. thanks

4 Replies
Dman11111 - what did you end up doing with the diovan \ive been taping off and the feeling is wonderful yes my bp is high again but im going to try alternative nature stuff the side effects were almost killing me now everything is reversing unfornatly the bp is higher again
Posted over a year ago - Reply

Garrettgla - i cannot tell you how dizzy i was on the diovan. i asked the dr. she said taper off over 2 days and immediately go back on the atenolol 25mg. older medication. i did and i gotta tell u i feel so much better. it's cheap too. its keeping my blood pressure low too. so im happy. sorry i waited so long to go off the diovan.
Posted over a year ago - Reply

Debgibsonmt - After a year and ahalf of taking diovan trying to get off is a nightmare. Blood pressure totally erratic even though all blood test show extremely low cholesteral and a CRP of less than 1. So, diovan is extremely addictive and the body seems to loose it's ability to regulate it's own blood pressure. Which, I'm sure, is what the drug company's want.
Posted over a year ago - Reply

Dman11111 - Yes i agree. I am now on the generic of diovan. Because the drug comanies are trying to save money. It is painfully impossible to try and quit diovan. Im sooo glad someone actually agreed with me that it is highly addictive. It would take months for the body to go back to its own regualtion....let me know if you successfully quit ....i found the withdrawl to hard to take. At least right now. Maybee with time i can figure out an alternative. Once again. Highly addictive .......and they will tell you its not! We are living it!!!
Posted over a year ago - Reply
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.peoplesp...-a-new-scandal/
Report on the falsifying of data on Valsartan in order to get FDA approval. Five life threatening side effects were hidden.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.accessda...1283s018lbl.pdf
Abrupt withdrawal of valsartan has not been associated
with a rapid increase in blood pressure.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.medicatio...thdrawal-diovan

Abrupt Withdrawal From Diovan

Posted over a year ago
My Doctor said it was OK to stop taking Diovan which I had been on for nearly two years because I had bad side effects.
I started to get chest pain/angina(?) Should he have told me to taper off the dose?
No answer received.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found NO scientific articles dealing with the subject.


#62 gardenlady

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 04:42 PM

Thanks, FH.  My blood pressure is low (113/60 today) and my doctor told me to cut the valsartan in half and take 40 mg.  He wants me to make an appointment to see him 3 weeks from now.  I doubt I should have taken it in the first place as the HBP was temporary and obviously caused by withdrawal.  


#63 gardenlady

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:35 PM

I finished my valium taper and jumped yesterday...hooray!!!  Now, I need to stabilize so I can resume my Cymbalta taper. 


#64 fishinghat

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Hi GL. Congratulations!! What an accomplishment. 

 

You are doing great.


#65 gardenlady

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 03:35 PM

Hey fishinghat!  Is there a way for me to private message you?  Just wondering if there is a way for me to ask you about something without everyone seeing it.  Thanks!  


#66 gardenlady

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 03:40 PM

In the meantime, I have another question.  I have read online where Teva Pharmaceuticals is going bankrupt/having severe financial problems.  I am taking their brand of generic duloxetine.  If it should no longer be available, do you have suggestions as to what generic I should switch to?  The only generic brand that my insurance company will pay for that makes the drug with microbeads is Teva.  Lupin generic has the 12 mini tabs in the 60 mg capsule which aren't appropriate for tapering.  I'm really concerned about Teva going bankrupt and what I'll do.  Please let me know if you have heard any other news about this company.  Thanks!


#67 fishinghat

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 04:18 PM

Hi Gardenlady.

Teva has had a problem ever since they went into business. Poor quality meds, meds not in spec, plant shutdowns so lack of consistent supplies, etc.

As far as other generics and the bead situation, I am not sure how many beads are in each manufacturers products. Ihat information is 'proprietary' on their drug insert. I will see what I can come up with my doing a search.

As far as a PM. Click on my name and that will take you to my profile. At the top right hand part of the page it says "send me a message". Click that and you are in business.

#68 fishinghat

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 04:51 PM

OK, here is what I found mentioned by members on our site.

Lupin - 7 -12 large beads
Solco - 146 - 157 beads
Prasco - "Large number of beads"
Teva - Approximately 315 beads
Breckenridge - Unknown
Citron - Small beads, approximately 300+
Devo - 150 beads
Apotex - various size beads in each capsule as well as various number of beads.

I hope this helps.

#69 gardenlady

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 10:40 PM

Thanks, fh!  Do you know if all of these generics that you listed are available in the U.S.?


#70 gail

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:10 AM

Good to see you Gardenlady!

#71 fishinghat

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:07 AM

No I don't but I can find out. Be back soon.

#72 fishinghat

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:21 AM

Those that say yes after the brand name are available in the USA.

Lupin - 7 -12 large beads Yes
Solco - 146 - 157 beads Yes
Prasco - "Large number of beads" Yes
Teva - Approximately 315 beads Yes
Breckenridge - Unknown Yes
Citron - Small beads, approximately 300+ Yes
Devo - 150 beads Europe
Apotex - various size beads in each capsule as well as various number of beads. Yes

#73 gardenlady

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:20 PM

fishinghat, I've been off benzos for 5 months now and am micro tapering the Cymbalta.  I am cutting it at a rate of 2.5% every 7 days by weighing the beads.  I'm down to 40 mg from 48 mg about 2 months ago...I cut from 60 mg to 48 mg in May 2017 but had to stop as I was tapering valium.  I'm still able to get the Teva brand generic duloxetine, so am continuing with it rather than changing, hoping Teva will stay in business long enough for me to complete my taper. 

 

My withdrawal symptoms are mostly mental except for tinnitus and insomnia.  The depersonalization/derealization are bad as are the fear, terror, anxiety and black depression.  It's all worsened by insomnia.  I have found if I take the hydroxyzine every night, its stops working after awhile and I'm back to no sleep.  The only other sleep aid that works is generic Unisom with doxylamine. Diphenhydramine doesn't work for me at all.

 

Have you had problems with hydroxyzine losing effectiveness after using it for awhile?  If I stay away from it and then come back to it, then it works.  But only for a short time before pooping out again.  Has this happened to you?

 

I think the withdrawal effects I mentioned are mostly from benzo withdrawal but are exacerbated by the Cymbalta taper, although there is no way for me to know.  Just wondering if you have any suggestions about my situation.  

 

Thanks in advance for your very kind help, as I know you are suffering, too.  


#74 fishinghat

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:19 PM

Building tolerance to hydroxyzine is very rare but can happen. Remember hydroxyzine is an antihistamine so should not be taken with doxylamine. I have never had a problem with hydroxyzine pooping out but I have known one other person on this site that had that issue. The rest did not build tolerance. No wonder drs pull their hair out!! You never kn ow how a person will react.

As far as suggestions for your situation is concerned. I would definitely go on hold with any more tapering until you begin to stabilize. Continuing on is asking for trouble as things will only get worse. Time and patience.

#75 gardenlady

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:40 PM

So, you think that the Cymbalta taper could be making this situation worse, despite my going so slowly?  I guess I was assuming it was primarily benzo withdrawal not realizing that the Cymbalta taper could be adding to it.  It's amazing how naive I can be despite thinking I know so much about these drugs....shows how much I don't know!


#76 fishinghat

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:53 PM

To give you an idea how bad Cymbalta withdrawal can be we have had members that dropped one bead every 3 to 4 days in order to wean with tolerable withdrawal symptoms but a six month wean is common for sure and they still have symptoms, especially during the last 3 or 4 grams. Nasty stuff.


#77 gardenlady

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:57 PM

I'm down to 39 mg from 60 mg and am cutting by 2.5% a week weighing beads on a gram scale.  Is it normal to have such a hard time tapering Cymbalta when at this high of a dose?  I know it can be really hard at lower doses, but most people on here seem to be able to cut from 60 mg to 30 mg even in one drop.  No way I could do that.  I'm sensitive to even the small drops I'm making now, and it concerns me because I'm still at a pretty high dose.

 

I've been reading about Juli's cross taper to Lexapro and am wondering if that's something I should consider.  It's hard to fathom how I'm going taper down on this drug if I'm having such a hard time now.  I'm getting scared thinking of the long road ahead and how in the world I'll make it.


#78 fishinghat

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 05:17 PM

It is unusual gardenlady but it does happen. Some people are just more sensitive then others. I know some have taken almost a year to wean to deal with the withdrawal symptoms and others have switched to an ssri, stabilized and then tapered off of that. It is really a personal choice. No right or wrong answer.
 
Some times when I start getting scared of the road ahead I just stay at my current dose until I feel better and my confidence improves. These AD withdrawals markedly effect two areas of the brain. The amygdala and the hippocampus. These areas control fear and panic and OCD. Once they become impacted the worries, doubts, uncertainties and fears greatly increase. If you stabilize for a while the mind begins to return to normal.

#79 gardenlady

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 10:20 PM

I held at 39 mg for 3 weeks and thought I was feeling well enough to make a 2.5% cut to 38 mg so I did that yesterday.  Today is day 2 of that cut and I am really feeling it.  I'm still in benzo withdrawal so I'm sure that's part of it, but I'm discouraged at how I'll ever get off of this stuff if I'm having such a hard time at this high a dose.  Have you seen this happen before?  Do you think it will get better the longer I am from my benzo jump?  I'm just shy of 6 months off of the benzo, so really am in early stages since it seems to take 1 - 2 years for people to go through benzo withdrawal. 

 

The worst is the dread, doom, fear and terror....mostly existential.  God seems so distant and I feel cut off from Him.....it's really scary.  I don't know how to pray and am terrified.    


#80 gail

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 04:45 AM

Hi Gardenlady,

First part is for Fishinghat.

Second part of second part,I understand real good what it is. Look up, and just say, I want to pray but I can't. God hears you. Do not worry, just the wanting is enough for Him. But at the same time, it's painful not to be able to sense his presence. As we speak, I'll take the time to pray for you.

#81 fishinghat

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:52 AM

"I'm just shy of 6 months off of the benzo, so really am in early stages since it seems to take 1 - 2 years for people to go through benzo withdrawal."

True and it may be contributing some even if you don't have benzo withdrawal symptoms any more.

Some people have a hard time even at the high doses. I remember one member that had to do a 1 bead drop,out of 300+ beads, every day from the beginning. It took her a while but she got through it. You can too. This is not a race but a game of patience. Stay at 38 mg until stable and then go much slower. Time and patience.

You might also find this interesting.
https://www.thoughtc...ith-fear-701283

#82 gardenlady

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 06:01 PM

Gail & FH, Thank you for your compassion, understanding and prayers.  FH, I really like the article you referenced...I've printed it out and keep it handy as I have to read it several times a day.

 

I made my 2.5% cut yesterday from 38 mg to 37 mg and am experiencing anxiety manifested by heavy breathing, agoraphobia, depression, insomnia, tinnitus, fear, terror....all of which I was having anyway from benzo withdrawal (I've been off benzos for 6 months).  I have a long way to go tapering the Cymbalta, but am thankful I have you with me as no one else believes me when I tell them about what these drugs do.  

 

Do you think that as I get more healing time under my belt from the benzos that I might be able to taper the Cymbalta faster?  Just wondering if you've ever seen this happen before. 


#83 gail

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:59 AM

Hello Gardenlady,

Thank you for your nice words. Stuck at 37mg. Since I'm here, I don't recall anyone that was stuck there. You are in my prayers.

If I remember correctly, you are on hormone therapy? Only oestrogen? What form? All this out of curiosity. As I remember, the progesterone made me so depressed. Not in the beginning, it was a blessing, at the end, I stopped it. I have my uterus, but I continue the oestrogen patch just the same. I cut it so it's about 10 instead of 50. I take it for night sweats. My mom had them till she died at 80.

Fishinghat, what about cross tapering? I'm in a bind here. Thank God that you are there. Love.

#84 fishinghat

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:37 AM

Hi GardenLady

I don't think you will be able to wean faster the further you get from the benzos. Matter of fact given the effects you get now from a 1 mg drop I would go to 1/2 mg drops or even less. Maybe a 0.5% drop instead of 2.5%. I hate to see you torture yourself any more than necessary.

I thank you for the kind words. I just wish I could take this burden away from everyone.

#85 juli

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 12:00 PM

Hi GardenLady,

I am sorry that you are going through this.  The cross-taper did get me off of the Cymbalta and on to Lexapro but now I am on another journey with stabilizing and tapering off of that.  I believe that there is no easy answer but just a matter of choice.  I was having a tremendous amount of PTSD from my bad taper off of Cymbalta so I felt like I just needed to be off of it.  The Lexapro taper will not be a cake walk and I plan on it taking a year.

Praying for you,

Juli


#86 gardenlady

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 04:49 PM

Thanks Gail, fishinghat and Juli for your responses.  Since I'm still in benzo withdrawal, I am afraid to cross taper and confuse my brain even more than it is. I guess I should just keep up the snail's pace Cymbalta taper until my CNS is more stable, but I'm not sure that's even possible if I'm also tapering Cymbalta.  It's hard to know what to do when my brains is so messed up....the derealization/depersonalization is bad and never seems to ease up.  I just wonder how long I'll have to live like this....I'm just existing and not really living.  It's very hard to relate to others and to have even a semblance of a normal life.  Sorry to be so negative, but that's just how it is.  

 

Thank you all for the wonderful support...I am very grateful. 


#87 fishinghat

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

You don't need to apologize. That is a stage we all have to go through. Slow is good. Just hang in there Gardenlady.

#88 gail

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 06:39 AM

Gardenlady,

If it's of any consolation, know that your name is on my wall of daily prayers.

I can't remember if you have fibromyalgia, my mind can hold so much! Have you seen any improvement since the beginning of the taper? Questions and questions, no need to answer if you're not up to it.

You are right, slower pace.

#89 gardenlady

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 02:42 PM

Gardenlady,

If it's of any consolation, know that your name is on my wall of daily prayers.

I can't remember if you have fibromyalgia, my mind can hold so much! Have you seen any improvement since the beginning of the taper? Questions and questions, no need to answer if you're not up to it.

You are right, slower pace.

Gail, You are a dear to pray for me....it means more to me than you can know!  

No, I don't have fibromyalgia....I took Cymbalta for depression.  I've been on ADs for years and they have never helped.  Doctors have crossed me over to nearly all of them, Cymbalta being the last.  I plan to get off of it and never take another AD

 

You asked me earlier about hormones.  Yes, I'm on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) and am taking .5 mg of estradiol and 2.5 mg of Provera (medroxyprogesterone) a day.  The plan was to discontinue the HRT once I was off the benzo and AD, but I'm stuck on Cymbalta and what looks to be a long taper before I can get off the HRT.  


#90 fishinghat

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 03:25 PM

Hey GardenLady. Be sure and wait at least 3 months after coming off the Cymbalta before trying to reduce the HRT. Studies have shown that it takes that long for the hormone levels to stabilize after quitting Cymbalta.



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