171 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Juli's description of stable is a good one. Your body will let you know when it is ready.

 

I believe we have already talked about a 4 or 5 week tapering/crossover schedule before but if not let me know.

[fishinghat]

Solco - 146 - 157 beads Yes

Prasco - "Large number of beads" Yes

Teva - Approximately 315 beads Yes

Citron - Small beads, approximately 300+ Yes

Cymbalta - 250 to 350 beads Yes

* Yes indicates that this brand is available in the USA.

[fishinghat]

"But, the weights should be the same, or shouldn't they? Perhaps that assumption is incorrect."

You are not the first one to notice this type of anomaly. Many have noticed that with their version of Cymbalta that the beads in a lower dose weight considerably less than expected based on in the larger dose.

I spoke to Eli Lilley once about bead counts and bead sizes. They said this is to be expected. Once a bead is made with the right amount of medicine they are then coated. The thickness of the coat is the same on a small bead (smaller dose) as a larger bead (larger dose. Because of the smaller surface area on a smaller bead there is less coating and the bead will weight proportionally less than a bead from a larger dose. I understood what she said BUT why produce a smaller bead for a smaller dose. Just use the same size bead in all doses and simply alter the number of beads in each different dose.

Anyway, I probably confused you even more. Sorry.

[fishinghat]

You definitely need to read this. I think it may explain all.

https://www.cymbalta...g-beadspellets/

Also a note from a member said...

ncmom - Prasco Labs is the manufacturer and that is the same manufacturer for the previous 30 mg. and 60 mg. prescriptions that we filled and we filled it at the same pharmacy. However, I thought that I had figured there were about 6 beads per milligram in the previous capsules. For example, the 30 mg. capsule had about 185 beads as I recall. That's roughly 6 beads per milligram. But, when I opened the new 20 mg tablet it only had about 108 beads, not 120.

[fishinghat]

Start from scratch.

You have been taking 30 mg TEVA (beads only) which weight .264 g on your scale, right?
How much weight have you been dropping?

[invalidusername]

Its all very well saying the enteric coating is uniform, but that cannot be the case for the generic I have seen. Some beads being half the size of others. There is also bits of coating that has chipped off and included in the capsule, so if they were weighed, this can obviously be a key issue.

 

There are a number of "dodgy" pharma companies over here in the UK however. From those that might as well be set up in a parent's basement, to those that simply outsource to India and import without any suitable checks. During my Dulox days, I am quite sure I never had the same pharma twice.

[fishinghat]

Yes.  Current Teva dose is ~22.2 mg/113 beads/.192 gram weight. Teva has roughly 5.1 beads/mg.[/size]
Citron capsules are 20 mg/avg 116 beads/avg .122 gram weight. Citron has roughly 5.8 beads/mg.[/size]
 
I have been dropping 2.5% gram weight per week.  So, last drop was .197 gram weight down to .192 gram weight on Teva brand. [/size]

If you go straight to Citron  20 mg (full capsule) that would be to big a drop at once. The last drop on the Teva was a 0.005 gram drop or about 0.56 mg dose of medicine. If you go straight to the 20 mg Citron that would be a 2.2 mg drop and that would be too much. So you are going to wind up taking a 20 mg Citron (20 mg of Cymbalta) plus a little mote. A 22.2 mg dose of Citron would be a full capsule and 2.2 mg more. 2.2 mg would be 12.7 beads of Citron.

 

So...I would do a 20 mg Citron plus 13 beads to start with and then continue to drop from there.

[fishinghat]

Thank you for the kind words Gardenlady. Always glad to help.

[invalidusername]

Wow this is harsh GardenLady - my sympathies are with you. In my darker times I can certainly empathise as I too find social chat invasive and all I want to do is locked myself away from the world. Crowds for me are right out as well. Were even before this latest episode. You need to find some confidence in something to bring you out of the hole a little. My wife is slowly coming out of her place which is a diluted version of your own since she stopped Lexapro. She is going forward with a combination of talking therapy, occasional benzos and daily doses of Kratom. This is the best she can hope for at the moment and she is seeing some glimmers of hope. 

 

I know there is some doubt over Kratom, but it is legal and used for medicinal purposes in your state. Given the place where you are, I would like to suggest a trial of it, but that is all I will say as I understand everyone's opinion. Have a read of the latest from the AKA here;

 

https://www.american...rg/science.html

 

If you would like any further help regarding this at all, please ask me as I went through a LOT of information before I tried it. My wife and I have been taking it since December and we both agree we would be nowhere like where we are if it wasn't for the support of it...

 

Wishing you all the very best - and no doubt Hat will be along later with his sage advice.

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

High gardenlady. I have been wondering how you have been doing.

"is it usual for the doom/dread symptoms to remain all the down to the end of the taper?"

Mine lasted 9 months past the last dosage but that is very rare. Normally 2 to 4 months past the last dose with a slow fade during that time. If it takes 2 years so be it. There is no need to rush.

God bless

[invalidusername]

I fully respect your opinion GardenLady, and being only too aware about the dangers of addiction, which is why I only use Kratom medicinally and not recreationally. I should also state for the record for anyone reading this that if one is of a addictive disposition it is far better to avoid purely for the reason you said...

 

Again, I am so sorry to hear of your ongoing saga with the described troubles. I really hope there is some hope for you on the horizon. Time is a good healer, and the plasticity of our gray matter will ensure that things do improve. Meanwhile, it is the kindness of people such as our Hat and our strength through faith that we are able to continue.

 

Please keep in touch.

[invalidusername]

"Unfortunately, our bodies don't know or care whether our intention in using a drug is for medicinal or recreational purposes....they will react as they will and we must deal with the fallout."

 

Some truly wise words if they were ever spoken...

 

Thank you for your message - and once again you are absolutely right. With regards to the Kratom, I take it maybe 3 times a week, but I can take it or leave it. From what I know of the use, this level of dosing it very unlikely to cause a dependence. However, it is, as you say, just like any other medication that can become dependent. In my eyes however, it is far better than turning to benzos or similar. This is how I found it in the first place; I wanted an alternative to the benzo. By comparison, Kratom is like a walk in the park to stop than a benzo, and given that I have been through my fair share of withdrawals and cross-tapers, it does not worry me. I will continue taking it for as long as I feel I need. If that is another week, another year... it matters not. If it helps me recover, then it is a good thing - provided I keep the dependence/addiction in the forefront of my mind.

 

I echo your words about all those suffering, and once again, my every sympathy - I will remember you in my prayers.