222 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Yes, this also occurred to me as this point today was when the dose I took when I woke should have been at its height. So taking the extra beads then would be the same as taking a dose of 12/13mg. If I were taking the beads later in the day, it would be pulling the blood level back up to what it was earlier in the day - if that makes sense. 

 

But yes, not maintaining this may be an issue. Really wish we had access to the right answers...

[invalidusername]

Question for you 'hat...

 

Only as I was wondering. Why would you not suggest going back to 20mg, stabalising, and going slower from there?

 

I don't have a problem with the length of time it will take to come off these things anymore, it is just my quality of time and the state of my mental health that I am worried about.

[fishinghat]

Did I recommend going to 20 mg and stabilizing?

[invalidusername]

IUN - "So you are not suggesting I do anything to the dose of Duloxetine? "

FH - No just the citalopram.

 

There were the three choices, and going up on the Citalopram was one of them.

 

Did you mean to go up on the Duloxetine and not the Citalopram? 

 

Easy mistake with all the users and their respective meds! But if this is an option, then I would go for this one...

[fishinghat]

Sorry, when you said go back to 20 mg I assumed you were talking about the Cymbalta.

 

Actually I was talking about going up on the citalopram to see if that would help.

 

These are just options not recommendations. All 3 of these might help but could make things worse too or at least postpone your improvement.

 

The decision is up to you.

[invalidusername]

OK. Well, I fully understand that the ultimate decision is down to me, and that your position is one of advice. But you have been my only source of guidance along this withdrawal journey (of which I cannot thank you enough), and to that end, I value it considerably more than anything I could get out of my immediate medical community, as they simply do not understand how these drugs work.

 

So - from the options, I would be concerned about introducing an alternative AD at the moment as it worries me that I may have similar reactions to those that I have had with others in the past. I at least know where I am with Citalopram. Therefore, upping the 40mg of Citalopram is a route worth considering.

 

The hydroxyzine and clonidine seems good considering their success with others, but again, it is the concern about adding a third (and potentially fourth) into the mix. But I would consider this before changing AD.

 

Therefore, the options are;

 

1) Bringing my Duloxetine back to 20mg, stabalise, and go VERY slow back down

2) Upping the Citalopram to 40mg and hope that this is sufficient to pull me thru the remainder of the withdrawal.

 

All I ask is which you would consider to be the better option - and that option 1 is viable if I am struggling as much as I am.

 

Thanks ever so 'hat. I am convinced that you were meant to be here for me, and that I was guided to you.

[fishinghat]

IUN

Going up on the citalopram may help BUT it seems like you had mentioned that every time you go up on it you have ptoblems. Is that right? And if your current dose isn't working I have concerns about a higher dose working. And even if it works you would just have to come off it later if you want to be AD free.

 

If you are truly patient then going back to 20 and stabilizing and then coming down even slower is the most promising.
You said that taking the extra beads may have helped and that would be roughly 12/13 mg. I would NOT recommend going up to 20. If there is a chance that 12 or 13 mg may be enough then do it. When stable you will not have as far to drop. Remember it takes 4 days for Cymbalta to fully stabilize in the blood.

[invalidusername]

Yes, you are right that I have had problems with Citalopram doing nothing above 20mg. I really should consider that.

 

Then it is a done deal. I'll go up a few beads.

 

I can be patient as long as it takes if my mood stabalises. The mistake was dropping too fast, I know that now. All this from just a few weeks on these pills. It begs belief...

 

Thanks again 'hat.

[fishinghat]

Your very welcome. Hang in there friend.

[invalidusername]

Quick update. I have managed to find a little bit more courage from somewhere and I have stuck with my 10mg for yesterday and today. They have both been what I refer to as "survival" days. I can get on with life, but it is just about tolerable. 

 

My issue now is still the same of stress/anxiety. The smallest task - needing to post a letter, the car low on gas etc causes stressful repercussions. I get little waves of panic. When I realise the task that needs to be done, my head will tell me "that is a big problem - how will you do that?", and I feel compelled to do it immediately before I panic more.

 

I had this once before, but it only lasted half a day or so. This has been going on for some time now. Granted it has been up and down (the worst being at the weekend), but the fact that it is still around is causing anxiety by itself.

 

Can I still be sure this is withdrawal people?

[fishinghat]

Oh, yea. It will be a battle now until you get to zero. Stay at 10 until very comfortable because if you drop too early it just makes things worse.

[invalidusername]

Learnt my lesson about dropping early from the 20 to 10mg. Hoping that now I have been at 10mg for 3 weeks that I can ride it through without any uppage. Scrat will be brave!!

 

Incidentally, for guest and future visitors who find that my symptoms ring true - it is known "officially" as stress-response hyperstimulation, and is not to be confused with General Anxiety Disorder (GAD) - although the two frequently occur together. More, very useful, information can be found at the following address;

 

http://blog.davincil...n-impact-health

[invalidusername]

Update....

 

I had left some information out earlier in the week as I was concerned about the eyes that were watching the forum. 

 

I managed to see a p-doc on Monday. I was in a real state (and still am). After explaining everything in as much detail as I could, the doc told me;

 

1. Stop going on the forum

2. Drop the last 10mg of Duloxetine with immediate effect

3. Take a Z-drug to sleep

 

'Hat and I have discussed the absurdity of the above - my GP agrees. I had to make a complaint through official channels as I just could not see me getting anywhere. I was supposed to have another appointment with a different p-doc today, but it never happened. And I was never told - so was waiting... waiting... getting very anxious. I was later told that he would not see me because I was already under the direction of another p-doc. Miscommunication everywhere.

 

I contacted my doc again to ask about something to help - and whilst he agreed that what 'hat suggested (hydr/clon) may help, he is not licensed to prescribe them.. and that I could only get these drugs from... the p-doc. 

 

Unbelievable.

 

Anxiety is showing no mercy. 

 

If hell exists - I am in it.

[invalidusername]

Dr 'Hat...

 

If I could beg your advice. I have documented my exact symptoms that have now been continuous and are keeping me in this state, and would value your opinion on whether this is withdrawal, a reaction to stress (and not withdrawal), and if I should consider medication?

 

1. I can, for the most part, sleep well. But I will wake and immediately feel exhausted and dizzy

 

2. Then I will have random thoughts (not even stressful) that will trigger what I call a flash of anxiety - the feeling you get when you look over the edge of a tall building, lasting only a second or so.

 

3. I will generally doze as I am still so tired (even after 7-8 hours of sleep), and the thoughts will keep coming. After 20-30 minutes, this "flash" has become permanent. I am tensing my whole body, I get nauseous, and this is when the "actual" nervous thoughts occur about how I will cope with my day, when will these symptoms end, noises outside start affecting me, etc.

 

That is then me set up for the day. Neither the Citalopram nor the Dulox (still 10mg) remove these feelings. I worry this is getting chronic rather than situational of my recent stresses. I can make attempts to distract, but unlike other anxiety that can be temporarily relieved through distraction, this cannot. The "looking over a tall building" feeling is there. Period. It acts as a consistent reminder that I am anxious.

 

As you know, I have next to no help here, so your advice is very much appreciated...

[fishinghat]

"I can make attempts to distract, but unlike other anxiety that can be temporarily relieved through distraction, this cannot."

This is classic for withdrawal. The imbalance in the neurotransmitters make it difficult to alter your state of mind. I would dare say that if you weren't doing Cymbalta and Citalopram you would be a lot worse. Actually that is not to bad for your state of withdrawal. No brain zaps, diarrhea, crying spells, spells of anger, feelings of impending doom etc.

[invalidusername]

Thank you - this makes sense.

 

I know that once the stress is recovered, that the hightened sensitivity will abate, and then I will have the "regular" anxiety to content with.

 

Knowing that corsitol has a part to play in this, would you recommend any medication? Or suggest rest and ride it through?

 

[EDIT] I have had anger outbursts and the odd zap, but I kurb their influence immediately, so they are not bothersome. The last "doom" moment was a week last tuesday, so not bad considering I guess.

[fishinghat]

Not bad at all. You are actually doing well.

I have read a lot of articles that debate the role of cortisol in anxiety/stress/withdrawal but they differ considerable in their conclusions and recommendations. There are a few prescription meds to help control cortisol but at best the results are mixed. Some even suggest that by controlling cortisol you may raise your adrenaline. I have not looked at this closely in a couple years. When I get a chance I will review the recent literature. Good question.

[invalidusername]

Thanks again 'Hat.

 

I'm really not enjoying the thought of more medicine, and am reviewing the alternative options. Very carefully.

 

Currently reading papers about Rhodiola Rosea - hence the question of cortisol. Mix of views and conclusions at present, but unsurprisingly, there are limited unwanted effects. Much like ashwaghanda, there can always be the isolated case, but the most part, if approached sensibly, they can be safe.

[fishinghat]

"...but the most part, if approached sensibly, they can be safe."

Exactly. Do your research and then use caution. I would add to that keep a good journal.

[invalidusername]

So at bit of a u-turn today following 2 better days.

 

I woke having had some very anxious dreams, which may have been enough. Had to go to see a client shortly after I woke and I didn't feel right, but did it anyway. As soon as I was on the road, my anxiety spiked. I wanted to turn around and just go back to bed. Thought I would have some health problem, or I would should at client. I just felt so out of control and I could not cope.

 

Managed 40 minutes with client. Jumped in car, cancelled only other appointment. Back home, popped a valium and spend the last 4 hours in bed drifting in and out. The edge has gone off, but I still feel so very bad. 

 

I am so sick of what this withdrawal has done to me. I have not had anxiety this bad since summer 2017 when I came off the Cital too early - and then back on. 

 

Why on earth is my 30mg of Citaolpram not working?! 

 

Is the withdrawal anxiety THAT bad that it can overpower it? 

[invalidusername]

I think my issue today was that I have been able to overcome the morning anxiety every day this week by facing it head on - as I have learnt to. But today, it just got the better of me. it won and I threw the towel in.

 

I feel failure and inability to cope. Even thou it was one day. I struggle with perfectionism...

[fishinghat]

"Why on earth is my 30mg of Citaolpram not working?!

Is the withdrawal anxiety THAT bad that it can overpower it?"

That is a good question.

"I struggle with perfectionism..."

Oh man can I understand that. That is part of my problems for sure.

[invalidusername]

Quite. A question without an answer unfortunately. 

 

My issue with perfectionism is that I can take slowly moving forward - as long as it is forward. But backwards and I seem to go the whole way!

[invalidusername]

Same as yesterday here. It is last weekend all over again. Anxiety has really got a grip and I've just had enough.

 

I've managed a 10 min walk as I was worried that I would be making things worse unless I can prove I can still get outside and "function".

 

Just SO TIRED of all this anxiety. When it is this bad, facing it just doesn't work - failure ensues and makes the anxiety worse. Then knowing this to be the case also makes it worse. There is just no way out.

 

I know that the withdrawal has done this to me, but it is at the point where it is getting into my head, so I worry that even when the withdrawal has run its course, I will still have this anxiety. I want to be able to cope with it now... but it just won't let me.

 

Any support/suggestions very much welcomed...

 

And to all those in the Commonwealth - let us remember all those who have bravely gone before on our day of Remembrance. God Bless and keep them all.

[fishinghat]

IUN

Going up on the citalopram may help BUT it seems like you had mentioned that every time you go up on it you have ptoblems. Is that right? And if your current dose isn't working I have concerns about a higher dose working. And even if it works you would just have to come off it later if you want to be AD free.
 
If you are truly patient then going back to 20 and stabilizing and then coming down even slower is the most promising.
You said that taking the extra beads may have helped and that would be roughly 12/13 mg. I would NOT recommend going up to 20. If there is a chance that 12 or 13 mg may be enough then do it. When stable you will not have as far to drop. Remember it takes 4 days for Cymbalta to fully stabilize in the blood.

[invalidusername]

This is what I have been considering 'Hat.

 

Am I prepared for a longer and (potentially) easier route, or just rip the band-aid off. 

 

I think from a psychological standpoint I should go for the latter. I have no evidence that the Dulox is not causing this, but I DO have evidence that it does not agree with me. 

 

.....

 

.....

 

...I'm taking the plunge. The countdown to day zero has begun.

[fishinghat]

Prayers and best wishes IUN.

[invalidusername]

Many thanks - will report back daily...

[invalidusername]

3 DAYS TO GO....

 

I am on 40 beads today, down from 48 yesterday, 56 before that, and 60 on Friday.

 

Hanging in there so far, but anxiety is ever present. The mental health team have taken the rest of my balls away, so I have no choice but to see this through. That in itself has made me anxious, but I have spent so many days/weeks trying to decide what to do, maybe this is for the best.

 

Going to report as much as I can as I know how important these days will be for others to read.

[invalidusername]

So an update on today.

 

All was going as well as could be expected until around 6pm. Along came some very bad dizzyness - I had to hold onto things as I was walking around, my concentration went and I couldn't remember what I had said after finishing a sentence. Fatigue accompanied the dizzy as well and a sense of being out of it, derealisation or whatever one might call it.

 

10.30pm and a little better, but at home, in bed, wife next to me, warm and on the forum, so doing what I can to relax.