20 replies to this topic

[hatecymbalta1]

Hello everyone, 

 

I want to start bead counting so I had to switch brands from duloxetine el lilly with the large beads to Solco small beads.  I am on 30mg.  Is it going to be okay that I switched the generic brand/manufacturer.  I had no choice in order to get the small beads.  I also will start removing 5 beads for 3 weeks; as right now the beads are too difficult to count.  Once I get down to less beads, I will then start to count and x 5% to take off each capsule.  Does anyone know how many beads are in the 30mg Solco duloxetine generic capsules?

 

Thank you.

Mary

[fishinghat]

I don't remember any one mentioning using that brand but will see what I can find out. The switch should not be a problem. Several members have had to do that in order to taper slowly.

[fishinghat]

I am sorry. I couldn't find any info on that brand and its bead count.

[hatecymbalta1]

Yes, it is the bead counting kind. I counted out 3 capsules and got 157, 146, and 150 equals average 151 Times 5% equals 7. I am making 14 days worth with 144 beads-

I just hope the switch from the manufacturer Lupin which holds the big beads (7) to the switch to solco manufacturer will be an easy switch. What do you think. Has anyone complained of this. If so, what should I look for. Thank you.

[gail]

I Marybetter,

Welcome home. A small percentage so complain about this when they change manufacturers. That is because some are 100& duloxetine, others 95% and others 102%. Something like this.

You should not have a problem here since you are reducing. If your capsules were all equal in beads, I would suggest a daily reduction. Like 1-2-4-6 and so on. It makes a smoother transition. It would be too complicated to do with the generic that you have, The farther you go the slower you go.

All up to you, your method is ok. Check the post from Aliyogini. He explained the method with
Using a special balance to have an equal daily reduction.

[AliYogini]

Hi Gail.. I'm a "she". Lol. Ali

[hatecymbalta1]

I wonder why the beads have a different amount in each capsule. So strange.  I took out 7 little beads out of 14 capsules (2 weeks worth).  I averaged that out by the number of 3 capsules (one had 157, 146, and 150 equals average 151 Times 5% equals 7. I am making 14 days worth with 144 beads).  I just took out 7 little beads.  I could not sit there and count out each and every capsule.  It was too time consuming.  I doubt there will be an issue consider the capsules don't have the same amount in them anyways. I don't understand that very much but, that is indeed a fact.  I don't think I am going to start taking them just yet because I am going away to Mexico April 21-29 and I don't want to feel any sort of withdrawal or symptoms while away on vacation in another country.  I think that is the smart thing to do.  I will be ready to start once I return.  

 

I really wonder why the makers of cymbalta/generic duloxetine have not designed smaller capsules for tapering.  It just doesn't make any sense to me that they don't care about people and their well being.  Just absolutely mind boggling.  

 

Also, I first went on anti depressants 17 years ago (Started with Celexa 40mg) for depression, anxiety and mainly panic attacks).  I switched to cymbalta about 3 1/2 years ago.  After reading all this negative information on cymbalta is what finally made me decide to stop an antidepressant.  I am tired of putting something that is so harmful into my body when I am very healthy.  I live an extremely healthy lifestyle - no sugars, no caffeine, vegetables, fruits, protein, green tea, drink lots of water (1 gallon a day), exercise, yoga, walk, meditate, no alcohol, cigs or illicit /illegal drugs -- I'm sober this May 20 years).  I don't take any medications other than this antidepressant.  I have noticed that my blood sugars and cholesterol have changed a bit though since taking duloxetine.  Not excessive but, enough to have to be very cautious with what I eat.  

 

Anyway, I hope that switching from the Lupin manufacturer brand which had the large beads (7 to be exact) vs. the Solco which has estimated range of 146-157 will be a smooth transition.  I am a bit concerned with that.  But I am tapering down so, I don't think there should be much of an effect.  If I notice anything I can add a few beads back into the capsule.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

Thank you.
Mary
 

[AliYogini]

Drug co's are not concerned about your well being. They are concerned about their profits. If it is difficult to get off the drug, maybe more people will stay on it. $$. Tobacco co's are not concerned about people's health, just profits. It's how things are.

[hatecymbalta1]

Ali, that's a downright dirty shame.  I have no problem taking medication if I really need to but they shouldn't be so difficult to come off.  It's absolutely horrific.  I tried to come off 20mg several times without tapering and OMG - it was horrible.  I had flu-like symptoms and don't get me started on my emotional and psychological state.  Just horrible.  I think if enough people come together -- we should go after these pharmacueticals and have class action lawsuits.  This is absolutely outrageous and horrendous behavior on their part.  Also, the lack of knowledge that the doctors have who are prescribing these meds should also be somewhat responsible.  I know they are not God's but they should know all of the side effects, and most importantly the horrible withdrawal of coming off these medications.  Thank you.  Btw, do you have any input on my previous comment about the taper and the transitioning from one generic brand to another.  

 

Thank you.

Mary

[hatecymbalta1]

Another question, what does delayed release mean?  Does that cause any problems when taking out the pellets and counting them and then putting them back in the capsule?  Is "extended release" and "delayed release" different?  I ask because when I was trying to go off duloxetine my doctor switched me to prozac and I got serotonin syndrome.  I don't every want to have to go through that again.  

Thank you.

Mary

[fishinghat]

"I really wonder why the makers of cymbalta/generic duloxetine have not designed smaller capsules for tapering. It just doesn't make any sense to me that they don't care about people and their well being. Just absolutely mind boggling."

Eli Lilley and other makers of Cymbalta deny that there is a significant withdrawal despite the proof otherwise and cautions by the FDA. By the way the FDA allow drugs to contain the medicine as described +/- 10%.

Sounds like you have a good plan Mary.

"I live an extremely healthy lifestyle - no sugars, no caffeine, vegetables, fruits, protein, green tea, drink lots of water (1 gallon a day), exercise, yoga, walk, meditate, no alcohol, cigs or illicit /illegal drugs -- I'm sober this May 20 years)."

I have just as boring a life style as you except I have never had a drink. lol I know take 14 pills a day. Go figure.

[fishinghat]

"I think if enough people come together -- we should go after these pharmacueticals and have class action lawsuits. This is absolutely outrageous and horrendous behavior on their part. Also, the lack of knowledge that the doctors have who are prescribing these meds should also be somewhat responsible. I know they are not God's but they should know all of the side effects, and most importantly the horrible withdrawal of coming off these medications."

There has been many class action suits against Eli Lilley over the years. nearly every one has been won by the pharmaceutical companies. The plantiff has to prove that the withdrawal is from the drug and that it is substantially worse than the manufacturer claims. Unluckily it is easy for the companies to say that these are just a return of the original symptoms and most of the symptoms are not from withdrawal. Some headway has been made to change the drug insert for ssri/snri (including Cymbalta) BUT there has never been a court order to reeducate the drs. And in the drs defense, there is an average of 300 new medical journal articles each week. They simply can't keep up. My old family dr just retired last month. He said he worked everyday from 7 am to 4 PM seeing patients and then from 4 PM answering messages, calling other drs, writing scripts and doing paperwork such as drug preauthorizations. He spent every Saturday reading medical journals. He did this for 35 years. I have had the pleasure of sitting in with him to discuss new journal articles that concerned my particular health conditions, We have become very good friends and I know one thing. I would never be a dr. He also spends around 100 hours a year preparing to testify in workman's comp cases and medical damages cases associated with his clients conditions. A horrible life. Bu the way, at one time I saw his professional liability insurance premium and it was $3,000/mth and no the hospital does not pay that. Nothing is as it seems to someone else.

[fishinghat]

"Also, the lack of knowledge that the doctors have who are prescribing these meds should also be somewhat responsible. I know they are not God's but they should know all of the side effects, and most importantly the horrible withdrawal of coming off these medications."

Remember, the drs are trained on new medicines by the manufacturer. If information is changed with timethe manufacturer has no obligation to retrain the drs.

"Another question, what does delayed release mean? Does that cause any problems when taking out the pellets and counting them and then putting them back in the capsule? Is "extended release" and "delayed release" different? I ask because when I was trying to go off duloxetine my doctor switched me to prozac and I got serotonin syndrome. I don't every want to have to go through that again."

 

No problem putting them back in the capsule, many of our members have done that as well taking the beads directly with plenty of water. The capsule only delays the dissolving of the medicine by 5 to 10 minutes. The beads are coated with a special plastic which controls the rate at which they dissolve. The delayed release dissolve slowly over a few hours. The extended release dissolves slowly over many more hours. (If I remember right). I will check that to be sure and get back to you. The large pellets like Tiva(sp) have a hard shell which slows down dissolution rate to a few hours HOWEVER if you cut those tablets the medicine will dissolve into the digestive tract in as little as 1 hour. Which bounces your blood levels of the medicine up and down like a yoyo and can make your withdrawal worse.
 

[fishinghat]

extended release
In pharmacology, the slow or gradual absorption of a drug after ingestion, e.g., one that achieves a peak concentration in the blood after about 6 hr.

medical Definition of delayed-release
: designed to delay release of a drug in the body (as through the use of enteric coatings) usuallty until it passes through the stomach into the small intestine (At least one hour)

[AliYogini]

I think Fishinghat answered your questions. He really knows his stuff.

[hatecymbalta1]

Yes, thank you Fishinghat.  How do you know the answer to all of these things.  I'm still very nervous to stop taking duloxetine for some reason or another.  I'm also still nervous about taking out the beads and taking them.  I'm so afraid.  I had that serotonin syndrome and I honestly went the hospital 4 times in one week and they all thought i was have panic attacks when in fact i was going through serotonin syndrome.  It could have been fatal.  I'm so afraid of these antidepressant and the more I read the more I get frightened.  

 

I'm also afraid that when I stop my old symptoms of depression and panic attacks will come back.  Such a very difficult decision to make.  I don't want this medication in my body cuz I am so healthy but yet, I'm afraid to stop and even change to a different brand for fear my body will react adverse to it.  I know I sound super hyper vigilant and overly cautious but, I think it's important to ask questions before making decisions.  I wish I had never taken this medication but it does help with keeping panic attacks at bay.  I just don't know.  

 

Thank you for all of your help Fishinghat.  Have you gone through any of this what I'm talking about. 

[fishinghat]

"It could have been fatal. I'm so afraid of these antidepressant and the more I read the more I get frightened."

You are right. They are very scary and if you weren't afraid of them I would worry about you. They recently had a mental health conference in my town. I attended but of course they don't allow the public tom ask questions. My psychologist was there and I had asked her to ask a question for me. "Why do so many psychiatrists put patients on antidepressants right away without first trying hydroxyzine, clonidine,atenolol, buspar and some of the non-addictive therapies. The drs all agree that antidepressants are a popular medicine. In fashion. The majority of patients come in for their first visit and actually request them. If they don't request an antidepressant then it will be a benzo. Popular? OMG!!! One dr even said he has been seen by several people who were about to go through a traumatic event (divorce, death in family, etc) and wanted an antidepressant 'in case' they get depressed. WOW No wonder we have over 30 million American's on ADs.

[fishinghat]

"I'm also afraid that when I stop my old symptoms of depression and panic attacks will come back. Such a very difficult decision to make. I don't want this medication in my body cuz I am so healthy but yet, I'm afraid to stop and even change to a different brand for fear my body will react adverse to it. I know I sound super hyper vigilant and overly cautious but, I think it's important to ask questions before making decisions. I wish I had never taken this medication but it does help with keeping panic attacks at bay. I just don't know."

This is what many research drs call treatment trauma. The side effects, withdrawal and possible damage by drugs often causes as much long term fear and stress as the patient had before taking the meds. Research has showed that if a patient has had a one time trauma (say divorce) then an AD may be effective but should be weaned off within 6 months while simultaneously going to a psychologist. If however the patient is suffering from chronic anxiety/depression from more than one source then an AD may be effective and long-term use is warranted. By the way the number one medicine for panic attacks is clonidine. Usually very effective. Of course like all meds it works for some and not others.

[fishinghat]

"Have you gone through any of this what I'm talking about."

Everything but the Serotonin Syndrome. My drs have been very up front about recognizing Serotonin Syndrome and what to do if the symptoms develop. I had a nervous breakdown in 2002 (yes, I am very old...lol)and have used 6 ssri/snri as well as over a dozen other psych meds. Several trips to the ER thinking life was over or that I had a fatal disease. Paranoia, fear, panic, depression, insecurity, etc etc. Oh what fun we have (he said sarcastically). I have also had 7 psychiatrists (they either work with me or I find a new one). I don't mean he has to follow my approach but he/she needs to be able to meet me half way. Bottom line, it is my health not theirs.

[Baronne]

I wonder why the beads have a different amount in each capsule. So strange.  I took out 7 little beads out of 14 capsules (2 weeks worth).  I averaged that out by the number of 3 capsules (one had 157, 146, and 150 equals average 151 Times 5% equals 7. I am making 14 days worth with 144 beads).  I just took out 7 little beads.  I could not sit there and count out each and every capsule.  It was too time consuming.  I doubt there will be an issue consider the capsules don't have the same amount in them anyways. I don't understand that very much but, that is indeed a fact.  I don't think I am going to start taking them just yet because I am going away to Mexico April 21-29 and I don't want to feel any sort of withdrawal or symptoms while away on vacation in another country.  I think that is the smart thing to do.  I will be ready to start once I return.  

 

I really wonder why the makers of cymbalta/generic duloxetine have not designed smaller capsules for tapering.  It just doesn't make any sense to me that they don't care about people and their well being.  Just absolutely mind boggling.  

 

Also, I first went on anti depressants 17 years ago (Started with Celexa 40mg) for depression, anxiety and mainly panic attacks).  I switched to cymbalta about 3 1/2 years ago.  After reading all this negative information on cymbalta is what finally made me decide to stop an antidepressant.  I am tired of putting something that is so harmful into my body when I am very healthy.  I live an extremely healthy lifestyle - no sugars, no caffeine, vegetables, fruits, protein, green tea, drink lots of water (1 gallon a day), exercise, yoga, walk, meditate, no alcohol, cigs or illicit /illegal drugs -- I'm sober this May 20 years).  I don't take any medications other than this antidepressant.  I have noticed that my blood sugars and cholesterol have changed a bit though since taking duloxetine.  Not excessive but, enough to have to be very cautious with what I eat.  

 

Anyway, I hope that switching from the Lupin manufacturer brand which had the large beads (7 to be exact) vs. the Solco which has estimated range of 146-157 will be a smooth transition.  I am a bit concerned with that.  But I am tapering down so, I don't think there should be much of an effect.  If I notice anything I can add a few beads back into the capsule.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

Thank you.
Mary
 

You cannot remove beads while switching generic brands as it is a recipe for disaster.  That's why your attempt at switching doesn't work.  If you were on 30 mg of the Lupin brand with the large beads, then you need to change over to the other brand with micro beads staying at 30 mg for a minimum of one month and probably more.  Only after that should you start removing beads.  The maximum cut rate is 10% per month and no more.  Don't remove beads every day at it is too rapid a taper and will likely result in withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I am a veteran at this process as I have switched brands successfully more than once.  The key is changing over to whatever dose you were on before and then staying there for weeks or even months before attempting to make a decrease.  AND, don't decrease by more than 10% per month...and that is from the most recent dose...not the original dose.  

[hatecymbalta1]

I have tried changing to the small beads several times without taking out any of the beads.  I will try to use a powder but for now I am going to just increase my dose from 10mg to 15mg to stabilize because I have to work and be functional.  

 

Thank you.