328 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Hotty Botty, cup of tea and Jools Holland's Hooootananny!

[Noush]

Same here! Loved Donald Trump 😂🤣😂 kicking the New Year Off by climbing Pen-y-ghant.

[PrincessNutella]

Mmmm this doesn't correlate to the adrenaline bursts I keep having then, as I haven't removed the Cymbalta yet. I have been getting the pounding heart beat after eating meals & literally slowly walking up stairs. This has nothing to do with my fitness, as I easily did an hour of trampolining today without getting out if breath & this seemed to calm the pounding heart after a short time. Puzzled???

That was me before the week-long panic attack. Is there any instance where Cymbalta stops working? Certainly seems like it.

[fishinghat]

Cymbalta does poop out. That is possible and when it does you will have withdrawal type symptoms. Unluckily no way to be sure. Definitely adrenaline though I agree.

Happy New Year to all!!

 

 

[invalidusername]

Same here! Loved Donald Trump kicking the New Year Off by climbing Pen-y-ghant.

 

That Hot 8 Brass Band had me jumping around!!

 

I just love Yorkshire. Might join you and shout somewhere deep in the heather... "Heathcliiiiiiiiffeeeeeeee"

[invalidusername]

Happy New Year Hat and my lovely Oz...

[Noush]

Ozgun - Did Cymbalta stop working for you? If so after how long? Did you have these adrenaline surges?

Fish - Today has been a really good day, without any anxiety. Slept well last night. So we will see how tomorrow pans out.

[PrincessNutella]

I happen to think it did?

I was prescribed 30 mg's of C in February '17 and after one month, it was magical.
I struggled with the general behavior of academics and was very depressed from April '18 to October '18, panic attacks happening increasingly throughout, so adrenaline surges? Then the week-long panic attack. It was kind of Cymbalta losing control of both serotonin and norepinephrine and me trying to adapt in those conditions and failing.

[PrincessNutella]

Happy New Year Hat and my lovely Oz...

Happy New Years to you too, IUN

I forgot to mention I had next to none panic attacks from March 17' to about April-May 18'.

[fishinghat]

Very strange Ozgun. Very strange. I would trust your instincts about the Cymbalta losing its effectiveness.

[invalidusername]

So Noush - how did this morning go? 

 

Any of your surges? How was your sleep?

 

I had 9 hours straight last night!!

[Noush]

So went to bed around 1am, got up with my alarm at 6.30am & felt good. No anxiety. Half an hour later, after walking up stairs my heart rate was up & pounding for a couple if minutes and then settled. I then went with my husband, Son, sister's & their partners & climbed a mountain in the Yorkshire Dales. It was a 6 mile hike, with a fair bit of scrambling & I didn't have a single surge or pounding heart (apart from the normal amount due to the cardio). So I'm still confused as to what's going on.

Wow, 9 hours solid! That's amazing. How are you feeling today?

[invalidusername]

Well done on doing your hike - that is quite a significant achievement. I'm proud of you Noush!

 

Reminds me of my days when I was training in Llanberis. Long time ago now, when I was younger and fitter, but we used to do the horseshoe scramble over the three peaks. The nicest part is the approach to Snowdon's peak where a ridge affords a spectacular view north/south over the surrounding countryside;

 

https://www.walkupsn...p-carousel-7636

 

I think your surge is simply misdirected brain activity. The smallest things can set such activity off often without us knowing the real cause. The truth is that pharma's don't fully understand what their drug does - except that in 33% of cases, it helps people with their mental health. There are so many things that they do that aren't known and not intended. 

 

I'm not too bad today considering. Had a dream about the friend I lost a few days ago. She and I were so close, and very affectionate in a platonic way; the dream paid homage to that very part of our relationship, so I am feeling some pain as a result. Back to work tomorrow, so naturally anxiety is having a pop at me!

[Noush]

IUN Snowdon is definitely on my list! Just looked at your link. Looks beautiful! We really do have some stunning countryside over here. There's nothing better for the soul than being outside in nature!

Well I'm a strong believer that spirit can visit you whilst you sleep & give messages. Maybe your dream was meant to be a comforting gift from your dear friend. Have you had a good old cry over her passing yet? Crying really does help release emotional pain & built up tension.

What do you do for a job?

[invalidusername]

Agree - Snowdonia is beautiful. The other slides from that link show some lovely shots - especially of the lakes. There is also the famous stones of "adam and eve" at tryfan on the walk. People are encouraged to jump from one to the other, but there is a drop on the south side - around 600ft if I remember - so you don't want to slip! 

 

https://www.grough.c...ve-1024x682.jpg

 

It takes a lot for me to bring on the waterworks, but I did have a cry the first couple of days for my friend. I am sure I hold too much inside - in fact I know I do. Work wise I am a private music tutor - self employed.

[PrincessNutella]

I think your surge is simply misdirected brain activity. The smallest things can set such activity off often without us knowing the real cause. The truth is that pharma's don't fully understand what their drug does - except that in 33% of cases, it helps people with their mental health. There are so many things that they do that aren't known and not intended.

I'll be damned if this is not me right now. I'll be choking for air and I'll calm myself down, but the next moment something insignificant happens, I'm having a panic attack.

And the dream thing is related to your subconscious, you have to let it out somehow.

[invalidusername]

I agree it is subconscious Oz. You are absolutely correct.

 

My adrenaline doesn't come up so much when I am not expecting it, but when I do something that potentially has stress attached to it, off it goes. And because I am working on a baseline of existing adrenaline courtesy of the Cymbalta withdrawal, just a small amount will be enough to bring on anxiety and shakes - but trying my best to just let it happen.

[fishinghat]

I remember weeks and weeks of the littlest movement and my heart would start pounding, race, skip beats. If I would lay down long enough it would subside. even some little thing like getting up to get a drink. It finally faded with time.

[Noush]

That must be a nice job to have IUN. Teaching something that you love to others. Don't let the anxiety set in. See it as a positive. You're getting back into your routine. No matter how you feel, you will pull your ass out of the house & go do your job. Then when you get home, you'll feel so much better for just having done that.

With me, the adrenaline rush or pounding heart isn't brought on by a situation or an anxious feeling. It just happens either in the middle of the night upon waking or when I slowly walk up stairs or maybe walk for a minute or too. I don't get out of breath or feel shaky. It's just a racing pounding heart. If it happens through the night, it stops me from sleeping, then a night or too of not sleeping triggers the anxiety & then a few days of the two together then causes low mood. The actual thought if having to go through Cymbalta withdrawal fills me with anxiety, dread & fear. But as my symptoms seem to be improving, I am not in a rush to start the taper until my GP agrees to do things my way.

[Noush]

Fishinhat - that is exactly what I have been getting! It does seem to be improving. If I have gone up & down 20 beads (reinstated 6 wks ago back up 20 beads, then back down 3 weeks later due to low bead count in the pack) do you think it could be withdrawal type of upset causing it? I started counting my beads 6 days ago to make sure each capsule now has 380 beads & things seem to be settling.

[fishinghat]

Definitely a sign of withdrawal. It is called a chronic adrenergic state. A good description of it in Summary of Cymbalta Withdrawal. The long term stress causes a constant state of excess adrenaline. Not fun but not deadly either. It will pass.

[Noush]

But I've not been in a state of stress Hat. I've not been stressed about anything. This is what confuses me. And I only dropped 20 beads, then went back up 20 beads to stop withdrawal & then went back down to god knows what unintentionally??? 🤔

[invalidusername]

Thanks Noush...

 

I have just sent you a PM with detail of work!!

 

What you have said is exactly the path that mine takes. You get some physical symptoms, but you don't let it bother you. If they linger too long, then they will breed anxiety. Then the anxiety - again if it hands around too long - will bring the depression. For me, stress starts this ball rolling.

 

A couple of hours ago, I started taking my friends PC apart to diagnose an issue with it. No sooner had I started, I thought "this has the potential for stress... stress.. yes, I have that coming tomorrow cos I'm going to need to work" and there it is. 

 

It feels like I have a reserve of around 50% adrenaline more than I should, and the slightest thing to add a small amount will trigger me. Then I get shaky, stomach churning.. the usual.

 

Hat... does this fit the bill for the chronic adrenergic state?

[invalidusername]

The wife then informed me that we were very low on milk, so I started worrying, but just got my ass out all the same to the grocery store. 1km there, 1km back, and about 5 minutes getting food - but my anxiety level didn't change at all in those 25 mins or so. All that is bothering me (I say "all"!!) is the stress of my condition not letting me improve. It won't let me stabalise as I was 8 weeks ago.

[Noush]

When you say that your anxiety level didn't change in those 25 minutes. On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being horrific) where are you today? How are you feeling now that you are back home?

[invalidusername]

It fluctuates throughout the day. First part of the day was around 3, but it then got to around a 5. It was a 5 all through the 25 minutes. 

 

But just now I was cutting up some veg for the dinner and it peaked to around an 8. Just had an overwhelming sense of stress that told me "life is too much for you". But knowing there is no escaping, it hits me. No idea where it came from, but I'm guessing the build up of the anxiety from today worrying about work.

[fishinghat]

Fishinhat - that is exactly what I have been getting! It does seem to be improving. If I have gone up & down 20 beads (reinstated 6 wks ago back up 20 beads, then back down 3 weeks later due to low bead count in the pack) do you think it could be withdrawal type of upset causing it? I started counting my beads 6 days ago to make sure each capsule now has 380 beads & things seem to be settling.

It is the only thing that makes sense Noush. Something has set this off. If you have been on a stabile dose for 6 days that should help but is it higher or lower dose than before the bead count changed? Probably hard to say exactly.

[fishinghat]

"What you have said is exactly the path that mine takes. You get some physical symptoms, but you don't let it bother you. If they linger too long, then they will breed anxiety. Then the anxiety - again if it hands around too long - will bring the depression. For me, stress starts this ball rolling.

"A couple of hours ago, I started taking my friends PC apart to diagnose an issue with it. No sooner had I started, I thought "this has the potential for stress... stress.. yes, I have that coming tomorrow cos I'm going to need to work" and there it is.

It feels like I have a reserve of around 50% adrenaline more than I should, and the slightest thing to add a small amount will trigger me. Then I get shaky, stomach churning.. the usual.

Hat... does this fit the bill for the chronic adrenergic state?"

Mostly yes. One has to remember that dopamine is partly changed to norepinephrine which is partly changed to adrenaline. So the chronic adrenergic state puts you in high adrenaline levels. Anxiety, heart issues, etc. Once your body begins to remember how to adapt it will kick in and decrease the adrenaline. This causes dopamine to rise (less being converted to norepinephrine and therefore less adrenaline). The high dopamine causes the depression. That is why many drs use the expression of anxiety and depression are opposite sides of the same coin.

This is a good sign believe it or not. In the early severe stages of withdrawal most just have severe anxiety but as time goes by the body begins to recover and starts getting more efficient in controlling the anxiety. Unluckily at first it swings back and forth too much (this is where you are at) but with time it will begin to stabilize.

[invalidusername]

Hat.... I think I am getting it.

 

With the Pregabalin doing its thing to reduce my anxiety levels, this in turn pushed my depression through the roof - and I didn't really have much in the way of nervous issues all last week. 

 

Now the flow of Pregab has stopped, and today has been the first day that I have not felt the depression, the brain is trying to find balance again, but in so-doing is overdoing the adrenaline??

[invalidusername]

This is EXACTLY what annoys me about the MH team. They do not think.

 

I am in withdrawal, and my brain is trying to balance itself. They put me on something that biases my mood one way, then stops that drug, thereby putting my progress back having confused my brain further right in the middle of it trying to make sense of it all.

 

Sorry to rant - and to hijack your post (Noush), but I really like to make sense of this all. It helps me significantly.