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Switching Generic Brand During Taper


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#151 fishinghat

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 07:22 AM

Juli's description of stable is a good one. Your body will let you know when it is ready.

 

I believe we have already talked about a 4 or 5 week tapering/crossover schedule before but if not let me know.


#152 gardenlady

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 02:42 PM

fishinghat,  Teva Pharmaceuticals is out of stock of duloxetine.  What other generic brands in the U.S. make the drug with microbeads? I may have to switch generics yet again due to non-availability.  


#153 fishinghat

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 04:46 PM


Solco - 146 - 157 beads Yes

Prasco - "Large number of beads" Yes

Teva - Approximately 315 beads Yes

Citron - Small beads, approximately 300+ Yes

Cymbalta - 250 to 350 beads Yes

* Yes indicates that this brand is available in the USA.

#154 gardenlady

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 07:34 PM

Does anyone have a 20 mg TEVA generic brand capsule s/he can weigh for me, beads only? Or, a 30 mg Citron generic capsule, beads only?

 

I am having to switch to Citron brand from TEVA brand generic because TEVA is backordered and may no longer be available. However, the weights aren't making sense. A 30 mg TEVA (beads only) weighs .264 on my gram scale. The Citron 20 mg (beads only) weighs only .124 g. I don't have a Citron 30 mg or a TEVA 20 mg to weigh, so am having to compare, proportionally. However, these proportions don't make sense.

 

20 mg is 2/3s of 30 mg. So, if a TEVA 30 mg weighs .264 g then logically, a 20 mg should weigh .174 g. However, the Citron 20 mg weighs only .124 g. Something is wrong. 

 

The bead sizes are different...the TEVA beads are larger than the Citron beads. But, the weights should be the same, or shouldn't they?  Perhaps that assumption is incorrect.

 

Can anyone help me figure this out? I need to determine how to switch from TEVA to Citron, but can't if the weights aren't proportional.


#155 fishinghat

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:06 AM

"But, the weights should be the same, or shouldn't they? Perhaps that assumption is incorrect."

You are not the first one to notice this type of anomaly. Many have noticed that with their version of Cymbalta that the beads in a lower dose weight considerably less than expected based on in the larger dose.

I spoke to Eli Lilley once about bead counts and bead sizes. They said this is to be expected. Once a bead is made with the right amount of medicine they are then coated. The thickness of the coat is the same on a small bead (smaller dose) as a larger bead (larger dose. Because of the smaller surface area on a smaller bead there is less coating and the bead will weight proportionally less than a bead from a larger dose. I understood what she said BUT why produce a smaller bead for a smaller dose. Just use the same size bead in all doses and simply alter the number of beads in each different dose.

Anyway, I probably confused you even more. Sorry.

#156 fishinghat

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:08 AM

You definitely need to read this. I think it may explain all.

https://www.cymbalta...g-beadspellets/

Also a note from a member said...

ncmom - Prasco Labs is the manufacturer and that is the same manufacturer for the previous 30 mg. and 60 mg. prescriptions that we filled and we filled it at the same pharmacy. However, I thought that I had figured there were about 6 beads per milligram in the previous capsules. For example, the 30 mg. capsule had about 185 beads as I recall. That's roughly 6 beads per milligram. But, when I opened the new 20 mg tablet it only had about 108 beads, not 120.

#157 gardenlady

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 01:07 PM

Yes, thank you fishinghat.  This writer is explaining what I already knew.....that bead counts differ widely both within and between manufacturers.  So, she suggests weighing them vs counting.  But, that's the problem, the weights differ between generics.  She doesn't address that issue.

 

How do I switch generic brands when the weights don't match up?  How do I know how much of the Citron brand to take when its weight is different from Teva brand?


#158 fishinghat

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 02:26 PM

Start from scratch.

You have been taking 30 mg TEVA (beads only) which weight .264 g on your scale, right?
How much weight have you been dropping?

#159 gardenlady

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:16 PM

Yes.  Current Teva dose is ~22.2 mg/113 beads/.192 gram weight. Teva has roughly 5.1 beads/mg.

Citron capsules are 20 mg/avg 116 beads/avg .122 gram weight. Citron has roughly 5.8 beads/mg.

 

I have been dropping 2.5% gram weight per week.  So, last drop was .197 gram weight down to .192 gram weight on Teva brand. 


#160 invalidusername

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:54 PM

Its all very well saying the enteric coating is uniform, but that cannot be the case for the generic I have seen. Some beads being half the size of others. There is also bits of coating that has chipped off and included in the capsule, so if they were weighed, this can obviously be a key issue.

 

There are a number of "dodgy" pharma companies over here in the UK however. From those that might as well be set up in a parent's basement, to those that simply outsource to India and import without any suitable checks. During my Dulox days, I am quite sure I never had the same pharma twice.


#161 gardenlady

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 04:41 PM

Its all very well saying the enteric coating is uniform, but that cannot be the case for the generic I have seen. Some beads being half the size of others. There is also bits of coating that has chipped off and included in the capsule, so if they were weighed, this can obviously be a key issue.

 

There are a number of "dodgy" pharma companies over here in the UK however. From those that might as well be set up in a parent's basement, to those that simply outsource to India and import without any suitable checks. During my Dulox days, I am quite sure I never had the same pharma twice.

Yes, that's unfortunately the case.  But I have to figure out a way to work with what I have. 


#162 fishinghat

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 05:51 PM

Yes.  Current Teva dose is ~22.2 mg/113 beads/.192 gram weight. Teva has roughly 5.1 beads/mg.[/size]
Citron capsules are 20 mg/avg 116 beads/avg .122 gram weight. Citron has roughly 5.8 beads/mg.[/size]
 
I have been dropping 2.5% gram weight per week.  So, last drop was .197 gram weight down to .192 gram weight on Teva brand. [/size]


If you go straight to Citron  20 mg (full capsule) that would be to big a drop at once. The last drop on the Teva was a 0.005 gram drop or about 0.56 mg dose of medicine. If you go straight to the 20 mg Citron that would be a 2.2 mg drop and that would be too much. So you are going to wind up taking a 20 mg Citron (20 mg of Cymbalta) plus a little mote. A 22.2 mg dose of Citron would be a full capsule and 2.2 mg more. 2.2 mg would be 12.7 beads of Citron.

 

So...I would do a 20 mg Citron plus 13 beads to start with and then continue to drop from there.


#163 gardenlady

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:58 PM

If you go straight to Citron  20 mg (full capsule) that would be to big a drop at once. The last drop on the Teva was a 0.005 gram drop or about 0.56 mg dose of medicine. If you go straight to the 20 mg Citron that would be a 2.2 mg drop and that would be too much. So you are going to wind up taking a 20 mg Citron (20 mg of Cymbalta) plus a little mote. A 22.2 mg dose of Citron would be a full capsule and 2.2 mg more. 2.2 mg would be 12.7 beads of Citron.

 

So...I would do a 20 mg Citron plus 13 beads to start with and then continue to drop from there.

Thanks, fishinghat!  That's just what I needed to know.  Fortunately, I have hundreds of loose beads of both Citron and Teva brand beads.  I've kept them in separate plastic snack bags.  So, I have plenty of each to bridge me.  Thanks again for being such an angel, as I realize you're suffering like rest of us.  You are a dear man!!!


#164 fishinghat

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 09:23 AM

Thank you for the kind words Gardenlady. Always glad to help.



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