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Scared To Death About Tapering


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#1 twig50

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:16 PM

hi everybody i am a newbee to these forums and am scared to death to start tapering. i read about the horrow stories when people start to taper, especially duloxetine. i am currently on 5 pschiatric medicines, 30mg duloxentin, 150mg seroquel, .75 xanax 60 mg vyvanse and 1 mg of rexulti. i feel pretty good other then being so fatigued. i have been on duloxentin, seroquel and xanax for 6 months, the vyvanse for 1,5 months and rexulti to 2 weeks. i am just worried about the taper procedure like bead counting and using the scale method. my psychiatrist says that i could cold turkey off the xanax because of its low dosage. he has said that he has a couple of thousand people that is has basiclally told to stop taking duloxetine cold turkey with 50% having no side effects and 50% having minimal systoms. I am not cosidering either after reading on these benzo forums of the danger of going cold turkey. i just need some guidance on what to do  


#2 fishinghat

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:33 PM

Welcome Twig

The FDA warns against cold turkey on the Cymbalta. It can cause seizures, suicidal thoughts, etc.

The Xanax will be the easiest to come off of with that small dose. I would start with that as you have bot been on it long. You have already been on it 6 months so I doubt it is doing you much good anyway. I assume you are on 0.25 mg three times a day. Please verify and I will help set you up a weaning program. You should be able to get off it with little to no symptoms.

The Cymbalta is a different story. The medical research is similar to what the dr said. About 20% have little to no symptoms, 60% bad symptoms (6 to 8 months) and 20% terrible symptoms (1-2 years). The bead counting method is the best way but it can be a slow process depending on how sensitive to Cymbalta you are. You need to start by counting the beads inside your capsules. I can set you up with a weaning schedule for that too but I would come off the Xanax first. I certainly would not do both at the same time.

Please feel free to ask any questions and also keep us updated.

#3 twig50

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 02:38 PM

thanks fishing hat for your help and support. i am currenly on xanax at night .75mg along with the 150mg of seroquel. my doctor started me with a 2 mg bar of xanax which i cut in half  and took 1mg for about 5 months. i cut the 1 mg bar and into 4 sections and then cut 2 of those sections to give me .75mg  mind you i am using a pill cutter and this is a guesstimate but it has worked for me so far. i have solco for my brand name for duloxetine.  


#4 fishinghat

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:31 PM

OK Twig.

Good info. The 0.75 mg at night will raise your blood benzos up and then they will fall all the next day until that night when you take 0.75 mg again. The first step is to get your blood levels of the Xanax stable. The easiest way to do that is to dissolve the 0.75 mg of Xanax into a cup (use a measure cup for accuracy) of water. And then take a quarter cup every 6 hours. You will do that for a few days until things are stable and then you can begin tapering. One caution. Benzos do NOT completely dissolve in water and there is always a ;little fine powder in the bottom of the container. Be SURE to shake the container before pouring out your 1/4 cup dose.

For your info 1/4 cup equals 59 ml. Go to a pharmacy and get a small syringe. Needle is not necessary). Each day you will remove 2 ml more from EACH dose. So to put it simply...

Make up is 0.75 mg xanax in 1 cup of water.
Take 1/4 cup every 6 hours. Shake bottle well before measuring out 1/4 cup.
After being on this dose for 3 days start weaning.

1 day - remove 2 ml from each 1/4 cup dose.
2nd day - remove 4 ml from each 1/4 cup dose
3rd day - remove 6 ml from each 1/4 cup dose.
Etc...

You will complete your weaning in 30 days. If at any time you feel as if you are developing symptoms like agitation. restlessness, etc then stay at that dosage until symptoms pass and then start weaning at a slower pass. We will be here to help you through all the way so don 't worry. It will be all right.

Did you count the beads in your Solco brand Cymbalta? They usually have 145 to 160 beads but it depends on dose so you will need to count yours.

#5 fishinghat

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 03:47 PM

The following information is from https://www.drugs.co...teractions.html

Interactions between your drugs
Major
Cymbalta (duloxetine), Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine)

Talk to your doctor before using Duloxetine together with lisdexamfetamine. Duloxetine may increase the effects of lisdexamfetamine. Combining these medications can also increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death.

Major
Cymbalta (duloxetine), Rexulti (brexpiprazole)

Duloxetine may increase the blood levels of brexpiprazolee. This can increase side effects such as drowsiness, seizure, Parkinson-like symptoms, abnormal muscle movements, and low blood pressure. You may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. Contact your doctor if you experience agitation, aggression, confusion, convulsions, muscle spasm, or movements that you can't stop or control such as lip smacking, chewing, puckering, frowning or scowling, tongue thrusting, teeth clenching, jaw twitching, blinking, eye rolling, shaking or jerking of arms and legs, tremor, jitteriness, restlessness, pacing, and foot tapping. Also be alert to symptoms of low blood pressure such as dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, and/or increased pulse or heart rate. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how these medications affect you, and use caution when getting up from a sitting or lying position, especially at the beginning of treatment or after an increase in dose of brexpiprazole.

Each of the five drugs you take can cause fatigue (duloxetine, seroquel, Xanax, vyvanse and rexulti). It is no surprise you are feeling fatigued.


#6 gail

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 07:55 AM

Hi Twig and welcome,

Was the fatigue there before Vyvanse and Rexulti? You say that you feel pretty good except for the fatigue. I looked up Vyvanse and it doesn't seem to cause fatigue.

These meds were given for a reason, I see no reason to eliminate them all, just to see all your old symptoms coming back.

The benzo taper is an easy one. No worry for this, Fishinghat has informed you well. There is another way, it's to change for Valium, they have different dosages so it makes it easier.

Love your name Twig

#7 twig50

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 10:26 AM

hi fishinghat  I am confused on the benzo taper, if I take 2 then 4 then 6 mil an so on I will not anything to drinik in a short period of time. I have a quarter measuring cup and it is certainly small. can you please explain this procedure in a little more detail thanks  twig50


#8 fishinghat

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 11:33 AM

Sure Twig


Each day you will take 0.75 mg xanax and dissolve it in 1 cup of water. That is enough to last you 24 hours.

From this 1 cup make up solution you will take 1/4 cup every 6 hours. Shake bottle well before measuring out 1/4 cup.

Stay on this routine for 3 days before starting to wean.

Once you are ready to wean this daily makeup will remain the same (0.75 mg dissolved in 1 cup water).BUT the amount you take every 6 hours slowly decreases.

Instead of 1/4 cup every six hours it will be 1/4 cup MINUS 2 ml every six hours the first day.
Then 1/4 cup every six hours minus 4 mls the second day
Then 1/4 cup every six hours minus 6 mls the third day,
etc

You will be finished in 30 days.

 

Please do not hesitate to ask any questions.
 


#9 twig50

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:34 PM

thanks for replying fishinghat.  I just got done watching a video on liquid tapering on utube, the young lady used 300ml of water poured it into the jar an dropped her pill into the water filled jar and shook the jar with a lid on it. she then removed 1 ml with a syringe and put the mixture into 3 small jars for her dosage during the day. I am somebody that has to be shown how to do something, so I hope I am not irritating you with these replys.


#10 fishinghat

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:49 PM

Absolutely not. No problem. We are just interested in people getting help here. There is nothing wrong with that method just be sure to shake the jar before dispensing dose. Can you post the link to that video. Others may find it helpful as well.


#11 twig50

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 02:28 PM

thanks fishinghat for all your help, I am computer stupid so I don't know how to post this video. all I can say is go to utube and and put in water tirtration and her name is benzoland and it will take you to her video


#12 twig50

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 02:31 PM

I am sorry her name is benzo brain


#13 fishinghat

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Twig.


#14 fishinghat

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 04:36 PM


#15 twig50

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 12:20 PM

i am going to start my water taper, according to the video posted above. should i use .75 of xanax all the time or should i decrease the dosage gradually. also should i drop by 1,2,3 ect or go 2,4,6 ml what do you think. 


#16 fishinghat

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 01:12 PM

Start with 0.75 mg in 300 ml like she did. Divide it into three 100 ml doses (one dose every 8 hours). Each day remove 2 ml more from each of the 100 ml doses. So...

first day 100 ml 3 times a day.
Second day 98 ml 3 times a day (100-2ml)
Third day 96 ml 3 times a day (100-4ml)
Etc.

This will take you 50 days which should be easy with the low dosage you are on.

#17 twig50

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:02 PM

thanks fishinghat for replying   let me ask you a stupid question, say i wanted to take all 300ml at night before i went to bed is this possible? if it is then how many mil would take out of the 300ml jar. 


#18 fishinghat

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:20 PM

That is a very good question as the Xanax may be helping you sleep. If it was me and 0.75 mg Xanax in 300 ml I would wean in increments of 6 ml a day. So remove 6 mls, then 12 mls , then 18 mls, etc. This still provides a 50 day wean.


#19 twig50

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:57 PM

thanks fishing hat for all your help


#20 fishinghat

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 05:45 PM

Glad to help twig.


#21 twig50

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:14 PM

fishinghat let me ask you another stupid question on water tapering. this is were i get confused. if i go 6,12,18 ect. when i get to 300 i will have nothing to drink. correct me if i am wrong or i am missing something that confuses me about water tapering 


#22 fishinghat

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:32 AM

That is correct. That is the idea is to slowly and evenly come completely off the benzo. When you are down to zero you are finished with the benzo.

 

One thing to note, if you think symptoms are developing with the withdrawal slow down the drop immediately. If you were ever to develop significant symptoms going back up on dose seldom helps. when in doubt pause your taper and slow the drop rate. Like I said though it is unlikely you will have much of a problem at that dose and going that slow. This is not a sprint but an endurance race. Time and patience.


#23 twig50

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:11 PM

i am still confused about the drop, is taking 6mg then 12 then 18 to fast of a drop.   


#24 fishinghat

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

"i am still confused about the drop, is taking 6mg then 12 then 18 to fast of a drop."

Its actually 6 ml a day not 6 mg. You are dissolving your dose (0.75 mg) in 300 ml each day and removing 6 ml more each evening before drinking the rest. That 6 ml drop out of a total of 300 ml is a 2$ drop daily. Most people can handle that pretty well with Xanax. If you are concerned you can do a 3 ml drop each day or even a 2 ml drop each day. The slower you go the easier it is.

#25 twig50

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:14 PM

hi fishinghat  i have been reading one of your threads from cheryl123 named reinstated.. you suggest to her the water titration on i think klonapin, were you tell her to take a 1.5 mg amd dissolve  it in 600 ml of water and take 50 ml and drink it every 6 hours for 3 days. Then you tell her when she makes up a new batch, you tell to remove 6 ml of  the solution and replace it with 6 ml of water. my question to you is would i do this with the xanax, or do the same as recommended by taking out 2 then 4,6,8 etc. i also have a question when i start with the 300mil the first night i dump 2 ml and would drink 298 mil and the next night i would dump 4 mil and drink 296 ml etc. thanks  


#26 fishinghat

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:56 PM

Good point twig.

The Klonopin is much stronger than the Xanax so I suggested 600 ml instead of 300 so the drop will be significantly slower.


"i also have a question when i start with the 300mil the first night i dump 2 ml and would drink 298 mil and the next night i would dump 4 mil and drink 296 ml etc."

That is correct. And anytime during this process feel free to slow the drop if you feel necessary or just pause a few days if you think you need to. The slower the better.

#27 twig50

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 04:30 PM

i forgot to ask about xanax, reading on other benzo websites that xanax does not dissolve in water so i bought a bottle of propylene glycol off amazon to use in dissolve the .75 mil of xanax. Is this the correct method to do. 


#28 fishinghat

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 05:42 PM

Oh that is fine. It does not dissolve in water but the binders do leaving a very fine Xanax powder in the bottom of the bottle. As long as you shake it well you will be OK. The propylene glycol method works better but many find that it causes diarrhea. Quite a few use whole milk, It has a high fat content so MOST of the Xanax dissolves. If you can handle the propylene glycol that is great.

#29 gail

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 07:58 AM

Hi Twig,

Stupid question, how big is a .75 Xanax? I mean, can you cut it into different dosages?

Water titration always seemed complicated for me.

Another method that I used was to switch to Valium, since they have different doses, for me it was easier. They call it the Ashton method. Check this out. So much easier.

#30 fishinghat

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:13 AM

Many do switch to valium (diazepam) and then taper off that. It work well. You are limited in how small a drop you can make at one time by the size of the pill.



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