55 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

"its likely just my body/mind adapting?"

Yes, it is your body, specifically your nerve endings, that are adapting to being without the Cymbalta. Your nerves have forgotten how to control the neurotransmitters during that 5 years and now they have to adapt to being without the Cymbalta.

[bruinsfan617]

well that would make even more sense, given my vagus nerve seems to go wild under anxiety.

FH, I cannot thank you enough for sharing your wisdom & knowledge.

[fishinghat]

Not a problem. By the way many people do not realize that the vagus nerve not only goes to the heart but also to the stomach. That is why many gastric ailments may cause heart pounding, elevated pulse and /or blood pressure.

[bruinsfan617]

wow, that would make sense, then -  as I have had GI issues long before I had the jitters from anxiety.  

[bruinsfan617]

Updates:

-so after taking the 175 mg of zoloft, i definitely felt that "boost" that zoloft tends to have when first taking an increased dose.  

 

Did it help?  yes.  Did it eliminate my anxiety, negative thought patterns, or other physical symptoms?  No.  It masked them, but did not eliminate them.

But you know what I realized?  Stress is one of the problems.  Stress, be it external, or internal/self caused stress has been the issue.  Not like I didn't know this, but its interesting to feel it on varying levels & with scientific confirmation via experimentation.

So i resorted to what helped 5 years ago - weightlifting exercise.  I was always a skinny kid, so running did not help with my confidence.  Weights helped tremendously, including gaining weight - which i gained a healthy 60 pounds in 6-8 months back in 2012 during the middle/end of college.

It's really amazing how much of a difference exercise makes on our minds and bodies.  The fact that I stopped consistently going to exercise 2.5 years ago was a tragic mistake, as law school & work have been the most stressful times of my life.  Somehow I made it the most stable part of that journey to have anxiety come back- how ironic!

Anyway, a point I hope others can learn from this post is this - your head is connected to your body.  Exercise really does make the difference.  You almost have to exercise like your life depended on it - but the rewards are well worth it.

[fishinghat]

"Did it help? yes. Did it eliminate my anxiety, negative thought patterns, or other physical symptoms? No. It masked them, but did not eliminate them."

Masked is definitely the right word. It is buying you time for the Cymbalta withdrawal to wear off. Then you can start dropping the Zoloft. It is said to be much easier than Cymbalta.

You know it is interesting. I have read every post on this site and most would say that moderate exercise helped but hard exercise was detrimental but about 10% who commented on exercise agreed with your statement. I think the difference was probably perspective. If they thought hard exercise was demanding and pushing themselves it may have been perceived as stress. Definitely food for thought.

[bruinsfan617]

Hope all has been well.

Been busy at work, church, life - for the most part, pretty good.

However I think perahps (1) a stomach bug is being passed back & forth in my house, or (2) the nerves in my stomach & intestines are super sensitive to changes, or something else I can't think of.

Anyway, despite a great 6-7 days of work and life, I had 24 hours of stressors that got my anxiety running. One was there immense urge to throw up on Thursday, t I which I went to bed early in hopes to sleep off. The other was just work stress.

I would've thought Zoloft would make these reactions much fewer and much less severe.....but is it possible I'm still adjusting from no Cymbalta after almost 6 years to Zoloft?

Also, I'm staying on 150 mg rather than go up to 175 I was prescribed. Not sure if that's the best decision, but for now I'm sticking with it.

And I was prescribed trazidone for sleep - as needed basis. I will say, it does work to help with sleep. But can it help with anxiety? Like helping prevent waking up anxious from the previous day's events?

[fishinghat]

I am sure at this point your nerves are super sensitive. Both Cymbalta and Zoloft help control the neuroreceptor serotonin. Serotonin is found mist commonly in the digestive tract. It may take awhille for that to settle down. I know some members kept a supply of ginger handy (gum, ginger ale, ginger root, etc) to help when their stomach got upset. I am a little concerned as you have been on the Zoloft long enough now to have settled the stomach pretty well. It is possible this is a side effect from the Zoloft. Only time will tell. Some pepto, kao, or a little Imodium can help if you are not constipated. Sorry you are having some issues. I hope it clears up for you soon.

[bruinsfan617]

FH thank you for your insight as always.

Honestly, I don't think it's the Zoloft - I know everytime I took the Zoloft, it would become diahreeia by day's end. Within one week, 4-5 days to be exact, this would subside.

Given both my fiance's work environment (children), and my office environment (people with children) - I'm not surprised if it's just a gastrointestinal virus that has been passed back & forth for the last month. It's Texas in the winter, so the cold has yet to go away.

Anyway, I do genuinely appreciate the insight. I'm sure I had similar problems with Cymbalta in the first 6 months, and just remember it.

[fishinghat]

You may be like me BF. I think I am allergic to children.  lol

[kimmybc]

Not a problem. By the way many people do not realize that the vagus nerve not only goes to the heart but also to the stomach. That is why many gastric ailments may cause heart pounding, elevated pulse and /or blood pressure.

Wow this is great information. Def. open my eyes.

 

Here is a link for anyone who wants to learn more, I had to google what the vagus nerve does. If cymbalta or any other AD has "influenced" our nerves, especially the vagus nerve, it makes sense why the rest of our body feels funky without the AD.

 

Turns out deep breathing can "activate the vagus nerve." I wish more doctors would explain depression/anxiety in medical terms like this instead of pushing meds by saying "hey this is what you should take." Sure...meds can work wonders but it would be nice if the docs would explain clearly.

 

https://www.webmd.co...rve-stimulation

[kimmybc]

How are you with the Zoloft now?

[fishinghat]

"Here is a link for anyone who wants to learn more, I had to google what the vagus nerve does. If cymbalta or any other AD has "influenced" our nerves, especially the vagus nerve, it makes sense why the rest of our body feels funky without the AD."

"Turns out deep breathing can "activate the vagus nerve." I wish more doctors would explain depression/anxiety in medical terms like this instead of pushing meds by saying "hey this is what you should take." Sure...meds can work wonders but it would be nice if the docs would explain clearly."

You are right on. Under normal situations serotonin and norepinephrine function normally by stimulating your nerves at the right time and in the right way. Under stress the body produces excess of some neurotransmitters and less of others. If that stress exists for a long term then the imbalance persists and either anxiety or depression or both may develop. It is most important that we realize that these neurotransmitters are used for dozens of purposes in nearly all parts of our body. As an example, serotonin is a mood stabilizer in the brain but is also the most common neurotransmitter in our digestive tract. Our bodies are so complex.

If anyone wants more details they can do a search on this website for "Chronic adrenergic state" and you will find a document out lining the process involved in causing anxiety. And if you have trouble finding it let me know and I will dig it up.

[bruinsfan617]

Hello Folks,

 

I honestly think the zoloft at 150 mg is working - but between insane job stress and having gastro issues post stomach bug - I'm just not comfortable.
 

 

 

FH - aside from initial onset of GI symptoms when starting Zoloft - does Zoloft have a history of GI issues post first few weeks?  Doubt it, but just curious.

I used to have really bad IBS pre-Cymbalta.  Once I was on Cymbalta, I started to feel better!

After this recent stomach bug, I feel like my IBS is back - which makes sense, given over-active nerves and stress.

 

I just increased to 175 mg today to try and combat the stress of work/gastro issues.  Hopefully that helps.

 

Kimmy - I truly have no issues with the Zoloft.  I just think switching from Cymbalta to Zoloft is a major change, as they are not the same drug.  I thin Cymbalta affected my nervous system more as an SNRI (which makes sense, given cymbalta is prescribed for neuropathy).


 

[fishinghat]

Hi BF

A small percentage of people do suffer continuing gastric issues with Zoloft. Matter of fact that is the number one issue for coming off Zoloft. I know that my Cymbalta withdrawal and starting on Zoloft brought back my IBS which just wouldn't settle back down. My dr put me on Zantac, 175 mg, twice per day for 4 weeks and that did the trick PLUS Zantac is antianxiety as well. You might try it.

Cymbalta is stronger as it regulates both serotonin and norepinephrine while Zoloft only regulates serotonin so you would expect more effects/side effects with the Cymbalta.

[bruinsfan617]

Zantac eh?  I'm taking Nexium now from past esophageal pain (long story- food lodged in throat needed to be removed by scope)>

If the nexium doesn't work, I will try Zantac 175!

[bruinsfan617]

Hello everyone,

 

Its been awhile, so I figured I'd give an update.  I Still have GI issues from the zoloft - but thankfully my head appears to be in the right place finally!

 

Still, the GI issues have caused be to lose weight, and has disrupted what I can & cannot eat, as well as what physical activity I can do.  Having suffered from IBS for years prior to 2012 - 2017, I can say it is not worth living with if at all possible.  The pains in my GI tract after moderate exercise feels like my gut is on fire, and the pain causes nausea (in addition to just being nauseous in the morning by default).

I told my P-Doc, and they suggested trying Celexa, and supplement with remeron for the evening/night time (i currently take trazidone for sleep).
.  
I did my own research on this,m and it appears like a legitimate treatment for my issues - Celexa is known for weight gain (good for me), reducing gut motility, and breaks down into the bloodstream much quicker than others.  However, since I found Cymbalta to have worked for me for over 5 years - I'd like to find something with a smiliar profile (another SNRI).  

 

I've read good things about Effexor - any insights on this or Celexa?

 

Thanks,

[fishinghat]

Effexor, been there done that. In general it is a twin sister to Cymbalta but by reputation it has additional possible side effects. The drs here call it "sideffexor" lol Nasty withdrawal as well. If it was me I would try the Celexa. Just my opinion.

[bruinsfan617]

What kind of side effects?  Seems to me that going with what is most likely to work would be worth doing over the less likely option, given the side effects are possible for both.

[fishinghat]

Like Cymbalta, Effexor side effects include seizures, liver disease, sexual dysfunction, PSSD, high blood pressure, low bone density, embryotoxicity, chromosomal damage, decreases memory formation, decreases nerve cell groth, hyperglycemia, mania, Steven-Johnson Syndrome, hyponatremia (low sodium) and hypogonadism. Also suicide and suicidal thoughts in adolescents. This information comes from Eli Lilley the manufacturer and medical research articles.

[bruinsfan617]

FH - you said earlier in the thread to ask if/when you come off of Zoloft how you got off it...

 

Well, how did you get off of it?  Lol.  Keeping in mind the issues with Zoloft for me are almost exclusively GI issues, lack of appetite, along with returning of IBS issues.

 

I'll discuss next week what drug to use next.  Maybe Celexa is the right move, maybe it isn't - but I do believe that Cymbalta's makeup clearly worked for my IBS, which leads to believe an anti-depressant with a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor would do the trick.  Then again, I do not understand the pharmacokinetics of these drugs, so who the hell knows what would really work or not. 

 

[fishinghat]

Hi BF

I am still tapering off of the Lorazepam so I have not started the Zoloft taper as of yet.

The majority of your stomach issues are regulated by serotonin. Cymbalta,as you probably know, regulates serotonin activity BUT it also is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. You probably need to focus on a ssri.


"I do not understand the pharmacokinetics of these drugs, so who the hell knows what would really work or not."

Don't feel bad neither do the drs nor the research physicians. lol

[kimmybc]

Hi, I plan to wean off Cymbalta to Zoloft but I am taking 60 mg.

 

I am afraid that I might end up like you - but worse, having need benzo to help with the withdrawing? Any tips?

[fishinghat]

My situation is a little different than most. Benzos have little effect on  me but during withdrawal I was desperate so we tried anyway and now I am having to taper. Urgg. The most beneficial meds that I have used has been clonidine and hydroxyzine. neither has a withdrawal and are not addictive. One note on the cross taper to Zoloft. There will be some stomach issues each time you increase the dose of the Zoloft that will last a few days before fading. Of course there will still be some withdrawal from the Cymbalta until the Zoloft kicks in.

[Bearfan]

Just wanted to jump in and say I cross tapered from 60mg cymbalta to now 75mg zoloft, soon to be 100mg. I've been through cold turkey cymbalta withdrawal before, though only from 30mg, and zoloft has probably softened the blow a bit this time. But, I am experiencing the same physical symptoms as you. GI upset that gets worse with anxiety or mental activity, pounding heart and heart palpitations, and lump feeling in throat (I guess that's the vagus nerve). Also a lot of muscle twitches and vivid dreams and hard time waking. Emotionally I seem to be improving. Though, it seems like zoloft has a short half life. I feel better cognitively after I take it. Then the next day I get a return of brain fatigue/overstimulation until I take it again. Thankfully I've taken my zoloft already tonight or else simply typing this may be extremely mentally fatiguing for me. It probably takes time to build up in the system so I don't notice the half life. 

 

It's amazing what these drugs do to your body, not just your mind. I guess that's the nerve ending/neurotransmitter part for you. I felt similar to this in terms of the mental fatigue after I had a bad concussion, which a doctor told me messes up my neurotransmitters temporarily.

 

I also have severe heat intolerance to go along with that brain fatigue I usually get, although the withdrawal has made it worse, and I may be a bit of a different case as I think I might have an underlying condition that contributes. I'm seeing a neurologist this month, and my symptoms may very well be benign as the last 7 months has been filled with massive stress. Though I want to rule out things such as Cushings Syndrome, Multiple Sclerosis, Postural Hypotension/Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, as I have symptoms of each that have been present since 2015 to varying degrees, though none of them are fatal and simply affect quality of life poorly, just like anxiety/depression. Still, it may very well be stress though as 2015 and 2018 have been hell basically. 

 

Cheers to all cross tapering from cymbalta to zoloft. I recently joined and will try to hop in and provide possible insight/personal experience whenever my fatigue levels allow it.

[fishinghat]

Thanks for the update Bearfan. I know it is tough but it will get there.