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2 Failed Tapers. Very Sensitive To Drops. Advice Please.


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#31 invalidusername

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 06:44 PM

IUN - Do you mind if I add that to my library?

 

Not at all, Sir.


#32 Guest_gardenlady_*

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 07:48 PM

Noush, Thanks for responding.  I'm tapering by 2.5% a week, weight-wise, which is approximately 10% per month, the standard recommended taper rate.  I'll have to slow down as I get lower.  My first scale was inaccurate, but I ordered another one and it's better.  

 

My doc gave me a prescription for 10 mg of Prozac which I was going to use to cross taper off of Cymbalta, but I got scared of the huge Cymbalta cuts I'd have to make (10 mg or so at a time) after starting the Prozac and I was afraid I'd get psychotic.  Even the 2.5% drops are hard, so I was terrified of what a huge one would do to me.  As I'm alone, I was afraid I get psychotic and do something I'd regret.  No, I have no one to talk to about this....my family and friends have abandoned me because they can't understand the personality change and are fed up with me for not "getting over it." 

 

I don't know what to do except keep going with this glacial taper pace.  The personality disintegration and depression are incapacitating and it's ruined all of my relationships.  I've also lost my home because of it.  I've become someone whom I don't like at all, negative, critical and bitter.  I'm frightened of myself and ask God to have mercy on me and help me.

 

I hope your cross taper will be successful.  I'll follow your posts to keep up.  I wish you all the best!


#33 Noush

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 01:19 AM

Fishinghat & Invalidusername - thank you so much. You are both obviously very knowlegeable when it comes to these medications. This site is aesome.

I am going to ask my GP about trying Clonidine, as that is exactly what I feel the issue is when I taper. Like my body is suddenly producing too much adrenaline. Like when I didn't sleep for days, yet I hardly felt tired through the day. If I walked up stairs my heart would beat faster & harder & the same would happen after I ate a meal. These symptoms were the same each time. But the propanolol didn't do anything to ease these symptoms really.

It really frustrates me that we approach our Drs with these withdrawal symptoms, they don't just say "ya know what, I don't really know that best way to tackle this. But come back in a few days & I will research it for you & come up with a plan". The last time I went with withdrawal, a locum GP suggested I try counselling to get to the route cause of the anxiety. WTF....my life was great, no anxiety what so ever until I started reducing this sh*t.

Ok rant over 😂 hope everyone has a great day!

#34 invalidusername

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 07:19 AM

Rant away dear Noush.

 

Most people do not understand what withdrawal is all about. If you haven't already seen it, take a look at my recent post about the BBC, there has been a massive uprising about the lack of support regarding withdrawal. People like us should not expect to have to wait to find someone who understands because they have been through it themselves. This is what happened to me with the local mental health team. The workers that I saw up until a couple of weeks ago told me I was fine and that seeing someone to guide me through the process of withdrawal and/or starting a new drug was the job of the doctor (GP). Two seizures later, and subsequent costs to the NHS and they start listening.... Too little too late, you B***ARDS!! 

 

Great to have you here - keep us posted as you go.


#35 fishinghat

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 08:45 AM

Gardenlady

"I've become someone whom I don't like at all, negative, critical and bitter. I'm frightened of myself and ask God to have mercy on me and help me."

Actually you are still the same person. This is just the withdrawal that is temporarily having its way.


#36 Noush

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 12:46 PM

I will definitely keep this post updated as I go. Oh Invalidusername, believe me, I know all about how uninformed our NHS Mental Health teams work. I had to absolutely fight for my life to get help when I was suffering from PND & anxiety. I was passed between GP to Health visitor back to GP for two years. That's two years of my son's life that I didn't enjoy the way I should have. How are you doing now?

Garden Lady

You are reducing at the maximum rate recommended. Could you hold for a month to give your brain & body a rest & stabilise & then maybe only reduce by 1.5% a time?

#37 invalidusername

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:17 PM

Ah Noush - you are here in the UK with me?! Wonderful.

 

I cannot say I am surprised at what you say, but I thought it might be my area that was particularly bad. This is all so very wrong. I have also been on at them repeatedly to see someone. Calling once or twice a week since August when the Dulox went haywire. I was registered for a follow-up appointment in May.... but I knew they wouldn't get there. Six weeks at the most they promise. Pah.....

 

They finally got in touch last week - when I am right in the thick of it. I told them about this forum, to which their response was of shock. You shouldn't be using the Internet, you can't get the information like that...

 

...believe me when I tell you I ripped them a new one. Words along the lines of, what the f*** did you expect me to do when you wouldn't help me? The doctor told me I might have colitis, and fishinghat had my runs cleared up in 3 days. People like those here are the best bloody help we can ever hope for... :)

 

Gardenlady - I really wish I had the words for you. Please remain with us at the forum. We are all with you. Just keep firing off questions and updates... as long as it takes. 


#38 Noush

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 01:01 AM

IVUN I certainly am in the UK, in sunny Yorkshire 😂

I have just been reading your post & background. So you were cross tapering from Citalopram to Dulox with adverse effects and are now cross tapering back to Citalopram? Gosh, no wonder you've had a bad time of it.

Was the Citalopram not working for you? And bless you going through all of this whilst supporting your wife.

#39 invalidusername

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 07:20 AM

Morning Noush...

 

What a lovely part of the country you live in. I had relatives there once, right close to the moors. I used to visit and stay in a caravan in their garden and eat mushy peas! Not quite the same south of London I can tell you.

 

Yes - I was Citalopram, then Duloxetine and now almost back to Citalopram. Before switching, the Citalopram seemed to be maxed out with its help. i have been "suffering" since last August, and whilst things have improved, I just seemed stuck at a point of not getting any better. Needless to say, the switch back and forth has not done me any favours. 

 

Thank you for kind words about my wife. i cannot say too much here, but she had a VERY tough early life of abuse and abandonment. I cannot blame her for how she is following recent traumas we have both faced.


#40 juli

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 10:31 AM

Until I met you two, I had no idea that the mental health system in the UK was so difficult to manage.  It is no shock that all of these online support groups have grown so popular.  People helping people is such a beautiful thing.  Cymbalta - not so beautiful  :angry:

 

There is a light at the end of the tunnel.  Hang in there.


#41 invalidusername

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 11:01 AM

It is sickening Juli. Biggest killer of men in the UK under 45... suicide. The NHS blame the government for funding, the government blame immigration... but it is us, the poor suffering public that get the sh*tty end of it all.   I cannot stand our system here. I want to bang my head against the wall just writing this....

 

Your empathy is very kindly acknowledged received... thank you Juli.


#42 juli

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:51 PM

I hope things turn around soon :hug:


#43 Flower

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 12:38 PM

Good Evening Noush and of course everyone else

 

Invalidusername and myself are here in the uk. Like you trying to get off this Wonder drug. Although I wouldn't change the fact it made me better, I'm very sad that even going private to see a psychiatrist hasn't helped me. This site is the only people I trust and gave me the advice to bead count.

When I joined this group I was down to 30mg Cymbalta and in a mess due to bad GP advice. I'm now 31 beads down (reducing only 1 per day) some days I only get a fuzzy head so stop for a day and continue. I know it will get harder as time goes on but these guys will help along the way.

 

 


#44 Noush

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 12:48 PM

Hi Flower.

I'm only down by 12 beads from 40mg. I was down 18, but started with insomina & some anxiety/low mood & didn't sleep for days. So upped my dose by 6 beads. I was dropping 1 bead a week. I have fully stabalised now & am going to start bead counting again in a week. I'm considering cross tapering after Xmas to see if that helps with the withdrawal & then wean off that after a few/6 months.

How long have you been on Cymbalta?

#45 Flower

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 01:22 PM

I went up to 90mg 5 years ago for depression and came down to 30mg with hardly a problem within the first year. My first try of coming off was after 1 year and it wasn't nice. My psychiatrist said my depression had come back so I was told go back on 30mg. (now know this was withdrawal)

 

I was scared to ever try again so stayed with it for another 4 years.

 

A few months ago I decided to try again but through my GP due to my Psychiatrist retiring.  Big mistake going to GP although she's lovely, she told me to reduce taking 30mg from 24 hours a day to 36 hours and this actually went well for 4 months. Then I was to take it 1 every 48 hours, this went well for a week but then the shit hit the fan and I was a complete mess. I'm married with 2 children and a wonderful family around me but I was having all the withdrawals and the worst was Suicidal thoughts, something I have never had.. I had to move into my mum and dads for 6 days as we don't have private medical anymore and I just wanted to curl up and die.. Thank god I moved in with my parents and my mum sat with me for 2 full days and made sure I ate, even just a mouth full..   

So I ended up making a appointment with a new Psychiatrist and having to go up to 60mg for a week to get me on track again..  finally I found this forum and took the advice from Fishinghat and started my bead count..   although at the time I felt alone and thought I was going out of my mind I cant thank this forum enough.

 

I worked out it took 6 weeks of inpatient therapy to get me on this drug and £45.000 private medical money.. 5 years of my life.. So if it takes me 1 year to come of this with free advice, something doesn't add up with our NHS or even private Therapy..

 

So that's my story 

What about you?


#46 Noush

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:06 PM

I was put on Duloxetine 5 & half years ago for Postnatal Depression after trying a few others that didn't agree with me. I was on 60mg for about 6 months & then dropped down to 40mg no problems. Then since have tried to wean down twice & failed miserably. I have a 7 year old son & an amazingly supportive husband, who reminds me every day that there's no rush to get off them. But I don't want to stay on them just because it's hard to get off, if you know what I mean. I have put almost 3 stone on since taking them & my memory is rubbish compared to what it used to be.

I may start to wean a bead a week again until January (if I can tolerate that) & then see my GP about cross tapering.

#47 invalidusername

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:23 PM

Flower.... it is good to know there is a fellow brit who has gone thru the rigmarole of the NHS. Most medical practioners are simply medicine dispensing machines. So, the fact that we find more help online in places like this comes of no surprise. When I approached my GP when I wanted to come off Dulox, he said down to 30, then 20, and then stop. I refused and mentioned bead counted and he had no idea what I was on about. He knew there were lots of little balls inside each of these little bastards, but they just don't know the lengths people go to when trying to stop. If we walked in having started to quite cocaine, they would be all over it...!!

 

Noush - so glad you have the aid of a family behind you. The cognitive issues associated with these pills concern me. Very much. I need my brain! I do think cross-tapering is you way forward. Nothing will be as hard as Cym to come off. 


#48 Noush

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:46 PM

IVUN - I'm just concerned that if I cross taper to something that doesn't agree with me/that is too stimulating etc, it could make matters even worse.

I tried Citalopram before Dulox & that completely stopped me from sleeping for days. It has been suggested that I cross taper to Escitalopram. Which is closely related to Citalopram. But I guess if I don't try it, I'll never know.

#49 invalidusername

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:07 PM

Apologies - I forgot your previous issues with Cit. Head has been all over the place for the last few days. 

 

Yes, Escit may well be a better option, but you are right. We can never know until it is tried. I'm sure if more research was put into the neurological make-up of individuals, we would have a better idea of what would and would not be tolerated. The fact that "trying" another drug can take a good 4-6 months of our lives puts people off knowing that you can go all the way back to square one each time...


#50 Noush

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 12:43 AM

Follow on from my post in Axles thread.

So again, I went to bed last night feeling really relaxed, after a lovely afternoon/evening with family. Could barely keep my eyes open I was so tired. Fell to sleep instantly. Woke again a 2am (it's 2am every night) with slightly raise heart rate. Managed to get back to sleep after probably an hour. Then woke again at 4.45 (same time every morning) with my heart pounding like I am having an adrenaline rush. I don't feel stressed, anxious, just wide awake & pounding heart. Then I have needed to go to the toilet (sorry if it's too much info),but it's like this causes my bowel to be in overdrive too).

I ate healthy yesterday, no caffeine, chocolate etc. I have had this each time I have tried to wean off C, but as I said before, I am currently on my full dose of 40mg. I reinstated about 8 weeks ago and within a week of reinstating, I was sleeping great & feeling good. Now this for the past week from nowhere & I've not changed my dose at all.

Could this be the C just not agreeing with me anymore?

#51 invalidusername

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:59 AM

Certainly sounds like adrenaline - but as to why it is occurring I don't know. It could well be the C doing it, but odd behaviour having reinstated.

 

I remember having the same thing when I went off and back on my Citalopram Summer last year. I was anxious on and off during the day, but at night the same thing would happen about an hour after I went to sleep. I would wake and my heart was pounding. If I went to the bathroom it would also kick in if it hadn't already.

 

It did eventually pass, but at the time I put it all down to anxiety.


#52 Noush

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:01 PM

Well here I am, wide awake after only 3 hours sleep, with my heart pounding again, unable to sleep, even though I am exhausted! My sister kindly counted the number of beads in a capsule out of my current pack for me which was 354 beads. Before I reinstated, I had dropped down to 358 beads!!! My capsules at the time had between 370 & 380 beads in. Therefore, it seems that I've probably done a 5% drop in beads pretty much over night! Bingo! Looks like I have found the reason for the racing heart & insomnia again. Yo-yoing up & down in beads. So I'm going to bead count my capsules to 375 to see if that resolves matters.

#53 invalidusername

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 08:53 AM

I would say this could indeed have an effect on what is happening. Will be interested to hear the results of this little experiment. For your own sake, I sincerely hope it improves things for you.


#54 fishinghat

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:01 AM

Noush

When you can't go back to sleep have you ever tried sublingual melatonin?

#55 gail

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:18 AM

I did a magic trick and made all the November posts disappear!

#56 Noush

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:51 AM

No I haven't Hat. It's this pounding heart beat that is keeping me awake. I don't have anything on my mind or anything that I am anxious about. Would the Sublingual Melatonin help with this?

#57 Noush

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 09:56 AM

Gail, I don't understand? What have you made disappear? My posts from November? 🙈😂

#58 fishinghat

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:06 AM

Melatonin is produced by your body in the evening to help us calm and go to sleep. Many people take melatonin to help get a sleep at night nut in many it causes a drained yucky feeling for a while in the morning. Sublingual (Means - under the tongue) is a form of melatonin that can be placed under the tongue and will enter the blood stream rapidly allowing you to get back to sleep fairly quickly. Because it enters the blood stream rapidly it does not stay in the body as long does not produce that yucky feeling in the morning. It may not be enough to get to get you a full 8 hours sleep but it usually allows you to get an additional 2 to 3 hours sleep which can really help. So, when you sleep 3 hours like that you take the sublingual melatonin and go back to sleep for another 2 to 3 hours.

In the thread Summary of Cymbalta Withdrawal (Medical Support section) is a post called "how to sleep better" and it gives a lot of tips on improving sleep.

Are you taking a benzo like valium or Xanax?

#59 Noush

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:17 AM

No nothing. I take 40mg Cymbalta & that is all. I was prescribed 10mg Propanolol if I need it, but have taken 10mg before bed the last 2 nights & it has not helped at all. I don't think I have ever used it & noticed any improvement.

Do you think it could be the 20no bead difference in the capsules that is causing this? As I am super super sensitive to these dose fluctuations.

I have read about something called Kindled. Where the more you have failed taper attempts, the more your body becomes super sensitive to these changes. Have you heard of this?

#60 gail

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 11:41 AM

My mistake, sorry



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